A5 - Derry Dual Carraigeway

L1011 · 03-01-2011 2:41pm

The M2 was never intended to end up like that, though. That was the late 80s patchwork fix to the mess left by the 70s withdrawal of funds.

As it stands, because the M23 was canned and Derry traffic still takes the A6, the Ballymena BP is *still* over-specced.

Redsoxfan · 05-01-2011 12:35am

Anyone know who's behind the 'No New Road' signs planted along the A5?

L1011 · 05-01-2011 12:45am

Suspect its local community action possibly assisted by one of the Unionist parties.

You get community or astroturf protests in lots of places, there's "motorway madness" and "no motorway through our village" signs in one of the little villages on the N20 that coincidentally appears to only have one, completely passing trade related, employer...

charlemont · 05-01-2011 12:55am

Redsoxfan wrote: »

Anyone know who's behind the 'No New Road' signs planted along the A5?

Certain Loyalists would be sick to the stomach at the thought of a motorway/dual carriageway connecting Derry to Dublin especially as it will go through mainly Nationalist areas..Its like this, Derry is now the only city on the island not connected to Dublin by motorway/dual carrigeway and its also the only city not to have a rail connection direct to Dublin, so the A5 should go ahead, the government here promised the money and it should deliver it, This road will be great for the North West and thats another reason that some Loyalists will be against it, they will see it as a threat..

JupiterKid · 05-01-2011 3:37am

charlemont wrote: »

Certain Loyalists would be sick to the stomach at the thought of a motorway/dual carriageway connecting Derry to Dublin especially as it will go through mainly Nationalist areas..Its like this, Derry is now the only city on the island not connected to Dublin by motorway/dual carrigeway and its also the only city not to have a rail connection direct to Dublin, so the A5 should go ahead, the government here promised the money and it should deliver it, This road will be great for the North West and thats another reason that some Loyalists will be against it, they will see it as a threat..

But do you have any evidence for this view?

Derry isn't connected to any other urban area by DC or motorway at all.

In terms of traffic volumes, it is arguable that the A6 from the end of the M2 to Derry is upgraded first.

charlemont · 05-01-2011 3:45am

JupiterKid wrote: »

But do you have any evidence for this view? Derry isn't connected to any other urban area by DC or motorway at all.

In terms of traffic volumes, it is arguable that the A6 from the end of the M2 to Derry is upgraded first.

Where did I say Derry was connected to another urban area by DC or motorway ...
What evidence do I need for my view....its not court we're in...
Its common knowledge above that some hard-line loyalists dont want the road built....

L1011 · 05-01-2011 8:50pm

A little of the A6 dualling is to start this year it seems, it seems. DC from the M22 to Toome and then DC from Toome to west of Castledawson.

The NIRS takes things sloooowly as the timeline of the A26 dualling shows.

Glenshane is a serious hassle for dualling the whole A6 and I suspect that some traffic would actually use the A5->A4->M1 if the A5 dualling was completed first. A4 is now dual to Ballygawley.

Amtmann · 14-01-2011 2:06am

Welcome for public hearings into plans for Dublin-Derry road

OPPONENTS OF plans for a new road between Dublin and Derry have welcomed a decision by the Oireachtas transport committee to hold public hearings next month.

The proposed route would be Ireland’s longest new road, replacing much of the N2 in the Republic and the A5 in Northern Ireland. It would be part-financed by €500 million which the Government agreed to provide under the 2006 St Andrews Agreement.

The Oireachtas hearings were requested by Joe Costello TD, Labour’s transport spokesman, after he met a coalition of anti-motorway and pro-heritage groups from both sides of the Border in Leinster House this week.

Mr Costello told the delegation that Labour would draft a new national development plan if it entered government and every current infrastructure project would be reviewed, “no matter what stage of planning it is at”.

While refusing to be drawn on the N2-A5 given divided views on it in his own party, Mr Costello said the €500 million commitment would be the single biggest drawdown on transport spending in the coming years.

Public consultation is under way on three sections of the route – the Slane bypass, the Monaghan bypass and the A5 in the North – which are being opposed by Save Newgrange, Don’t Bypass the Bypass and the Alternative A5 Alliance respectively. “No cost-benefit analysis has been performed on the proposed road and traffic numbers do not justify building a new road rather than upgrading the existing one,” said Lynne Smyth of the Alternative A5 Alliance.

John Dunbar, the group’s chairman, said Sinn Féin and DUP Ministers, as well as those from the Ulster Unionist Party and the SDLP, along with Taoiseach Brian Cowen, “have been saying quite matter of factly that the A5 is a ‘done deal’ and that is that”.

He said Mr Costello’s comments that any new administration in the Republic “would need to look again at taking a half a billion out of the Southern economy at a time of a national economic emergency puts paid to that notion”.

Save Newgrange spokesman Vincent Salafia said leading archaeologists had made submissions to An Bord Pleanála against the Slane bypass route, arguing that it would be too close to Brú na Bóinne. He said the obvious solution to traffic problems in Slane would be to ban trucks, as agreed by Meath County Council in 2009, which would force them to use the M1.

Noel Murphy of the Don’t Bypass the Bypass campaign said Economic and Social Research Institute transport economist Dr Edgar Morgenroth had characterised the proposal to build a motorway east of the new Monaghan bypass as “total overkill”.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0114/1224287488918.html

Ren2k7 · 14-01-2011 4:57am

If it wasn't for Labours decidedly lacklustre appetite for road construction then I would be more inclined to vote for them. I'm unaware of any concrete (no pun intended) infrastructure proposals from Gilmore and Co. I despise Fianna Fail but at least they left us some top roads. I'm highly doubtful Labour would have delivered what FF did.

Noel Murphy of the Don’t Bypass the Bypass campaign said Economic and Social Research Institute transport economist Dr Edgar Morgenroth had characterised the proposal to build a motorway east of the new Monaghan bypass as “total overkill”.

Excuse my ignorance (I haven't been following N2 related action) but are there plans for a motorway or is this just scare mongering from anti-everything groups?

L1011 · 14-01-2011 9:50am

There's no firm plans for anything. We intend to build a DC to connect to the A5 DC at Aughnacloy/Emyvale, in theory it could be motorway, standard DC or 2+2.

They've now started building stuff on the Monaghan 'bypass', which justifies not even trying to re-use it.

citycentre · 18-01-2011 11:05pm

Northern Ireland's Department of Regional Development has announced it's spending plans for the coming years:

http://www.drdni.gov.uk/index/publications/publications-details.htm?docid=6734

Basically the A5 and A8 (Larne) projects (those involving cross border funding) are being prioritized with ALL other road projects being pushed back to 2015 at earliest. This suggests that the funding from the Irish Government is secure.

Setanta_og · 19-01-2011 6:09pm

This is very positive news for the island.

marmurr1916 · 21-01-2011 7:32pm

Brian Cowen has reaffirmed the Irish government's commitment to give €480 million towards NI roads, including the A5 project:

Taoiseach Brian Cowen has reaffirmed the Government's commitment to provide €480 million in funding to upgrade roads in Northern Ireland.

Mr Cowen made his pledge at today's 11th plenary meeting of the North-South Ministerial Council, which was held at the council's new offices in Armagh City.

...

The issue of roads improvement recently triggered controversy when Dublin Central TD Joe Costello warned that a new Government involving Labour may not be able to afford helping finance road upgrades linking the Border with Donegal and improving access to Larne harbour in Co Antrim.

"The Irish Government remains fully committed to the A5 and A8 (roads) project," said Mr Cowen. "We see this as a project of mutual benefit, opening up the northwest of the country for us. It involves a €480 million commitment and I am glad and proud to say that this Government, despite its difficulties, has not in any way compromised that commitment.

"It is a huge project for opening up access to the northwest, both to Derry and Donegal, and areas which have in the past seen less development than otherwise would have been the case because of their geographical location," he added.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/0121/breaking52.html

Can't see that promise being worth much, unless the money is transferred before the general election...

Amtmann · 21-01-2011 7:34pm

I understand the strategic reasons for upgrading the A5 and I'm all in favour of it. But the UK is much bigger and richer than we are. How much are they contributing?

nordydan · 21-01-2011 7:41pm

Tremelo wrote: »

I understand the strategic reasons for upgrading the A5 and I'm all in favour of it. But the UK is much bigger and richer than we are. How much are they contributing?

From here:

http://www.wesleyjohnston.com/roads/a5omaghstrabane.html

The ROI is contributing 47%, and Stormont is paying the rest.

mk6705 · 22-01-2011 1:05pm

Alternative A5 Alliance, Don't Bypass the Bypass and Save Newgrange? Sounds like three band names.

overshoot · 30-01-2011 6:07pm

anyone notice that the alternative a5 alliance is based in belfast? i always feel the need to question people's motives when the road will not directly affect them.
the road is needed, it links the biggest and 4th biggest cities on the island. in monaghan i think though it should be linked to the m1 at ardee,the 20km or less build would cost a lot less than building a 50km stretch from ardee to ashbourne where slane would be the only other town of note served by it. all the environmental hastle is going to come out of that area too.
i would like to see how the new road runs through lifford/strabane, im sure it running west of strabane/omagh was a ROI term for funding as it benefits donegal. it could be quite tricky though with landowners even though it is the current route of the a5. anyone got a link to it

oharach · 30-01-2011 11:18pm

I was fine with this until I realised that it meant literally EVERY other piece of planned infrastructure in NI except the A8 Larne dualling (also ROI co-funded) was going to be cancelled.

I was particularly looking forward to the Lurgan-Knockmore works to improve the speed of the Enterprise. If you read the DRD report, they suggest that if funds are forthcoming, it might be one of the first projects to be reinstated however.

It may be a road between the 1st and 4th cities, but what is more important is the AADT, which is pretty low all things considered, because of the long distance to Dublin, the historically long journey times, and the much closer economic and political connection to Belfast. In that regard, it's not really comparable to the M7, say, which links a similar size city to Dublin.

dubhthach · 31-01-2011 9:05am

is the A5 been proposed as Motorway spec or as 2+2?

Son of Stupido · 31-01-2011 12:57pm

HQDC - i.e. could be reclassified as motorway if all junctions were grade seperated. Most will be.

nordydan · 31-01-2011 2:12pm

Son of Stupido wrote: »

HQDC - i.e. could be reclassified as motorway if all junctions were grade seperated. Most will be.

I am not so sure about that, the road may be grade separated but there are two large roundabouts - at Strabane & Ballygawley - and no hard shoulders (just a 1m hard strip).

oharach · 31-01-2011 11:07pm

nordydan wrote: »

I am not so sure about that, the road may be grade separated but there are two large roundabouts - at Strabane & Ballygawley - and no hard shoulders (just a 1m hard strip).

It is possible (but rare) to have roundabouts under motorway restrictions, e.g. M12/M1 junction between Lurgan and Portadown. You're right about the hard strips though.

Some of the junctions look a bit dodgy for UK motorway classification, but would probably suffice on ROI standards, given recent practice.

Chris_5339762 · 31-01-2011 11:42pm

I'm guessing this is closer to 2+2 than it is to motorway.

Sponge Bob · 01-02-2011 11:14am

I think the UK allows 70mph on certain dual carriageways. I understand the mechanism is to apply the Special Roads Act / Highways Acts which create a "Special Road" short of full motorway designation.

The only question is whether these acts apply to Northern Ireland.

dubhthach · 01-02-2011 11:55am

Wesley Johnston has added a strip map of the A5 scheme on his roads website (great site!). There will be a total of 5 at grade roundabouts along the route.

http://www.wesleyjohnston.com/roads/a5omaghstrabane.html

oharach · 01-02-2011 12:58pm

Sponge Bob wrote: »

The only question is whether these acts apply to Northern Ireland.

Nope, see section 345(3) of the same Act.

But see here
I can't find the legislative basis for this however.

overshoot · 04-02-2011 12:35am

oharach wrote: »

Some of the junctions look a bit dodgy for UK motorway classification, but would probably suffice on ROI standards, given recent practice.

ROI is actually suprisingly strict on it being min 2 lanes + hard shoulder and proper off ramps for each junction. the reason some dual carrigeways were upgraded lately is because they were designed to motorway standard just put through planning as a dual carrigeways before being reclassed. for some reason it takes a lot less paperwork/impact studies

mackerski · 04-02-2011 2:49am

Sponge Bob wrote: »

I think the UK allows 70mph on certain dual carriageways.

It's broader than that - 70mph is the default speed limit on dual carriageways...

Sponge Bob wrote: »

I understand the mechanism is to apply the Special Roads Act / Highways Acts which create a "Special Road" short of full motorway designation.

Nope, no need for that, they just need to not impose a lower limit. The entire new A4 scheme, for instance, from Dungannon to Ballygawley is under a default speed limit of 70mph.

Sponge Bob wrote: »

The only question is whether these acts apply to Northern Ireland.

Yes.

oharach · 04-02-2011 5:02pm

mackerski wrote: »

Yes.

No.

The Highways Act 1980 cited by Sponge Bob does not apply to NI. I already said this and cited the appropriate section. Here is the link.

The general speed limit is 70, but not on the basis of the Highways Act.

munchkin_utd · 10-05-2011 7:11am

A5 Public Inquiry begins in the North today
May 09 2011

A public enquiry into the planned A5 Western Corridor is beginning today in the North.

The A5 is the Northern part of the controversial plans to upgrade the N2 from Clontibret to Aughnacloy in Monaghan.

The first leg of the enquiry takes place in Omagh today, where Overarching Strategic Issues will be discussed.

The proposed road will then be broken up into three sections - and examined on three separate occasions in the coming weeks.

Its thought the results of this enquiry could have an impact on the progress of works on the Southern part of the project.

http://northernsound.ie/news-details.php?nid=6667

it'll be interesting to see if the enquiry puts a spanner in the works.

A5 - Derry Dual Carraigeway

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