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Send in the Clowns - BAC 10K Challenge

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Comments

  • #1562
    Krusty_Clown
    Registered Users Posts: 19,495 ✭✭✭✭Krusty_Clown


    Recovery? Sure that just makes you soft. :)
    It's the Hal Higdon Advanced 10k program and yes, the tempo is the day before the intervals. I followed it before. It's not a pleasant experience. The tempo isn't that hard, I just complain a lot. It's only 40 minutes, and you build up to near 10k pace, so it's not like a marathon tempo, where you spend 40+ minutes at tempo pace.


  • #1563
    mithril
    Registered Users Posts: 970 ✭✭✭mithril


    Krusty_Clown wrote: »
    Recovery? Sure that just makes you soft. :)
    I looked at that as well -2 tough days back to back and the rest of the week seems pretty soft. Did not make sense to me.

    Training is all about injuring yourself in a controlled way, and when the injury heals you are stronger than before.
    If you are tired, you can't run your key session hard enough to create enough trauma to your body that will generate the right type of adaption.

    I am also doing 2 key speed sessions, tempo and interval but am trying to space them as far apart as I can. Intervals mid-week and tempo at the week-end.


  • #1564
    shels4ever
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,598 ✭✭✭shels4ever


    mithril wrote: »
    I looked at that as well -2 tough days back to back and the rest of the week seems pretty soft. Did not make sense to me.

    Training is all about injuring yourself in a controlled way, and when the injury heals you are stronger than before.
    If you are tired, you can't run your key session hard enough to create enough trauma to your body that will generate the right type of adaption.

    I am also doing 2 key speed sessions, tempo and interval but am trying to space them as far apart as I can. Intervals mid-week and tempo at the week-end.

    I'd agree with you on that, had a question on this before and I think the reason for this is that after one hard session its 2 days before the DOMS kicks in . This is the approach that is taken in this type of plan, its not something that would work for me .


  • #1565
    Abhainn
    Registered Users Posts: 2,236 ✭✭✭Abhainn


    I agree with the lads on the back to back especially in the weeks 5 & 7. Definately go for an easy day in between those.

    I'm starting to introduce more speedwork meself now:(.
    What kind of recovery time will you be planning between the intervals?

    Oh KC well done on that great pacing job recently.


  • #1566
    Krusty_Clown
    Registered Users Posts: 19,495 ✭✭✭✭Krusty_Clown


    Injuring yourself in a controlled way.... I like that!

    I'm not so sure about the delayed DOMS being the argument for having these back to back. I don't think anyone would describe a 40 minute tempo as one of the hard sessions (10k in 41-43 minutes would generally be closer to an aerobic session). I think it's more akin to P&Ds recovery run with strides the day before an interval session. Admittedly it's a little harder than that, but I think the motives are the same: prepare you for some hard running the following day.

    If you can't run a 40 minute tempo comfortably, where you don't even reach 10k pace, what hope have you of completing the weekend session, which includes a couple of miles at 10k pace?

    My plan is to have a harder session a few days later (Friday evening), of hill climbs, and continue to have a long'ish run on the weekend (10-12 miles). I'm just using this as a template.


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  • #1567
    Krusty_Clown
    Registered Users Posts: 19,495 ✭✭✭✭Krusty_Clown


    The last time I did these sessions Abhainn, I wasn't used to running at mile pace (urgh!), and didn't give my self enough recovery time, so the later intervals suffered. So this time I'll start generous, and over subsequent weeks pull it back if I can. Interval target should be around 75 seconds (famous last words!).
    So I'll start with a 75 seconds easy jog between intervals (100%), and bring it down to 60 etc in future.


  • #1568
    smmoore79
    Registered Users Posts: 2,346 ✭✭✭smmoore79


    Krusty_Clown wrote: »
    The last time I did these sessions Abhainn, I wasn't used to running at mile pace (urgh!), and didn't give my self enough recovery time, so the later intervals suffered. So this time I'll start generous, and over subsequent weeks pull it back if I can. Interval target should be around 75 seconds (famous last words!).
    So I'll start with a 75 seconds easy jog between intervals (100%), and bring it down to 60 etc in future.


    Just did that 10km advanced plan from Jan to April. Have to say that by far, the speed sessions were the toughest. Used to dread them!! From 6 by 400 at the start to 11 x 400 at the end of the program i was in pain. Great feeling of relief and achievement after them though...


  • #1569
    Krusty_Clown
    Registered Users Posts: 19,495 ✭✭✭✭Krusty_Clown


    Today: 7 x 400m @ mile pace
    Ugh. What's worse than a 10k tempo training run? 10k intervals. I don't think I'm built for this short stuff. By the time you're properly warmed up - you're going home. Taste of blood in the mouth, lungs in agony, quads burning, and heart racing through my chest, I still couldn't hit the numbers I wanted, but they weren't off by more than a few seconds, so I won't get too despondent on my first return to real speed-work of the year. I did find that if I started off slower and built up speed more gradually, I would finish better. Still ended up rushing off on an 8th interval. I have to keep count one of these days.

    Splits: 77, 79, 77, 76, 77, 77, 77

    Summary: 6 miles in 41 mins, @6:53/mile, HR=149.


  • #1570
    Sosa
    Registered Users Posts: 3,209 ✭✭✭Sosa


    Krusty_Clown wrote: »
    Today: 7 x 400m @ mile pace
    Ugh. What's worse than a 10k tempo training run? 10k intervals. I don't think I'm built for this short stuff. By the time you're properly warmed up - you're going home. Taste of blood in the mouth, lungs in agony, quads burning, and heart racing through my chest, I still couldn't hit the numbers I wanted, but they weren't off by more than a few seconds, so I won't get too despondent on my first return to real speed-work of the year. I did find that if I started off slower and built up speed more gradually, I would finish better. Still ended up rushing off on an 8th interval. I have to keep count one of these days.

    Splits: 77, 79, 77, 76, 77, 77, 77

    Summary: 6 miles in 41 mins, @6:53/mile, HR=149.

    You see now,thats my sort of training...love the short fast stuff.

    Q - were the intervals part of the 6m or seperate ?


  • #1571
    Krusty_Clown
    Registered Users Posts: 19,495 ✭✭✭✭Krusty_Clown


    Sosa wrote: »
    You see now,thats my sort of training...love the short fast stuff.

    Q - were the intervals part of the 6m or seperate ?
    Part of it. 2.5 mile warm-up, and half a mile to finish up (to get home as quickly as possible!).


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  • #1572
    tisnotover
    Registered Users Posts: 1,659 ✭✭✭tisnotover


    Krusty_Clown wrote: »
    Today: 7 x 400m @ mile pace
    Ugh. What's worse than a 10k tempo training run? 10k intervals. I don't think I'm built for this short stuff. By the time you're properly warmed up - you're going home. Taste of blood in the mouth, lungs in agony, quads burning, and heart racing through my chest, I still couldn't hit the numbers I wanted, but they weren't off by more than a few seconds, so I won't get too despondent on my first return to real speed-work of the year. I did find that if I started off slower and built up speed more gradually, I would finish better. Still ended up rushing off on an 8th interval. I have to keep count one of these days.

    Splits: 77, 79, 77, 76, 77, 77, 77

    Summary: 6 miles in 41 mins, @6:53/mile, HR=149.

    Good stuff there with 400's, hurt like hell I'd say!

    Hope to start into something like that 10k plan, once this marathon stint is over!


  • #1573
    Krusty_Clown
    Registered Users Posts: 19,495 ✭✭✭✭Krusty_Clown


    tisnotover wrote: »
    Good stuff there with 400's, hurt like hell I'd say!

    Hope to start into something like that 10k plan, once this marathon stint is over!
    Cheers. It's only a means to an end. I don't really have a plan to race a 10k, so it's just to pick up the speed before the next marathon program, and also get myself ready for the biggest race of the year, the Wicklow Way Relay! Easy run tomorrow (if any) then some hills on Friday.


  • #1574
    Krusty_Clown
    Registered Users Posts: 19,495 ✭✭✭✭Krusty_Clown


    Yesterday: 4 mile easy recovery run
    Haven't uploaded it, as yesterday was a no TV day in the krusty household (interrupted by the occasional sneaky-peeks at the Brive 24 hour standings on my mobile phone!), but I hooked up with the other half for a bit, then picked up the pace for another bit, and finished in around 32 mins for 8/min mile.

    Looking forward to my first ever bit of hill training this evening (normally I just run up them and down them without any intent). Planning on doing around 2 or 3 (probably two!) climbs of a nearby hill (around 200m climb). Not sure if this is a good strategy, but sure we'll see how it goes.

    Planning a hike on Sunday, with the intent of checking out the mountainous sections of the 1/2 marathon plod, which I've signed up for.


  • #1575
    Krusty_Clown
    Registered Users Posts: 19,495 ✭✭✭✭Krusty_Clown


    Today: First ever hill repeat session, and I have to say I really enjoyed it. One of my local hills is 1km long, and a climb of around 105m, so it seemed pretty suitable for a bit of a slog. The first one hurt a little, the next one a little less, and the last one felt like more, but first time out, I decided I'd better not overdo it. I jogged back down the hill after each climb, so was well recovered by the time I started the next one. The aim of the session was to build a bit of strength in the muscles, and get over my 'slow to a walk' weakness on multiple hill climbs. I'll add an additional climb every week in future. No nice views (or at least I was too fecked to notice them) but a good slog. I feel like I deserve my curry and beer. :)

    Summary: 6 miles in 50 mins, @8min/mile, HR=148


  • #1576
    Sosa
    Registered Users Posts: 3,209 ✭✭✭Sosa


    Have you decided if your pacing Cork or not ?


  • #1577
    Krusty_Clown
    Registered Users Posts: 19,495 ✭✭✭✭Krusty_Clown


    Sosa wrote: »
    Have you decided if your pacing Cork or not ?
    Would love to do it Sosa (really want to run Cork marathon), but I reckon it's just one marathon too many, this year. I want to run to the best of my ability in the Wicklow Way Relay the following week, and being the first runner of 8, the pressure is on not to screw up, so a marathon the week before (even if not at a brisk pace) wouldn't be the greatest of ideas. So I'll stick with my plan of 10k training, hill-work and hopefully some trail races over the next few weeks, so I won't get to see your sub-3 first-hand. Would've enjoyed the celebratory pints afterwards!


  • #1578
    Sosa
    Registered Users Posts: 3,209 ✭✭✭Sosa


    Krusty_Clown wrote: »
    Would've enjoyed the celebratory pints afterwards!

    Its all about the pints....:D

    They will taste that bit better....


  • #1579
    Krusty_Clown
    Registered Users Posts: 19,495 ✭✭✭✭Krusty_Clown


    Today: 12 Mile Aerobic run
    Body was fine after yesterday's hills, so set off without any particular route in mind, and ended up doing a pretty familiar, but quite pleasant run, taking in Tully Church, and Kilbogget. I had a couple of fast miles, and even managed a 100m sprint on the cinder track. A friend of mine and I have a long standing wager about who would be faster over 100m. I have never really run on a track, or done any sprinting, and he's a terrier footballer (not a runner), so my money would be on him. I didn't time it, but I reckon it was under 20 seconds, which ain't bad after 9 miles.

    A day off tomorrow (though I might head out for a sneaky 4 mile recovery run), then hiking the IMRA Half marathon plod route in the afternoon.

    Summary: 12 miles in 1:24 @6:57, HR=145


  • #1580
    BeepBeep67
    Registered Users Posts: 8,079 ✭✭✭BeepBeep67


    Krusty_Clown wrote: »
    Today: 7 x 400m @ mile pace
    Ugh. What's worse than a 10k tempo training run? 10k intervals. I don't think I'm built for this short stuff. By the time you're properly warmed up - you're going home. Taste of blood in the mouth, lungs in agony, quads burning, and heart racing through my chest, I still couldn't hit the numbers I wanted, but they weren't off by more than a few seconds, so I won't get too despondent on my first return to real speed-work of the year. I did find that if I started off slower and built up speed more gradually, I would finish better. Still ended up rushing off on an 8th interval. I have to keep count one of these days.

    Splits: 77, 79, 77, 76, 77, 77, 77

    Summary: 6 miles in 41 mins, @6:53/mile, HR=149.

    They look pretty handy and consistent, what time are you aiming for in the 10k.


  • #1581
    Krusty_Clown
    Registered Users Posts: 19,495 ✭✭✭✭Krusty_Clown


    BeepBeep67 wrote: »
    They look pretty handy and consistent, what time are you aiming for in the 10k.
    What 10k? I'm training for a mountain relay, mountain half marathon, and marathon. No time for a 10k. I'm just doing the training. :)


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  • #1582
    BeepBeep67
    Registered Users Posts: 8,079 ✭✭✭BeepBeep67


    Krusty_Clown wrote: »
    What 10k? I'm training for a mountain relay, mountain half marathon, and marathon. No time for a 10k. I'm just doing the training. :)

    LOL - I don't believe a word!
    The Kilruddery Mid Summer's Eve 10k might be a good compromise, but if you have that 10k training in the legs the Dunshaughlin 10k might be an opportunity to nail a PB.


  • #1583
    Krusty_Clown
    Registered Users Posts: 19,495 ✭✭✭✭Krusty_Clown


    No, really! I have no 10k race in mind. I might run one towards the end of training, but it'll only be for the craic (to try and duck into 36:xx territory), but the training is genuinely to prepare myself for the next marathon bout. If the training serves no other purpose, it has confirmed that marathons are my thing, and I don't really enjoy the shorter stuff. It's great to score a PB at any distance, but I'm just not built for the shorter stuff, and I'd rather stick with what I enjoy.

    I like the idea (history) of the Dunshaughlin 10k, but 7:30pm of a Saturday? Sure that's drinkin' time. :)


  • #1584
    Krusty_Clown
    Registered Users Posts: 19,495 ✭✭✭✭Krusty_Clown


    Today: 3 Mile recovery run in 24 mins, @7:36/mile, HR=145

    Today later: 12 mile hike over the IMRA half marathon plod route with a few friends. It's going to be tough! Lots of uphill, but it's a cracking route. Looking forward to it already.
    Summary: 12 miles in 4:17.


  • #1585
    anfearruaaris
    Registered Users Posts: 42 ✭anfearruaaris


    To Krusty and all who read his wise words, we in Dunshaughlin would be delighted to have you part of our race on June 26th, a quick click on http://www.dunshaughlinac.com/10k.asp will get you there. Only €12 online and you'll get a 'hang sang-witch' or two to get you ready for pints afterwards!


  • #1586
    Krusty_Clown
    Registered Users Posts: 19,495 ✭✭✭✭Krusty_Clown


    anfearruaaris wrote: »
    To Krusty and all who read his wise words, we in Dunshaughlin would be delighted to have you part of our race on June 26th, a quick click on http://www.dunshaughlinac.com/10k.asp will get you there. Only €12 online and you'll get a 'hang sang-witch' or two to get you ready for pints afterwards!
    Now that's just shameless advertising! Does the €12 include a taxi back to the Wicklow side of Dublin after the pints? :D


  • #1587
    anfearruaaris
    Registered Users Posts: 42 ✭anfearruaaris


    There may be a hint of ash in the air that evening and as a result the rank may not be in operation.. but we would be capable of pointing you in the general direction of the Wickla' hills :rolleyes:


  • #1588
    Krusty_Clown
    Registered Users Posts: 19,495 ✭✭✭✭Krusty_Clown


    Tonight: 6 mile Tempo lickle Hill Run
    A little too much adrenaline and anger from a tough day in work, and the best remedy seemed to be a bit of a hill climb in the rain. By the time I hit the top of the hill, the adrenaline was well and truly gone, and only the anger remained. :mad: A couple of quick miles home, and tomorrow's intervals might be a little tougher than they should be (must go home angry).

    Summary: 6 miles in 41 mins, @6:50/mile, HR=150


  • #1589
    mithril
    Registered Users Posts: 970 ✭✭✭mithril


    Krusty_Clown wrote: »
    Tonight: 6 mile Tempo lickle Hill Run
    A little too much adrenaline and anger from a tough day in work, and the best remedy seemed to be a bit of a hill climb in the rain. By the time I hit the top of the hill, the adrenaline was well and truly gone, and only the anger remained. :mad: A couple of quick miles home, and tomorrow's intervals might be a little tougher than they should be (must go home angry).

    Summary: 6 miles in 41 mins, @6:50/mile, HR=150
    3 hour marathon pace uphill in the rain. You are in pretty good shape if you can manage this.


  • #1590
    Krusty_Clown
    Registered Users Posts: 19,495 ✭✭✭✭Krusty_Clown


    mithril wrote: »
    3 hour marathon pace uphill in the rain. You are in pretty good shape if you can manage this.
    Thanks, but what goes up, must come down so it all averages out in the end... and it was rage that fueled my pace, which I'm unlikely to have in the very well organized start of the Berlin marathon!


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  • #1591
    eliwallach
    Registered Users Posts: 1,395 ✭✭✭eliwallach


    Krusty_Clown wrote: »
    and it was rage that fueled my pace, which I'm unlikely to have in the very well organized start of the Berlin marathon!

    If you like Krusty, I can sneak up behind you at the start in Berlin and "lay you out" (as we used to say) with a thump to the back of the head. I'll make good my escape before you realise what's happening.
    That should set you up nicely with all the rage & anger you'll need to carry you 26.2 miles. :rolleyes:


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