Whiplash

e_e · 26-01-2015 8:45pm

Blisterman wrote: »

I don't think the ending was as triumphant as people make out. Sure he's become an excellent musician, but at what cost? He's alienated any friends, thrown away his relationship in his single minded pursuit, to become a perfect jazz drummer.
Trying to achieve perfection will never make you happy. Look at what happened to the previous student who was Fletcher's protege. So I think the ending, as thrilling as it is, leaves on quite an ambiguous note.

All in all, amazing film.

Which is also why the love interest was an important part of the story and not tacked on at all.

Burky126 · 26-01-2015 10:12pm

This film is my favourite for the Oscars this year,despite loving Birdman a lot.
Though there are some interesting similarities.

- Both use drums a lot in their soundtrack

-Both feature protagonists who strive to escape mediocrity

- Both are triggered by mental/emotional drives

Though the main common factor in each is the ego and its capabilities for destruction.

Pierce_1991 · 26-01-2015 11:17pm

Burky126 wrote: »

This film is my favourite for the Oscars this year,despite loving Birdman a lot.
Though there are some interesting similarities.

- Both use drums a lot in their soundtrack

-Both feature protagonists who strive to escape mediocrity

- Both are triggered by mental/emotional drives

Though the main common factor in each is the ego and its capabilities for destruction.

They also both feature some bloody good performances!

Skittlebrau · 27-01-2015 8:56am

Saw this on the weekend. Absolutely loved it.

Disclaimer - I am a drummer.

Thought the drumming was actually portrayed very well in a film (which makes a change). He clearly can drum, even if some parts weren't exactly spot on with the soundtrack.

Thought JK Simmons was incredible. Really want to check out some more of his work now, I think the only thing I've seen him in is the Spiderman films.

That and Birdman are the two best films I've seen in the cinema in a long time.

Blisterman · 27-01-2015 9:01am

e_e wrote: »

Which is also why the love interest was an important part of the story and not tacked on at all.

I also think the dinner scene with the family, which a few people here have complained about, is important because

it shows a contrast between the insular world of the music academy, and the wider world, which to be honest, in 2015 doesn't really care much about jazz, let alone jazz drummers. So the stakes aren't so much fame and fortune as they are in many music films, than about achieving the respect of Fletcher.

Greyjoy · 27-01-2015 12:11pm

adox wrote: »

My reading of the end was:
Despite both spending the entire film fighting with each other and both effectively destroying each others careers,through pure fluke in what was a revenge act, both reached their ultimate goal in a perfect symmetry of timing.They were both there in that perfect moment with the perfect music that transcended all that had gone on before. That moment was the only important thing, the only thing, an unattainable plateau that both had arrived at.

That's exactly how I read it as well.

The purpose of Fletcher hiring Andrew for the jazz concert wasn't to push him to greatness. It was an act of petty revenge by Fletcher intended to ruin Andrew's chances of a career as a drummer in front of a wider audience. The moment where Fletcher starts guiding Andrew in the drum solo is the first time we see him act as a genuine teacher instead of an abusive bully.

expectationlost · 28-01-2015 3:42am

some of it was on the nose, it was still great

do you think he hid the msuci book earlier because he knew the first guy was never going to be good enough

Honey Monster · 28-01-2015 3:57am

I think the ending is open to interpretation as opposed to there being an ending where fletcher was or wasn't an asshole or where he was teaching Andrew all along or trying to just humiliate him. I've seen the film several times and to me there isn't a conclusive ending as regards fletchers motives.

I'm on my phone, can't spoiler.

MagicMarker · 28-01-2015 2:06pm

Honey Monster wrote: »

I'm on my phone, can't spoiler.

On my phone... can't spoiler... spoilers anyway.

Is a little cop on too much to ask?

DoYouEvenLift · 28-01-2015 2:29pm

Apparently on his phone he can't type in those simple [brackets], even though you can on every smart phone ever

Doris300 · 29-01-2015 1:45am

I was awestruck by this movie. Think it definitely deserves the Oscar for best picture even though I enjoyed the other nominees. The tension in this movie :eek:

Honey Monster · 29-01-2015 2:33am

Jesus lads apologies for not spoilering, I don't know how to on the touch site. To be fair if you haven't seen the movie you probably shouldn't be reading the thread.

Pierce_1991 · 29-01-2015 4:47am

Doris300 wrote: »

I was awestruck by this movie. Think it definitely deserves the Oscar for best picture even though I enjoyed the other nominees. The tension in this movie :eek:

There's rarely been an occasion down the years that I've wanted a movie to win the Best picture oscar so badly but unfortunately Boyhood seems to have it wrapped up. Nothing against Boyhood but Whiplash was the best film I've seen in the cinema in a couple of years at least.

mrskinner · 03-02-2015 3:05pm

What cinema is now showing Whiplash, please?

Pierce_1991 · 03-02-2015 3:10pm

mrskinner wrote: »

What cinema is now showing Whiplash, please?

http://www.imdb.com/showtimes/title/tt2582802/2015-02-03?ref_=tt_wbr_sh

Good few cinemas in Dublin still showing it.

FlyingIrishMan · 03-02-2015 3:11pm

mrskinner wrote: »

What cinema is now showing Whiplash, please?

I know most/all odeon cinemas are showing it anyway.

The Black Oil · 08-02-2015 1:12pm

This is somewhat of an assault of on the senses. Camera positions, lips on the brass, the light on the conductor's arm in those brief pauses before he commences. There's literally blood, sweat and tears. More on that later.

Fletcher (J.K. Simmons) is a hard taskmaster, unflinchingly unPC and boot camp like instructor, in your face. It's his code, or else. Eye contact with this man is feared by most. Neiman (Teller) is the young, unconfident (initially) first year musician. He reminded me of an early John Carter in ER - talented, yet green. In that sense, perhaps Fletcher is Peter Benton.

On the more problematic end,

something happens which builds to a Dramatic Moment, which diminish the film's quality, pushing it into more clichéd territory. Though given the film's title, one could expect a car crash of some description.

There's a shift and the humour takes a more backseat role. One might say the rhythm (ahem) changes. This is might be somewhat forgiveable when we get the final performance with fade to black being right on cue, but I mostly preferred the first half.

catallus · 10-02-2015 10:04pm

I really liked this, it tells a really compelling story of infatuation and dedication and the ending is just superb.

I'd nearly pay to see the final act again

Mantis Toboggan · 11-02-2015 7:26pm

Very intense film, good but not enjoyable if you know what I mean.

Nervous Wreck · 11-02-2015 7:55pm

Blisterman wrote: »

I don't think the ending was as triumphant as people make out. Sure he's become an excellent musician, but at what cost? He's alienated any friends, thrown away his relationship in his single minded pursuit, to become a perfect jazz drummer.
Trying to achieve perfection will never make you happy. Look at what happened to the previous student who was Fletcher's protege. So I think the ending, as thrilling as it is, leaves on quite an ambiguous note.

All in all, amazing film.

Disagree.

Andrew was shown from very early on to not really care about anything but drumming. For him, it wasn't any sort of sacrifice. To say that he threw anything away or missed out on anything in his pursuit is to presuppose that any of those things were ever actually important to him in the first place. They weren't. He cared about one thing and he achieved greatness in it.

bren2001 · 12-02-2015 12:33pm

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

Disagree.
Andrew was shown from very early on to not really care about anything but drumming. For him, it wasn't any sort of sacrifice. To say that he threw anything away or missed out on anything in his pursuit is to presuppose that any of those things were ever actually important to him in the first place. They weren't. He cared about one thing and he achieved greatness in it.

But Andrew does care about these things. He asked her on a date and then ended it because she would hold him back. When he gets asked by Fletch to perform again he calls her. If she didn't have a boyfriend and went, when he gets screwed over on stage, it is most likely he would have left with her meaning yes, she would have held him back.

Just because all he cared about was becoming the best Jazz musician doesnt mean he didn't have to sacrifice love and friendships for it.

Well that is the meaning I gave to the ending really.

e_e · 15-02-2015 11:17pm

https://twitter.com/daraobriain/status/566977987003023360
https://twitter.com/daraobriain/status/566978343837655040
https://twitter.com/daraobriain/status/566978545004851202
https://twitter.com/daraobriain/status/566979006269251585

SouthTippBass · 16-02-2015 4:26am

We're included in Weird Als tour btw, currently his final date. Although NZ and Australia still have to be added.

He plays Vicar st. in October.

pixelburp · 22-02-2015 4:19pm

Belated thoughts:
An exhausting experience by all accounts, in a good way. Through the beautiful sounds of jazz I found myself trapped watching this tragic story of two self-destructive individuals enabling each other in their quest to ruin themselves and those around them. JK Simmons stole the show of course with this big, boisterous performance, but I found Miles Teller's own to be equally affecting; his slow descent into a destructive obsession, collapsing relationships at every turn, both tragic and utterly compelling at the same time.

And while praise for the performances is well due, I don't think enough has been said about the look of the film: the energy and intensity of the musical performances was chaotic, absorbing and wonderful. The palette itself was gorgeous to look at, drenched with golds and brass, as if the screen itself was itself an instrument like the trumpets and trombones in the band. Lovely stuff, even if at the end I found myself needing to take a breath.

Wailin · 23-02-2015 5:10pm

Dear Lord. An enjoyable film with good acting from the two leads. Looking over this thread makes me cringe though with the amount of words such as 'masterpiece','exhilarating', etc been thrown about. One Flew Over The Cuckoos Nest, Schindlers List, Raging Bull........all masterpieces. Whiplash? Erm, nope. Seems like a lot of people jumping on the hype bandwagon to me.

pixelburp · 23-02-2015 5:22pm

Wailin wrote: »

Dear Lord. An enjoyable film with good acting from the two leads. Looking over this thread makes me cringe though with the amount of words such as 'masterpiece','exhilarating', etc been thrown about. One Flew Over The Cuckoos Nest, Schindlers List, Raging Bull........all masterpieces. Whiplash? Erm, nope. Seems like a lot of people jumping on the hype bandwagon to me.

Or! Maybe instead of passively dismissing those who did enjoy the movie as hype-addled drones, the friendlier approach might be to explain what it is you think separates this film from those you personally consider masterpieces?

I found the film a whirlwind of energy, channeling the intensity & bloody-minded action of a hyped jazz band and the drummer particularly; so yeah, 'exhilarating' is about right. It was a heck of a rush and found it more a one than most blockbusters that ostensibly try to thrill an audience with 'action'.

Goldstein · 23-02-2015 9:23pm

Wailin wrote: »

Dear Lord. An enjoyable film with good acting from the two leads. Looking over this thread makes me cringe though with the amount of words such as 'masterpiece','exhilarating', etc been thrown about. One Flew Over The Cuckoos Nest, Schindlers List, Raging Bull........all masterpieces. Whiplash? Erm, nope. Seems like a lot of people jumping on the hype bandwagon to me.

I would class Whiplash as a masterpiece, yes, unquestionably.

That "good" acting just won J.K. Simmons the most well deserved Oscar I can recall in several years. I was inadvertently holding my breath several times in those last 15 minutes - now THAT has never happened as long as I've been watching movies. I'd be interested to know if you have ever played an instrument. Not that that's a pre-requisite to appreciating Whiplash, but I'd be shocked if something as accomplished and finely honed as Whiplash didn't resonate strongly with anyone who's ever had a music teacher.

P.S. Baaaaaaaaa

Nervous Wreck · 23-02-2015 10:05pm

Wailin wrote: »

Dear Lord. An enjoyable film with good acting from the two leads. Looking over this thread makes me cringe though with the amount of words such as 'masterpiece','exhilarating', etc been thrown about. One Flew Over The Cuckoos Nest, Schindlers List, Raging Bull........all masterpieces. Whiplash? Erm, nope. Seems like a lot of people jumping on the hype bandwagon to me.

The only reason no one was accused of jumping on bandwagons when they said Raging Bull was a masterpiece is there were no internet forums where people could make stupid digs at each other. One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest is shite imo and completely misses the tone of the book. Opinions differ; build a bridge.

eviltwin · 23-02-2015 10:08pm

Wailin wrote: »

Dear Lord. An enjoyable film with good acting from the two leads. Looking over this thread makes me cringe though with the amount of words such as 'masterpiece','exhilarating', etc been thrown about. One Flew Over The Cuckoos Nest, Schindlers List, Raging Bull........all masterpieces. Whiplash? Erm, nope. Seems like a lot of people jumping on the hype bandwagon to me.

Whiplash is easily one of the best movies I've seen in the last ten years. I liked it so much I went to see it a second time. I don't remember the last time I did that. It was as much though the music as anything, I'm a massive jazz fan and its not often you get to hear it on the big screen.

Nervous Wreck · 23-02-2015 10:09pm

bren2001 wrote: »

But Andrew does care about these things. He asked her on a date and then ended it because she would hold him back. When he gets asked by Fletch to perform again he calls her. If she didn't have a boyfriend and went, when he gets screwed over on stage, it is most likely he would have left with her meaning yes, she would have held him back.

Just because all he cared about was becoming the best Jazz musician doesnt mean he didn't have to sacrifice love and friendships for it.

Well that is the meaning I gave to the ending really.

Again, disagree.

Andrew doesn't end it because she'll hold him back. He specifically says that he would never allow her to hold him back and would definitely treat her poorly because, next to his passion, she could only ever be second place. The idea of her holding him back doesn't even enter his mind. He lets her off easy because he's actually a nice dude. Or he's not arsed with the inevitable fallout. But it's nothing to do with sacrifice.

Whiplash

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