HSE Paramedic and social media

daveprom · 19-09-2014 1:31pm #1

As the title states I have a query on the moral , professional and ethical implications of a HSE paramedic posting sensitive information on social media sites .

It concerns posts made by an individual who is an HSE paramedic regarding fatalities in an RTA incident , I understand that the paramedic in question was not on duty at the time of the crash ,nor did he attend the scene , yet this individual posted on several social media sites within a very short time of the crash ,

The main concern was that he used knowledge not in the public domain at the time and made it available without due consideration for any relatives involved with the deceased person .

This individual made public information regarding the deceased person and their identity hours before relatives had been informed .

I assume that paramedics are subject to certain conditions of employment in this regard from the HSE ,

I would also assume that a lot of people on this forum would say that its par for the course and they individual should be applauded for his actions ,

Just looking for an informed opinion from people on the inside before the matter goes his employers.

It is not the only incident that this individual has made public ,

Zambia · 19-09-2014 2:13pm

Basically your asking for ammunition to "hang" a Paramedic.

daveprom · 19-09-2014 2:23pm

No, not looking for any ammunition whatsover , the paramedic in question has supplied all that ,.plenty of digital fingerprints left .

Was interested in the feeling out there in the context of those that would support the paramedic and their actions .

Paulzx · 19-09-2014 3:56pm

daveprom wrote: »

I would also assume that a lot of people on this forum would say that its par for the course and they individual should be applauded for his actions ,

Why would you assume that? I don't understand the tone of that comment.

You seem to be already aware of the answer to the question you have posed so I don't really understand what you think you will get from a thread here.

timmywex · 19-09-2014 4:08pm

daveprom wrote: »

As the title states I have a query on the moral , professional and ethical implications of a HSE paramedic posting sensitive information on social media sites .

It concerns posts made by an individual who is an HSE paramedic regarding fatalities in an RTA incident , I understand that the paramedic in question was not on duty at the time of the crash ,nor did he attend the scene , yet this individual posted on several social media sites within a very short time of the crash ,

The main concern was that he used knowledge not in the public domain at the time and made it available without due consideration for any relatives involved with the deceased person .

This individual made public information regarding the deceased person and their identity hours before relatives had been informed .

I assume that paramedics are subject to certain conditions of employment in this regard from the HSE ,

I would also assume that a lot of people on this forum would say that its par for the course and they individual should be applauded for his actions ,

Just looking for an informed opinion from people on the inside before the matter goes his employers.

It is not the only incident that this individual has made public ,

The question is where the information came from. If he was not on duty at the time and didn't attend the scene it could be possible that he heard the information somewhere else, information like that tends to spread fast around a town or group of people even when not officially announced yet.

Im sure he's posting to his private social media account, so as long as he doesn't use confidential information he did no wrong.

daveprom · 19-09-2014 5:22pm

Ok , so posting it on a private site is Fine ? but is posting it on a site that is open to all an issue ?

What are the HSE regulations in regard to this behavior of one of their employees

I would have expected that HSE staff and employees were governed by a code of conduct .

19-09-2014 5:45pm

If you feel so strongly about it complain to the National Ambulance Service.

Potential-Monke · 19-09-2014 8:22pm

daveprom wrote: »

I would have expected that HSE staff and employees were governed by a code of conduct .

I'm sure they are, but maybe that code doesn't extend to their off duty time? Without giving a lot more information than whats in your first post, it's hard to answer anything.

timmywex · 19-09-2014 9:14pm

daveprom wrote: »

Ok , so posting it on a private site is Fine ? but is posting it on a site that is open to all an issue ?

No, what I mean he is posting on his private facebook/twitter/whatever page in a personal capacity as opposed to a HSE/NAS page. Hence why you'll often see on the likes of twitter pages something about views being personal and not employers etc etc

antichrist · 20-09-2014 4:49pm

daveprom wrote: »

What are the HSE regulations in regard to this behavior of one of their employees

So, there's this mad site called Google. If you manage to find this site (difficult to do as its hidden in the underbelly of the web) and search 'National Ambulance Service social media policy' its amazing what the top result yields.

I assume you may be a FB friend of this person as you are reading their posts...why come online to a public forum to ask these questions? Why not message him/her asking if its not a bit dodgy posting this kind of information?

NonBeliever14 · 21-09-2014 2:46am

DaveProm, if the scenario you have outlined is the full picture, then yes, completely inappropriate for any health professional to share information in relation to any patient on social media regardless of how they obtained it. Whilst it might be a breach of the HSE Code of Conduct and Behaviour and Social Media Policy (both available on their website), I suspect the professional regulator (Pre Hospital Emergency Care Council) would be a more appropriate avenue to consider. The actions as described, if a full and accurate account, are possibly a breach of the Code of Conduct and Ethics. Being off duty will not be of any relevance to them from a professional perspective.

21-09-2014 3:05am

(Bad RTA trigger warning)

OP,

If this forum was the real world, this thread would be like walking into a SIPTU or other union meeting and asking those assembled what you've asked. Yes this forum is open to the public to read & for them to write, but when you ask a unioned profession member a question that may adversely affect another unioned profession member, there is a tendency to close ranks.

I'm going to give you the non-closed shop non-snarky non-"fook off you're not one of us" answer.

Yes, like every medical profession, HSE paramedics are subject to rules re: confidentiality.

*However*

It is recognised in all medical professions that, both to learn lessons that benefit their understanding & performance of the job, and to help process what can be a very traumatic job (I defy any Pmedic to say they've never had/will never have to help clean up a person's body parts from a side of the road), that discussing things that happen with colleagues in a general manner ("I had a patient with X" vs "Johnny D from A had X") is beneficial.

In Ireland, with a population that, at most, would have maybe 4 degrees of separation between every single person on the island, not being able to figure who "X" is can be difficult. Now I'm not saying this paramedic mate of yours is in the right here, but he could very well have heard from his colleague "had a patient with X" and then heard "Johnny B was in deh ambulance!".

Anyway, while I can come across as being anti-union-looking-out-for-union, I do know that while you're reading this guy's Facebook, so are all of his colleagues. If there's something up on it that's beyond the pale, they'll take him aside, have a quiet chat, and it'll come down. They look after each other, in a good way.

If not, and it's in public, I would wonder: would here be any benefit to going paperwork on this? Because the paperwork (I.E. Formal) thing to do is report him to his boss. That would only really be appropriate if he said something outrageous like "So Johnny B got hiz brains all over de road hahaha" or something similar to that....

I don't see the benefit of going formal. If you can, talk to a colleague of his. And unless you're connected to the deceased, then you're just a bystander. If you feel that strongly then leave the information with the deceased's family. It's not your fight, (not anyone's really)

daveprom · 21-09-2014 6:59pm

Thank you to Nonbeliever14 and Andres Icy Newsprint for your informed posts , I have to admit that I am closely connected to the individual that was involved in the RTA ,

The "Paramedic " concerned also posted on this site also at the time , I take it from the first few posts that there are plenty on here that would do the same as they see no wrong in it and stand up for the guy ,

From their perspective I would seem to be the person in the wrong for even thinking of making a complaint about one of their own ,

Anyway the Posts are still up on this site , he was able to remove his posts from another site , but not before it was recorded ,
As I said before he left plenty of rope to hang himself , this combined with the attitude of his buddies is enough for me to bring the matter further .

That type of behavior is unprofessional to say the least , but when the combined pack or union mentality of his fellow travelers is seen , its scary, and we the public entrust our lives to this type of bullyboy players .

Yes ,I came on here to ask a question but got an amazing insight into the minds and attitude of those that exist in the lower ranks of this so called medical " profession".

Mr "paramedic " will now be the subject of a complaint to the appropriate authorities by the looks of it .

sjb25 · 21-09-2014 7:07pm

http://www.hse.ie/eng/staff/Resources/socialmedia/SocialandDigitalMediaPolicy%20and%20Guidance%20for%20HSE%20Employees.pdf

21-09-2014 7:09pm

daveprom wrote: »

Thank you to Nonbeliever14 and Andres Icy Newsprint for your informed posts , I have to admit that I am closely connected to the individual that was involved in the RTA ,

The "Paramedic " concerned also posted on this site also at the time , I take it from the first few posts that there are plenty on here that would do the same as they see no wrong in it and stand up for the guy ,

From their perspective I would seem to be the person in the wrong for even thinking of making a complaint about one of their own ,

Anyway the Posts are still up on this site , he was able to remove his posts from another site , but not before it was recorded ,
As I said before he left plenty of rope to hang himself , this combined with the attitude of his buddies is enough for me to bring the matter further .

That type of behavior is unprofessional to say the least , but when the combined pack or union mentality of his fellow travelers is seen , its scary, and we the public entrust our lives to this type of bullyboy players .

Yes ,I came on here to ask a question but got an amazing insight into the minds and attitude of those that exist in the lower ranks of this so called medical " profession".

Mr "paramedic " will now be the subject of a complaint to the appropriate authorities by the looks of it .

Ah right, you're A Concerned Citizen type so. You have your hobby-horse issue, and everyone else can go hang. Not much difference between you & a union type, only difference is the Cause.

Edit: I misread, I thought you were stating you were connected to the paramedic, not a family member/friend of the victim. I believed you were a third party, getting involved because you think you Know the rights and wrongs of the situation, to hell with what anyone else thinks.

You're not. You're a friend/family of the deceased. In that case you've every right to pursue this if you feel aggrieved.

I'm leaving up what I wrote at first, because it was thanked.

sjb25 · 21-09-2014 7:09pm

sjb25 wrote: »

http://www.hse.ie/eng/staff/Resources/socialmedia/SocialandDigitalMediaPolicy%20and%20Guidance%20for%20HSE%20Employees.pdf

Very quick google......as others have said if what you said is true then yes inappropriate but it all depends what info they gave out and where it was optained in my opinion he wasn't working or even on the scence so what could he have known that others did not

Zambia · 22-09-2014 9:57am

daveprom wrote: »

Thank you to Nonbeliever14 and Andres Icy Newsprint for your informed posts , I have to admit that I am closely connected to the individual that was involved in the RTA ,

The "Paramedic " concerned also posted on this site also at the time , I take it from the first few posts that there are plenty on here that would do the same as they see no wrong in it and stand up for the guy ,

From their perspective I would seem to be the person in the wrong for even thinking of making a complaint about one of their own ,

Anyway the Posts are still up on this site , he was able to remove his posts from another site , but not before it was recorded ,
As I said before he left plenty of rope to hang himself , this combined with the attitude of his buddies is enough for me to bring the matter further .

That type of behavior is unprofessional to say the least , but when the combined pack or union mentality of his fellow travelers is seen , its scary, and we the public entrust our lives to this type of bullyboy players .

Yes ,I came on here to ask a question but got an amazing insight into the minds and attitude of those that exist in the lower ranks of this so called medical " profession".

Mr "paramedic " will now be the subject of a complaint to the appropriate authorities by the looks of it .

If there is a post on this site you found revealing personal information I doubt it was let remain there for long.

In my 8 years on this site any post that even hints at revealing personal data not already in the general media is quickly acted upon.

By all means if you have a complaint go ahead and make it. However forgive me if we don't all rally behind you when you have made vague allegations backed up by scant if any evidence.

Every man and his dog knows that the revealing of personal info on the internet by the services is a no no. Of all the ES personnel on this forum I have never seen it done even once and there are a few Paramedics lurking about the place.

daveprom · 22-09-2014 10:59am

Well Zambia, Ive news for you , just checked on this site and the information posted by this clown is still there !!!.

He was able to get his posts removed from another site and the thread was cleaned , but its still up on Boards . Although he has since cancelled that account after years of posting , he probably posts under another name now anyway ,

Pm me and I will supply you with the details if you wish .

Zambia · 22-09-2014 1:43pm

Daveprom has stated he wont send me the link.

Its up to him if he wants to say more but I can not either confirm or deny anything he has said.

daveprom · 22-09-2014 1:47pm

Just want to clarify the issue , Its not that I WONT send you the link , but on legal advise it would be very unwise at this stage for the matter to be public .

The posts are still here on Boards ,

Leo Demidov · 22-09-2014 1:56pm

I was rooting for you all along Dave. If there is an ape posting information in breach their organisations social media charter, in breach of Phecc guidelines and in breach of common decency then by all means it needs to be addressed. It looks now like you were spoofing. Perhaps you should have gone to your legal advisor with all the relevant information in the first instance. Best of luck with your top secret expose.

Zambia · 22-09-2014 1:57pm

Why would it be unwise?

If the content is so terrible as to warrant legal action surely it should be taken down?

Turner · 22-09-2014 5:15pm

daveprom wrote: »

Just want to clarify the issue , Its not that I WONT send you the link , but on legal advise it would be very unwise at this stage for the matter to be public .

The posts are still here on Boards ,

PM me the link and I will have it addressed by the site admins.

Thread closed until that happens, your complaint will be addressed then.

HSE Paramedic and social media

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