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Ongoing religious scandals

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  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,462 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    Technically about adoptions,
    But the documentary also covers priests sexually abusing as well.

    The world doc that was on BBC lastnight...its upsetting to watch

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2y6KZEUHx_s&feature=youtu.be


  • Registered Users Posts: 33,867 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/church-paid-up-to-50m-in-wake-of-sean-brady-revelations-30585232.html
    The Catholic Church is believed to have paid out up to €50m in compensation to abuse victims since former Cardinal Sean Brady's direct involvement in the swearing to secrecy of two of the victims of the paedophile priest Fr Brendan Smyth was revealed by the Sunday Independent.

    Senior legal sources said there was a rush to settle the bulk of up to 300 High Court cases in which Brady was nominally named as lead defendant on behalf of the Church.

    Many of the cases had been before the court for more than a decade - some for up to 16 years - as the Church stonewalled the plaintiffs.

    The case that exposed Brady's direct involvement, where he was the "note-taker" in a case involving the boys raped by Smyth, had been before the High Court for 13 years.

    However, Since Brady's involvement came to light in March 2010, a considerable number of the cases that had been before the courts for years have been reported on official records as ending with "no orders made in this case".

    Legal sources say this is the usual sign that a case has been settled out of court. Such settlements are also usually contingent on the plaintiffs accepting confidentiality clauses, legally preventing them from speaking publicly about their abuse.

    One senior legal source involved in some of the cases said it was likely the total amount in settlements was between "€40m to €50m".

    Life ain't always empty.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    The Vatican finally gets serious about clerical pedophiles and arrests, I believe, its first alleged senior-level pedophile since the scandal started to break just over twenty years ago:

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/24/vatican-ambassador-child-sex-catholic-paedophilia
    A former Vatican ambassador has been placed under house arrest and will face a criminal trial on child sex charges, the Holy See said on Tuesday night. The action against Józef Wesołowski, 66, is the first time that the Vatican has charged a high-ranking official with paedophilia. If found guilty he could face up to 12 years in prison.

    The Polish-born cleric was recalled from the Dominican Republic in August 2013 after the archbishop of Santo Domingo told Pope Francis about rumours that Wesołowski had sexually abused teenage boys in the Caribbean country. Prosecutors there say he allegedly paid boys as young as 13 to masturbate.

    In June a Vatican tribunal found Wesołowski guilty of abuse and imposed its toughest penalty under church law: laicisation, or returning to life as a layman. Being defrocked meant that he lost his diplomatic immunity and the Dominican Republic has opened an investigation into accusations that he paid boys to perform sexual acts.

    The Vatican had been criticised for protecting Wesołowski from legal action by the Dominican authorities by recalling him last year. The case has also been a test of whether Francis is willing to prosecute a crime that the Vatican has long sought to blame on priests, rather than direct representatives of the pope himself.

    The Vatican said the arrest reflected the wishes of the Pope that “such a grave and delicate case be handled without delay, with the just and necessary rigour”. Francis has said that no Catholic clerics who sexually abused children would escape punishment and has described paedophilia as an “ugly crime” and likened it to a “satanic mass”.

    Wesołowski is the most prominent church figure to be arrested since Paolo Gabriele, a former papal butler convicted in 2012 of stealing and leaking private papers of the former pope Benedict XVI. The Pole was granted house arrest in a Vatican apartment on medical grounds rather than being detained in its prison - a small number of rooms attached to a courthouse.

    It is unclear whether Wesołowski would be jailed inside the Vatican, or in an Italian prison, if convicted.


  • Registered Users Posts: 33,867 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    BBC article about the McAleese whitewash report

    Demanding justice for women and children abused by Irish nuns
    So the Magdalene laundry survivors are asking for this latest inquiry to have a wide remit, and to investigate the laundries again.

    "I would love them to get to the real truth, but they won't," says Coppin. "They won't inquire properly because I know what the government are like."


    Will be on Newsnight tonight on BBC2 from 10:30pm

    Life ain't always empty.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Pope Francis fires bishop who promoted priest accused of sexual abuse

    http://www.thejournal.ie/pope-francis-fires-bishop-1692003-Sep2014
    TheJournal wrote:
    POPE FRANCIS HAS forcibly removed a conservative Paraguayan bishop who had clashed with his fellow bishops on ideological grounds and promoted a priest accused of inappropriate sexual behaviour.

    The removal of Bishop Rogelio Ricardo Livieres Plano, a member of the conservative Opus Dei movement, marks the second time Francis has kicked out a conservative bishop for the sake of keeping peace among the faithful and unity among bishops. In March, he ousted the “bling bishop” of Limburg, Germany, whose €31 million ($43-million) new residence complex caused an uproar among the faithful.

    Livieres was named bishop of Paraguay’s second city, Ciudad del Este, in 2004 and immediately disturbed other more progressive Paraguayan bishops by opening his own seminary that followed a much more orthodox line than the main seminary in the capital, Asuncion. Paraguay’s bishops are known for their progressive bent in a poor country where liberation theology found fertile ground.

    Relations between Livieres and the rest of Paraguay’s bishops worsened when he got into a public spat with the then-archbishop of Asuncion, whom he accused of being gay. Livieres also infuriated advocates for victims of sexual abuse by taking in and promoting an Argentine priest, the Rev. Carlos Urrutigoity, whose former superior in the U.S. had said was a “serious threat to young people.”

    Urrutigoity has denied allegations of sexual impropriety, has never been charged and hasn’t been accused of sexually abusing minors. In 2004, though, the diocese of Scranton, Pennsylvania, settled a lawsuit against him, another priest and the diocese for $400,000. The suit had alleged the two men engaged in a pattern of sexual misconduct, the Global Post has reported. Earlier this year, the Vatican sent a cardinal to investigate problems in Livieres’ diocese, particularly concerning the seminary. The investigator reported back to Francis, and Livieres was summoned to Rome this week to discuss his future.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 33,867 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/free-up-institutional-abuse-fund-to-help-asylum-seekers-says-bishop-1.1952873
    Catholic Bishop of Dromore John McAreavey has said it would be helpful if resources offered by religious orders to help pay the redress bill for survivors of institutional abuse could be released to help asylum seekers.

    The bishop likened the direct provision system to industrial schools and reformatories in the past.

    What? Asylum seekers are being systematically illegally detained, raped, beaten and psychologically abused by the people running these centres, and there is a vast criminal conspiracy to cover it all up? Really??

    The meagre resources offered by the religious orders are far from what is required for the institutional abuse survivors, never mind being able to provide for an entirely separate issue as well.

    Asked on RTÉ Radio’s This Week programme whether resources offered by 18 religious congregations as part of the redress settlement could be released to help asylum seekers, he said: “It’s probably part of the spirit in which the contribution was made and certainly if some of those resources which have been made available could be used to help with this problem, that would be helpful.

    “But at the end of the day this is a State-created issue. The State is responsible for those people who come to the State seeking citizenship.”

    Tell you what. Let the state pay in full for the problems it has created and let your church pay in full for the issues it has created. That'd be fair...

    Life ain't always empty.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Banbh


    Under the new not-blasphemy laws, that would be incitement to 'religious hatred'. In fact any criticism of the Catholic Church's crimes and its refusal to pay for those crimes is clearly motivated by religious hatred.


  • Moderators Posts: 51,708 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    Boy restrained in cattle equipment while raped by priest, abuse inquiry told
    A MAN has given harrowing evidence to the north's child abuse inquiry of being held in a cattle crush while being raped.

    The witness said a religious brother at Rubane House in Co Down put him in the farm equipment, used to hold animals while veterinary work is carried out, before abusing him.

    He said he reported the attack to a priest, but claimed the cleric told his abuser.

    He was then beaten with a walking stick and locked in a cupboard over-night, the man told the Historical Institutional Abuse (HIA) inquiry.

    The victim was a resident at the boys' home, run by the De La Salle order, which is the subject of a government-ordered investigation into allegations of historical physical and sexual attacks on boys.

    Claims of bestiality and children going missing were also made by witnesses.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    Sick stuff.
    As this is a "historical abuse" inquiry, most of the perpetrators are probably dead and buried by now. But it will interesting to see what compensation is offered to the victims, and who pays it. I can't see the RCC in N. Ireland getting the same sweet indemnity deal they got in the ROI.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Banbh


    Is this terror gang - the La Salle association - still in existence? If it is, it is a great shame on us all.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    De La Salle are selling a school in Ballyfermot, and the locals are protesting.
    They had two schools, one for boys with big GAA pitches, and one for girls with hardly any space. So they are selling off the one with the GAA pitches, which should fetch a pretty penny, being so close to Dublin city centre.
    Its the school whose corridors were stalked by the notorious paedohile Tony Walsh.
    But now that the paedophiles are back in their box for a while, all the parents want to do is to keep the local school with its spacious surroundings. I can see their point. People have short memories.
    I'd like to see it commandeered by the State and turned into a secular school, but as the State is unwilling to seize church property, I'll be glad to see it concreted over with new apartment blocks. I hope those abuse victims in NI can sue the religious order for all the money they get from the sale. It wouldn't surprise me though if they claimed that De La Salle as incorporated in NI were not the same as those in ROI.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,626 ✭✭✭eire4


    recedite wrote: »
    De La Salle are selling a school in Ballyfermot, and the locals are protesting.
    They had two schools, one for boys with big GAA pitches, and one for girls with hardly any space. So they are selling off the one with the GAA pitches, which should fetch a pretty penny, being so close to Dublin city centre.
    Its the school whose corridors were stalked by the notorious paedohile Tony Walsh.
    But now that the paedophiles are back in their box for a while, all the parents want to do is to keep the local school with its spacious surroundings. I can see their point. People have short memories.
    I'd like to see it commandeered by the State and turned into a secular school, but as the State is unwilling to seize church property, I'll be glad to see it concreted over with new apartment blocks. I hope those abuse victims in NI can sue the religious order for all the money they get from the sale. It wouldn't surprise me though if they claimed that De La Salle as incorporated in NI were not the same as those in ROI.




    Are the De La Salle order still involved in running St Benildus in Stillorgan? There used to be both a primary and secondary school but I am pretty sure the primary school is closed and its only a secondary school now. Not sure if the De La Salle order are still running it though.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,182 ✭✭✭Genghiz Cohen


    recedite wrote: »
    De La Salle are selling a school in Ballyfermot, and the locals are protesting.
    They had two schools, one for boys with big GAA pitches, and one for girls with hardly any space. So they are selling off the one with the GAA pitches, which should fetch a pretty penny, being so close to Dublin city centre.

    Educate Together fundraiser to buy the school?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    eire4 wrote: »
    Are the De La Salle order still involved in running St Benildus in Stillorgan?
    Not sure tbh, but in general the religious orders do not have enough personnel these days to staff their schools. They prefer to control the "ethos" via the BOM and by controlling recruitment policies, while the State pays these lay teachers. Priests can still wander in whenever they feel like it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 33,867 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    ^ Maximum control for minimal effort and next to no cost. You'd think the people who pay to run the damn place would have an input??

    Life ain't always empty.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,626 ✭✭✭eire4


    recedite wrote: »
    Not sure tbh, but in general the religious orders do not have enough personnel these days to staff their schools. They prefer to control the "ethos" via the BOM and by controlling recruitment policies, while the State pays these lay teachers. Priests can still wander in whenever they feel like it.



    Your probably right. I wonder why the primary school was closed. Its not like the area is short on population.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    eire4 wrote: »
    I wonder why the primary school was closed. Its not like the area is short on population.
    The same reasons a factory closes; its a combination of two things. Demand for the product falls due it becoming outdated and some of the market switching to new competition which appears. The facility owner then decides to cash in their capital, and do something else with it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,626 ✭✭✭eire4


    recedite wrote: »
    The same reasons a factory closes; its a combination of two things. Demand for the product falls due it becoming outdated and some of the market switching to new competition which appears. The facility owner then decides to cash in their capital, and do something else with it.



    You might be correct but equally there may have been other reasons that the De La Salle order closed the primary school. Some not so shall we same mundane.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Over to our jewish friends this morning with the peculiar story of an orthodox rabbi caught with his video camera in a changing room.

    http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/10/15/us/prominent-rabbi-arrested-on-a-charge-of-voyeurism.html


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Banbh


    That rabbi thought it was a necessary procedure to convert to Catholicism.


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  • Moderators Posts: 51,708 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    Archbishop on IRA sex offenders: “Let the truth come out”
    Asked what he would say to Adams, who’s been under political pressure as a result of his dispute with Maíria Cahill, Martin responded:
    I would say to anybody – let the truth come out.

    “Let the truth be investigated in a transparent open way by the competent authorities.

    From the man who swore abuse victims to secrecy :rolleyes:

    EDIT: my mistake (cheers Nodin for correction)

    If you can read this, you're too close!



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,624 ✭✭✭SebBerkovich


    SW wrote: »
    Archbishop on IRA sex offenders: “Let the truth come out”



    From the man who swore abuse victims to secrecy :rolleyes:

    When the Archbishop saw- "Sexual abuse victims mistreated by a secretive organisation" what was the first thing that came to mind....
    "Hey, they don't mean us this time!"
    or
    "Judging by my CV, I'm clearly the most qualified person to make a statement about this"


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    SW wrote: »
    Archbishop on IRA sex offenders: “Let the truth come out”



    From the man who swore abuse victims to secrecy :rolleyes:


    In fairness, wasn't that Brady?


  • Moderators Posts: 51,708 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    Nodin wrote: »
    In fairness, wasn't that Brady?
    :o

    my bad. Edited accordingly.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    ^^^ Martin's the only guy I have any respect for in the institutional church - I don't know if he's having any effect or whether his successor will be like him, but in a field filled with the fist-wavings of the likes of Quinn, O'Brien and McDevitt, he provides a mostly sane voice, if a lonely one.


  • Registered Users Posts: 500 ✭✭✭Mr_A


    The remarkable thing about Martin is that he seems to have a firm grasp of the concepts of right and wrong. It is a sad indictment of the catholic hierarchy that this makes him exceptional.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Miriam Lord opens both barrels in the direction of Gerry Adams:

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/oireachtas/this-was-not-leaders-questions-as-we-know-it-it-was-an-unprecedented-situation-in-the-d%C3%A1il-1.1973438
    Not so long ago, in a troubled place they called the Six County Statelet, decent IRA volunteers indiscriminately murdered in a futile attempt to unite the country they love. But their hearts were in the right place. And that’s good enough for Gerry Adams, who is sad to see their revered names being sullied now by people who don’t understand. These IRA volunteers had so much love for Ireland they shunted their favoured perverts and paedophiles across the North’s border to the rest of the country they claim to love. Oh, and they shot the ones they didn’t need to protect. Decent people. Adams – the IRA’s Boswell – says he wasn’t a member, yet is remarkably intimate with the organisation’s inner workings; he won’t hear a bad word uttered against them. As he said yesterday, these volunteers “were acting, in my opinion, in good faith” when seeking “to deal with some cases of abuse when asked to do so by families and victims”.

    Good faith is not how Maíria Cahill would see it. Yesterday’s extraordinary session of Leaders’ Questions took place right after the Taoiseach met the Belfast woman who says she was raped by an IRA man and then sworn to secrecy by senior members of that organisation who took it upon themselves to “interrogate” her over a number of months to test the validity of her claims. At one point, three of them also forced her to meet her rapist during a “kangaroo court”. She says she met Gerry Adams in his office in west Belfast and told him her story. Adams, his deputy leader Mary Lou McDonald and the rest of the Sinn Féin parliamentary party accept that she was raped, but not the rest of her testimony.
    Maíria Cahill hasn’t deviated one bit from her version of events. The Gerry Adams/Sinn Féin version has subtly shifted from almost blanket denial to a revised state of knowledge.

    Both Enda Kenny and Micheál Martin wanted to hear specific answers from Gerry Adams yesterday to questions posed by Cahill. What they got was generalised remorse and a scripted reply on doing the right thing by abused women and children, interspersed with pinpoint indignation over the wrongs being done to decent members of Sinn Féin. When you read back over the short transcript of yesterday’s extraordinary Dáil exchanges involving Enda Kenny, Micheál Martin and Gerry Adams, the words on their own go nowhere near conveying the electrifying atmosphere in the chamber.

    The Taoiseach and the Fianna Fáil leader were in agreement over the need to investigate how, as Micheál Martin put it, “the most powerful men within the IRA interrogated victims of abuse at the hands of leading members of the IRA”. The Dáil did not accept the excuses of leading churchmen over their handling of abuse cases, he said, pointing out that Sinn Féin politicians were to the fore in condemning the Catholic Church when stories emerged of cover-ups over child sex abuse. He read some of the trenchant comments made at the time by the likes of Martin McGuinness and Mary Lou McDonald.

    The Taoiseach described Maíria Cahill as “a courageous, confident, brave young woman” who “overcame the horror of being raped to face down the IRA and its generals, secret or otherwise”. This was not Leaders’ Questions as we know it. It was an unprecedented situation in the Dáil chamber, with the leaders of the two main parties challenging the leader of one of the biggest parties on the Irish political scene. And they wanted to know why Gerry Adams and Sinn Féin should feel entitled not to be examined in the same way that the Church and other bodies were investigated when it emerged they ignored cases of abuse to protect their institutional reputations.

    Gerry Adams was surrounded by his colleagues , with Mary Lou McDonald to his left. And they looked rattled. When Enda Kenny questioned her “blind allegiance” to her leader, she slowly shook her head. As the session unwound and Adams rose to defend himself, his party, the IRA and “republicans” in general, you could almost feel the anger and resentment radiating from their ranks. Adams sounded hurt and outraged almost to the point of becoming emotional.


    To shouts of “shame” from around the chamber, he said the Taoiseach had “cast a slur on thousands of decent Irish republicans”. “Republicans are no different to any other Irish citizens,” he added. But as he read his script and issued an all-encompassing apology for any wrongs that might have been done by IRA members (who apparently were only trying to do the decent thing by responding to requests for help from ordinary people), the look of silent disgust on the faces of most of the non-Sinn Féin TDs told its own story. And, of course, times were different during the war. (Maíria Cahill’s ordeal happened in 1997.) “I have set out the circumstances in the North when there was no democratic civic policing service” explained Adams. What is needed now is a “victim-centred approach.”

    Some of comments were treated with outright derision, like when he declared: “I refute the allegations that have been made about me and about other Sinn Féin members who assure me that all they did in their engagements, conversations and work with Maíria Cahill . . .” “Work? Ha!” snorted Fianna Fáil’s Michael McGrath. But Sinn Féin – including their young political stars who are too young to know – were fuming, in full post-Vietnam vet mode. They just stopped short of shouting . “It was a war, man! You weren’t there!” Most of the TDs in the chamber had read of Gerry’s blog – in between teddy bear tweets and the like – at the weekend.

    Here’s a sample: “But these actions were of their time and reflected not only a community at war but also an attitude within Ireland which did not then understand or know as we now do, how deeply embedded abuse is in our society . . . as society became better informed as to the issue and handling of abuse, republicans began to develop victim-centred approaches.” And we were transported back to other difficult days, in wood-panelled rooms in big parochial houses, when troubleshooting bishops spoke of different times and how nobody really knew about abuse and now that they do, they are really, really sorry.

    As for those simple questions for Adams, put to him by the Taoiseach in the Dáil, there were no straight answers. In fact, the Sinn Féin leader insisted he had already “refuted” them. Refute means to prove – he offered little proof.
    And what about the alleged abusers moved south of the Border, or “sent to another parish”, as Micheál Martin observed? “I don’t know” he said. All he knows is that decent volunteers have been done down by “sleeveen” Enda Kenny and Micheál Martin.

    And them pure as the driven truck . . . laden with explosives with an innocent man chained to the steering wheel.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,163 ✭✭✭Shrap


    That's some fancy shootin', right there Miriam :p


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Banbh


    The rise of Sinn Féin is causing open panic now in the media and the two-and-a-half political parties. The decline of FF, FG and Labour is mirrored in the decline in the circulation of the Irish Times and Co.

    One day soon the tipping point will be reached and we may get a new and secular republic.

    To quote Mr Pearse: 'Beware of the thing that is coming. Beware of the risen people.'


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  • Registered Users Posts: 33,867 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Sinn Fein have even less morals than the RCC. I'm very disappointed by your post Banbh as you seem to welcome those who refuse to condemn rape and murder entering government?

    Life ain't always empty.



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