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"Leap" into the unknown: The feedback thread

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Comments

  • #1412
    markpb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,248 ✭✭✭markpb


    Tarabuses wrote: »
    It's not widely publicised if you can.

    Like one of the previous posters said, you jut hit the speaker icon in the bottom left and she, thankfully, shuts up.


  • #1413
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Had a minor confrontation with a bus driver on the 41 this morning. I boarded and stated Santry Avenue as my destination (which is a valid stop, 1624). The driver didn't know and asked me, quite rudely, if I wanted a €1.40 or €1.90 fare. I was a bit taken aback and ended up saying "I don't know, you should know your own route." I now know it to be €1.90 anyway.

    Due to the stage system being so complicated I've always just stated the destination. And Dublin Bus themselves tell you to state your destination to the driver - another example of the instructions telling you one thing, and something completely different happening on the ground.


  • #1414
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    That's hardly an issue with the leapcard, the same dispute will happen without it.

    My girlfriend got one the other day and I've told her just to mention the fare she needs to pay. It's how I've always done it with coins.


  • #1415
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Well if we used a tag on/tag off system it wouldn't be a problem at all.


  • #1416
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    Karsini wrote: »
    Had a minor confrontation with a bus driver on the 41 this morning. I boarded and stated Santry Avenue as my destination (which is a valid stop, 1624). The driver didn't know and asked me, quite rudely, if I wanted a €1.40 or €1.90 fare. I was a bit taken aback and ended up saying "I don't know, you should know your own route." I now know it to be €1.90 anyway.

    Due to the stage system being so complicated I've always just stated the destination. And Dublin Bus themselves tell you to state your destination to the driver - another example of the instructions telling you one thing, and something completely different happening on the ground.

    Forget about quoting Stop Numbers to Busdrivers...these are not available on the Ticket Machine.

    Whilst they do actually mean something to Continentals,sadly our introduction of them did not include any ability to look them up on the Ticket Machine.

    In this instance,Karsini,you probably met a Busdriver unfamiliar with the route,(17A by any chance ?) who,like yourself,would have benefitted from having the Fare Stages actually identified,as was the case before the last re-branding,when ALL traces of on-street Stage Markings were deliberately removed.

    The Stage System itself is actually quite simple and very flexible for both passenger and operator,as it allows for a wide variety of fares based upon distance travelled.

    HOWEVER,that simplicity and flexibility is TOTALLY dependent upon the actual Fare Stages being clearly identified to ALL.

    No explanation has ever been offered as to why these were removed,but their absence makes the entire system unworkable,as any passenger pursued for over-riding their fare could,I believe,offer a very credible defence that since the company quite deliberately removed the markings it had made it impossible for passengers and staff to comply with the "Conditions of Travel".

    The answer is quite simple.

    Reinstate the Fare Stage Markings....or (if you're awash with funding) introduce a completely new Fare system...I wonder which course will be adopted...?

    You could perhaps seek some confirmation from the NTA as to what their opinion of the lack of basic Fare-Stage information is...maybe they don't think it's important either...?


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



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  • #1417
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    AlekSmart wrote: »
    Forget about quoting Stop Numbers to Busdrivers...these are not available on the Ticket Machine.

    Whilst they do actually mean something to Continentals,sadly our introduction of them did not include any ability to look them up on the Ticket Machine.

    In this instance,Karsini,you probably met a Busdriver unfamiliar with the route,(17A by any chance ?) who,like yourself,would have benefitted from having the Fare Stages actually identified,as was the case before the last re-branding,when ALL traces of on-street Stage Markings were deliberately removed.

    The Stage System itself is actually quite simple and very flexible for both passenger and operator,as it allows for a wide variety of fares based upon distance travelled.

    HOWEVER,that simplicity and flexibility is TOTALLY dependent upon the actual Fare Stages being clearly identified to ALL.

    No explanation has ever been offered as to why these were removed,but their absence makes the entire system unworkable,as any passenger pursued for over-riding their fare could,I believe,offer a very credible defence that since the company quite deliberately removed the markings it had made it impossible for passengers and staff to comply with the "Conditions of Travel".

    The answer is quite simple.

    Reinstate the Fare Stage Markings....or (if you're awash with funding) introduce a completely new Fare system...I wonder which course will be adopted...?

    You could perhaps seek some confirmation from the NTA as to what their opinion of the lack of basic Fare-Stage information is...maybe they don't think it's important either...?
    No, it was the 41 I was on. I didn't quote the stop number to the driver, I just posted that on here as a reference. :)

    I'm generally a "do things by the book" person so I suppose the thing that frustrated me most is that I stated my destination, yet the driver didn't know what fare to issue.

    I've been having a rough few days in general so ignore me if you want. :pac:


  • #1418
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,239 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    There is a work-around for this - the driver says the name of the stages shown on his screen. :)


  • #1419
    Stevek101
    Registered Users Posts: 1,281 ✭✭✭Stevek101


    Did anyone get anymore emails about the auto top-up trial? I should of join the last time but I forgot about it.


  • #1420
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,239 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Stevek101 wrote: »
    Did anyone get anymore emails about the auto top-up trial? I should of join the last time but I forgot about it.
    The trial is in progress at the moment. I don't think they are looking for more people.

    If anyone has feedback, feel free to contact them.


  • #1421
    Stevek101
    Registered Users Posts: 1,281 ✭✭✭Stevek101


    Victor wrote: »
    The trial is in progress at the moment. I don't think they are looking for more people.

    If anyone has feedback, feel free to contact them.

    Do you know if they've started to trial capping on Dublin Bus or tickets on the Leap card. I'll be delighted when I can stick my 30 day rambler on!


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  • #1422
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,239 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Stevek101 wrote: »
    Do you know if they've started to trial capping on Dublin Bus or tickets on the Leap card. I'll be delighted when I can stick my 30 day rambler on!

    Capping exists for Luas http://www.luas.ie/introducing-leapcard-capping.html and will be expanded to Dublin Bus and other operators in due course. I imagine they want to see that things are stable and how people are behaving so they can decide on capping values.

    At the moment, capping is proposed for daily and weekly (Monday-Sunday) values, I'm not sure how they will deal with 30-day ramblers - you might need to buy it as a 'product' (as opposed to the current 'electronic purse'), but it will be on the same card. There are practical limits on how many charging limits you set on the card - too many an people will be confused. they also need to be conscious of eroding the fare base.


  • #1423
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    Victor wrote: »
    There is a work-around for this - the driver says the name of the stages shown on his screen. :)

    But Victor,this can only be done with the TIM display in Fare Lookup mode.
    Added to this is the fact that a significant amount of Fare Stages are ambiguously described,with usually two alternatives being available.

    I simply cannot fathom why a Public Transport Operator which purports to operate a FareStage system,suddenly decides to obliterate all traces of Fare Stage markings from its network...it just defies logic :(


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • #1424
    Resi12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,034 ✭✭✭Resi12


    Should be going up to Dublin for the weekend soon enough, would it be handy to get one of these? I know it's not exactly necessary but sure if I can get one now and top it up and have my transport costs covered, then why not?


  • #1425
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,239 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Resi12 wrote: »
    Should be going up to Dublin for the weekend soon enough, would it be handy to get one of these?
    Irish Rail ticket machines or Leap Card vendors.

    To find agents, use the "Where to pay" function here: http://www.payzone.ie/


  • #1426
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,239 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Stevek101 wrote: »
    Did anyone get anymore emails about the auto top-up trial? I should of join the last time but I forgot about it.
    Sign-up windows from 12.00-14.00 and 19.00 to 21.00 - see (imperfect) instructions here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=82958653&postcount=1310


  • #1427
    Stevek101
    Registered Users Posts: 1,281 ✭✭✭Stevek101


    Victor wrote: »
    Sign-up windows from 12.00-14.00 and 19.00 to 21.00 - see (imperfect) instructions here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=82958653&postcount=1310

    Thanks, I managed to sign up successfully last night! I would of prefered to have my card topped up above €10 before signing up but didn't get a chance. The card is currently in negative balance.

    Do you know if I go to a Luas machine in a few days will it top it up if I check my balance on the ticket machine, without travelling?


  • #1428
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,239 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Stevek101 wrote: »
    Thanks, I managed to sign up successfully last night! I would of prefered to have my card topped up above €10 before signing up but didn't get a chance. The card is currently in negative balance.

    Do you know if I go to a Luas machine in a few days will it top it up if I check my balance on the ticket machine, without travelling?
    You will need to bring the balance above €0 and then you need to travel by bus or tram.


  • #1429
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,239 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Some posts move to Fare calculators and journey planners

    Moderator


  • #1430
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,554 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Tvm "reissued" my partners card yesterday. Issued a new one when topping up. It's an old card but seeing as old is a year or so surely it's not time for replacement yet?


  • #1431
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    Seems odd to me that a TVM would do that as well. Are you sure she didn't accidentally go to purchase a card? Check to see her original card is still active.


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  • #1432
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,554 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Will check both the cards at my local station later if I get the chance. Seriously doubt he selected the wrong option particularly as the entire topup amount seemed to go on. Card was on -5 originally


  • #1433
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    Some people will see the green Leap card logo and press that when they want to top up . That option is for buying a new card.
    You press the use card option underneath for topping up.


  • #1434
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    Some people will see the green Leap card logo and press that when they want to top up . That option is for buying a new card.
    You press the use card option underneath for topping up.

    Indeed,one has to consider whether the State got any value at all from the €40 Million+ set up of the ITS.

    From my perspective,whatever percentage was directed into the User Interface has been totally wasted.

    I am now dealing,on a daily basis,with significant numbers of Leap Customers who have very little concept of how their Card operates,with items such as Student Card element and Top-Up collections being the two most frequent.

    The actively user UNfriendly Interface which Leap has utilised is turning users off and this negativity is percolating into those who might otherwise have considered accquiring one.

    Somebody needs to get involved with Leapcard ASAP,before the thing starts to slide back down into the abyss....

    Bill Cullen,Fergal Quinn,Mick Wallace......Me....anybody,except those who are currently faffing about with the thing :eek:


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • #1435
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    Ive seen some trying to use the Leap card to buy a ticket, unable to understand simple instructions on how to use it at the validators etc. No matter how much or little would be spent on it or if there was only the one option, some would still be clueless .


  • #1436
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    Ive seen some trying to use the Leap card to buy a ticket, unable to understand simple instructions on how to use it at the validators etc. No matter how much or little would be spent on it or if there was only the one option, some would still be clueless .


    Agreed,and a valid point.

    However,I'm seeing a significant number of people who are quite compos-mentis and who have embraced Leapcard,but who are being caught-out by the significant non-functionality of Leapcard.

    The Top-Up load location is but one issue which should never have occurred....the solid-state nature of the equipment required and it' small size should have ensured a network of such terminals all over the BUS system.

    Even the relative non-visibility of Leapcard Point-Of-Sale material is disconcerting to many,particularly as not all PayZone agents handle Leapcard.

    It is as if the NTA are unsure of it's product or worse still,afraid of it's success. :mad:


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • #1437
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,239 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    Ive seen some trying to use the Leap card to buy a ticket, unable to understand simple instructions on how to use it at the validators etc. No matter how much or little would be spent on it or if there was only the one option, some would still be clueless .

    No amount of effort would succeed in educating that few per cent of people - concentrate instead on the other 90-95%* of people.



    * Note there will be another 5% who just won't want to pay. :)


  • #1438
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,554 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    Some people will see the green Leap card logo and press that when they want to top up . That option is for buying a new card.
    You press the use card option underneath for topping up.

    Been using the card since day 1 and works in IT so I'd hope this isn't the case


  • #1439
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    MYOB wrote: »
    Been using the card since day 1 and works in IT so I'd hope this isn't the case

    To be honest, I've been using the TVMs for years and still find them a bit bemusing at times.


  • #1440
    Mr Simpson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,332 ✭✭✭Mr Simpson


    The amount of people who touch their card everywhere except the bit that says 'touch here' is unbelievable.


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  • #1441
    Captain Chaos
    Registered Users Posts: 11,174 ✭✭✭✭Captain Chaos


    Had a great one this evening. 4 times this year that Raheny station has been completely un manned and not one of the 4 tag off points at the stations were working. The two at the barriers were offline and the two platform points are vandalisied. I am fed up having to ring up for refunds all the time. Also why is one of the busiest DART stations on the north side un maned during peak hours. Not that it would have made a difference as all the tag locations were offline. Joke of a system. You could still tag on alright and some users manged to tag on again while trying to tag off and got charged the maximum fare twice.

    Howth Junction can be just as bad at times, basically had enough of Irish Rail at this stage and the fact they can't/won't maintain thier property due to cuts backs while screwing the customer.


This discussion has been closed.
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