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Sky broadband launches in Ireland

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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,046 ✭✭✭bealtine


    To all those who are being seduced by the bs of door to door salesmen and their rather unrealistic sales patter about broadband coming through the satellite, please read this piece on the IoffL website:

    http://irelandoffline.org/2011/09/satellite-is-not-really-broadband/


  • Registered Users Posts: 4 Matt_ie


    ... further to my earlier post re the nice Sky Rep ... I came across another thread here >>

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=80246834

    ...so could this perhaps be what the Rep is trying to pre-sell to me? Maybe it's not via the satellite dish at all... I'm in Dublin 11 area and she did say the "all in one" product won't be rolled out for a few months but I can book it now in advance for 25euro. Does this make more sense to anyone?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,046 ✭✭✭bealtine


    Matt_ie wrote: »
    ...


    ...so could this perhaps be what the Rep is trying to pre-sell to me?

    Why would anybody try to sell you a product that doesn't exist yet, that's just sharp practice. The BT thing is just a trial to see if the process works and to see how much Comreg mess the whole thing up, if past experience is anything to go by Comreg will make a complete and utter mess of the whole thing so it will never happen, just like the LLU fiasco that Comreg presided over...

    So in my opinion no is the answer


  • Registered Users Posts: 301 ✭✭VictorRomeo


    bealtine wrote: »
    To all those who are being seduced by the bs of door to door salesmen and their rather unrealistic sales patter about broadband coming through the satellite, please read this piece on the IoffL website:

    http://irelandoffline.org/2011/09/satellite-is-not-really-broadband/[/QUOTE]

    As someone who has in the past implemented internet access via satellite using VSAT and BGAN, I'd like to support this point. Satellite is great for delivering internet access to places where wires and other supporting infrastructure won't reach - like an oil rig, a ship on the ocean or a mine in the middle of Africa. It's basic and if you want anything approaching a couple of meg up and down uncontended, it costs a fortune. You can't avoid the latency though making it almost impossible for gaming, reliable streaming and ip communications.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4 Matt_ie


    thanks guys for the comments regarding the Sky 'satellite broadband' idea... the content is noted!!! However I'm curious to know if this was perhaps just one ill informed Sky rep or if others are trying this pitch elsewhere? It appears that I may not be the only one to be given this BS line? As I said I was skeptical from the start which is why I came looking for answers... but I don't doubt there are probably some even less technically minded UPC customers who might fall for this pitch... as they pretty much tried to convince me that this new Sky service (incl. broadband) was as good or better than my current UPC service and at a much cheaper price. So should this type of selling even be allowed???


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,230 ✭✭✭Solair


    Unless it's fibre-to-home, it's not as good as UPC.
    Even VDSL (fibre-to-kerb) isn't anywhere near UPC's top package.

    EuroDOCSIS 3.0 systems like UPC's can deliver well beyond 100mbit/s too with a bit of tweaking and if they need to keep ahead of the competition.

    Fair enough if they want to say it's cheap, cheerful, comes with lots of free stuff, but unless they're putting a fibre into your house, it's not better than a EuroDOCSIS 3.0 hybrid fibre-coax network like UPC or CableSurf down in Dungarvan.

    http://www.cablesurf.com/

    120mbit/s for 59 quid a month !!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,968 ✭✭✭aindriu80


    I am currently with Eircom and Sky at the moment at was reading about Sky coming to market via BT. There has been so much hassle with LLU I was wondering what other companies could offer price and speed wise with the current state of affairs.

    In the UK Sky has 3 packages each with the minimum Sky Line Rental (£14.50 a month). There is Sky Broadband Lite 2GB monthly usage allowance Free. Sky Broadband Unlimited £7.50. Sky Fibre Unlimited £20. I can't get the speeds?

    I was just wondering what can we expect from Sky ? I understand we still have the worlds most expensive line rental at €25.74. But if we got Sky Broadband Unlimited (at 8mb like what I get with Eircom) at anything close to the £7.50 it would work out €20 cheaper per month. I would move if possible ( i joined Eircom back in June)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,230 ✭✭✭Solair


    LLU prices were dropped pretty dramatically a while back.

    Smart Telecom has been showing what can be done there ..

    €29.99/month for 24mbit/s (including line rental and only in LLU areas) with a 350GB/month cap (and you can purchase reasonably priced upgrades to that)

    There probably isn't all that much advantage to selling customers slower speeds as they've serious backhaul capacity in their LLU areas, so just offer DSL maxed out makes as much sense as tiering it.

    Sky could probably do something similar, or below-cost sell it bundled with TV.

    Sky's service will be provided over BT Ireland's wholesale infrastructure i.e. LLU where BT have unbundled and Eircom Wholesale where it's not. BT will be providing the backhaul and managing the technical implementation of the product, but all the branding, support and product design will be at sky's end.

    BT Ireland claim to have LLU access to something like 1.1 million lines at this stage, that's a LOT of exchanges where they already have their own equipment. So, it's clearly becoming worthwhile.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,968 ✭✭✭aindriu80


    €29.99 month is quite good but the only thing is the lack of unbundling of exchanges. I don't think Smart is in my area.

    If Sky can do anything better than €52.00/month for 8mb unlimited it would do wonders for broadband in Ireland as it would be proper competition. It wouldn't be hard tbh.

    I just wonder when you can drop out of an Eircom contract if Sky come up with a decent range of broadband products. Any idea when Sky will be ready ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Smart doesn't exist. Hasn't for some while. Their pricing model was to get customer base, they never made money and in the end Digiweb got any assets they had after the shutters went up. I think their strategy was to get bought like Esat.

    BT obviously wasn't that optimistic as they dumped almost all their retail business on Vodafone.

    Sky is in it just to compete with UPC on Pay TV. So if you have Pay TV (which is overpriced and people spend 92% of their time watching the free channels and the market is saturated) you'll get DSL at cost or a slight loss for Sky. This thus adds nothing of value for the ordinary potential Broadband user as it's adding no infrastructure and deals only for Pay TV customers. That market is at Saturation. Sky can only hope to stop losing customers to UPC.

    But if you want Video on Demand and better than on average 4Mbps, and only 10% get more than 8Mbps on DSL, then UPC offers real VOD and 30Mbps to 50Mbps ENTRY level.
    If you only want basic pay TV better to have Sky just for TV (as you still get UK TV if you cancel) and UPC if available for BB. If you cancel UPC TV you get basically no TV (maybe some poor quality analogue channels that are perfect on Aerial or Dish for free).

    FTA Satellite gives 45+ decent channels and an Aerial gives about six and a half digital channels (RTE2 part time HD, TV3 and TG4 HD later).

    So this is "forced" on Sky. It's no biggie for the Irish Consumer. It will be a pointless product unless you have Sky Pay TV, which costs now €33 a month, and 92% of the viewing is available free without a sub. The Advertising is very weasely.

    Don't forget that 24Mbps DSL is on average 4Mbps, and only about 10% get more than 8Mbps on DSL due to line length and crosstalk


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,230 ✭✭✭Solair


    Well, they might be for a lot of areas as BT's LLU rollout is much wider than Smart.

    http://www.digitaltimes.ie/business-and-technology/bt-ireland-cashes-in-as-demand-for-high-speed-broadband-increases/

    Bear in mind though that the largest 60 exchanges or so also represent most of the lines Ireland i.e. all the urban and suburban areas in Dublin, Cork, Galway, Limerick, Waterford and some major towns.

    So, if you're in a rural area or on a very small exchange or just one that BT haven't reached, you would be stuck on eircom wholesale.

    That being said, the competition may force eircom's prices down. They're not really going to be able to keep charging those rates and compete with UPC, Sky and Vodafone as well as Smart and the FWA players some of which are improving rapidly.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,968 ✭✭✭aindriu80


    well as far as i know UPC is only around Dublin. I would love to get rid of Eircom and stick with with 1 company for tv and internet as it is bound to work out cheaper.

    I didn't know what the 24mbps DSL speeds was like but I have 8mb with Eircom and it is fine for gaming and downloads even if it comes in . I don't need a faster connection as i just dont have the time to watch any more tv. I wonder what sky can come up with. It could be like 1mb or something.

    Putting something like Sky Pay TV along with it is just annoying. It has to be competitive but not identical to Eircom


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,230 ✭✭✭Solair


    aindriu80 wrote: »
    well as far as i know UPC is only around Dublin.

    UPC is Dublin, Cork, Galway, Limerick, Waterford, and quite a lot of major towns too.

    Their map from 2009 - obviously it may have improved since then.

    All Irish cities have been cabled for decades, as have a lot of the towns on that map.

    If you've a UPC-related question : UPC Boards.ie Forum is probably the best place to ask about service availability.

    As for Sky broadband, if you're struggling to get DSL with eircom, Vodafone etc, then it's unlikely to be technologically any different. The price might be better though.
    watty wrote: »
    Smart doesn't exist. Hasn't for some while. Their pricing model was to get customer base, they never made money and in the end Digiweb got any assets they had after the shutters went up. I think their strategy was to get bought like Esat.

    Well, the company disappeared, but the brand most definitely still exists. Digiweb market LLU (Unbundled) DSL as Smart and wholesale/bitstream (over eircom's network) products as Digiweb DSL.

    Their DSL LLU product is here : http://www.smarttelecom.ie/index.aspx

    For whatever reason, they never integrated the brand or the LLU products into Digiweb. Even the invoices are Smart Telecom branded.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,265 ✭✭✭RangeR


    Solair wrote: »
    For whatever reason, they never integrated the brand or the LLU products into Digiweb. Even the invoices are Smart Telecom branded.

    Most [All?] of their good guys left after the take over. Harmony is never there after a take over.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,968 ✭✭✭aindriu80


    Solair wrote: »
    As for Sky broadband, if you're struggling to get DSL with eircom, Vodafone etc, then it's unlikely to be technologically any different. The price might be better though.

    The Eircom line I have is fine. Its the price that I think is high. I am on the 8mb no cap and get the following which I'm happy with :

    2190934989.png

    I was checking out the Sky UK website and if I got similar speeds to what I have now for the price they pay I would be a lot happier. Sky should be able to match the speed reliability and price with BT, its not that fast


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,659 ✭✭✭✭dahamsta


    Woeful upload there, yikes!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,968 ✭✭✭aindriu80


    I know but I am mostly downloading and I rarely notice it


  • Site Banned Posts: 957 ✭✭✭leeomurchu


    http://www.speedtest.net/result/2191049796.png

    Eircoms broadband is pants why am I with them again :eek::confused:


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,968 ✭✭✭aindriu80


    my contract with Eircom is up but I have not heard from Sky after registering. They said they would have a broadband product by year end, its September and they should be at least be posting likely speeds/price


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,046 ✭✭✭bealtine


    aindriu80 wrote: »
    my contract with Eircom is up but I have not heard from Sky after registering. They said they would have a broadband product by year end, its September and they should be at least be posting likely speeds/price

    Be patient and expect nothing more than you already have...from a broadband perspective anyway


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  • Registered Users Posts: 521 ✭✭✭steps_3314


    I have Vodafone broadband at home. It works well to be honest and the cost is 40 euros a months without ever going over 43 (if we make calls outside the package)

    Anyhow i am not in a contract as far as i Understand. Just this morning got a call from Vodafone asking if I was interested in moving to their Broadband only package which is a 24 MB package and 10 euros less. I would have signed up only for the fact that it is an 18 month contract.

    So I am thinking this is a strategic move on the back of the sky announcement in July. They most likely feel they will lose 1000's of customers to Sky providing Sky can provide a great service at a great price.

    Any thoughts on this.

    If the contract with Vodafone was 1 years I would have signed up and I explained this to the caller. He said he does not understand why the contract was 18 months as they are usually just 12 months.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭maynooth_rules


    steps_3314 wrote: »
    I have Vodafone broadband at home. It works well to be honest and the cost is 40 euros a months without ever going over 43 (if we make calls outside the package)

    Anyhow i am not in a contract as far as i Understand. Just this morning got a call from Vodafone asking if I was interested in moving to their Broadband only package which is a 24 MB package and 10 euros less. I would have signed up only for the fact that it is an 18 month contract.

    So I am thinking this is a strategic move on the back of the sky announcement in July. They most likely feel they will lose 1000's of customers to Sky providing Sky can provide a great service at a great price.

    Any thoughts on this.

    If the contract with Vodafone was 1 years I would have signed up and I explained this to the caller. He said he does not understand why the contract was 18 months as they are usually just 12 months.

    I had the same worry when vodafone rang this morning and voived it that I wasnt happy signing for 18 months rather than 12. I still was talked into the 18 month contract though. Glad not to be paying for a phone I dont need and i really cant see Sky being much cheaper unless you are with Sky TV, which im not.


  • Registered Users Posts: 521 ✭✭✭steps_3314


    It's a good deal alright...30 euros for a 24MB line including line rental.

    I am a sky customer (full package) so might hold off a bit longer


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭maynooth_rules


    steps_3314 wrote: »
    It's a good deal alright...30 euros for a 24MB line including line rental.

    I am a sky customer (full package) so might hold off a bit longer

    I can only get 12 mb max in my area :mad:. The only small issue is the 15gb limit. I am usually around the 13-14 gb mark after a month so i have to be careful


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,230 ✭✭✭Solair


    The problem is that it renders voip and other services useless if you've alow uploads and high pings. For anyone working from home or small businesses dependent on it, it means uploading large documents becomes painfully slow too and it renders cloud services useless.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    steps_3314 wrote: »
    30 euros for a[n UP TO] 24MB line including line rental.

    Less than 5 to 10% of lines can get that even if the exchange is enabled for it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,907 ✭✭✭✭Kristopherus


    aindriu80 wrote: »
    my contract with Eircom is up but I have not heard from Sky after registering. They said they would have a broadband product by year end, its September and they should be at least be posting likely speeds/price

    I was talking to a $ky rep the other day & I asked about their broadband roll-out. She said it will be introduced in early Nov. And existing $ky customers will be getting letters from mid-Oct.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,968 ✭✭✭aindriu80


    steps_3314 wrote: »
    I have Vodafone broadband at home. It works well to be honest and the cost is 40 euros a months without ever going over 43 (if we make calls outside the package)

    Anyhow i am not in a contract as far as i Understand. Just this morning got a call from Vodafone asking if I was interested in moving to their Broadband only package which is a 24 MB package and 10 euros less. I would have signed up only for the fact that it is an 18 month contract.

    i don't see that on the vodafone website ? You were offered a 24mb package for €10 less than the €40 you spend each month ? Is there a low cap ?


    I was talking to a $ky rep the other day & I asked about their broadband roll-out. She said it will be introduced in early Nov. And existing $ky customers will be getting letters from mid-Oct.
    Awesome ! I was wondering what their plans and services would be.

    Broadband is still too expensive in this country and hopefully at some stage price can be broken


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,230 ✭✭✭Solair


    watty wrote: »
    Less than 5 to 10% of lines can get that even if the exchange is enabled for it.

    That's not unique to eircom though. It's just the nature of the tech. You'd need to be almost living IN the exchange to get 24mbit/s on ADSL2+


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭maynooth_rules


    i don't see that on the vodafone website ? You were offered a 24mb package for €10 less than the €40 you spend each month ? Is there a low cap ?
    The cap is 15 gb. You can get something like another 100gb for 4 euro i believe

    http://www.vodafone.ie/offers/broadband-max/


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