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my foot is hanging off - do you think mushroom paste will fix it

  • 28-04-2012 11:16pm
    #1
    opinion guy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,001 ✭✭✭✭


    :D

    Gotcha mods.

    But seriously - what is it with all these threads in last few weeks ? Look at the Health Sciences page - the whole thing is personal medical enquiries.
    Is the recession stopping people going to their doctors ?


«13

Comments

  • #2
    sam34
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,073 ✭✭✭sam34


    I was thinking about this earlier. I've closed so many threads in the last week particularly. some of the closures have been followed by PMs saying "it wasn't really medical advice/you're a Nazi/why did you infract me/I didn't know/other ridiculous excuse" (the best I've had in my time as a mod here has been that I apparently dont care about posters getting dodgy advice or the legal ramifications for the site-owners, but rather I just am trying to keep all the country's GP's in their jobs by making sure people attend them! that little gem was thrown at me by one particular bitter individual who is now, unsurprisingly, site-banned. )

    I can't see how we can make it any clearer than what it is already. it's in the charter, has it's own sticky AND is in CAPITAL letters on the front page. short of getting some sort of alarm bells or flashing lights, I don't know what we can do.


    it's actually scary that so many people think this is acceptable and safe.


  • #3
    Nonoperational
    Registered Users Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭Nonoperational


    It's not a bit surprising to be honest. People will accept advice from the village idiot as Gospel before they'd get a proper opinion.


  • #4
    Jessibelle
    Registered Users Posts: 1,759 ✭✭✭Jessibelle


    I'd suspect it's a combination of people not having the cash anymore, seeing a forum called 'health' and knowing that health professionals from all walks post here, and possibly not seeing what they're asking as specifically medical advice, kind of like someone ringing the dr's surgery and asking for advice over the phone. I don't understand it myself, I'd run a mile from an internet diagnosis, but i can see the attitude that could lead to it alright.


  • #5
    MrCreosote
    Registered Users Posts: 2,320 ✭✭✭MrCreosote


    Can the threads be fully deleted? The first page is looking awfully cluttered with them.


  • #6
    opinion guy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,001 ✭✭✭✭opinion guy


    sam34 wrote: »
    I was thinking about this earlier. I've closed so many threads in the last week particularly. some of the closures have been followed by PMs saying "it wasn't really medical advice/you're a Nazi/why did you infract me/I didn't know/other ridiculous excuse" (the best I've had in my time as a mod here has been that I apparently dont care about posters getting dodgy advice or the legal ramifications for the site-owners, but rather I just am trying to keep all the country's GP's in their jobs by making sure people attend them! that little gem was thrown at me by one particular bitter individual who is now, unsurprisingly, site-banned. )
    Ah but sure the poor Gp's would have nothin to do without you helpin them out....:pac:
    I can't see how we can make it any clearer than what it is already. it's in the charter, has it's own sticky AND is in CAPITAL letters on the front page. short of getting some sort of alarm bells or flashing lights, I don't know what we can do.

    Dare I say it - a really annoying pop-up when someone clicks on the forum ?? You no the type - with music, flashing red and yellow bars for no reason, people doing the can-can.
    it's actually scary that so many people think this is acceptable and safe.

    Yeah it is kind of shocking sometimes.

    Jessibelle wrote:
    I'd suspect it's a combination of people not having the cash anymore, seeing a forum called 'health' and knowing that health professionals from all walks post here, and possibly not seeing what they're asking as specifically medical advice, kind of like someone ringing the dr's surgery and asking for advice over the phone. I don't understand it myself, I'd run a mile from an internet diagnosis, but i can see the attitude that could lead to it alright.

    I don't know - I've noticed it more and more on other forums also - the Health & Fitness people seem to be getting it lately and even.....shudder.....After Hours has has its fair share lately. Tis an epidemic I tells ya


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  • #7
    DesperateDan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,582 ✭✭✭DesperateDan


    If I have a problem though I must say the first thing I would do is google it :o


  • #8
    Vorsprung
    Registered Users Posts: 2,814 ✭✭✭Vorsprung


    Google has been shown to get it right a lot of the time too!

    http://www.bmj.com/content/333/7579/1143.abstract


  • #9
    opinion guy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,001 ✭✭✭✭opinion guy


    randomers on boards =/= googling it


  • #10
    maninasia
    Registered Users Posts: 4,615 ✭✭✭maninasia


    It's called people looking for different ideas and opinions. It's called self education.
    Since there are no debates on health policy or on anything substantial here it would look very blank indeed without them.
    Try taking your medical caps off and looking at it from a different perspective.

    And yes many people cannot afford to go to a doctor, so what should they do?


  • #11
    Biologic
    Registered Users Posts: 383 ✭✭Biologic


    maninasia wrote: »
    It's called people looking for different ideas and opinions. It's called self education.
    Self education in medicine is dangerous (in most situations), as are unqualified opinions. But there's very little point in saying this to you. If I posted that the earth is round, you'd rant on about how it's actually shaped like a pretzel.
    maninasia wrote: »
    And yes many people cannot afford to go to a doctor, so what should they do?
    According to you, they should all go live in Taiwan. Apparently that place has the worlds best health service where doctors can deal with every issue in under 3 minutes. And the best part is, it doesn't cost anyone any money!


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  • #12
    Delancey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,451 ✭✭✭Delancey


    I have to say that I was on this forum a few days ago for the first time in a while and I was amazed at the number of locked threads started by folks seeking medical advice.
    It is well flagged and I really can't see what else can be done to discourage it , a pop-up is an idea but even if technically feasible I could see objections about it being contrary to the boards.ie ' ethos '.


  • #13
    Tree
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,677 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tree


    Can I recommend the OP to look for a book called Vegetable Glue by Susan Chandler. (it's very very good, and addresses the mushroom paste to repair feet issue).

    On the why ask for advice on a message forum, I honeslty have no idea why, unless you were looking for information to clear up some words you didnt understand. Looking for "my foot is at a wonky angle is it broken" advice is perplexing. Yes a doctor is expensive, but you'll end up going there anyway for definitive opinion/script/referral, so why not befriend your local doc.

    I have googled for medical information in my time, but more for additional clarity on a genuine diagnosis (or the mad side effects/contraindications on a bottle of cough mixture).

    But anyway, Vegetable Glue, most excellent, check out your local bookshop.


  • #14
    maninasia
    Registered Users Posts: 4,615 ✭✭✭maninasia


    Biologic wrote: »
    Self education in medicine is dangerous (in most situations), as are unqualified opinions. But there's very little point in saying this to you. If I posted that the earth is round, you'd rant on about how it's actually shaped like a pretzel.
    People have the capacity to learn and inform themselves. It is not one or the other as you falsely seem to be presenting the case. There is obviously a huge need and wish there in the community for people to learn more about their own bodies and their own health.
    According to you, they should all go live in Taiwan. Apparently that place has the worlds best health service where doctors can deal with every issue in under 3 minutes. And the best part is, it doesn't cost anyone any money

    No, this is according to you. You are making yourself look very small now with these belittling comments of a place and system you know next to nothing about.

    You also completely avoided the topic at hand, nice one. As I stated, what is left in this forum if you remove all these requests, not a whole lot but a pretty blank canvas. So you are not discussing medical issues and you are not discussing medical policies or systems, what are you discussing here, what's for lunch :)?


  • #15
    calfmuscle
    Registered Users Posts: 746 ✭✭✭calfmuscle


    maninasia wrote: »
    And yes many people cannot afford to go to a doctor, so what should they do?

    Apply for a medical card. . . . . . . . .


  • #16
    locum-motion
    Registered Users Posts: 5,143 ✭✭✭locum-motion


    One might nearly understand posters who ask for advice for something quite trivial. Nearly. Almost. Not quite. But nearly.

    What I really can't understand are the ones who ask about serious problems.

    I mean, a couple of weeks ago, somebody asked "Do I have HIV?", FFS!


  • #17
    calfmuscle
    Registered Users Posts: 746 ✭✭✭calfmuscle


    locum-motion wrote: »
    One might nearly understand posters who ask for advice for something quite trivial. Nearly. Almost. Not quite. But nearly.

    What I really can't understand are the ones who ask about serious problems.

    I mean, a couple of weeks ago, somebody asked "Do I have HIV?", FFS!

    Ah to be fair people with no medical knowledge who are worried and stressed will look for comfort from any source.


  • #18
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,978 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    This should be a private forum probably.


  • #19
    calfmuscle
    Registered Users Posts: 746 ✭✭✭calfmuscle


    mike65 wrote: »
    This should be a private forum probably.

    What would be the inclusion criteria?


  • #20
    Thoie
    Registered Users Posts: 6,344 ✭✭✭Thoie


    I think it's indicative of people thinking of Boards (and the internet in general) as an addition to/replacement for family/friends conversations.

    For example if you say to your friends "I always get hiccoughs after eating bread/drinking fizzy drinks - is that normal?", your family/friends will most likely say "Yes, you halfwit" or "No, that's never happened to anyone else, you should go to the doctor."

    People worry about medical issues, but feel they may be being ridiculous, or that maybe it's perfectly normal to feel x after doing y. Some people are in a position that taking time off work, and spending money to see a GP only to be told "It's a midge bite, get over it" is difficult.

    It's natural for people to get a few opinions from friends about some of these kinds of things. I think the mistake they're making is considering Boards as yet another "friend" that you can ask. They're used to the idea that you can ask people for opinions on "Should I buy this car?", "Are many people going to this concert?" and "Which phone is better?". IRL they'd ask the same friends "What do you think of this car?" and "Does this itchy spot look funny to you?". On Boards because there are specific Motors and Health areas, they try to put their questions into the "appropriate" area.


  • #21
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,978 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    calfmuscle wrote: »
    What would be the inclusion criteria?

    be a health professional or studying for same.


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  • #22
    opinion guy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,001 ✭✭✭✭opinion guy


    mike65 wrote: »
    be a health professional or studying for same.

    How do you prove that on a quasi-anonymous internet forum ?


  • #23
    calfmuscle
    Registered Users Posts: 746 ✭✭✭calfmuscle


    mike65 wrote: »
    be a health professional or studying for same.

    Oh that could start an argument, would you define health professionals only as those under the medical/health and social care councils.

    I know physical therapist's, osteopath's etc class themselves as health professionals.


  • #24
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,978 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    That's true I guess.


  • #25
    opinion guy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,001 ✭✭✭✭opinion guy


    Have an entrance exam ????:pac:


  • #26
    calfmuscle
    Registered Users Posts: 746 ✭✭✭calfmuscle


    opinion guy wrote: »
    Have an entrance exam ????:pac:

    Oh I like this or an interview process with the mods via skype!
    The first question can be "what is your opinion on the use of homoeopathy in health care" :pac:


  • #27
    Biologic
    Registered Users Posts: 383 ✭✭Biologic


    maninasia wrote: »
    People have the capacity to learn and inform themselves. It is not one or the other as you falsely seem to be presenting the case. There is obviously a huge need and wish there in the community for people to learn more about their own bodies and their own health.



    No, this is according to you. You are making yourself look very small now with these belittling comments of a place and system you know next to nothing about.

    You also completely avoided the topic at hand, nice one. As I stated, what is left in this forum if you remove all these requests, not a whole lot but a pretty blank canvas. So you are not discussing medical issues and you are not discussing medical policies or systems, what are you discussing here, what's for lunch :)?

    I haven't avoided the topic, you've just created one that never existed. We were never talking about people posting harmless questions relating to general health. This is a topic about people looking to randomers on the internet for a diagnosis/treatment options/etc. There's a distinct line between someone asking "what are the risk factors for development of heart disease?" and "I've had a fever for 3 weeks, will paracetamol and rest cure it?". It would be easy to tell the second guy he has the flu, but you don't know if it's actually something more sinister, like a lymphoma. And by answering his question you've stopped him seeking qualified treatment. It's worrying that you can't see the difference.
    As regards "belittling comments on things you know nothing about", that's what you've been doing towards the healthcare community on this board for the past 18 months. I'm merely stooping to your level. Dirty me.
    maninasia wrote: »
    what is left in this forum if you remove all these requests, not a whole lot but a pretty blank canvas. So you are not discussing medical issues and you are not discussing medical policies or systems, what are you discussing here, what's for lunch :)?
    It doesn't matter what is left, they are invalid requests. You think we should allow threads which could give out damaging medical advice just for the sake of livening up an internet forum?


  • #28
    maninasia
    Registered Users Posts: 4,615 ✭✭✭maninasia


    I like the way you frame it, me against the medical community. It's a not so subtle device. I'm sure the medical community has more diverse views than your own :). You keep wanting to attack the man not the message.

    Your problem is much like trying to use a rubber stopper in the middle of a dam to hold back the flooding waters. You just don't get it, people are going to seek out advice and opinions and experience from others whether you like it or not.

    It's interesting that the experiences of other people with similar conditions don't seem to come into it here. Dealing with a health problem is more complicated than getting a diagnosis. It is understanding that others have gone though similar issues, understanding how to navigate the health system, advice on where to go or who to ask, expenses and fees and insurance, hope and optimism, it's not just wanting to talk to professionals , they can indeed do that by waking into a doctors office if they can afford it or can line up an appointment in the near future. Some can't though. That really should be recognized here.

    When people post here they are trying to learn more about their condition and I would bet that they would get pushed to deal with a medical issue more seriously or in a more optimum way than if they just shrug it off or work of their own limited knowledge.
    There will be always be the caveat that you should go and get checked out by professionals, so again and that can be made explicitly clear.


  • #29
    roro1neil0
    Registered Users Posts: 339 ✭✭roro1neil0


    I really don't know what to make of this thread. Seems to be only two trains of thought, "we are health professionals, everyone else is stupid and shouldn't be able to talk about individual health problems". Just the stench of elitism and smugness is nauseating. Especially as no one on this thread is an actual doctor except for one and that person is the furthest you can be from emergency medicine you can get without retiring.

    The other is just trying to overcome that prevailing culture.

    How come there is a complete lack of common sense to it?
    Poster 1 wrote:
    I have this itchy foot, for about 3 weeks, is there anything i can do about it?

    If you asked this down your local gym someone would say you probably have Athlete's foot and should go to the chemist and get some cream or powder.
    If you asked your mother the same thing you'd get the same answer. In both instances, there is no presumption of unlicensed medical advice. Why is it different on this forum?

    Can someone provide some links to evidence that shows that people with serious illnesses had their recoveries seriously repressed by seeking medical advice on the internet?

    Btw there is just as many 'seeking medical advice' on the health and fitness forum and those threads rarely get locked.

    Just seems to be an overriding sense of if you ask a question on this forum, it automatically means you are not getting professional advise and will definitely die prematurely. Just nonsense and scaremongering.


  • #30
    Biologic
    Registered Users Posts: 383 ✭✭Biologic


    maninasia wrote: »
    You keep wanting to attack the man not the message.
    My last post made a very clear argument that giving out medical advice online is wrong and shouldn't be allowed just to boost forum numbers. That's me attacking the message.
    maninasia wrote: »
    You just don't get it, people are going to seek out advice and opinions and experience from others whether you like it or not.
    Great, the classic "if I don't do it, someone else will" approach. People are going to get drugs from others whether I like it or not too. That doesn't mean you'll see me involved any time soon.

    maninasia wrote: »
    It's interesting that the experiences of other people with similar conditions don't seem to come into it here. Dealing with a health problem is more complicated than getting a diagnosis. It is understanding that others have gone though similar issues, understanding how to navigate the health system, advice on where to go or who to ask, expenses and fees and insurance, hope and optimism, it's not just wanting to talk to professionals , they can indeed do that by waking into a doctors office if they can afford it or can line up an appointment in the near future. Some can't though. That really should be recognized here.
    I agree with you here completely, but it's not really personal medical advice. People ask questions about expenses/insurance here occasionally, and plenty of disease sufferers share experiences on the long term illness forum. It's not that I think posters are incapable of educating themselves on their own illness (in fact, many patients I've met know more about their diseases than I ever will), it's just that I don't think an internet forum is an appropriate place for initially addressing a problem.


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  • #31
    calfmuscle
    Registered Users Posts: 746 ✭✭✭calfmuscle


    roro1neil0 wrote: »
    I really don't know what to make of this thread. Seems to be only two trains of thought, "we are health professionals, everyone else is stupid and shouldn't be able to talk about individual health problems".
    That's ridiculous, just look at all the advice and support the threads in long term illness provide. However the advice that people usually look for in here is when the condition is acute an there is no diagnosis as of yet.
    roro1neil0 wrote: »
    Can someone provide some links to evidence that shows that people with serious illnesses had their recoveries seriously repressed by seeking medical advice on the internet?

    Steve jobs is probably the most famous example.
    roro1neil0 wrote: »
    How come there is a complete lack of common sense to it?

    If you asked this down your local gym someone would say you probably have Athlete's foot and should go to the chemist and get some cream or powder.
    If you asked your mother the same thing you'd get the same answer. In both instances, there is no presumption of unlicensed medical advice. Why is it different on this forum?

    Btw there is just as many 'seeking medical advice' on the health and fitness forum and those threads rarely get locked

    This is a health science's forum, therefore the lay person may pay more head to the advice given than from some guy down the gym. As has been pointed out that is dangerous as even though it is a health sciences forum there is no way of confirming the posters credentials.

    Further to that, there is nothing we can do about people accepting advice from non medically trained people. However it should not be encouraged as anyone here that works in healthcare, especially anyone that carries out patients assessments (physio's, doctors, psychologists) will know that the number of patients who come in convinced they have XYZ because biddy down the road had something similar is massive! Patient education is a huge part of treatment/management.
    If a poster comes on here complaining of low back pain and pins and needles around the groin and I give them a strengthening program with out assessing if they have signs of caudia equina impingement the person is at risk of being left incontinent for life. This is just one example of thousands of reasons its a bad idea!


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