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New DIT Campus - Grangegorman

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Comments

  • #122
    spacetweek
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,951 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    aodhan2 wrote: »
    the contracts were awarded on the pretense of providing 25% employment to local residents.
    Might be easier said than done.


  • #123
    Arbutus
    Registered Users Posts: 5 ✭Arbutus


    aodhan2 wrote: »
    Did anyone reading this thread attend the meeting in the last few days where local residents met with builders and developers? I belive the contracts were awarded on the pretense of providing 25% employment to local residents. Apparently a tyrone builder has the contract and he is to use all his own workers. Im looking to find info regarding this and who is answerable,but if true its a disgrace .

    The meeting held on 30th April was to introduce the Phase 1 demolitions contractor to the local community and discuss this contract only. At the meeting the Grangegorman Local Employment Charter was discussed, which aims at 25% local employment regarding new positions for any contract. All contractors come with a core staff but new positions arise as part of the contract. The Employment Charter states that the Contractor will advertise all new positions with the Local Employment Service and will aim to achieve 25% local employment for new positions.

    Obviously with the Grangegorman project being such a large development local people are anxious to see local jobs being created. This is a key aim of the project but the Development Agency must also work within European procurement and competition law in trying to achieve this.

    The Employment Charter is at http://www.ggda.ie/reports.html


  • #124
    nowecant
    Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭nowecant


    In case no one has seen it here is a video of what the proposed Broadstone Gate will look like



  • #125
    TheBandicoot
    Closed Accounts Posts: 879 ✭✭✭TheBandicoot


    Is the bridge passed under around the :40 mark the access road to Broadstone bus depot? That's unfortunate, in reality that will mar the area somewhat, big diesel buses towering over you, or idling waiting to get in.


  • #126
    nowecant
    Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭nowecant


    TheBandicoot wrote: »
    Is the bridge passed under around the :40 mark the access road to Broadstone bus depot? That's unfortunate, in reality that will mar the area somewhat, big diesel buses towering over you, or idling waiting to get in.


    From my reading of the plans it is to allow Bus Eireann who occupy the northern part of the depot access to the southern part (occupied by Dublin bus) and then to exit out to the road.

    AFAIK this is not envisioned as a long term solution, and it is hoped that eventually other uses may be sound for these two depots, possibly even as a stage two to the campus. I remember reading somewhere that the bridge was to be constructed in such a way as to make it easy to disassemble in future.

    If you take a look at all of the plans and pictures of the Grangegorman development they show buildings on both of these sites.


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  • #127
    nowecant
    Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭nowecant


    Here are some links to pics of the Broadstone gate entrance i posted a while back showing a concept for the temporary option and the long term plans
    nowecant wrote: »

    [IMG][/img]bg1ej.th.jpg

    [IMG][/img]bg2d.th.jpg


  • #128
    Tombo2001
    Registered Users Posts: 6,457 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    Would be interested to know what people think on what this will mean for neighbouring areas....

    Do folks think that Phibsborough Cabra or Stoneybatter will change in any major way because of this? In terms of new business, amenities etc.....

    My thinking is: I look at DCU......and i think about Collins Avenue, North Glasnevin etc.....and I try to see what difference it has made to the local area......and the answer as far as I can see is Sweet FA......


  • #129
    Tombo2001
    Registered Users Posts: 6,457 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    nowecant wrote: »
    Here are some links to pics of the Broadstone gate entrance i posted a while back showing a concept for the temporary option and the long term plans


    What are the big glass buildings in the video and in that photo, just behind the train stop?

    Is that part of the college? I thought the college was going to be within the current site of Grangegorman.....


  • #130
    TheBandicoot
    Closed Accounts Posts: 879 ✭✭✭TheBandicoot


    nowecant wrote: »
    From my reading of the plans it is to allow Bus Eireann who occupy the northern part of the depot access to the southern part (occupied by Dublin bus) and then to exit out to the road.

    AFAIK this is not envisioned as a long term solution, and it is hoped that eventually other uses may be sound for these two depots, possibly even as a stage two to the campus. I remember reading somewhere that the bridge was to be constructed in such a way as to make it easy to disassemble in future.

    If you take a look at all of the plans and pictures of the Grangegorman development they show buildings on both of these sites.

    Fair enough,looking at the BXD plans, this is the elevation that will be built starting in the next few weeks, BXD is definitely going ahead at this stage.

    9ZOMBSo.png


  • #131
    nowecant
    Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭nowecant


    Tombo2001 wrote: »
    What are the big glass buildings in the video and in that photo, just behind the train stop?

    Is that part of the college? I thought the college was going to be within the current site of Grangegorman.....

    All the current plans are for inside the existing Grangegorman campus.

    However some of the plans and videos do show additional buildings on the two bus garages. It is possible that these have just been added to make the images look better but i believe (from all the information available) that the eventual aim is for both the garages to move to another green field location outside the city so that these two sites can be developed as part of the campus. (Hopefully) The old train station would make an excellent concert venue / theatre similar to the Helix in DCU. Some on campus accommodation would also make a serious difference to the college and to the area.

    As for the difference DIT will make to the area i think it will be significant and for the better. Unlike DCU this is a city centre campus where there are a large range of local amenities already available. Its a short walk from the city and i believe that it will have a good active social scene. The college will also provide a lot of employment and opportunities.


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  • #132
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,419 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    There's a scale model and large maps of the broad stone gate in the atrium of DCC civic offices. It's a current Part 8 application IIRC.


  • #133
    nowecant
    Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭nowecant


    An idea of what the new Broadstone Luas stop (which is pretty much part of the Broadstone gate) is meant to look like. Work on this is meant to be commencing this morning. However that has been some recent trouble in moving the Maxoil garage. More on the topic over at the Luas thread

    Broadstone_1.jpg


  • #134
    petronius
    Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭petronius


    I think the DIT should move to a single venue - and grangegorman is fine, pity originally when setting up NIHE/DCU they didnt merge them all into one which was the NIHE's original remit.
    Cost is a major issue - i often think the CDVEC (or whatever its rebranded as) and DIT moved up towards university status and education and away from its trades and certificates etc. which may not have been the great thing it seemed before the fas fiasco.
    The unified campus should result in reduced admin costs over a varied campus the DIT and CDVEC is a massive expense on the tax payer and should look at reducing costs being more efficient and commercialising the new campus with private funding centralising admin should help so - however i fear it wont


  • #135
    nowecant
    Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭nowecant


    Four years before less then half of DIT students can call Grangegorman home.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/developers-sought-for-200-million-dit-campus-at-grangegorman-1.1511290

    Developers sought for €200 million DIT campus at Grangegorman
    Dublin Institute of Technology is to move to central campus from 2017
    The National Development Finance Agency is looking for a developer to build a €200 million campus at Grangegorman for the Dublin Institute of Technology.
    More than a decade after plans for a centralised campus for the largest third-level institution in the State were first announced, the agency has given notice of its intention to begin a public-private partnership process and is asking developers to lodge expressions of interest.
    The DIT currently is spread throughout the city centre on 39 separate sites. With 20,000 full- and part-time students, it accounts for close to 10 per cent of all students in higher education in Ireland.
    The move to the 50-acre site on part of the former St Brendan’s Hospital grounds is happening in stages and is due to be completed by 2020.
    The PPP contract will be for the design, building, finance and maintenance of two “quads” to accommodate 15 existing teaching schools of the institute.
    The Central Quad, at about 34,000sq m of internal space, will accommodate about 6,400 students and 450 staff. It will house the schools of science, engineering, maths, computing, culinary arts and hospitality management and will have specialist areas including laboratories, professional kitchens, training restaurants, workshops, teaching space and staff offices.

    Creative industries
    The East Quad will be about half the size, with 16,000sq m of space for 3,100 students and 250 staff. It has been designated as the creative and cultural industries quad and will accommodate the schools of music, media, languages, social science and law, and art, design and printing.
    The facilities will provide specialist areas such as performance spaces, media and computer rooms, musical practice and rehearsal rooms, art and design studios, workshops, teaching spaces, and staff offices.
    The current plan is to have up to half of the 20,000 students on campus by 2017, when it is expected to be served by the new cross-city Luas line.
    Interested developers will be invited to an information day on September 9th, but contracts are unlikely to be awarded until mid-2015.
    Plans for the site were first put forward in the late 1990s. At the time it was thought much of the project could be funded by selling off DIT colleges but the downturn in property prices forced the institute to look to the exchequer for initial funding.

    Severe setback
    The DIT’s plans suffered a setback in November 2011 when it was one of the major projects, along with Metro North, to lose the commitment of Government funding.
    However, Michael Hand, the chief executive of the Grangegorman Development Agency, said at the time the development would still go ahead.
    The project got a boost in May last year when it received permission from An Bord Pleanála.
    Two months later it was announced by Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform Brendan Howlin as the “flagship” project of the Government’s €2.25 billion infrastructure stimulus package.


  • #136
    nowecant
    Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭nowecant


    In case anyone wants to know how the Central and Eastern Quads fit into the overall development you can see them on a map on the GGDA Facebook page here https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151365820491413&set=a.10151365820471413.527378.382314786412&type=1&theater

    The Environmental Health Science Building is meant to be starting construction soon if it has not already as it is meant to be open by 2015


  • #137
    petronius
    Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭petronius


    Of course the plan looks impressive.
    However i fear the cost will spiral
    I like the idea that there is an entrance from Broadstone, I think its proximity to the Kings Inns maybe a chance of cooperation with the DIT law school.

    I agree such developments dont necessarily deliver benefits to the local area - you may argue has ballymun benefited from DCU, does Pearse Street benefit from Trinity etc.

    However I contend that there is benefits to be had from location of a 3rd level institute in an area. Of course there is the benefit of extra commerce, shops, cafes, and pubs do well, accommodation prices go up around the area, better public transport(BXD line), employment opportunities in the development and due to increased business.

    Community involvement has to be considered - outreach progammes, community use of facilities for local clubs, arts groups etc.


  • #138
    nowecant
    Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭nowecant


    Not good.

    This could seriously delay both the broadstone gate and the Luas line

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0404/606784-maxol-considers-legal-action-over-dublin-site/

    Maxol considers legal action in dispute over Dublin site

    Maxol Oil Company is considering legal action in a dispute over a one acre site in the North of Dublin that has threatened both the Luas Cross City and DIT Grangegorman projects.

    Maxol refused to move its filling station at Broadstone which was earmarked for a Luas stop and an entrance to the new DIT campus after an alternative site could not be agreed.

    Dublin City Council is now proposing to build around the station to allow for a construction of the Broadstone campus entrance consisting of a plaza along with separate car, pedestrian and cycle entrances.

    However, Maxol Chief Executive Tom Noonan said the company is considering its legal options over the works, which will he says "wipe out a high volume site".

    He said Maxol had agreed three years ago to move but Dublin City Council had been unable to provide a site of similar quality.

    Mr Noonan says the council is effectively making a compulsory purchase order with the works now being proposed.

    Maxol have submitted an observation objecting to the part eight development proposal.

    The site is earmarked for a stop on the new Cross City Luas line which is required to be in place by 2017 as part of DIT Grangegorman's planning permission.

    The Luas Cross City project which will link Cabra to St Stephen's Green as well as connecting the Green and Red lines will cost over €380m and create 800 construction jobs.

    DIT Grangegorman is a €200m project which will eventually accommodate all the different DIT colleges on one site catering for 20,000 students with half that number planned to be there by 2017.

    However,both projects have been threatened by the dispute over the Maxol filling station covering around one acre of land.


  • #139
    Aard
    Registered Users Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    Would it be prohibitively expensive to just CPO the site?


  • #140
    nowecant
    Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭nowecant


    I'm not sure but probably in the scale of both the Luas and DIT Grangegorman developments no.

    I think this is just a failing of DCC who dropped the ball here.


  • #141
    Aard
    Registered Users Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    Maxol were offered a site in Coolock, which afaik they were happy with. Then Coolock residents complained that the site was too near a school, and the Council relented. Back to square one.


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  • #142
    nowecant
    Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭nowecant


    I heard about this. Firstly did the residents force the council or did the council just relent? Obviously the residents views are important but i remember when looking this up at the time there seemed to be sufficient distance between the two.

    Why did the council only have one possible alternative site?

    This development has been in the pipeline for years. One would think that a major issue such as this should have been sorted already.


  • #143
    Aard
    Registered Users Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    I'm pretty sure it was just a case of Nimbyism. Like you, I remember looking up the site in the past and imo there wasn't major grounds for protest. At any rate, aren't most petrol stations near at least one school?

    As for having only one possible site - I'm just going off the top of my head, but between land that the Council already own, necessity for frontage on a busy road (generally), appropriate zoning, and there being enough business nearby, I can imagine that narrows down the options a bit.... even to a single site. Remeber Maxol is a private company being asked to essentially do the Council a favour. Just because they're an international company, it doesn't mean that they're under any more or less obligation to move than if it had been a family-run business.

    I think the protesting residents in Coolock shot themselves in the foot a bit on this one. They lost out on an amenity (petrol station) that really wouldn't have been at odds with existing surrounding uses, an employment generator, and increases economic activity in a generally poor area. What's not to like!


  • #144
    nowecant
    Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭nowecant


    It raises an interesting question, is there publicly available list of DCC owned buildings/land? or even better a map? I would have thought there would be a significant amount available, but thats only an assumption. Perhaps a biggers site that would have allowed them to expand the business, better shop car wash etc could have compensated for a slightly lower passing trade. If i remember right a lot of the money in petrol is in secondary sales.

    Remeber Maxol is a private company being asked to essentially do the Council a favour. Just because they're an international company, it doesn't mean that they're under any more or less obligation to move than if it had been a family-run business.

    Very true. I wonder will they or can they object to a CPO?


  • #145
    wicklowwonder
    Registered Users Posts: 1,504 ✭✭✭wicklowwonder


    Don't forget Maxol will be eyeing up all the sales from the students as well. That would be worth a lot to them in future sales too.


  • #146
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,544 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    wicklowwonder wrote: »
    Don't forget Maxol will be eyeing up all the sales from the students as well. That would be worth a lot to them in future sales too.

    As far as I remember, the shop on that site is either miniscule or non-existant. Its not some big modern station with a huge deli like the one near IT Sligo that is utterly mobbed 5 days a week.


  • #147
    D Trent
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,341 ✭✭✭D Trent


    MYOB wrote: »
    As far as I remember, the shop on that site is either miniscule or non-existant. Its not some big modern station with a huge deli like the one near IT Sligo that is utterly mobbed 5 days a week.

    No it's a tiny shop


  • #148
    wicklowwonder
    Registered Users Posts: 1,504 ✭✭✭wicklowwonder


    D Trent wrote: »
    No it's a tiny shop

    It is tiny. You would imagine DCC would have similar vacant sites right across the city.


  • #149
    nowecant
    Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭nowecant


    Well it has got worse.

    This has all the signs of something that could take years to sort

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0407/607371-grangegorman-dit/
    DCC backs new access routes for DIT Grangegorman

    Dublin city councillors have given the go ahead for new access routes for the DIT Grangegorman development to be built around a site that Maxol has refused to vacate.

    Maxol has a petrol station on the site in Broadstone.

    It says the council failed to provide an alternative site.

    The company is now considering legal action, saying the proposed roadworks would "wipe out" the station’s business.

    The Rail Procurement Agency also has planning permission for a Luas stop on the site as part of the new cross-city line.

    The agency has instituted compulsory purchase order proceedings.


  • #150
    wicklowwonder
    Registered Users Posts: 1,504 ✭✭✭wicklowwonder


    nowecant wrote: »
    Well it has got worse.

    This has all the signs of something that could take years to sort

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0407/607371-grangegorman-dit/

    The Rail Procurement Agency also has planning permission for a Luas stop on the site as part of the new cross-city line.

    The agency has instituted compulsory purchase order proceedings.

    Is that a CPO of the Maxol or just surrounding areas?


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  • #151
    nowecant
    Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭nowecant


    I believe its just the Maxol, which may or may not include the old house immediately behind the station.

    The green area I believe is already owned by the council and/or Dublin Bus and Bus Eirean who have already agreed (reluctantly) to the development.


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