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Learning Programming

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  • 20-09-2013 12:20pm
    #1
    Gbear
    Registered Users Posts: 12,775 ✭✭✭✭


    What's the best structured way to learn programming? I don't think I have the discipline to train myself. I have this big 800 page book on ASP.NET but I can't see myself being able to get through it on my own.

    I'm a pretty computer literate 24 year old. I did a basic online course on VB.NET (under the watch of my older brother, who's been programming for about 20 years). I have some vague notion about getting into game design later down the road.

    Is there any private classes, tutoring? I went to a recruitment agency type thing and all they had to offer were FAS courses on ECDL and other useless crap like that.

    Doing a four-year degree in Computer science and the like is not an option (for time and money reasons).


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    #2
    conor.hogan.2
    Registered Users Posts: 5,246 ✭✭✭conor.hogan.2


    Do you have a previous degree (in anything) if so you could do a full or part time conversion computer science course (which is very very well funded so it won't cost you much and you may or may not get grants on top)

    If not there is tons of stuff online on the like of coursera, udacity, edx (which are all college level courses) and then khan academy, youtube, stackoverflow and even reddit (mostly just bubbles the decent stuff to the top of the pile).

    Local libraries have tons of good books (if you look enough even somewhat up to date ones) and you can get books from any library in the country shipped to your local one for I think 50c or a euro or some small fee.

    Also there are great tutorials on android provided by google and others and the same with iOS (and other lesser used mobile operating systems).

    When you get to the stage you want to delve into a specific language (whatever ones closely matched whatever you want to focus on at the time) all the languages I have used have great community support and tutorials.

    Really the issue is whether you want to go it 100% on your own/all online (or mix this with some grinds / smaller courses) or pay to do some college course.

    Either way the issue will be having to much information available and having to sift through it and not get all the bad stuff.


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    #3
    Gbear
    Registered Users Posts: 12,775 ✭✭✭✭Gbear


    conor.hogan.2 wrote: »
    Do you have a previous degree (in anything) if so you could do a full or part time conversion computer science course (which is very very well funded so it won't cost you much and you may or may not get grants on top)

    If not there is tons of stuff online on the like of coursera, udacity, edx (which are all college level courses) and then khan academy, youtube, stackoverflow and even reddit (mostly just bubbles the decent stuff to the top of the pile).

    Local libraries have tons of good books (if you look enough even somewhat up to date ones) and you can get books from any library in the country shipped to your local one for I think 50c or a euro or some small fee.

    Also there are great tutorials on android provided by google and others and the same with iOS (and other lesser used mobile operating systems).

    When you get to the stage you want to delve into a specific language (whatever ones closely matched whatever you want to focus on at the time) all the languages I have used have great community support and tutorials.

    Really the issue is whether you want to go it 100% on your own/all online (or mix this with some grinds / smaller courses) or pay to do some college course.

    Either way the issue will be having to much information available and having to sift through it and not get all the bad stuff.

    Ooh! Quick reply!:)

    I have no degree. In my Dad and my brother I think I have people who can put me on the right path and answer any programming-related query I have. That's not really my problem though.
    My problem is that I can't do this myself. I'm woefully lacking in discipline and I can make commitments and promises to myself that I really will get through a big book or online course on my own steam but I'd just be bull****ting myself and I'd be stuck in the same spot a year down the line.

    I can't understand how FAS or the College of Commerce in Cork city don't have any short programs on this. It's like they're stuck in the 1980's or something. I'm surprised there isn't a course on using punch-card machines.


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    #4
    ChRoMe
    Registered Users Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭ChRoMe


    Gbear wrote: »
    Ooh! Quick reply!:)

    I have no degree. In my Dad and my brother I think I have people who can put me on the right path and answer any programming-related query I have. That's not really my problem though.
    My problem is that I can't do this myself. I'm woefully lacking in discipline and I can make commitments and promises to myself that I really will get through a big book or online course on my own steam but I'd just be bull****ting myself and I'd be stuck in the same spot a year down the line.

    I can't understand how FAS or the College of Commerce in Cork city don't have any short programs on this. It's like they're stuck in the 1980's or something. I'm surprised there isn't a course on using punch-card machines.

    It makes complete sense that there are no "short" programs on this, its an incredibly complex subject that can't be condensed to a quick start course.

    You are going to need to learn how to conquer your procrastination, as even with a course there will be a huge demand for independent learning.


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    #5
    SimonTemplar
    Registered Users Posts: 2,815 ✭✭✭SimonTemplar


    I highly recommend pluralSight. Their library selection is impressive. I wish I knew about them when I started to teach myself programming.


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    #6
    conor.hogan.2
    Registered Users Posts: 5,246 ✭✭✭conor.hogan.2


    Try going through udacity etc and even pluralsight (it is great from what I have seen if very Microsfot heavy but considering you have some VB (:() knowledge it would be extra helpful).

    If you can't stick that than you will have to re-think will you be able to work and continually re-learn this or even be able to stick a degree course or some course like it.


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    #7
    RealistSpy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,686 ✭✭✭RealistSpy


    Ok simple advice here - To learn programming you need to program, at least try.
    Can you try program using visual studios C#/VB an application that adds two numbers. If you get stuck google your problem/s.


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    #8
    DonkeyStyle \o/
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,145 ✭✭✭DonkeyStyle \o/


    For me, it's about coming up with small projects to do. Procrastination happens when you really don't want to do something. So turn it into an enjoyable activity. Put your creativity into it and come up with a small idea that you think would be cool.
    When you try to work on a project like this, and you get stuck, learning how to solve the problem is so much more rewarding.

    It's like walking to work every day, suffering the frustration of it, then reading a few chapters of a book and finding out that you can actually fly there instead. It really is like having this growing set of super-powers, where you get hungry for more. That's my experience of it at its peak. Like when I first started to truly understand what I could do with OOP I was all like this in my head...
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQSNhk5ICTI

    ... because it wasn't just a thing I was learning for the sake of knowing it, it opened creative doors and so many possibilities.

    Hrm, didn't know I was so passionate about programming, lol. :pac:


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    #9
    Devi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 446 ✭✭Devi


    DonkeyStyle \o/ wrote: »
    For me, it's about coming up with small projects to do. Procrastination happens when you really don't want to do something. So turn it into an enjoyable activity. Put your creativity into it and come up with a small idea that you think would be cool.
    When you try to work on a project like this, and you get stuck, learning how to solve the problem is so much more rewarding.

    It's like walking to work every day, suffering the frustration of it, then reading a few chapters of a book and finding out that you can actually fly there instead. It really is like having this growing set of super-powers, where you get hungry for more. That's my experience of it at its peak. Like when I first started to truly understand what I could do with OOP I was all like this in my head...
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQSNhk5ICTI

    ... because it wasn't just a thing I was learning for the sake of knowing it, it opened creative doors and so many possibilities.

    Hrm, didn't know I was so passionate about programming, lol. :pac:

    When did OOP click with you DonkeyStyle? Was it a particular book that you read/course you did? I’m teaching myself Java part-time and although I’m confident enough in the language to write basic apps I struggle with the OOP side of it.


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    #10
    DonkeyStyle \o/
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,145 ✭✭✭DonkeyStyle \o/


    Devi wrote: »
    When did OOP click with you DonkeyStyle? Was it a particular book that you read/course you did? I’m teaching myself Java part-time and although I’m confident enough in the language to write basic apps I struggle with the OOP side of it.
    I don't know if I can credit any one source, but at the time I was reading Professional PHP6. They took a wider approach than solving single problems or introducing individual features, they set about tackling an example application and took you into planning the classes and how they'd fit together. Seeing the code come together step-by-step and how it looked when they were actually using the objects... I found it clever-as-hell. Objects managing objects, polymorphism, it was everything I'd been already reading about in the abstract, but watching it in action and learning how to practically apply this theory to solve real problems.
    At the time I was in coding-hell, trying to refactor a giant sack of crap code I'd painted myself into a corner with. I already kind of knew the problems I was trying to solve, and this stuff came at just the right time, I was able to transpose the problems they were solving to my own.
    I did understand OOP before this, but I didn't understand how to solve problems with it.

    My advice would be to stop reading about OOP and start writing it. Trying to grasp it from theory alone is too difficult. There are too many layers of metaphors to resolve.
    There's a good thread on it here:
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=81923743
    I posted a little project that I thought was cool for starting out.


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    #11
    sakiboy
    Registered Users Posts: 25 ✭sakiboy


    Gbear ,

    you can study java online through Fás's online college. If you are like me and need external deadlines to motivate you this might be the trick . If you are unemployed it's free , otherwise it's €120.
    might be worth a look.

    http://www.ecollege.ie/site/pages/courses/modules/javaProgSE7/javaSE7.html
    sb.


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    #12
    Gbear
    Registered Users Posts: 12,775 ✭✭✭✭Gbear


    Thanks for all the replies by the way.

    I gave thanks with the thanks button but I said I'd post too.

    It's pretty daunting even with my family's background in programming.
    ChRoMe wrote: »
    It makes complete sense that there are no "short" programs on this, its an incredibly complex subject that can't be condensed to a quick start course.

    You are going to need to learn how to conquer your procrastination, as even with a course there will be a huge demand for independent learning.

    While I see what you mean, I don't think it makes sense to have two extremes - you have very low level computer literacy stuff on one side and degrees in computer science on the other.
    You don't need to learn all of the programming in one go. I don't see why there isn't a fairly decent selection of 1 month - 1 year courses that could get you reasonably proficient in maybe 1 language or a few similar ones.

    To use an analogy, there's loads of courses available doing specialised cooking - baking wedding cakes, breadmaking and so forth. You don't need to do a culinary arts degree or learn every countries cuisine in intimate detail to learn useful elements that make you a better chef.


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    #13
    Kidchameleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    Gbear wrote: »
    My problem is that I can't do this myself. I'm woefully lacking in discipline and I can make commitments and promises to myself that I really will get through a big book or online course on my own steam but I'd just be bull****ting myself and I'd be stuck in the same spot a year down the line.

    If you want to be a programmer, your gonna have to get over ALL of the above before you write a single line of code.


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    #14
    Devi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 446 ✭✭Devi


    I think sakiboy comment might be a good place to start, doesn’t have the level of commitment a full time degree requires but at the same time is challenging enough to motivate.

    I find it helps to have a goal in mind(i.e become game developer). Develop a plan with options on how to achieve said goal, select an option and just get down to it. However if you find yourself procrastinating a lot then maybe this goal just does not interest you, if thats the case then you need to be honest with yourself.


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    #15
    returnNull
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,235 ✭✭✭returnNull


    Devi wrote: »
    I think sakiboy comment might be a good place to start, doesn’t have the level of commitment a full time degree requires but at the same time is challenging enough to motivate.

    I find it helps to have a goal in mind(i.e become game developer). Develop a plan with options on how to achieve said goal, select an option and just get down to it. However if you find yourself procrastinating a lot then maybe this goal just does not interest you, if thats the case then you need to be honest with yourself.

    Devi I noticed you were asking about OOP and when the penny dropped.For me it was reading headfirst java(cant recommend it enough),its written by the people that write the oracle java exams.

    If your looking at the gaming side of things there's 2 books I'd recommend.The first being 'beginning java game programming' and killer game programming.

    all three books can be got on amazon a lot cheaper than a brick and mortar store here.

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Killer-Game-Programming-Java-Book/dp/0596007302/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1380100261&sr=8-2&keywords=java+game+programming

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Beginning-Java-Programming-Jonathan-Harbour/dp/1435458087/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1380100430&sr=8-1&keywords=java+game+programming

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Head-First-Java-Kathy-Sierra/dp/0596009208/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1380100471&sr=8-1&keywords=headfirst+java

    Also theres a game dev forum on boards too if you havent come across it yet
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=61


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    #16
    Devi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 446 ✭✭Devi


    returnNull wrote: »
    Devi I noticed you were asking about OOP and when the penny dropped.For me it was reading headfirst java(cant recommend it enough),its written by the people that write the oracle java exams.

    If your looking at the gaming side of things there's 2 books I'd recommend.The first being 'beginning java game programming' and killer game programming.

    all three books can be got on amazon a lot cheaper than a brick and mortar store here.

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Killer-Game-Programming-Java-Book/dp/0596007302/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1380100261&sr=8-2&keywords=java+game+programming

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Beginning-Java-Programming-Jonathan-Harbour/dp/1435458087/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1380100430&sr=8-1&keywords=java+game+programming

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Head-First-Java-Kathy-Sierra/dp/0596009208/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1380100471&sr=8-1&keywords=headfirst+java

    Also theres a game dev forum on boards too if you havent come across it yet
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=61


    I actually have head first Java, it’s an excellent book for beginners and really good at explaining OOP. I do understand inheritance, abstraction, interfaces etc, I guess I’m just not confident on when to use it, I think it’s more OOP design I have a problem with. Probably something that will come with experience.


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    #17
    returnNull
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,235 ✭✭✭returnNull


    Devi wrote: »
    I actually have head first Java, it’s an excellent book for beginners and really good at explaining OOP. I do understand inheritance, abstraction, interfaces etc, I guess I’m just not confident on when to use it, I think it’s more OOP design I have a problem with. Probably something that will come with experience.

    Ah i get ye.I'd be similar enough as in I havent worked in software dev so have no real world experience as such.Another book Ive been meaning to get and has got good enough reviews is about design patterns.

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Head-First-Design-Patterns-Freeman/dp/0596007124/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1380108206&sr=8-1&keywords=head+first+design+patterns


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    #18
    Devi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 446 ✭✭Devi


    returnNull wrote: »
    Ah i get ye.I'd be similar enough as in I havent worked in software dev so have no real world experience as such.Another book Ive been meaning to get and has got good enough reviews is about design patterns.

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Head-First-Design-Patterns-Freeman/dp/0596007124/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1380108206&sr=8-1&keywords=head+first+design+patterns

    Must have a look at that, cheers.


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