MF 300 gearbox

sandydan · 21-08-2014 8:52pm #1

i think i hear a noise in my 91 mf 399 gearbox,its the 3 lever floor change. clutch is slipping slightly anyway so a bit of ripping is in horizon. this noise is like two cogs rattling off each other but not bad similar to noise of chain drive ,hear it most if going down gentle slope , not uphill or if holding back load,has anyone experience of similar.could it be rear drive wheel about 6" long shaft coupling a splined internal pipe shaft at top if gearbox or wear in gearbox, thanks

sandydan · 29-08-2014 1:57pm

is there anybody out there with a bit of experience of these good or bad, id like to hear it , btw my neighbour thinks my ears are too sensitive , he says he cant hear what im taking about:D

case956tom · 29-08-2014 6:07pm

sandydan wrote: »

i think i hear a noise in my 91 mf 399 gearbox,its the 3 lever floor change. clutch is slipping slightly anyway so a bit of ripping is in horizon. this noise is like two cogs rattling off each other but not bad similar to noise of chain drive ,hear it most if going down gentle slope , not uphill or if holding back load,has anyone experience of similar.could it be rear drive wheel about 6" long shaft coupling a splined internal pipe shaft at top if gearbox or wear in gearbox, thanks

an uncle of mine in ni had a 185 used to do the same as you describe always happened going down a slight slope when ideling, never seemed to bother anyone there.sorry I cant give anymore info than that.

sandydan · 29-08-2014 6:23pm

case956tom wrote: »

an uncle of mine in ni had a 185 used to do the same as you describe always happened going down a slight slope when ideling, never seemed to bother anyone there.sorry I cant give anymore info than that.

that's grand,i take it nothing was done about rectifying it, or was there. i had issue with splined shaft on top of gearbox in 390 but rattle was a lot worse, in that case lock-nut on shaft loosened and clevis pin in shaft cracked,shaft slid off and tractor stopped moving, but id consider myself lucky not have been going downhill if shaft fell into cogs etc,so when replacing shaft i put locktite on thread.
this time it more subtle and wondering could it be wear in bearing or in main shaft in box of box housing, wonder had anyone issue like that.
i once saw 7610 with slight noise and it turned out to be worn housing ,which had to be replaced

emaherx · 01-09-2014 7:44pm

sandydan wrote: »

that's grand,i take it nothing was done about rectifying it, or was there. i had issue with splined shaft on top of gearbox in 390 but rattle was a lot worse, in that case lock-nut on shaft loosened and clevis pin in shaft cracked,shaft slid off and tractor stopped moving, but id consider myself lucky not have been going downhill if shaft fell into cogs etc,so when replacing shaft i put locktite on thread.
this time it more subtle and wondering could it be wear in bearing or in main shaft in box of box housing, wonder had anyone issue like that.
i once saw 7610 with slight noise and it turned out to be worn housing ,which had to be replaced

Always hard to diagnose noises from some one else's description, or even trying to quantify what a slight noise is.
Sounds to me like a bearing worn gears tend to be more of a whine.

Is the noise present in all gears?
Dose the noise change if you clutch or even bearly rest your foot on the clutch pedal?

Have you tried adjusting the clutch yet?

On a seperate note was the 390 a shuttle box model?

Oh.. and if you are replacing the clutch get a genuine one. And if loader tractor or used for bailing consider a genuine heavy duty clutch.

You will regret putting in a cheap one.

sandydan · 02-09-2014 12:04am

its similar to chain case noise,kind of slight rattle,hear it if going downhill on gently sloping road, not if under pressure.
i adjusted clutch thanks for advice on that ,its slipping slightly if in high gear,some times worse,so thought first it was something getting into disc , there is a brown watery type stain high up on right side of housing across from starter,was wondering if its a frost plug leaking, water level in rad staying fairly constant ,seems to rule out water leak. anyway ripping it out if reseeding done will sort that one , no oil leak under tractor.i always get massey cluches from dealer . i expect this one to be star type clutch similar to one was in 390,
its 3 lever 91 model 399, ill check for those other things tomorrow thanks

sandydan · 02-09-2014 10:05pm

noise is more noticeable in high gears, if clutch is pressed it reduces it, but not eliminate ,very little noise under load pressure, also more noticeable when hot, making me suspect wear .as i said its something you really have to listen for, unlike splined shaft-pipe ( is it called a gear wheel,its about 6" inches long)that came off in 390

sandydan · 21-01-2015 12:24pm

took off bottom plate and a gallon of sludge came out ,noise is a lot worse with it off and it probably the bearing,no oil is leaking in so a previous owner must have given it a mud bath, solved clutch slipping problem too,
got a bellyfull of electrical problem now some due to dash m gave it to trainee auto electrician to check out. main dealers dash test equipment is damaged, oil pressure light and blue high light comes on with ignition turned off and alternator is not functioning either.apprentice recons faulty earths cause a lot of problems in masseys and need checking if charging problems occur ,

sandydan · 19-02-2015 7:56pm

for some reason ive found getting information on electrical problems in MF 300 series like finding hens teeth anyways here is my story so far,
i ripped out dash and its largly ok, however a relay over back of engine thats conected to wires from solenied and starter has been the culprit, leaking half to one volt into solenied its enough to keep bendix of starter engaged and only by standing out side tractor when stopping will you hear starter running , costin aroud €10 euro its simple to replace and hopefully will put an end to discharging of battery when sorted.

emaherx · 20-02-2015 10:26am

Is that relay an original part? Any 300 series I've seen with a starter relay it looks retro fitted. And always to the older black cab models. probably due to the wiring looms tendency to overheat and spontaneously combust.

I have removed, the entire loom from ours, and replaced each damaged wire and any corroded connector blocks and then re-installed it. It now has all electrics working 100%. Took me a whole day to go through loom one wire at a time. New loom costs about 1500 euro.

sandydan · 20-02-2015 8:02pm

thanks for helpful information on all things mf related, i dont know if its original or not but judging by way it was dumped onto top of engine i doubt if was an original fixture, cfm had to look it up and rang back and had the relay with part no same as fitted, i can however see logic of fitting it but friend of mine( retired electrical engineer) questioned the use of a relay that had no earth connection and is to look at it tomorrow hopefully,there are a lot of wires cut off proper plug in connection .its 1991 mf 399 4wd.
i only thought of tracing wires when wondering if problem was caused in similar fashion to old 188 by gear neutral in HL lever and came to a what could only be charitably described as jungle of insulating tape and blue connections with no wire colour code corresponding to wire leaving key switch. i have rewired a ford tractor or 2 in past after handymen caused fires wiring, but tracing and rewiring this looks like a maze.

emaherx · 21-02-2015 1:50pm

sandydan wrote: »

thanks for helpful information on all things mf related, i dont know if its original or not but judging by way it was dumped onto top of engine i doubt if was an original fixture, cfm had to look it up and rang back and had the relay with part no same as fitted, i can however see logic of fitting it but friend of mine( retired electrical engineer) questioned the use of a relay that had no earth connection and is to look at it tomorrow hopefully,there are a lot of wires cut off proper plug in connection .its 1991 mf 399 4wd.
i only thought of tracing wires when wondering if problem was caused in similar fashion to old 188 by gear neutral in HL lever and came to a what could only be charitably described as jungle of insulating tape and blue connections with no wire colour code corresponding to wire leaving key switch. i have rewired a ford tractor or 2 in past after handymen caused fired wiring, but tracing and rewiring this looks like a maze.

Those blue connectors are the worst invention a farmer ever got his hands on. Worse than bailing twine and pallets!

You really need to pull the whole loom out to make sense of it. It comes out in 3 pieces. Main loom from fuses, switches and dash. Second loom from front of cab to head lights, alternator,starter and engine sensors, third loom to cab mounted lights, wipers etc.

Most likely with that tractor wiring from main loom to second loom has overheated in the starter circuit, probably due to bad connection between the looms (dirt,oil,corrosion etc)

If you are lucky the butcher who "repaired" it previously has left enough of the original wiring in place. If this is the case you have the template for repair, even if you have to match up the coloured wires that were cut.

sandydan · 21-02-2015 3:43pm

didn,t have time to start at today due to funerals, anyways the said butcher cut wiring neatly at rubber plugs that join loom sections together,and i didn,t consider dismantling or trying to dismantle those yet but... what strength gauge auto wiring did you use rewiring, any particular brand preference
btw on related subject,
have you dismantled loom section that runs up right hand cab pillar ,
some gombeen decided to put in a timber structure across frame of cab in order to screw interior roof cladding on, to secure it in place and trapped the wires just at top in process, so resulting in wires to wiper motor and roof light being trapped and leaving only 1 safe intact wire to carry current to activate wiper, even managed to damage earth wire, but i put return earth wire to interior mirror frame and routed live wire to a new switch to activate wiper ( 1 speed only), so i dont have the 2 lamps on cab top working either. typical get her traded job i recon, no wonder alternators weren,t surviving .
what im asking is it possible to replace that wiring running up door pillar by removing roof from outside, or is there risk of shearing bolts and should i dismantle interior which actually looks ok only for said damn stupidity. thanks for your help

emaherx · 21-02-2015 10:46pm

sandydan wrote: »

didn,t have time to start at today due to funerals, anyways the said butcher cut wiring neatly at rubber plugs that join loom sections together,and i didn,t consider dismantling or trying to dismantle those yet but... what strength gauge auto wiring did you use rewiring, any particular brand preference
btw on related subject,
have you dismantled loom section that runs up right hand cab pillar ,
some gombeen decided to put in a timber structure across frame of cab in order to screw interior roof cladding on, to secure it in place and trapped the wires just at top in process, so resulting in wires to wiper motor and roof light being trapped and leaving only 1 safe intact wire to carry current to activate wiper, even managed to damage earth wire, but i put return earth wire to interior mirror frame and routed live wire to a new switch to activate wiper ( 1 speed only), so i dont have the 2 lamps on cab top working either. typical get her traded job i recon, no wonder alternators weren,t surviving .
what im asking is it possible to replace that wiring running up door pillar by removing roof from outside, or is there risk of shearing bolts and should i dismantle interior which actually looks ok only for said damn stupidity. thanks for your help

If your roof liner is intacked and fitted propperly I wouldn't disturb it as it is a Bitch to get back on. I would take the plastic roof off, it is easier.

I can't rember off hand wire gauge, but I replaced like with like. No preferance on brand.

Suckler · 22-02-2015 1:28pm

emaherx wrote: »

Those blue connectors are the worst invention a farmer ever got his hands on. Worse than bailing twine and pallets!....
If you are lucky the butcher who "repaired" it previously has left enough of the original wiring in place. If this is the case you have the template for repair, even if you have to match up the coloured wires that were cut.

Could not thank that post enough. I've been through too many of those jobs tracing wires back for lads, colour codes no more matched and redundant wires wrapped up in tape alongside new ones just for hardship later on.

sandydan · 23-02-2015 11:57am

emaherx wrote: »

If your roof liner is intacked and fitted propperly I wouldn't disturb it as it is a Bitch to get back on. I would take the plastic roof off, it is easier.

I can't rember off hand wire gauge, but I replaced like with like. No preferance on brand.

thanks for your help. might have a go at it when weather clears up a bit got to trace wiring to starter and alternator-light now first and get that working again.as well some solenieds on oil line over engine have been neutered too:(
ill get at roof wiring later as its not blowing fuses now,but id like to fit radio and maybe front led worklights to save power. btw a garage man told me yesterday it may be possible to get led or power-saving bulbs for standard plough-lamps, anyone hear of them?
off topic a bit but a few years ago i bought a small fist sized battery charger marked 12/24 volt in lidl for 4.99 just for the fun of it, its working no problem, just take it off now and again to cool down

emaherx · 23-02-2015 12:37pm

sandydan wrote: »

thanks for your help. might have a go at it when weather clears up a bit got to trace wiring to starter and alternator-light now first and get that working again.as well some solenieds on oil line over engine have been neutered too:(
ill get at roof wiring later as its not blowing fuses now,but id like to fit radio and maybe front led worklights to save power. btw a garage man told me yesterday it may be possible to get led or power-saving bulbs for standard plough-lamps, anyone hear of them?
off topic a bit but a few years ago i bought a small fist sized battery charger marked 12/24 volt in lidl for 4.99 just for the fun of it, its working no problem, just take it off now and again to cool down

Don't get LED bulbs, they are not as good, LED lamps are completely sealed units, will give no issues due to vibration or moisture.

On a side note, I was wrapping bales last year with LED Lamps, tractor had a faulty alternator, it was charging but not able to cope with headlights on, as my lights got dimmer and dimmer it dawned on me to turn off all of the incandescent lights, LEDs instantly went back to full power and battery started charging, even had enough power to turn headlights back on for short trip home.

sandydan · 23-02-2015 3:56pm

emaherx wrote: »

Don't get LED bulbs, they are not as good, LED lamps are completely sealed units, will give no issues due to vibration or moisture.

On a side note, I was wrapping bales last year with LED Lamps, tractor had a faulty alternator, it was charging but not able to cope with headlights on, as my lights got dimmer and dimmer it dawned on me to turn off all of the incandescent lights, LEDs instantly went back to full power and battery started charging, even had enough power to turn headlights back on for short trip home.

thats what i have in mind too,headlights are too low for most field work anyway so led lamps would fit the job imo even though costing around €40+ locally but imo available cheaper up country or NI,
ps have you got a wiring diagram for 399 alternator to starter / dash or where one can be accessed, i,m slightly confussed as they say hereabouts trying to sort this one out with extra surplus wiring got 5 coming off solenied some attached to that relay,me thinks there should be 3 ,dont want to mess up now, its starting not sure if alternator is charging or not, and dont want to fit recon alternator until wiring is sorted coming from alternator to dash and solenied. thanks for your help

emaherx · 23-02-2015 7:18pm

sandydan wrote: »

thats what i have in mind too,headlights are too low for most field work anyway so led lamps would fit the job imo even though costing around €40+ locally but imo available cheaper up country or NI,
ps have you got a wiring diagram for 399 alternator to starter / dash or where one can be accessed, i,m slightly confussed as they say hereabouts trying to sort this one out with extra surplus wiring got 5 coming off solenied some attached to that relay,me thinks there should be 3 ,dont want to mess up now, its starting not sure if alternator is charging or not, and dont want to fit recon alternator until wiring is sorted coming from alternator to dash and solenied. thanks for your help

I have the complete wiring diagram, I will need to dig it out, (possibly at the weekend). But be warned it is so complete that it can be hard to follow.

sandydan · 23-02-2015 9:34pm

emaherx wrote: »

I have the complete wiring diagram, I will need to dig it out, (possibly at the weekend). But be warned it is so complete that it can be hard to follow.

i
thanks for that , id settle for the basic wiring route, of alternator to solenied and switch route for now i got a 399 wiring diagram online but youd need a magnifying glass to make it visible, let alone follow it,

i know the middle wire goes to top of switch and soleneid but cant fiigure out where the top brown goes to, i also recon the small bottom brown wire goes to left of centre of of big ford connector to right side of dash,that leaves the other wire bolted onto alternator hanging in mid air,on this 399 now since ive come to conclusion that a faulty connections are abundant in the homemade blue connections there in that maze, the reason im saying that is brake lights and indicators just give uup and work again up without apparent reason just a bump , i might fit new key-switch as well as when testing current base wire in switch it broke continuity if key was rocked up and down.
im using a mutimeter and length of wire +insulated crocodile clips to ensure good connectivity, perishing could weather for the bloody job, but ideal idling time killer at same time

emaherx · 23-02-2015 10:37pm

sandydan wrote: »

i
thanks for that , id settle for the basic wiring route, of alternator to solenied and switch route for now i got a 399 wiring diagram online but youd need a magnifying glass to make it visible, let alone follow it,

i know the middle wire goes to top of switch and soleneid but cant fiigure out where the top brown goes to, i also recon the small bottom brown wire goes to left of centre of of big ford connector to right side of dash,that leaves the other wire bolted onto alternator hanging in mid air,on this 399 now since ive come to conclusion that a faulty connections are abundant in the homemade blue connections there in that maze, the reason im saying that is brake lights and indicators just give uup and work again up without apparent reason just a bump , i might fit new key-switch as well as when testing current base wire in switch it broke continuity if key was rocked up and down.
im using a mutimeter and length of wire +insulated crocodile clips to ensure good connectivity, perishing could weather for the bloody job, but ideal idling time killer at same time

Ok as a temporary fix, you can connect small connector through a lamp (charge light) and the ignition switch. Large connector goes straight to battery positive (at starter).

Other large connector is the same but normally goes to live through the full load of working electrics in the cab and is used for sense porpusses to control alternator efficiency when all the lights are on. (this can be ignored for a temporary fix unless you intened working for hours with all lights on).

Also note charge light is important, that circuit requires the lamp as load. it might be easier to get a generic lamp from auto factors than interfere with dash wiring.

There is a fourth wire bolted to alternator, this is for your rev counter.

Remember this is a temporary fix. Repairing the looms is going to sort out all of these issues without having to fully understand them (ie follow the colours, assuming there is enough of the original loom left)

emaherx · 23-02-2015 10:43pm

Here is a simple diagram of a generic alternator setup.

http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/electric/pics/cir_alt2.gif

sandydan · 23-02-2015 10:53pm

emaherx wrote: »

Ok as a temporary fix, you can connect small connector through a lamp (charge light) and the ignition switch. Large connector goes straight to battery positive (at starter).

It might be easier to get a generic lamp from auto factors than interfere with dash wiring.

Also note charge light is important, that circuit requires the lamp as load.

There is a fourth wire bolted to alternator, this is for your rev counter.

Remember this is a temporary fix. Repairing the looms is going to sort out all of these issues without having to fully understand them (ie follow the colours, assuming there is enough of the original loom left)

thanks you saved me a heap of misery.as wire was cut clean at rubber connectors at plug ends of loom. i got a heavy duty battery warning lamp in coop,x mechanic said not use light ones as they burnt out in a few 390s doing a lot of night work. as quite a few have added this to overcome charging issues, seems to work alright, but its the load of crap in this tractor wiring that beats me, what connector do you recommend as im about to puke at thought of using blue ones.
mechanically the 399 is very good, getting sludge out of clutch solved slipping issue and its the truss bearing is causing noise, very noticeable with plate missing,

emaherx · 23-02-2015 11:14pm

These are the only blade connectors to use, you need a special crimp tool, it folds the ends around like you you would see in factory made looms, you can get them in multiblock connectors also.

You can get them in bullet type to suite the MF connector blocks interconnecting the looms.

http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.eu/product.php/429/female-blade-with-latch

Also get the propper Lucas plug for alternator as using blades by themselves will lead to alternator connection rusting causing even more charging issues.

If you are splitting tractor to do clutch / bearings, it is a good time to do wiring as it much easier to access cab wiring fro the front of cab.

sandydan · 23-02-2015 11:19pm

thanks for help and information, they work by googling anyways so dont worry about small things, time will sort it one way or another.

sandydan · 24-02-2015 11:27pm

had a go at sorting a bit today, forgot to say that 2 of the 5 wires attached to solenied were black,while my neighbours 398 has 2 brown and 2 move or purple.
of the 5 wires this is the analysis ive made using multimeter and piece of wire.

1 brown wire is from mid wire on alternator and top blade on key switch
2 going to relay i mentioned about 1 of those had to be black 1 red talk about appropriate colours for carrying current.
1 black wire is a bit of mystery but is connected to 1 blue and 1 yellow wire on each side of ford connector on back of dash. and is also connected to connectors blades in sensors attached to air filter box and another loom connector folder over outside loom by injectors, this connection takes place somewhere after solenied and before 1st loom connector i doubt if this is factory spec,
in comparison to neighbours 398 this leaves me minus one brown wire so i presume i black or wire was supposed to attach to remainder of cut off wire at some point.maybe at relay?but i figure that was connected to starer side of switch?
the plug connector is original id say with 2 thick brown wires and 1 light wire to bottom , surprised ? i am

sandydan · 27-02-2015 3:38pm

well i sorta got temporary ignition light wired up from alt connection top blade on key switch to small brown wire in dash off bottom wire in alternator , turns on when main switch is on , thinking of leaving it that way to remind me turn off isolator switch , when dash is repaired and fitted i wonder will it work
for anyone wondering how to wire relay, diagram is not required , just remember the numbers on relay connect as follows
30 power from battery
85 earth
86 power from switch
87 power from relay to device eg starter

if using 5 pin the difference is
87 power on
87a power off
so if using 5 pin where 4 pin would suffice just use as 4 pin

Desolation Of Smug · 28-02-2015 6:22pm

Try fixing the wiring on a 32 speed 3080 autotronic that several "lads" have had a go at... MOG, head melter...that was this afternoon, and no joy...session 2 on monday after work...tractor will not go into either high or low range, so it's either electrical(probably) or the selector fork/main shaft nut has come loose(possible)...fun either way...

emaherx · 01-03-2015 11:54am

Desolation Of Smug wrote: »

Try fixing the wiring on a 32 speed 3080 autotronic that several "lads" have had a go at... MOG, head melter...that was this afternoon, and no joy...session 2 on monday after work...tractor will not go into either high or low range, so it's either electrical(probably) or the selector fork/main shaft nut has come loose(possible)...fun either way...

I have seen a few of these.........
The only advise I have is get a big swear jar

sandydan · 01-03-2015 9:23pm

Desolation Of Smug wrote: »

Try fixing the wiring on a 32 speed 3080 autotronic that several "lads" have had a go at... MOG, head melter...that was this afternoon, and no joy...session 2 on monday after work...tractor will not go into either high or low range, so it's either electrical(probably) or the selector fork/main shaft nut has come loose(possible)...fun either way...

thought the solution to that was 18 speed box,dont know where you buy

emaherx · 01-03-2015 10:10pm

sandydan wrote: »

thought the solution to that was 18 speed box,dont know where you buy

Not if it's electrical issue. Those tractors had about 3 ecu type controllers for the different systems. Too many lads thought it much easier to bypass the ecu's in favour of toggle switches directly connected to the solinoides under the cab. If you thaught your tractor was butchered by a cowboy, then you have never seen one of these special modifactions.

MF 300 gearbox

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