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Insurance Co Question

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  • 26-04-2010 3:55pm
    #1
    boomer_ie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 392 ✭✭


    Hi guys

    i am looking for feedback on how to get information abotu a claim that I have against a TP that crashed into me (pulled out in front of me, open and shut case you would think but not so apparantly!)

    To put a long story short her Insurance co has declared that I was 100% liable for the collision and closed the claim. My own insurance co has declared her to be 100% liable and is refusing to do any more about it and washed their hands of the whole affair.

    Needless to say I have been doing some digging about the claim and was told off the record that the decision making me 100% liable was NOT based on driving styles / positions on road etc. Needless to say I cannot specify the information I was given but I do need to find some way of getting this information legally.

    My question is does anyone know if I can do a FOI request from her insurance company of all correspondance and any records related to the claim?


Comments

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    #2
    aussiegirl1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21 ✭aussiegirl1


    You can request the information and pay the nominal fee under the data protection act (usually about €6) however you will only be entitled to the documents they have that relate to you. In other words anything you have sent them in and also a copy of a motor engineers report if they had one look at your vehicle.
    If you have your own comprehensive insurance, I would suggest that you claim through your own policy and your insurer will seek recovery from the third parties insurers for their outlay and your excess.

    If you don't want to claim through your own comprehensive policy your option is to sue to third party for the damage they have caused to your vehicle. However this is a lengthy process and generally insurance companies will share information with each other regarding their own policy holders version of event and reason why they are disputing liability. So I would suggest you claim under your comp policy and let both the insurance companies sort it out.


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    #3
    aussiegirl1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21 ✭aussiegirl1


    sorry forgot to add also that if the other person's insurance company have just closed their file you might like to remind them of section 20 and 22 of the consumer protection code in relation to insurance which states:

    'A regulated entity must, within 10 business days of the making of a decision in respect of a claim, advise the
    claimant in writing of the outcome of the investigation explaining the terms of any offer of settlement. If the claim
    is denied, the reasons for the denial must be provided to the claimant in writing.

    and

    A regulated entity must provide a claimant with written details of any internal appeals mechanisms available to
    the claimant. '

    any other help you need along the way PM me.


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    #4
    boomer_ie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 392 ✭✭boomer_ie


    aussiegirl1 wrote: »
    sorry forgot to add also that if the other person's insurance company have just closed their file you might like to remind them of section 20 and 22 of the consumer protection code in relation to insurance which states:

    'A regulated entity must, within 10 business days of the making of a decision in respect of a claim, advise the
    claimant in writing of the outcome of the investigation explaining the terms of any offer of settlement. If the claim
    is denied, the reasons for the denial must be provided to the claimant in writing.

    and

    A regulated entity must provide a claimant with written details of any internal appeals mechanisms available to
    the claimant. '

    any other help you need along the way PM me.

    So far all they have said is that they found me liable claiming i was doing a dangerous manoveur at speed (23kph is speeding now????) when THEIR client came out from a side road in front of me giving me no time to avoid hitting them (only saw them pull out sharply as i reached the junction, stopped in two to three feet or so). this via Email would that count as "written"?

    But they havent sent the other bit of info you said they should, what they said to me was any further action was that I should contact a solicitor.


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    #5
    aussiegirl1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21 ✭aussiegirl1


    yes written includes email.

    may I suggest you write/ email into them (be sure to quote their claim number) and advise them that you hold their client liable for the loss and damage sustained as a result of the accident on (date) at (place).

    Advise them that you hold them liable as their client pulled out on to the main road you were travelling on, thereby failing to give way to give way and causing a collision between the two vehicles.

    Also be sure to tell them that you are putting them on notice that should you the matter go further you will be seeking costs in relation to the claim.

    to be honest it's not worth your while trying to obtain the information they have which originally made them deny liability, that will come out soon enough.


  • Options
    #6
    thebiglad
    Registered Users Posts: 1,560 ✭✭✭thebiglad


    boomer_ie wrote: »
    So far all they have said is that they found me liable claiming i was doing a dangerous manoveur at speed (23kph is speeding now????) when THEIR client came out from a side road in front of me giving me no time to avoid hitting them (only saw them pull out sharply as i reached the junction, stopped in two to three feet or so). this via Email would that count as "written"?

    But they havent sent the other bit of info you said they should, what they said to me was any further action was that I should contact a solicitor.

    If you are 100% confident in what you say (that there is some damning evidence) then go to a solicitor - the full costs of the Solicitor will be recovered from the other party's insurer in the end.

    If you intend to claim for an injury then you need to go to PIAB before going to an insurer to make sure you get the fees covered.


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    #7
    aussiegirl1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21 ✭aussiegirl1


    I would try and explore what they try and mean by your 'dangerous manoveur' give them a call and ask them for their insured's version of events just over the phone. It will hopefully give you an idea of what their client is tell them and will help you see how they are are holding you liable for the accident. Also if they are holding you liable, check with them if their insured is claiming through them for the damage to their vehicle.


  • Options
    #8
    NUTLEY BOY
    Registered Users Posts: 2,344 ✭✭✭NUTLEY BOY


    This is ridiculous behaviour by the insurance company of the car that pulled out from the side road. It is also classically typical of the nonsense that insurance company idiots talk these days.

    If you pull out from a side road there is an assumption that you are liable for failing to yield right of way and failing to keep a proper look out - amongst other matters. On these facts the other motorist's insurers are the ones who need to explain why they think that they are not liable !!

    Don't take much more of this nonsense. Tell them the facts as you see them and demand that they settle in full or you will instruct a solicitor to issue proceedings against their client. Set them a definite time limit of another 14 days and if you have no satisfaction proceed as others have suggested here.


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    #9
    evolutionqy7
    Registered Users Posts: 6,275 ✭✭✭evolutionqy7


    when a lorry crashed into us our insurance company (Quinn) didnt do ****...we had to go to hibernian (lorry drivers insurance) to sort it out ourselves :S but when the accident happen we just got the name of the driver and the lorry number plates...took pictures on the scene...didnt move our car till garda arrived...was a long and boring process...on way to get other drivers details is to thru a solicitor i guess!


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    #10
    Gooner84
    Registered Users Posts: 10 ✭Gooner84


    The quickest and easiest way to get this sorted is to claim off your own insurance, if what you say is true and the other party was at fault your own insurance company will chase after their company for the claim alot quicker than anything you can do.

    You really could spend alot of time chasing people other wise


  • Options
    #11
    evolutionqy7
    Registered Users Posts: 6,275 ✭✭✭evolutionqy7


    Gooner84 wrote: »
    The quickest and easiest way to get this sorted is to claim off your own insurance, if what you say is true and the other party was at fault your own insurance company will chase after their company for the claim alot quicker than anything you can do.

    You really could spend alot of time chasing people other wise

    well a decent insurance company should take care of it all for you in the first place!

    dont you loose your no claims bonus if you claim of your own insurance company...this thing just should have been done properly in the first place...take pictures of road positioning of both vehicles where who drove in, call gards...get his car reg and insurance details of his disk if he wont give em to you! wait till gards come hell talk then!

    i mean when the lorry crashed into us the only thing that prooved that it was his fault that the car was left of centre on the bend and the fact that the lorry just kept going and didnt stop and let through the driver that had the road advantage. be a lesson well learnt...had to go thru some annoying **** with the quinn...no one wants to pay out money or even help...


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    #12
    NUTLEY BOY
    Registered Users Posts: 2,344 ✭✭✭NUTLEY BOY


    Claiming under your comprehensive cover does affect your NCD unless and until such time as your insurers recover their outlay in full. The question of fault for the accident is irrelevant to this aspect of matters if they have not got their money back by the time of your renewal.

    Your insurance company will seek recovery of their outlay. You need to make sure that your other losses are also recovered at the same time e.g. car hire, depreciation and so on. If you have injuries that is a separate matter.

    Incidentally, and this really infuriates me about insurance companies, they do NOT judge who is liable for an accident and issue a decision as if they had the legal authority of a court of law. This business of throwing out a decision and then announcing that they are closing their file is the height of arrogance, ignorance and impertinence. Rant over.....


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    #13
    thebiglad
    Registered Users Posts: 1,560 ✭✭✭thebiglad


    NUTLEY BOY wrote: »
    Claiming under your comprehensive cover does affect your NCD unless and until such time as your insurers recover their outlay in full. The question of fault for the accident is irrelevant to this aspect of matters if they have not got their money back by the time of your renewal.

    Your insurance company will seek recovery of their outlay. You need to make sure that your other losses are also recovered at the same time e.g. car hire, depreciation and so on. If you have injuries that is a separate matter.

    Incidentally, and this really infuriates me about insurance companies, they do NOT judge who is liable for an accident and issue a decision as if they had the legal authority of a court of law. This business of throwing out a decision and then announcing that they are closing their file is the height of arrogance, ignorance and impertinence. Rant over.....

    Insurance companies are not their to support the moral indignation of wronged parties following an accident, they are commercial entities.

    In every accident there are 2 versions, without independent witnesses it is possible that the truth can never be fully reached. They therefore have to make a commercial decision whether to invest potentially significant funds into an investigation and then court action or take the hit of their own outlay.

    Where the insured party is that confident the case can be proven, should they recover their own losses in full from the 'responsible' insurance company - present this to own insurer and they will then have to reinstate the NCD - they may even go get their own outlays.

    If having recovered 100% of outlay insurer will not reinstate (unlikely) take it to the ombudsman.

    There are ways around all of these things - do exactly what you expect the insurer to do - prove the liability (if necessary take it into court).


  • Options
    #14
    NUTLEY BOY
    Registered Users Posts: 2,344 ✭✭✭NUTLEY BOY


    thebiglad wrote: »
    Insurance companies are not their to support the moral indignation of wronged parties following an accident, they are commercial entities.

    In every accident there are 2 versions, without independent witnesses it is possible that the truth can never be fully reached. They therefore have to make a commercial decision whether to invest potentially significant funds into an investigation and then court action or take the hit of their own outlay.

    Where the insured party is that confident the case can be proven, should they recover their own losses in full from the 'responsible' insurance company - present this to own insurer and they will then have to reinstate the NCD - they may even go get their own outlays.

    If having recovered 100% of outlay insurer will not reinstate (unlikely) take it to the ombudsman.

    There are ways around all of these things - do exactly what you expect the insurer to do - prove the liability (if necessary take it into court).

    Agreed.

    In general, just remember that the claimant has the onus of proof and that the required standard is the balance of probabilities.


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    #15
    thebiglad
    Registered Users Posts: 1,560 ✭✭✭thebiglad


    NUTLEY BOY wrote: »
    Agreed.

    In general, just remember that the claimant has the onus of proof and that the required standard is the balance of probabilities.

    That caveat is the crux of this issue.

    People expect an insurer to argue their point based on the information they present but when they have to put their own money on the line to prove the argument then it is case of having to consider it more carefully.

    If OPs version is correct and as clear cut as posted here then they cannot lose - if however there are mitigating issues or circumstances of which the insurers are aware then there is a realistic possibility to lose the case and end up with costs.

    The insurers have made their position clear - not it is a matter for OP to pursue and realistically the only progress will be made by the legal process.

    If they are genuine then I wish them the best of luck and hope that they get sorted.


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