* eircom and Internet Censoring *

Nody · 27-02-2009 2:21pm

uncle_sam_ie wrote: »

So, If eircom starts censoring the web and I go around it like they do in China, will I be breaking the law or what?

Eircom is not the garda, nor do they write the law, hence you would only be breaking their T&C.

Wcool · 27-02-2009 4:08pm

Nody wrote: »

Eircom is not the garda, nor do they write the law, hence you would only be breaking their T&C.

Looking at Eircom's T&C http://www.eircom.ie/bveircom/pdf/BBStandardTandCsv2.pdf you are not even breaking Eircom's T&C if you would try to keep your internet traffic private from anyone, including Eircom.

blubloblu · 27-02-2009 6:15pm

Here's a sample letter you can send to Eircom to voice your feelings:
http://www.viewfromthequad.com/2009/02/26/a-sample-blackout-ireland-letter-to-the-isps

jor el · 27-02-2009 6:32pm

If eircom is to implement a website blocking structure, then I'd imagine they'll have to modify their terms and conditions to say something like "We reserve the right to block websites with certain content, etc, etc", and then get all existing customers to agree to this new term.

If it gets to that stage, then it'll be too late to do anything about it, and expressing your dissatisfaction would be a moot point. I hope eircom customers do not wait until then to do anything, such as canceling their account. The time for action against web censoring is now, before the sites get censored.

Hopefully the other ISPs will fight any court case. If you are a customer of an ISP that you believe may have received one of these IRMA letters, then you should contact them now and express your desire for them to fight it.

There is no case for blocking websites that have not been proven to be illegal. Let IRMA first prove that the torrent site's content is against Irish laws, and then take action. I still believe the action should be directed at the site in question though, and not a localised block on access, which really won't work anyway.

uncle_sam_ie · 27-02-2009 6:56pm

blubloblu wrote: »

Here's a sample letter you can send to Eircom to voice your feelings:
http://www.viewfromthequad.com/2009/02/26/a-sample-blackout-ireland-letter-to-the-isps

What we need is a very simple e-mail to send to all our friends explaining simply what is going on and the consequences. Then ask them to e-mail eircom, by including a short pre written message to eircom (so it will only take a min out of their time). Also, ask them to forward your e-mail to all their friends. Are hope would be to make this viral. If enough people spam Eircom's in-box then hopefully they'll get the message. I know at least 30 people around the world that would do it. But, it has to be short, to the point and easy for them.

Donald-Duck · 27-02-2009 7:41pm

uncle_sam_ie wrote: »

What we need is a very simple e-mail to send to all our friends explaining simply what is going on and the consequences. Then ask them to e-mail eircom, by including a short pre written message to eircom (so it will only take a min out of their time). Also, ask them to forward your e-mail to all their friends. Are hope would be to make this viral. If enough people spam Eircom's in-box then hopefully they'll get the message. I know at least 30 people around the world that would do it. But, it has to be short, to the point and easy for them.

Say no to chainmail :mad:

Spear · 27-02-2009 8:42pm

I'm curious as to how Eircom intend to block any site. Previous attempts such as in Italy, involved local ISP's not returning valid DNS lookups for it. After a few weeks they gave up since it was pointless. It takes only a few seconds to stick in the DNS servers from OpenDNS or Level3. Anything beyond this, such as messing with routing tables is easily bypassed by proxy or Tor. Deep packet inspection means more equipment and costs for Eircom, which I doubt they'd tolerate. Has there been any mention of the technical approach from IRMA or Eircom?

tanora78 · 28-02-2009 12:59am

This post has been deleted.

28-02-2009 1:20am

Im starting to think Eircom wants to go bankrupt.

They controlled internet access for many years in Ireland, never had any push to provide BB nationwide.

Now they provide a shoddy service, overpriced services, over payed employees and now are going be one of the 1st ISPs to roll over and just accept these Nazi organizations ideals.

Tpb recently won yet another case in Sweden, as by Swedish law and irish for that matter the site is legal.

So how the hell can eircom just decide to start censoring a legal website.

I dont know how anyone is on eircom(besides people who cant get anything else)

eircom needs continue to loose customers in droves, they have a government attitude, like they can dictate the rules and content of the internet.

Ill be happy on the day that i hear eircom are going into administration and i feel it will be soon.

UPC are pumping money into there network, and with the no line rental and bundle packages they will suck up the market.
If they sorted out there CC and so on i would recommend it to everyone.

iamlegend2008 · 28-02-2009 2:59am

Hi

Further to my earlier post in this thread, here's a sample image that could be used to get the point across pretty simply

blockedbyisp.png

Im no graphic designer so apologies for the roughness of the image.

28-02-2009 4:18am

Are irish broadband/eircom connected? Don't know much (anything) about ISPs connections with each other (what I'm saying is, if Eircom enforce this, will it automatically apply to IBB aswell, or are they two completely seperate providers with no connection whatsoever, except that they are both in the same business?)

iamlegend2008 wrote: »

Hi

Further to my earlier post in this thread, here's a sample image that could be used to get the point across pretty simply

blockedbyisp.png

Im no graphic designer so apologies for the roughness of the image.

Its a good idea, I don't think it'd make much sense to people who have no idea what's going on. You'd need a small image (and url) that could be used as a signature, that would make people curios. suprised that blackout ireland group don't have a logo.

blubloblu · 28-02-2009 11:56am

http://www.blackoutireland.com
Is up.
Provides information about the whole situation and ways you can help.

28-02-2009 12:10pm

Has anyone here actually sent an email to their Internet provider?

blubloblu · 28-02-2009 2:34pm

Yes. And I know at least three others who have as well.

tanora78 · 28-02-2009 2:54pm

This post has been deleted.

EvilMonkey · 28-02-2009 3:30pm

blubloblu wrote: »

http://www.blackoutireland.com
Is up.
Provides information about the whole situation and ways you can help.

It should be greenoutireland!

silvine · 28-02-2009 7:49pm

I emailed Eamon Ryan, Three and UPC there. I also asked for a callback. I will post back here and let you know how I get on.

I'd encourage everyone here to do so too. The ISPs will be deciding over the next few days what course of action to take.

28-02-2009 8:52pm

andyrew120 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Yeah, sent one to Irish Broadband (My ISP). I doubt i'll get a reply, although i think i was pretty nice in my email. I only used the word "bastard" three times. (Im joking, of course).

thebman · 28-02-2009 9:06pm

silvine wrote: »

I emailed Eamon Ryan, Three and UPC there. I also asked for a callback. I will post back here and let you know how I get on.

I'd encourage everyone here to do so too. The ISPs will be deciding over the next few days what course of action to take.

Ah now, I doubt IRMA bothered contacting three :P

tanora78 · 28-02-2009 9:26pm

This post has been deleted.

blubloblu · 28-02-2009 9:28pm

I'm surprised that the letter Blacknight received from IRMA hasn't been posted yet. Good to know what exactly IRMA are threatening Irish ISPs with.

http://blog.blacknight.com/images/irmaletter.pdf

28-02-2009 9:30pm

If you've got a generic letter you're sendfing to the other guys, i see no harm in sending it to 02 or 3.

Got an automated reply from Irish Broadband (we got your email, etc. etc.)

Apparently IBB are under a company called Imagine who are Eircom's rival?

flash777er · 01-03-2009 12:03am

This is an excerpt of a letter sent by solictors representing IRMA to one of the non ISP companies. Note it basically asks them to agree to comply with their wishes or they will invoke section 40(4) before you commit a crime which is legal bull****

To Company

Please confirm that company will also work with the record industry to end the abuse of the internet by peer to peer infringers and that it will, if it receives IP addresses from the record companies of persons that they detect illegally uploading or downloading copyright works, operate a similar graduated response and that it will disconnect the subscriber in default of compliance.
We should add by way of elaboration that it is not intended that there be any disclosure to our clients of the identity of person(s) denoted by the IP addresses at the time in question.
In the event of a positive response to this letter, it is proposed to make practical arrangements with company of a like nature to those made with eircom.
In the event of a negative response to this letter, section 40(4) of the Act will be invoked against company and proceedings instituted
We are writing to other ISPs in similar terms
While we appreciate that this is a matter in respect of which you would wish to obtain legal advice, in the circumstances we must request a response within seven days of the date of this letter.

The solictors website can be found here.

Please feel free to write to them or visit them en masse
http://www.sheehydonnelly.com/helen_sheehy.htm

More Info at
http://www.blackoutireland.com/

01-03-2009 12:26am

I love the part...

in the circumstances we must request a response within seven days

As if it's some huge rush now or something. Like people have only just discovered illegal downloading, and they're trying to stop it before it goes widespread. :rolleyes:

I have a question that's probably been asked and answered a couple of hundred thousand times in other threads, but how come TV stations/DVD people don't care about illegal downloading?

I know films aren't as easily downloaded, and they most likely still make a killing on their openings and DVD sales (although im sure DVD sales have dropped somewhat?) and TV shows probably aren't affected so much as they still get aired on TV so the money from advertisements are still being received, but it seems odd that they haven't jumped in on this, too.

blubloblu · 01-03-2009 12:43am

Deleted User wrote: »

I love the part...

As if it's some huge rush now or something. Like people have only just discovered illegal downloading, and they're trying to stop it before it goes widespread. :rolleyes:

I have a question that's probably been asked and answered a couple of hundred thousand times in other threads, but how come TV stations/DVD people don't care about illegal downloading?

I know films aren't as easily downloaded, and they most likely still make a killing on their openings and DVD sales (although im sure DVD sales have dropped somewhat?) and TV shows probably aren't affected so much as they still get aired on TV so the money from advertisements are still being received, but it seems odd that they haven't jumped in on this, too.

The movie industry make good money from the Box Office. A pirate can't replace the cinema experience.
DVDs are far more reasonably priced if you compare how many times more the production costs are for a movie compared to an album.
The producer of Lost and Heroes has said he doesn't think file sharing is a bad thing http://blog.wired.com/business/2008/07/heroes-producer.html
Also, the tv networks in america are offering free viewing of tv shows the day after they air. Unfortunately these are most often blocked to viewers outside the USA. Southparkstudios.com being an exception.

01-03-2009 1:23am

blubloblu wrote: »

The movie industry make good money from the Box Office. A pirate can't replace the cinema experience.
DVDs are far more reasonably priced if you compare how many times more the production costs are for a movie compared to an album.
The producer of Lost and Heroes has said he doesn't think file sharing is a bad thing http://blog.wired.com/business/2008/07/heroes-producer.html
Also, the tv networks in america are offering free viewing of tv shows the day after they air. Unfortunately these are most often blocked to viewers outside the USA. Southparkstudios.com being an exception.

I agree with what you say, and I doubt it is costing them anywhere near as much as it is costing music people, but I just kinda expected the movie/TV show people would jump in too, for the sake of it, if nothing else.

Didn'y rapidshare get taken to court before, too?

From Rapidshare's Wiki page:

Some ISPs intentionally block sharing sites like RapidShare so as to avoid legal issues due to the propagation of pirated copyrighted material.I][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed"]citation needed[/URL][/I
On 19th January 2007 the German collections agency GEMA claimed to have won a temporary injunction against both RapidShare.de and RapidShare.com. "The latter is said to have used copyright protected works of GEMA members in an unlawful fashion."[10]
Rapidshare started to check newly uploaded files against a database of files already reported as illegal. By comparing the files' MD5-hash the site would now prevent illegal files from being reuploaded. While this would be sufficient under United States law, it was later established in court that under German law it is not. That decision forced Rapidshare to check all the uploaded files before publishing them. [11]
A month later, Rapidshare stated on their website that "we will not spy out the files that our clients faithfully upload onto RapidShare, not now nor in future. We are against upload control and guarantee you that your files are safe with us and will not be opened by anyone else than yourself, unless you distribute the download link."

You'd think the IRMA guys would be better off going after sites like that, rather than the ISPs themselves.

Although, In saying that, I'm not the most knowledgeabe of what's going on at the moment, and still learning about it. Find it very interesting though, and can't see anything being blocked realistically.

EvilMonkey · 01-03-2009 1:49am

Deleted User wrote: »

I have a question that's probably been asked and answered a couple of hundred thousand times in other threads, but how come TV stations/DVD people don't care about illegal downloading?

I know films aren't as easily downloaded, and they most likely still make a killing on their openings and DVD sales (although im sure DVD sales have dropped somewhat?) and TV shows probably aren't affected so much as they still get aired on TV so the money from advertisements are still being received, but it seems odd that they haven't jumped in on this, too.

TV stations/DVD people, film industry, game industry don't have as big a presence in Ireland as the music industry, they are complaining lobbying etc... in other countries they do care about illegal downloading.

Nick_oliveri · 01-03-2009 2:24am

Its amazing, the IRMA could give any list of any websites in the court order, not one of them will actually be hosting these materials. BlackoutIreland tells the truth when it speaks of sites critical to RIAA being blocked.

How could they not object to the list? The courts are just an inconvenience for this new censorship. Theres no waiting around for it to happen. Its already happened. The precident has been set. Anyone with backing can now lobby to have sites removed. Imagine no moar boards....

I hope they block Bebo. I might lobby that actually, a whisper in the ear to an ignorant higher up and hey presto..

01-03-2009 2:29am

Evil Monkey, I like your sig. May i shamelessly steal it?

thebman · 01-03-2009 2:36am

blackoutireland.com is blacked out. Maybe its my ISP :eek:

*** eircom and Internet Censoring ***

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* eircom and Internet Censoring *