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DAB in Ireland: RTE multiplex closed

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,443 ✭✭✭reboot


    Driving between RTE and UK DAB stations ,car radio reception is as you know very poor,even with the small windscreen aerial and amp.
    Has anyone tried to improve on this set up with a mast head amp and proper exterior aerial?One problem I can forsee is the amp power supply not working on 12 volt DC,as in the home situation it would be supplied by a mains 12 volt DC supply,the signal coming back down the same lead as the DC goes up to the amp ,if you follow me?
    Thought I could make do until 2012 when the alledged switch over should happen in the UK situation,but now have been told this is not likely in N.Ireland until 2013.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,452 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    reboot wrote: »
    Thought I could make do until 2012 when the alledged switch over should happen in the UK situation,but now have been told this is not likely in N.Ireland until 2013.

    I think you're confusing radio and tv. The Digital Switchover is for television only and will probably happen in NI early to mid 2012.

    No definite switchoff date for analogue radio but a UK government report last year proposed that all UK national and the majority of local radio stations will be transmitted on DAB-only within 6 years i.e. end of 2015.

    Technical and regulatory planning is underway in Europe for the transition to all digital radio.

    Regarding your problem I would try an external roof mounted DAB aerial but as you may know we don't have complete national coverage and the commercial stations e.g. Newstalk are not there which is the main reason I normally stick with FM.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,443 ✭✭✭reboot


    The Cush wrote: »
    I think you're confusing radio and tv. The Digital Switchover is for television only and will probably happen in NI early to mid 2012.

    No definite switchoff date for analogue radio but a UK government report last year proposed that all UK national and the majority of local radio stations will be transmitted on DAB-only within 6 years i.e. end of 2015.

    Technical and regulatory planning is underway in Europe for the transition to all digital radio.

    Regarding your problem I would try an external roof mounted DAB aerial but as you may know we don't have complete national coverage and the commercial stations e.g. Newstalk are not there which is the main reason I normally stick with FM.
    Thanks for taking the time to replay.
    I was aware of the 2015 switch off ,but "Insider" had mentioned 2013 for NI.just in passing,agree with you lots of problems ahead.I cant receive much BBC FM as I am close th the border and get co.channel interference RTE on 104.6 ,same as local transponder for Radio 4 BBC.
    On the car radio end of things,where do I find an amp that will accept an exterior car aerial and power from 12volt DC?.Have looked at getting into a mains amp power supply and not easy to convert it to 12v dc.
    Thanks for the help.Is Sat radio here soon?


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,452 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    reboot wrote: »
    On the car radio end of things,where do I find an amp that will accept an exterior car aerial and power from 12volt DC?.Have looked at getting into a mains amp power supply and not easy to convert it to 12v dc.
    Thanks for the help.Is Sat radio here soon?

    Best bet is to check the yellow pages for a local car stereo installer who should give you best advice.

    I use something similar to this amplified DAB aerial.

    Regarding satellite radio I can't see a future for subscription radio services in Europe, some organisations plan to offer the service in future Solaris Mobile, Worldspace Europe and Ondas Media. Another downside is that ground based infill transmitters will also be required to ensure constant coverage especially in urban areas. Discussion on this site about sat radio.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,443 ✭✭✭reboot


    reboot wrote: »
    Driving between RTE and UK DAB stations ,car radio reception is as you know very poor,even with the small windscreen aerial and amp.
    Has anyone tried to improve on this set up with a mast head amp and proper exterior aerial?One problem I can forsee is the amp power supply not working on 12 volt DC,as in the home situation it would be supplied by a mains 12 volt DC supply,the signal coming back down the same lead as the DC goes up to the amp ,if you follow me?
    Thought I could make do until 2012 when the alledged switch over should happen in the UK situation,but now have been told this is not likely in N.Ireland until 2013.

    A little update on the car dab radio experiment on how to improve reception.
    I have disconnected the wires,ie the aerial going into the windscreen dab amplifier and connected a "proper" full wave band three aerial(quite small") on the outside of the car.Much improved results ,picking up RTE and BBC Muxs.(Situated in South Down.)
    Thinking about another solution,it would appear that the "House" Dab set-up can be moved to the car situation as follows.
    The band three "Fringe " mast head amp can be powered by a simple mod to the mains power supply which means it can be used in the car on 12v dc.Haven't tried the house set up in the car yet but can't see why it wouldn't work and be better and cheaper than buying an expensive car set up,and a bit more fun?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,459 ✭✭✭Heathen


    Hey lads..

    There is DAB in the south-east (Waterford) now... the multiplex is called Total+.. at the it has Beat, WLR, Tipp FM

    Happy days finally i have a use for that DAB radio i bought last year haha

    H


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,452 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Heathen wrote: »
    Hey lads..

    There is DAB in the south-east (Waterford) now... the multiplex is called Total+.. at the it has Beat, WLR, Tipp FM

    Happy days finally i have a use for that DAB radio i bought last year haha

    H

    What frequency is it using?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,459 ✭✭✭Heathen


    The Cush wrote: »
    What frequency is it using?

    channel 9b man


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    Heathen wrote: »
    channel 9b man

    Is it only the local services?


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,452 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Heathen wrote: »
    channel 9b man

    Thanks for that Heathen.

    Channel 9B is the Wexford Local DAB RRC-06 allocation for three sites Mt. Leinster, Gorey and Forth Mountain. I would have expected to see it on Channel 11C the South East Regional allocation.


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  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,101 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Elmo wrote: »
    Is it only the local services?

    Yes. Some areas can get the RTE DAB 'National' from Cork as well as this, though.

    Its a commercial trial service.


  • Registered Users Posts: 94 ✭✭Hissing Sideban


    Elmo wrote: »
    Is it only the local services?

    Not specifically, but they are relatively simple choices to implement to start with and offer the benefit that an easy comparison to the audio broadcast on FM is available.

    This is a trial DAB multiplex, operated by Total Broadcast, with the intention to get 'hands on' experience with the technology, and designed to facilitate the development of a cost effective transmission solution in the lead up to the expected rollout of more DAB/DAB+ multiplexes in a couple of years or so.

    The content, coding methods, bitrates and services are liable to change throughout the trial, and there is no guarantee that any services carried will eventually get a place on a permanent multiplex.
    Currently there are some relays of some of the local commercial stations from the area, as well as a couple of 'placeholders' - these have an audio loop of bridsong, one is using standard MPEG1 layer 2 at 192 kbps, and the other HE-AAC+ at 56kbps.

    It is currently transmitting from just outside Waterford City, but a high site south of Mt Leinster will be tested in a few weeks.

    All said , as 'Heathen' says, it is nice to see all those dormant DAB radios people seem to have acquired spring to life!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,319 ✭✭✭Trick of the Tail


    Shouldn't DAB discussion be on the 'Radio' forum?

    A.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,101 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    DAB is a terrestrial broadcast format, and this forum allows more technical discussion than Radio which is far more content and personality based.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,757 ✭✭✭lawhec


    The Cush wrote: »
    Thanks for that Heathen.

    Channel 9B is the Wexford Local DAB RRC-06 allocation for three sites Mt. Leinster, Gorey and Forth Mountain. I would have expected to see it on Channel 11C the South East Regional allocation.
    11C (220.352MHz) wouldn't be useable at present because of the analogue transmission of RTÉ 2's VHF Channel I (Video 215.25MHz & Audio 221.25MHz) from Mt. Leinster.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,478 ✭✭✭galtee boy


    Not specifically, but they are relatively simple choices to implement to start with and offer the benefit that an easy comparison to the audio broadcast on FM is available.

    This is a trial DAB multiplex, operated by Total Broadcast, with the intention to get 'hands on' experience with the technology, and designed to facilitate the development of a cost effective transmission solution in the lead up to the expected rollout of more DAB/DAB+ multiplexes in a couple of years or so.

    The content, coding methods, bitrates and services are liable to change throughout the trial, and there is no guarantee that any services carried will eventually get a place on a permanent multiplex.
    Currently there are some relays of some of the local commercial stations from the area, as well as a couple of 'placeholders' - these have an audio loop of bridsong, one is using standard MPEG1 layer 2 at 192 kbps, and the other HE-AAC+ at 56kbps.

    It is currently transmitting from just outside Waterford City, but a high site south of Mt Leinster will be tested in a few weeks.

    All said , as 'Heathen' says, it is nice to see all those dormant DAB radios people seem to have acquired spring to life!

    Will this commercial trial be done on any other multiplex's/transmitters or is it confined to the Waterford/South East area ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    All said , as 'Heathen' says, it is nice to see all those dormant DAB radios people seem to have acquired spring to life!

    Yeah it is good to see at least one commercial broadcaster start trails, even if it is after a high take up of DAB radios.


    Any other local broadcasters testing out DAB? Communicorp or UTV Media perhaps? How will it work of the multiregional licences?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,319 ✭✭✭Trick of the Tail


    The company running the trials, Total Broadcast Consultants, is not a commercial broadcaster - its a broadcast engineering company.

    Total have built many of the countries independent radio networks and stations in the past few years.

    Its likely to be a company like this, rather than Communicorp, that will run the commercial multiplexes in Ireland when they're licenced.

    A.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,452 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Question in the Dáil yesterday regarding DAB
    Broadcasting Services.

    68. Deputy Ruairí Quinn asked the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources the amount that has been spent on digital audio broadcasting radio here; if he will give details of the position regarding this project; his views on criticisms that DAB radio is outdated; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [16640/10]

    Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources (Deputy Eamon Ryan): The Broadcasting Act 2009 provides for the development of digital radio in Ireland. Under this Act, RTÉ is given the right to operate a multiplex for the purposes of providing a digital sound broadcasting service. The Broadcasting Authority of Ireland (BAI) is responsible for the development of commercial digital sound broadcasting services. The Commission for Communications Regulation (ComReg) is responsible for managing the spectrum and for licensing spectrum to both the BAI and RTÉ in respect of sound broadcasting services. In addition the Broadcasting Act provides an incentive, in the form of an extended licence term, for existing commercial radio stations to simulcast on a digital multiplex.

    From 2006 to 2008, RTÉ operated a trial of DAB services on a number of sites in Ireland. This trial also included commercial sound broadcasters. Since the trial ended RTÉ has received a licence from ComReg and has developed a number of new RTÉ sound broadcast stations specifically for their DAB service i.e. RTÉ Junior, RTÉ Choice, RTÉ Pulse, RTÉ Gold, RTÉ Chill and RTÉ 2xm. The present service is available in the greater Dublin area, the North East of the country, Cork City and Limerick City. Commercial radio stations are not available on this DAB service.

    In 2009 the BAI conducted research into digital radio and they plan to develop a policy for the licensing of commercial digital radio services in Ireland this year. The amount spent on DAB in Ireland to date is an operational issue for RTÉ and the BAI. I have asked both organisations to revert to the Deputy with this information. Unlike the case of digital television, there is no imperative on broadcasters to “go digital” – this is purely a commercial decision for broadcasters.

    I am supportive of the development of digital radio. Digital radio provides opportunities for the development of more radio channels which can offer a greater variety of content and more choice for listeners. In addition, digital radio offers the potential to provide value added services such as data information services. In this regard, digital radio is seen as an opportunity for sound broadcasters to expand their businesses and to provide innovative and novel content to their audience. The choice of technology for digital radio services is one for broadcasters and the BAI. As with all new technologies, these are constantly evolving and improving and there are a number of factors - practical, economic, spectrum efficiency, timing, technological, consumer cost and service related issues that will need to be considered by broadcasters and the BAI in making the technology choices.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭STB


    alinton wrote: »
    The company running the trials, Total Broadcast Consultants, is not a commercial broadcaster - its a broadcast engineering company.

    Total have built many of the countries independent radio networks and stations in the past few years.

    Its likely to be a company like this, rather than Communicorp, that will run the commercial multiplexes in Ireland when they're licenced.

    A.

    Similar to what Dusty was doing in Dublin, Andy ?

    Of course the trial wont guarantee a full licence to run a mux. How long is the trial period for ? Presumably only licensed stations can be carried. Who are you carrying SER and or Beat ? Had you got this on when you were running Zenith and were you allow relay it ?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    alinton wrote: »
    Total have built many of the countries independent radio networks and stations in the past few years.

    How many local networks do they own?


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,101 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Elmo wrote: »
    How many local networks do they own?

    They don't "own" any.

    They've provided the technical services (licence applications through to the actual implementation) for a good % of recently launched services though and I'd presume some of the existing ones use them too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,153 ✭✭✭bkehoe


    STB wrote: »
    Who are you carrying SER and or Beat ? Had you got this on when you were running Zenith and were you allow relay it ?

    Currently on the mux is:
    Beat - 160k
    South East Radio - 128k
    Tipp FM - 128k
    WLR FM - 128k
    Total - 192k birdsong loop
    Total + - 56k DAB+ birdsong loop


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    MYOB wrote: »
    They don't "own" any.

    They've provided the technical services (licence applications through to the actual implementation) for a good % of recently launched services though and I'd presume some of the existing ones use them too.

    So in other words the are consultants for the company who will ultimately get the licence. In this case I assume that they are working for WLR FM and Tipp FM.

    I also assume that they may work for Communicorp or UTV when they start to look for digital licence or even digital tests.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,319 ✭✭✭Trick of the Tail


    Elmo wrote: »
    So in other words the are consultants for the company who will ultimately get the licence. In this case I assume that they are working for WLR FM and Tipp FM.

    I also assume that they may work for Communicorp or UTV when they start to look for digital licence or even digital tests.


    No. Total Broadcast is not working for anyone in this venture, they are conducting the research and product development for themselves, with a view to developing a cost-effective method of delivering DAB(+).

    The licence that Total have from ComReg to run the tests is not one that allows the service to be made public or run commercially, so any content that is carried is done so purely to HAVE content, not in exchange for payment.

    Total Broadcast will work for anyone who asks them to - thats what they do.

    A.


  • Registered Users Posts: 887 ✭✭✭byrnefm


    So, that means that Total + is the first DAB+ service running in Ireland then? (High quality bird song. Cool :D )

    I've a few questions relating to RTÉ Chill that I was asked about recently but due to my location, I only get the two NI Muxes, so couldn't answer but I knew a place where I could ask! :) I was asked if RTÉ Chill takes over from RTÉ Junior at night time and also, what is the bitrate for this station and is it in stereo?

    Thanks in advance!


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    alinton wrote: »
    No. Total Broadcast is not working for anyone in this venture, they are conducting the research and product development for themselves, with a view to developing a cost-effective method of delivering DAB(+).

    The licence that Total have from ComReg to run the tests is not one that allows the service to be made public or run commercially, so any content that is carried is done so purely to HAVE content, not in exchange for payment.

    Total Broadcast will work for anyone who asks them to - thats what they do.

    A.

    Well done to Total for launching some tests without the indo stations. Who is funding the tests?


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    byrnefm wrote: »
    I was asked if RTÉ Chill takes over from RTÉ Junior at night time and also, what is the bitrate for this station and is it in stereo?

    Chill takes over from 9pm according to the RTÉ website
    RTÉ Junior is Ireland's first children's only radio service. Aimed at children aged 2 to 12 the service is all about music, fun and entertainment. RTÉ Junior broadcasts chart music when older children might be listening to the radio and during the day when senior juniors are at school the station broadcasts nursery rhymes and story songs for children from 2 to 5 years of age. At 7pm there are bedtime stories and lullabies for younger radio listeners while at 8pm there are audio books for the 'Not So Junior' members of the family. At 9pm RTÉ Chill, a late night service of electronica, ambient and chill-out music, takes over from RTÉ Junior until 7am the next morning.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,683 ✭✭✭Kensington


    byrnefm wrote: »
    I've a few questions relating to RTÉ Chill that I was asked about recently but due to my location, I only get the two NI Muxes, so couldn't answer but I knew a place where I could ask! :) I was asked if RTÉ Chill takes over from RTÉ Junior at night time and also, what is the bitrate for this station and is it in stereo?
    9pm - 7am is the broadcast hours, it timeshares with Junior which broadcasts 7am - 9pm.
    AFAIK, it is MP2 Stereo at 128Kbps.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 887 ✭✭✭byrnefm


    Wow, that was fast - thanks for your replies, Elmo & Kensignton!


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