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General Election 2012
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29-02-2012 10:12pmIf a general election were called tomorrow, who would you intend on voting for?
There's a lot of ignorant, anti-governmental rambling going on in After Hours, generally by people who haven't the faintest idea what they're talking about. I hold the opinion that we have the second best government possible right now, behind a FG only government. With people talking about how "shíte" the government are, I'm interested to know who you would vote for if given the opportunity tomorrow.
It'll also be good to measure the results vs the upcoming publishing of the latest Red C poll results to see just how outlandish the people of Boards.ie are.
Options are:
Fine Gael
Fianna Fail
Sinn Fein
Labour
Green
Spoiled Vote
Wouldn't Vote
Independents excluded for obvious reasons.
Poll should attach shortly.Who would you vote for? General Election 2012 276 votes
Fine Gael0% 0 votesFianna Fail30% 84 votesLabour8% 24 votesSinn Fein7% 22 votesGreen Party39% 110 votesSpoiled Vote4% 12 votesWouldn't Vote8% 24 votes0
Comments
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Well not FF... or FG... or Labour. So Sinn Fein I guess?
Cake, and grief counseling, will be available at the conclusion of the test
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Anarcho-Capitalist Libertarian Objectivist Party (ACLOP).0
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Red C have an option for independant and the vote counts the same as any other0
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Fine Gael.
The best of a bad lot IMO.0 -
Vote Quimby. :cool:0
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No option for Inds or People Before Profit or the Socialists?0
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A vote for Sinn Féin is a vote for Ireland Ink.0
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I just put in the options that would form a government if an election was called tomorrow. I'm sure people have independents or similar that they'd LIKE to be in government, however the back bench and futility is what they're destined to with the current system, so we may as well be realistic.
I'd like a lot of things, but they're not going to happen. However, the above mentioned parties will be those forming the next government and presumably many more to come, so hence the only listed choices for the time being.0 -
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i would vote NO0
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Sinn Fein, not because I like them so much but because they havn't had a chance to disappoint me yet
Also missing option: Independents. If SF get into power make a balls of it thats all I'll have left to vote for0 -
I'd Vote FG, with the hope they get an Overall Majority0
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Why so much support for FG? They're making a right balls of it at the minute..0
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The IDP. I have absolutely no idea what their policies are, who they consist of or, well, anything about them really...
... but Biggins has them in his sig and well... that's good enough for me God damn it!0 -
i always voted fianna fail.. only party that i agree with on most issues
*runs away and hides from all the FF bashers0 -
Where's "Other" and/or "Independent" ?0
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Why so much support for FG? They're making a right balls of it at the minute..
Like the previous FG government, they're going to hold the reins and get the country back on track after a disastrous previous government. They'll make tough, unpopular but necessary decisions which will cost them their chances at a re-election, but the job will be done. Then the Irish electorate can go on and vote for whoever promises the most amount of spending/least taxing without ever considering the consequences...again.
They did very well in opposition and they've done very well in Government and Enda is, without a doubt, the best...or at last the very least embarrassing...leader that we've had in decades.0 -
chocksaway wrote: »i always voted fianna fail.. only party that i agree with on most issues
*runs away and hides from all the FF bashers0 -
I, and many others, feel the opposite. I think they've done a very good job with what they've been given so far and have represented the country exceptionally well at international level.
Like the previous FG government, they're going to hold the reins and get the country back on track after a disastrous previous government. They'll make tough, unpopular but necessary decisions which will cost them their chances at a re-election, but the job will be done. Then the Irish electorate can go on and vote for whoever promises the most amount of spending/least taxing without ever considering the consequences...again.
They did very well in opposition and they've done very well in Government and Enda is, without a doubt, the best...or at last the very least embarrassing...leader that we've had in decades.
You forgot one of these :rolleyes:
Or maybe your idea of representing Ireland exceptionally well at international level is doing whatever our international partners ask of us in order to protect their interests.Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis
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pragmatic1 wrote: »Why not vote FG. Both parties are almost identical except FG at least have a bit of integrity...
:pac:
To repeat someting I posted in another thread...
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=77359056#post77359056The amount of U-turns, inactions and lies in their (and Labours's) already short term in office, is absolutely unreal.
Definitely FF and Green Party part two!I have just a few doubts about him and what he allows to (or not!) happen as top man - just a few...
...And he's only done/allowed the below in just over a year!
Bondholders
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“Is it Labour’s way or Frankfurt way” – Eamon Gilmore; “Fine Gael in Government will force certain classes of bondholders to share in the cost of recapitalising troubled financial institutions” – Manifesto.
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In government, they refuse to impose losses on the €3.5 billion of unsecured, unguaranteed senior bondholders at Anglo Irish Bank and Irish Nationwide Building Society (INBS).
They are still refusing to burn them! Amazing!
Third Level Fees
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“Labour is opposed to third-level fees by either the front or back doors” – Gilmore.
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Now Quinn refuses to rule out increased student fees in the future. Student Services Charge.
NOW FEES HAVE GONE UP!
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Quinn signed a USI election pledge to reverse the €500 increase in the Student Services Charge in Budget 2011.
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Refused to do so once in Government, and won’t rule out increases to it in the future.
Recapitalisation
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Varadkar said that “not another red cent” would be put into the banks.
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The Central Bank announced in March 2011 that the banks would require €24bn. €19bn of this met by the taxpayer July 2011.
Another 1.25 BILLION went to the banks in bailout in January 2012!
Bank Directors
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Pledged to “re-structure boards and replace and directors who presided over
failed lending practices.”
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BOI appointed 4 pre-2008 directors; AIB has 3 non-exec directors still in
place; Irish Life and Permanent still has one.
Force Banks to Cut their Interest Rates
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The Programme for Government promised that banks in receipt of state
support would be forced to forego a 25 basis point increase on their variable
rate mortgage.
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Despite cuts by the ECB to interest rates, NIB is pressing ahead with raising
rates, and other banks are refusing to lower theirs.
Sell the EBS
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During the election Fine Gael pledged to sell EBS.
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EBS has now been merged with AIB.
Medium Term Loans to Irish Banks
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Michael Noonan “We need medium-term facilities from the ECB so that the
liquidity problems in the Irish banks are not addressed on a fortnightly basis
with a rollover of the liquidity funding every two weeks.”
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It now appears this is not going to happen – The ECB rejected it.
The EU-IMF Deal
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The EU/IMF deal was a “bad deal for Ireland.” ( Eamon Gilmore), “a disaster
and an obscenity” (Micheal Noonan)
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After election: Eamon Gilmore said: “It was never going to be the case that
the renegotiation of the agreement was something that was going to be done
in one great big bang.”
Income Tax
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FG 5 point plan: No new taxes including no income tax increases
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Minister Noonan: “I am not going to rule out any tax initiative, or any tax
increase or any tax reduction.”
Universal Social Charge NOW INCREASED TO €132 A MONTH
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The PfG states: “We will review the Universal Social Charge”.
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No review now forthcoming; Noonan robustly defends the levy in the Dail
saying the “universal social charge is progressive.” He added: “It is hard to
argue that is regressive; that is one of the more progressive taxes one will
find.”
Budget 2011
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FG & Lab voted against Budget 2011.
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Now it seems they’re only too happy to take ownership of the budget and
boast about the adjustments that have been achieved to date.
More Pay Cuts to Public Servants
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They opposed the public sector pension levy – “It is a crude and unfair
system.” (Brendan Howlin)
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Now they won’t rule out more cuts to public service pay.
Jobs Budget
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FG promised a Jobs Budget within 100 days.
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The jobs budget then became a mere revenue neutral “jobs initiative”, with no
jobs target.
Getting People Back to Work
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FG Election Slogan: Let’s Get Ireland Working
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Latest Live Register figures show unemployment stagnant – the jobs initiative
failed, the New Era jobs didn’t materialise, and the Medium Term Fiscal
Statement acknowledges unemployment will rise next year.
New Era Jobs
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Enda Kenny boasted that “New Era plan will create over 105,000 jobs.”
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At its launch in Sept, there was no mention of jobs it would create, and no
mention of cost.
New Era Funding
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The Programme for Government and the Fine Gael manifesto state that it
would funded through the sale of state assets.
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However, the EU/IMF agreement clearly states -“It is important to make
effective use of our state assets and, where appropriate, dispose of them to
help reduce our government debt.”
State Assets
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Programme for Government: “We will target up to €2 billion in sales of nonstrategic
state assets.”
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It now looks like up to €5bn of assets, strategic or otherwise, will be sold.
Strategic Investment Bank
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The Programme for Government states “we will establish a Strategic
Investment Bank”.
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Kenny, September 2011: “A Strategic Investment Bank would be difficult to
implement in current market conditions.”
Upward Only Rent Reviews
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The Programme for Govt states: “We will legislate to end upward only rent
reviews for existing leases.”
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Each time the Justice Minister has been asked about it, he’s fudged the issue.
Protecting the Low Paid
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Labour Manifesto pledged to reform JLCs in a way that protects the most
vulnerable workers.
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Jobs Minister Richard Bruton is dragging his feet on introducing a reformed
JLC system, leaving workers vulnerable since July.
Competition & Consumer Protection
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FG Manifesto: Promised a new “powerful consumer champion”, giving it
“additional powers – by constitutional change if necessary – to break up
public and private sector monopolies and cartels.”
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No mention of this in Competition Bill 2011, and no commitment to
constitutional change.
Ban on Corporate Donations
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The Programme for Government clearly states “we will introduce the
necessary legal and constitutional provisions to ban corporate donations to
political parties.”
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The Bill allows corporate donations to continue and Enda Kenny has
confirmed that there will be no constitutional ban put to the people.
Severance Pay for Senior Civil Servants
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There will be no more “golden handshakes” for public servants that have
failed to deliver.
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Big payoffs for senior civil servants continue.
Reducing the number of TDs
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FG had previously promised to reduce the number of TDs by 20
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The Electoral Act proposes a cut of as little as 6 TDs.
Constitution Day
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Enda Kenny, April 2011: “We will set out a programme to allow for a series of
constitutional amendments to be decided on what we called “Constitution
day”, to be held within 12 months of the new Government being formed.”
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Little mention of it since
The Seanad
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Both parties pledged to abolish the Seanad.
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There was no mention in the legislative agenda of legislation to scrap the
Seanad.
Child Benefit
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During the election campaign Eamon Gilmore identified child benefit as a red
line issue. Labour’s “Every Little Hurts" advertising campaign lambasted Fine
Gael for their proposed cuts in the child benefit rates
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Joan Burton has since refused to give an explicit commitment on child benefit
rates.
NOW BEING CUT.
Social Welfare Rates
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The Programme for Government clearly states “We will maintain social
welfare rates”
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Joan Burton has continuously refused to give an explicit commitment on
headline rates.
National Educational Psychological Service
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Ruairi Quinn promised to provide “€3m to reverse the cut in the National
Educational Psychological Service.”
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He has made no mention of this commitment since then
Water Charges & Utility Charges
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Labour previously said they would be opposed to the introduction of flat rate
water charges “A flat water charge is not something that we’re going to
introduce.”
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The government has now admitted that two charges are on the way by 2013,
a flat rate household utility charge (by 2012) and water charges.
Household Charge
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“We’re not in favour of a tax on the family home” – Gilmore
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July 2011: Phil Hogan announced the introduction of a €100 flat rate
household charge which is to be applied to the 1.6 million households in the
country.
Irish Water
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Fine Gael’s plans for the setting up of a new water company introducing water
charges featured heavily in its New Politics policy document published in
March 2010.
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However, FG has now admitted that they have no plan for the setting up of
this company, no idea of the timeline involved and have also admitted that
there are significant legal and administrative changes involved in transferring
water services from local authorities to the new water company.
Stag Hunting
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FG Manifesto p27: “Fine Gael will reverse the ban on stag hunting”; Junior
Minister Shane McEntee (Meath East) told the Seanad on 25th Oct that
legislation reversing the ban was forthcoming.
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8th Nov – Kenny spokesperson: McEntee was “expressing an opinion” and
there was “no commitment” to reverse the ban.
Turf Cutting
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Fine Gael Manifesto: “It is premature to cease the cutting of turf for domestic
purposes in 2011”; Roscommon TD Frank Feighan said he would “sign in his
own blood” the future of turf-cutting.
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27th Sept: Deenihan signs regulations making turf cutting on Special Areas of
Conservation a criminal offence, and allows for the confiscation of turf cutting machinery.
Climate Change
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Programme for Government: “We will publish a Climate Change Bill.”
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This was dropped by Phil Hogan in November 2011.
Garda Numbers
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Shatter said in December 2010 that a reduction in Garda numbers would
“obstruct the battle against crime”
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“The job of this Government is to reduce public expenditure, not to increase it.
That is as applicable across the justice sector as it is in other sectors.”
Triple Lock
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FG manifesto: “We believe that the Triple Lock must be modified to allow
Ireland participate in peacekeeping missions. The failure of the UN Security
Council to pass a resolution should not prevent us from taking part in
overseas missions.”
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Shatter: “As matters stand the triple lock remains part and parcel of Govt.
policy”.
Government Jet
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FG Manifesto: “We will introduce a new code of practice for the use of the
government jet ensuring cost effective and transparent travel. To stamp out
any abuse, cheaper commercial alternatives must be taken when possible.”
Transport spokesperson Simon Coveney said last year: Jets were “being
abused” by Ministers.
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Oct 2011: Jet had been used 24 times at a total cost to the taxpayer of almost
€14m, including a trip to Cork for the Taoiseach and a trip to Algeria for
Coveney.
Junior Ministers
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FG pledged they would cut the number of junior Ministers to 12.
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Once elected they appointed 15 Junior Ministers.
Quangos
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Fine Gael pledged to abolish 145 quangos in their document Reinventing
Government.
•
By end Oct 2011, they had abolished 5, but had created 8.
Guillotining of Legislation
•
Enda Kenny, July 2010: “I do not accept the Government’s guillotining of Bills
in any shape or form.”
•
By November 2011 they had guillotined almost a dozen Bills.
Staff in Constituency Offices
•
FG pledged to reduce ministerial staff allocated to work on constituency
matters to two per Minister
•
In March 2011 it was announced that ministers will keep 4 staff each in their
constituency office.
Constituency Work
•
Enda Kenny promised to direct all Ministers to focus entirely on their new
portfolios in the first 100 days and completely avoid constituency work.
•
However, Kenny himself repeatedly broke this promise with dozens of
appointments in Mayo every week.
Ministers’ Advisors
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Ministerial advisors will be subject to salary caps
•
Most Ministers’ advisors have breached the cap.
Cronyism
•
They promised an end to cronyism and transparency in board appointments.
•
FG & Labour members and donors have been appointed as Judges and to
the boards of Quangos.
Transparency in Appointments
•
FG and Lab Manifestos: They promised vetting of appointments to state
boards by the Oireachtas.
•
Party political appointments have been made, without any oversight or
transparency. In October 2011, they appointed the former head of AIB
Investment Management as head of the New Era quango, without revealing
her pay or conditions.
Freedom of Information
•
Programme for Government promised to legislate to restore the Freedom of
Information Act.
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No commitment for when legislation will be published on this.
...And thats not including any latest stuff!0 -
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Why are so many posters showing up as "Closed Account" in this thread ?
Anyway, that aside, of the options shown my answer would be "Spoiled Vote", but in reality it would probably be Independent or - if they ever decide to go nationwide and convince me that they're not Dublin-focussed - IDP.0 -
pragmatic1 wrote: »Why not vote FG. Both parties are almost identical except FG at least have a bit of integrity and didnt destroy the country.
FF didnt destroy the country per se... moronic members of the public, developers, individuals working in the financial sector and memebers of the FF party did... not the party itself. FG have shown themselves to be the greatest turn-coats I have ever seen0 -
I want the names and addresses of anyone that voted Fianna Fail0
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Liam Byrne wrote: »Why are so many posters showing up as "Closed Account" in this thread ?
Anyway, that aside, of the options shown my answer would be "Spoiled Vote", but in reality it would probably be Independent or - if they ever decide to go nationwide and convince me that they're not Dublin-focussed - IDP.
I'd hope that would be the Party shills being flushed out of the system0 -
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chocksaway wrote: »FF didnt destroy the country per se...
O' dear gawd!
Ya poor ill-informed person!
Here is a help!: http://unitedpeople.ie/fail.html
(my OWN site)0 -
Biggins its a pity you don't understand the difference between a FG Govt. and a FG/LAB coalition Govt. It's no use just grabbing whatever you want from the FG manifesto and calling it a broken promise.... compromises obviously had to be made with Labour and vice versa
I've corrected you on some of the ridiculous points that you seem to still be comfortable repeating. I'll cover a few of them again.
1. Losses HAVE been imposed on classes of bondholders (Junior bondholders).
2. Recapitalisation - Varadkar wasn't speaking the FG line on the issue, and its unfair to even imply that many people had known he had said that before they voted. Also, apparently the Govt has not put in any more money than what the previous Govt had already committed. But still, taking one quote from one minister that contradicted everything else FG had been saying, and claiming it represents FG policy is unfair.
3. I'm not even sure what your point titled "EU-IMF deal" is even trying to say.
4. Review on USC - the charge was reduced (abolished?) for low income earners afaik.
5. Public sector cuts - again, this point is another example of where you take the opinion of one member of one party and attempt to pass it off as some sort of joint FG/LAB policy. Even still, Theres nothing contradictory between opposing a pension levy but not opposing pay cuts
6. New Era funding - if you paid any attention at all, you would have heard that this aspect has been renegotiated to an extent
7. State assets: it has been renegotiated down to 3bn.
8. Upward only rent review - has it not been stated clearly that such legislation is simply not possible, due to the constitution?
9. Severance pay - the only big payoffs that are continuing are the ones for contracts that were agreed by previous governments.
10. Constitution day - it was announced the other day that preparations are in full swing.
11. Jobs budget, afaik this was renamed to 'initiative' before the election. Even still, I don't see how the fact that it was revenue neutral can warrant a complaint. Are we only allowed to like things that increase our deficit?
12. Seanad Reform - just do a quick Google and you'll find many articles saying its on the way. IIRC its due up this year
I hope you're not going to play the "oh don't blame me I was just copying and pasting" card.
The only reasonable complaints are the occasional PFG ones and the internal things (advisors, appointments etc)0 -
:pac:
To repeat someting I posted in another thread...
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=77359056#post77359056
...And thats not including any latest stuff!
No doubt you, and others, would say they should honour the pre-election promises they make. And many would add, “at the very least”. But the implication that this is a minimal standard is contrary to the observed reality. And not just here and now, but for any election I can remember and I expect, in any other democratic country too.
Can you cite an example of ANY government not backtracking or reneging on at least some promises when they came to power in difficult times, or even good times? I certainly can not, nor do I expect I ever will.
And for a very simple reason. The cost to a politician of telling the unvarnished truth before an election is greater than the cost of broken promises once they assume power. The latter can be largely repaired by time (the people really do forget). So if the reneging is done in the early stages of the administration and if some sweetener is thrown in near its end (e.g. SSIA) then it is simply in the best interest of any political party to make all manner of dubious promises before an election, because that will serve them better. Simple as.
The electorate could of course put a stop to this if the retained their memories better and were prepared to act accordinly. But they don’t, and I think won’t. Instead (to cite something I posted elsewhere ) many of us repeatedly have unrealistic, idealistic expectations from new parties, or parties not recently in power (e.g. The Greens before ’07, the PDs in their early years, Labour in ’92 and currently Sinn Fein). And invariably, we end up saying “they are no better than the last shower”
So maybe comparisons with an ideal party that does not, will not and I would say, can not exist, perhaps we should compare the performance of FG and Lab with what might have been reasonably expected from them. And IMO, while we are still in a bad place, it is as good as might have hoped for a year ago.0 -
Biggins its a pity you don't understand the difference between a FG Govt. and a FG/LAB coalition Govt. It's no use just grabbing whatever you want from the FG manifesto and calling it a broken promise.... compromises obviously had to be made with Labour and vice versa
I've corrected you on some of the ridiculous points that you seem to still be comfortable repeating. I'll cover a few of them again.
1. Losses HAVE been imposed on classes of bondholders (Junior bondholders).
...But not on ALL of what they said they would - the BIG guys have amazingly got away!
2. Recapitalisation - Varadkar wasn't speaking the FG line on the issue, and its unfair to even imply that many people had known he had said that before they voted. Also, apparently the Govt has not put in any more money than what the previous Govt had already committed. But still, taking one quote from one minister that contradicted everything else FG had been saying, and claiming it represents FG policy is unfair.
Spin and more spin...
3. I'm not even sure what your point titled "EU-IMF deal" is even trying to say.
*sigh*
4. Review on USC - the charge was reduced (abolished?) for low income earners afaik.
...Well darn - it hasn't happened to my parents (who has to pay for MANY drugs for my brother who is physically and mentally handicapped - as well as MANY that are in a carers organisation which they and I area part of!)
There is very many dozens I personally know that would like to see your verification of this.
5. Public sector cuts - again, this point is another example of where you take the opinion of one member of one party and attempt to pass it off as some sort of joint FG/LAB policy. Even still, Theres nothing contradictory between opposing a pension levy but not opposing pay cuts.
Its my opinion that your wrong.
We will agree to disagree!
6. New Era funding - if you paid any attention at all, you would have heard that this aspect has been renegotiated to an extent
7. State assets: it has been renegotiated down to 3bn.
Really - it really has? Link?
I ask because as of the 14th last month even FG on their OWN site was saying the following: http://www.finegael.ie/latest-news/2012/02/14/successful-renegotiation-continues-as-state-asset-proceeds-to-go-towards-job-creation-%E2%80%93-english/
Fine Gael TD for Meath West and Chair of the Oireachtas Committee on Jobs, Social Protection and Education, Damien English, has said confirmation that money raised from the sale of State assets will go towards job creation is proof that the Government is continuing to successfully renegotiate the bailout deal with the Troika.
* By the way, TV3 even tonight during discussions mentioned that they are not and said that Enda openly stated in the Dail that they are not doing it also in very certain areas and now won't do in the ten weeks we have before the vote takes place on this next referendum!
Eamon O'Cuiv agreed!
TV3 was willing to show (as they have done a number of times) the live recording of him stating this - and still are!
8. Upward only rent review - has it not been stated clearly that such legislation is simply not possible, due to the constitution?
...(a) And if FG knew this - why did they state the previous?
O' right - they needed votes!
...(b) Next might come a claim "well they only found this out later!"
(But if they actually knew what they were talking about and having studied the matter CORRECTLY, they would have known this, they would have tried to address this issue and taken it to the public. Did they? NO!
...But they did take the advantageous winnable part and saved the excuse part till later!
9. Severance pay - the only big payoffs that are continuing are the ones for contracts that were agreed by previous governments.
*sigh*
10. Constitution day - it was announced the other day that preparations are in full swing.
Hurray! At last after MUCH prodding and pressure!
How long will that be drawn out now?
11. Jobs budget, afaik this was renamed to 'initiative' before the election. Even still, I don't see how the fact that it was revenue neutral can warrant a complaint. Are we only allowed to like things that increase our deficit?
What FG does after an election is in their OWN hands.
They being elected to run and change things were need, have no excuse.
They then make the necessary changes? Did they fcuk!
I hope you're not going to play the "oh don't blame me I was just copying and pasting" card.
The only reasonable complaints are the occasional PFG ones and the internal things (advisors, appointments etc)
I'll say one thing, your funny!
Just on the point:0 -
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There's a lot of ignorant, anti-governmental rambling going on in After Hours, generally by people who haven't the faintest idea what they're talking about. I hold the opinion that we have the second best government possible right now, behind a FG only government.
It'll also be good to measure the results vs the upcoming publishing of the latest Red C poll results to see just how outlandish the people of Boards.ie are.
Outlandish posting on boards.ie indeed.0
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