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Fiscal Compact Referendum 2012

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Comments

  • #2
    Penn
    Registered Users Posts: 33,199 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    It's the right decision to allow the referendum, but I'd have to do more research to decide which way I'd vote.


  • #3
    Turtwig
    Registered Users Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    There goes all possibility of any meaningful or rational discourse down the drain. I expect this to be an absolute farce of epic proportions.


  • #4
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,557 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    How long before someone suggests if we vote "yes" to the Fiscal Compact Referendum that abortion will be made compulsory?

    I think I'll just vote the opposite to people/groups I don't like.


  • #5
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,395 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Dades wrote: »
    I'll just vote the opposite to people/groups I don't like.
    Same tactics as the no-side, eh?


  • #6
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,557 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    robindch wrote: »
    Same tactics as the no-side, eh?
    Yes, but they're wrong. :pac:


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  • #7
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,316 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    Sigh, gonna be some cluster****.


  • #8
    fisgon
    Registered Users Posts: 1,747 ✭✭✭fisgon


    Is there an atheist perspective on this? Can't really see how whether you are a believer in an all powerful deity or not will effect how you vote on this, or what your views will be.


  • #9
    Turtwig
    Registered Users Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    fisgon wrote: »
    Is there an atheist perspective on this? Can't really see how whether you are a believer in an all powerful deity or not will effect how you vote on this, or what your views will be.

    The regulars round these parts tend to be rational and less swayed by emotional chagrin and irrelevant political strawmen.


  • #10
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,395 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    fisgon wrote: »
    Can't really see how whether you are a believer in an all powerful deity or not will effect how you vote on this
    http://www.coircampaign.org/index.php/news-articles/recent-news/329-budget-lashes-families-and-the-vulnerable-in-eu-takeover-of-irish-economy-


  • #11
    ShooterSF
    Registered Users Posts: 8,824 ✭✭✭ShooterSF


    Uck. Last time I was against Lisbon (twice) and was so sick of the company I was in. Here's hoping this one's a lot better or failing that, the crazies end up on the yes side.


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  • #12
    fisgon
    Registered Users Posts: 1,747 ✭✭✭fisgon


    robindch wrote: »
    http://www.coircampaign.org/index.php/news-articles/recent-news/329-budget-lashes-families-and-the-vulnerable-in-eu-takeover-of-irish-economy-

    Actually this website is fascinating, and laugh-out-loud hilarious in parts. Have a look at this page, and especially at the comments.

    http://www.coircampaign.org/index.php/about-coir-camp/who-we-are

    ..I can't work our if they are people from this forum taking the piss or are actually real...

    "Fair play to you for campaignin against this Godless treaty, They just want to take away our Holy God and replace Him with science. That too and the Fact that the Godless treaty will lead us to being swamped with asylum seakers and foreigners from Africa is this what Pearse gave his life for I ask you?"

    Another one, .....

    "Interesting website, very professional..........however do we have to use words such as 'Erected' on our About Us page"

    Great stuff.


  • #13
    expectationlost
    Registered Users Posts: 11,751 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    Dades wrote: »
    How long before someone suggests if we vote "yes" to the Fiscal Compact Referendum that abortion will be made compulsory?

    I think I'll just vote the opposite to people/groups I don't like.

    how long before the yes side say this will get us jobs and growth and confidence, well they already have. :/

    is this the depth of detail they'll be going into again? :/

    are yous going to try and justify a yes vote by hi-lighting some of the no voters/campaigns? pretty poor


  • #14
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,395 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    expectationlost wrote: »
    is this the depth of detail they'll be going into again?
    Quite likely, since it's substantially deeper than most of the no-side ever reached.


  • #15
    Turtwig
    Registered Users Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    I can smell the Inception meme coming into this thread. . .


  • #16
    swampgas
    Registered Users Posts: 3,534 ✭✭✭swampgas


    This referendum will be a real test of how far the people of this country actually understand the mess we are in. I don't think they do, to be honest.

    I expect lots of people to think purely along idiotic short-term and self-centered lines. I.e. if the government want them to vote yes, then "they will need something in return".

    This will be everything from re-opening the Vatican embassy to scrapping water charges and septic tank inspections to ... well, I'll just have to wait and see. I don't expect to be pleasantly surprised though.

    Referendums in this country really test my faith in democracy.


  • #17
    Gbear
    Registered Users Posts: 12,775 ✭✭✭✭Gbear


    swampgas wrote: »
    This referendum will be a real test of how far the people of this country actually understand the mess we are in. I don't think they do, to be honest.

    I expect lots of people to think purely along idiotic short-term and self-centered lines. I.e. if the government want them to vote yes, then "they will need something in return".

    This will be everything from re-opening the Vatican embassy to scrapping water charges and septic tank inspections to ... well, I'll just have to wait and see. I don't expect to be pleasantly surprised though.

    Referendums in this country really test my faith in democracy.

    Indeed. You only need to look at California to see where actual democracy gets you.

    Personally, technocracy, as I understand it, is my preference.

    Like our current system but the people running the country have to be qualified at something useful rather than being career liars.


  • #18
    Turtwig
    Registered Users Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    Anyone read the AHs thread yet? I'll put you out of your misery right now.
    282-mother-of-god.jpg

    DON'T READ IT!!


  • #19
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,316 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    Jernal wrote: »
    Anyone read the AHs thread yet? I'll put you out of your misery right now.
    282-mother-of-god.jpg

    DON'T READ IT!!

    I've decided to stay away. I don't care anymore what happens and I'm not going to get wound up about it.


  • #20
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,222 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Jernal wrote: »
    The regulars round these parts tend to be rational and less swayed by emotional chagrin and irrelevant political strawmen.
    my toes will take several hours to uncurl.


  • #21
    strobe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,872 ✭✭✭strobe


    ShooterSF wrote: »
    Uck. Last time I was against Lisbon (twice) and was so sick of the company I was in. Here's hoping this one's a lot better or failing that, the crazies end up on the yes side.

    :D I feel your pain Shooter. Nothing worse than taking a stance on an issue and then looking around you and seeing a bunch of foam mouthed lunatics arguing on the same side as you.


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  • #22
    ShooterSF
    Registered Users Posts: 8,824 ✭✭✭ShooterSF


    strobe wrote: »
    :D I feel your pain Shooter. Nothing worse than taking a stance on an issue and then looking around you and seeing a bunch of foam mouthed lunatics arguing on the same side as you.

    It was quite soul destroying (aside from the fact that you can't really destroy an imaginary object). Worse is thinking you lose respect of peers whose opinion you nearly always agree with.
    Anywho whichever side I end up I know one thing for sure, those f'n posters with their stupid slogans will surely push my blood pressure up again (just thinking of the ones from both sides last time is causing my eye to twitch).


  • #23
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,395 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Here's what Abie Philbin Bowman had to say about ructions in FF:

    ‎
    Abie Philbin Bowman wrote:
    Great to see Fianna Fail marking the 90th Anniversary of the Civil War by splitting into two factions. A Pro-Treaty side, led by a Corkman called Micheal, and an Anti-Treaty Side led by a tall guy, with glasses, called Eamon.


  • #24
    Gbear
    Registered Users Posts: 12,775 ✭✭✭✭Gbear


    ShooterSF wrote: »
    It was quite soul destroying (aside from the fact that you can't really destroy an imaginary object). Worse is thinking you lose respect of peers whose opinion you nearly always agree with.
    Anywho whichever side I end up I know one thing for sure, those f'n posters with their stupid slogans will surely push my blood pressure up again (just thinking of the ones from both sides last time is causing my eye to twitch).

    I kind of went the opposite direction. I looked at those on the anti-treaty side (and I did at least skim over the treaty to be fair) and figured.. there's no possible way they're right.
    In hindsight it probably wasn't the best way to come to a decision but at least I was sortof informed.

    Of course the problem is that one line of reasoning that the anti-treaty side put forward was that if you weren't sure you should vote no. That of course is horse****. If you're not sure enough to make a proper decision, you shouldn't vote at all.

    So now.. here we find ourselves a few years later. Does anyone here know of somewhere unbiased I can get information about this referendum and not government spin or no-vote hysteria?
    I'd put more trust in this forum than pretty much anywhere else when it comes to dispassionate rational advice.


  • #25
    Turtwig
    Registered Users Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    Gbear wrote: »
    I kind of went the opposite direction. I looked at those on the anti-treaty side (and I did at least skim over the treaty to be fair) and figured.. there's no possible way they're right.
    In hindsight it probably wasn't the best way to come to a decision but at least I was sortof informed.

    Of course the problem is that one line of reasoning that the anti-treaty side put forward was that if you weren't sure you should vote no. That of course is horse****. If you're not sure enough to make a proper decision, you shouldn't vote at all.

    So now.. here we find ourselves a few years later. Does anyone here know of somewhere unbiased I can get information about this referendum and not government spin or no-vote hysteria?
    I'd put more trust in this forum than pretty much anywhere else when it comes to dispassionate rational advice.


    Read Scofflaw's posts in the politics forums. :)


  • #26
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • #27
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,395 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.
    Here's one I thought summed up the no side quite well. See in Herbert Park during the first referendum. Note the ad for the lost cat lower down the pole.

    194857.jpg


  • #28
    Sarky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,967 ✭✭✭✭Sarky


    I can't wait to see what kind of loony bullsh*t the likes of Cóir end up putting on their no posters this time. A vote for yes will likely be funding pope assassins and allowing those European fatcats to build a multistory abortionplex in your own back yard.


  • #29
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    expectationlost wrote: »
    how long before the yes side say this will get us jobs and growth and confidence, well they already have. :/

    Don't forget "stability" along with the jobs and growth.

    An interesting question is why do neither side just say what the proposal is, and then let the people just vote on that. The answer, I suspect, is that the sheeple have been conditioned to having "truth" interpreted for them, and the politicians stick to the same approach as the clerics.

    BTW for those who don't know yet, the proposal is for a debt brake to be enshrined in law. It's a similar idea to having a defined credit limit on your personal credit card. The Germans, being one step ahead of the game as usual, already have one enshrined in their constitution, and if we're all going to be sharing the same credit card (ie the euro currency), they reckon we should all abide by the same kind of credit limit.


  • #30
    mikhail
    Registered Users Posts: 3,863 ✭✭✭mikhail


    recedite wrote: »
    Don't forget "stability" along with the jobs and growth.

    An interesting question is why do neither side just say what the proposal is, and then let the people just vote on that. The answer, I suspect, is that the sheeple have been conditioned to having "truth" interpreted for them, and the politicians stick to the same approach as the clerics.

    BTW for those who don't know yet, the proposal is for a debt brake to be enshrined in law. It's a similar idea to having a defined credit limit on your personal credit card. The Germans, being one step ahead of the game as usual, already have one enshrined in their constitution, and if we're all going to be sharing the same credit card (ie the euro currency), they reckon we should all abide by the same kind of credit limit.
    As far as I can see, that's the whole idea. Limit each government to making no more than a 3% budget deficit in any given year, and limit the maximum total national debt to 60% of annual income, with fines for countries who fail and are reported as failing (room for politicing, added by France).

    I need to read more, but for me at the moment it boils down to: do I still believe in Keynesian economics (which this would all but prevent, not that governments do the whole damping the boom bit anyway)?

    For once, I strongly suspect I'm voting yes.


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  • #31
    ShooterSF
    Registered Users Posts: 8,824 ✭✭✭ShooterSF


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    yes-to-jobs-poster.jpg

    Can we not just ban posters?! Anyone that votes for a slogan shouldn't be allowed vote.

    *Eye in mega twitch mode*


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