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DoE testing - The Last Word

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,741 ✭✭✭Irishgoatman


    Malta1 wrote: »
    Hi Guys

    Am I supposed to carry the cert issued by the MTO on the van for inspection at roadside?

    Im sure the answer is contained on this thread somewhere......its it now 24 pages long :eek:

    Yes you are supposed to keep it with the camper to produce on demand.
    If not with you, you will be given a date by which to produce it at a garda station of your choice.

    I tuck mine behind the tax or insurance disc. Secure enough so that it doesn't blow away but nice and handy. Or keep it with your driving licence because, by law, you have to have that with you when driving.

    RSA hope to have a disc system in operation by next year.


  • Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭Pjwal


    Yes you are supposed to keep it with the camper to produce on demand.
    If not with you, you will be given a date by which to produce it at a garda station of your choice.

    I tuck mine behind the tax or insurance disc. Secure enough so that it doesn't blow away but nice and handy. Or keep it with your driving licence because, by law, you have to have that with you when driving.

    RSA hope to have a disc system in operation by next year.


    a lot of commercial owners would disagree with that answer,very few of them carry them on the vehicle, usual practice is to carry a copy and file the original, i do some part time truck and coach driveing and none of the people i work for keep original on the vehicle,and i did the transport managers cpc coarse 5 years ago, and it was not a law to carry it at that time


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,741 ✭✭✭Irishgoatman


    Pjwal wrote: »
    a lot of commercial owners would disagree with that answer,very few of them carry them on the vehicle, usual practice is to carry a copy and file the original, i do some part time truck and coach driveing and none of the people i work for keep original on the vehicle,and i did the transport managers cpc coarse 5 years ago, and it was not a law to carry it at that time

    I get the feeling that you like to nitpick from time to time.

    I answered the question as it was asked. I understand from the RSA that, as with car NCT certs, you should have it with you on the vehicle. Which will, of course, be law when the disc system is up and running.
    What commercial owners do is beside the point, we are talking about private vehicles.
    I did not say that it was/is law to carry it. I refered to it being law to carry your driving licence.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,030 ✭✭✭niloc1951


    Pjwal wrote: »
    ...................... Hymer has in cases placed an extra plate that has a higher front axle gross weight then what the base vehicle manufacterer has allowed and that one is a problem.................

    Shouldn't be a problem, because, HYMER is considered to be 'the manufacturer' and as such "responsible to the approval authority for all aspects of the type-approval or authorisation process and for ensuring conformity of production"

    See DIRECTIVE 2007/46/EC OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL, in particular Articles 3 & 5


  • Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭Pjwal


    I get the feeling that you like to nitpick from time to time.

    I answered the question as it was asked. I understand from the RSA that, as with car NCT certs, you should have it with you on the vehicle. Which will, of course, be law when the disc system is up and running.
    What commercial owners do is beside the point, we are talking about private vehicles.
    I did not say that it was/is law to carry it. I refered to it being law to carry your driving licence.


    you could be right, it has been said before


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,741 ✭✭✭Irishgoatman


    I doubt if a photo-copy of a cert would be accepted by a roadside RSA inspector.
    RSA told me that they are having a fair amount of counterfeit certs showing up on commercial vehicles which is partly why they are pushing for the disc system as fast as possible.


  • Registered Users Posts: 460 ✭✭Malta1


    Cheers lads


  • Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭Pjwal


    niloc1951 wrote: »
    Pjwal wrote:
    ...................... Hymer has in cases placed an extra plate that has a higher front axle gross weight then what the base vehicle manufacterer has allowed and that one is a problem.................

    Shouldn't be a problem, because, HYMER is considered to be 'the manufacturer' and as such "responsible to the approval authority for all aspects of the type-approval or authorisation process and for ensuring conformity of production"

    See DIRECTIVE 2007/46/EC OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL, in particular Articles 3 & 5


    It would make our job a lot easier if the rsa was to do as much reserch as you do instead of doing things the way that they do.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,946 ✭✭✭spaceHopper


    Passed to day after a recheck!

    Guys please take the argument off line, PM's?


  • Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭Pjwal


    Pjwal wrote: »
    It would make our job a lot easier if the rsa was to do as much reserch as you do instead of doing things the way that they do.

    that is ment as praise incase it comes across as sarcasm.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,213 ✭✭✭Aidan_M_M


    maybe it's time for a mod to skim the thread , and bring together the important points? And maybe just a thought , thinking out loud here , to have a seperate thread for those who've gone for a test , whether or not they passed and why not if they failed ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,520 ✭✭✭martyc5674


    So I had my camper for test on Friday (coincedently the same day that they received instruction from the RSA) regarding the weight. Anyway my plate had been altered as in stamped over. So here are my questions :

    It was obvioulsy changed so that the VRT amount paid was lower??

    So basically in order for me to drive it on a B licence I would prefer if it was under 3500 tonne. But I am wondering about the implications of this, would I now be liable for the additional VRT? If so would it be much ? Am I better emptying the van and so getting it below the 3500 tonne weight ?

    Also I am in the South Dublin area and I really am not clear as to what is expected of me to get this problem rectified. Mine is a Peugeot Hobby, so basically am I expected to find a Peugeot garage and ask them to agree with the weight from a weigh bridge ?

    Thanks for all advice as I need to get this sorted as quick as possible.

    If your van weighs under 3500 you should be able to get it down plated.
    Most vans can carry over 4 ton but are down plated to fit a licence category.
    You mightn't leave yourself with much payload but that's another issue!

    Check out svtech website for info on doing this

    Marty.


  • Registered Users Posts: 148 ✭✭zambo


    Hi
    I think it unlikely the weight was changed for vrt reasons.the weight on the plate was not looked at by revenue,they were only interested in the weight shown by one of their recommended weighbridges,this had to be with no water in tanks and no extra items on board.The weight limit to qualify for low vrt was 3 tonne not 3.5 so you could still drive on b licence.The likely reason was to allow a more reasonable payload as some vans are overloaded with just the passengers aboard.My own van was uprated by fitting air suspension
    for this reason.
    If your license allows it I would not downplate it as you may find you have no load capacity.If you feel it will sell better when you change you can get it changed then.
    yours Zambo


  • Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭Pjwal


    zambo wrote: »
    Hi
    I think it unlikely the weight was changed for vrt reasons.the weight on the plate was not looked at by revenue,they were only interested in the weight shown by one of their recommended weighbridges,this had to be with no water in tanks and no extra items on board.The weight limit to qualify for low vrt was 3 tonne not 3.5 so you could still drive on b licence.The likely reason was to allow a more reasonable payload as some vans are overloaded with just the passengers aboard.My own van was uprated by fitting air suspension
    for this reason.
    If your license allows it I would not downplate it as you may find you have no load capacity.If you feel it will sell better when you change you can get it changed then.
    yours Zambo


    i am very sure that you cannot down plate anyway, you can bring down axle weights to suit tyre load indices, but only if after lowering the axle weights, the sum of the two axle weights still add up to at least the gvw.


  • Registered Users Posts: 43 kat2171


    Hi all. I am new to this thread and a bit confused!
    I have a Transit/ Rimor Europeo NG6 camper.
    Prob is I am not sure what weight is.. Plate inside passenger door has 4 weights: 3500,5750,1600 and 2600kg. It is a Ford plate.
    Does this mean that the weight is 3500kg?


  • Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭Pjwal


    kat2171 wrote: »
    Hi all. I am new to this thread and a bit confused!
    I have a Transit/ Rimor Europeo NG6 camper.
    Prob is I am not sure what weight is.. Plate inside passenger door has 4 weights: 3500,5750,1600 and 2600kg. It is a Ford plate.
    Does this mean that the weight is 3500kg?


    yes, 3500 is gross vehicle weight.
    the second weight is the gross train weight(van+trailer+load)
    third weight is gross front axle weight
    fourth weight is gross rear axle weight


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,520 ✭✭✭martyc5674


    kat2171 wrote: »
    Hi all. I am new to this thread and a bit confused!
    I have a Transit/ Rimor Europeo NG6 camper.
    Prob is I am not sure what weight is.. Plate inside passenger door has 4 weights: 3500,5750,1600 and 2600kg. It is a Ford plate.
    Does this mean that the weight is 3500kg?

    3500 is your max permissible weight including payload.
    The smaller weights are your individual axel ratings and the 5750 is max permissible train weight ( van plus trailer)
    To get your actual weight u need to go to a weigh bridge.
    Marty.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,101 ✭✭✭dickwod1


    martyc5674 wrote: »
    To get your actual weight u need to go to a weigh bridge.
    Marty.

    Does one need to get the camper weighed (cert of weight) before the test?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,520 ✭✭✭martyc5674


    dickwod1 wrote: »
    martyc5674 wrote: »
    To get your actual weight u need to go to a weigh bridge.
    Marty.

    Does one need to get the camper weighed (cert of weight) before the test?

    No... But if you'd like to know your payload it's the only way of finding out.
    Your payload is 3500- weight of van.
    Marty.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,520 ✭✭✭martyc5674


    Pjwal wrote: »
    zambo wrote: »
    Hi
    I think it unlikely the weight was changed for vrt reasons.the weight on the plate was not looked at by revenue,they were only interested in the weight shown by one of their recommended weighbridges,this had to be with no water in tanks and no extra items on board.The weight limit to qualify for low vrt was 3 tonne not 3.5 so you could still drive on b licence.The likely reason was to allow a more reasonable payload as some vans are overloaded with just the passengers aboard.My own van was uprated by fitting air suspension
    for this reason.
    If your license allows it I would not downplate it as you may find you have no load capacity.If you feel it will sell better when you change you can get it changed then.
    yours Zambo


    i am very sure that you cannot down plate anyway, you can bring down axle weights to suit tyre load indices, but only if after lowering the axle weights, the sum of the two axle weights still add up to at least the gvw.


    You can down plate.
    A mate is having his done... Must see how he's gettin on with it.
    Up plating is trickier as you may have to upgrade suspension/axels.

    Down plating all your doing is reducing your payload (and then of course your responsible to manage your payload)...and it often suits to do this for motorhomes to allow it to be driven on a car licence.
    It wouldn't be common among trucks as truckers have c/d licences.

    Marty.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭Pjwal


    martyc5674 wrote: »
    You can down plate.
    A mate is having his done... Must see how he's gettin on with it.
    Up plating is trickier as you may have to upgrade suspension/axels.

    Down plating all your doing is reducing your payload (and then of course your responsible to manage your payload)...and it often suits to do this for motorhomes to allow it to be driven on a car licence.
    It wouldn't be common among trucks as truckers have c/d licences.

    Marty.


    i know i am often accused of nit picking and argueing, but i do know that that it is not acceptable to change the gross weight either upward or down wards, it was happening a few years ago on a regular basis with small isuzu and mitsubishi canter trucks and a stop was put to it, unless the manufacterer is doing it, its not legal, but i also that alot of plates have been fabercated to look original, but arent, unless somebody previously up plated it and is now reverting it back to original,


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,520 ✭✭✭martyc5674


    Pjwal wrote: »
    martyc5674 wrote: »
    You can down plate.
    A mate is having his done... Must see how he's gettin on with it.
    Up plating is trickier as you may have to upgrade suspension/axels.

    Down plating all your doing is reducing your payload (and then of course your responsible to manage your payload)...and it often suits to do this for motorhomes to allow it to be driven on a car licence.
    It wouldn't be common among trucks as truckers have c/d licences.

    Marty.


    i know i am often accused of nit picking and argueing, but i do know that that it is not acceptable to change the gross weight either upward or down wards, it was happening a few years ago on a regular basis with small isuzu and mitsubishi canter trucks and a stop was put to it, unless the manufacterer is doing it, its not legal, but i also that alot of plates have been fabercated to look original, but arent, unless somebody previously up plated it and is now reverting it back to original,

    Have a read of this http://www.svtech.co.uk/motorhomes.html
    They check out your van and supply you with a new plate and a letter of declaration.

    Maybe whoever was doing it with the canters was a bit loose around engineers reports etc etc

    But at the end of the day if your axels suspension brakes etc are up to the job and you have an engineer stand over it the RSA can't argue with you.

    Marty.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,030 ✭✭✭niloc1951


    Pjwal wrote: »
    i know i am often accused of nit picking and argueing, but i do know that that it is not acceptable to change the gross weight either upward or down wards, it was happening a few years ago on a regular basis with small isuzu and mitsubishi canter trucks and a stop was put to it, unless the manufacterer is doing it, its not legal, but i also that alot of plates have been fabercated to look original, but arent, unless somebody previously up plated it and is now reverting it back to original,

    Not quite right, see http://www.svtech.co.uk/motorhomes.html and their certification and plates are acceptable to the RSA, I have it in writing from them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭Pjwal


    Pjwal wrote: »
    i know i am often accused of nit picking and argueing, but i do know that that it is not acceptable to change the gross weight either upward or down wards, it was happening a few years ago on a regular basis with small isuzu and mitsubishi canter trucks and a stop was put to it, unless the manufacterer is doing it, its not legal, but i also that alot of plates have been fabercated to look original, but arent, unless somebody previously up plated it and is now reverting it back to original,



    i dont have a way of getting them up here, but if you can look up circular vs 13/3 it states it very clearly, and then a bit more info added on circular vs 06/04


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,030 ✭✭✭niloc1951


    I have attached an excellent article covering the whole area of changing the GVW (MAM).

    During correspondence with the RSA during November 2010 they confirmed to me that the type of operation mentioned in the article, when carried by a competent and authorised person (like SV Tech), is wholly acceptable to them (the RSA), as it is to equivalent organisations elsewhere within the EU.

    Any refusal to allow such an operation on the vehicle of an Irish resident would be contrary to the Free Movement of Goods and Services Directive.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,512 ✭✭✭stevire


    DOE done today, overall not too bad. 4 Cosmetic Issues and one issue with Handbrake Imbalance.

    One of the issues was this:
    camerazoom2012033110555.jpg

    This fails the DOE? Really??


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,250 ✭✭✭Buford T Justice


    stevire wrote: »
    DOE done today, overall not too bad. 4 Cosmetic Issues and one issue with Handbrake Imbalance.

    This fails the DOE? Really??

    Renault Espace. Where would us self builders be without them eh?

    Yeah, its a failure alright. No adequate support for the seat. I used to drive an aul tub a shite skip lorry years ago and it failed the DOE for that too. had to put a piece of foam in it and stitch it up. Just stitch a bit of fabric over the hole, and provided there's not a big hole int it, it'll be fine.


  • Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭Pjwal


    niloc1951 wrote: »
    I have attached an excellent article covering the whole area of changing the GVW (MAM).

    During correspondence with the RSA during November 2010 they confirmed to me that the type of operation mentioned in the article, when carried by a competent and authorised person (like SV Tech), is wholly acceptable to them (the RSA), as it is to equivalent organisations elsewhere within the EU.

    Any refusal to allow such an operation on the vehicle of an Irish resident would be contrary to the Free Movement of Goods and Services Directive.


    Ok. I appolagise and I am standing corrected. But once again, this information has never been passed on to the test centres from the rsa.


  • Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭Pjwal


    stevire wrote:
    DOE done today, overall not too bad. 4 Cosmetic Issues and one issue with Handbrake Imbalance.

    This fails the DOE? Really??

    Renault Espace. Where would us self builders be without them eh?

    Yeah, its a failure alright. No adequate support for the seat. I used to drive an aul tub a sh[SIZE="2"]i[/SIZE]te skip lorry years ago and it failed the DOE for that too. had to put a piece of foam in it and stitch it up. Just stitch a bit of fabric over the hole, and provided there's not a big hole int it, it'll be fine.


    Yep. Exactly as buford has said. Just fill it,stitch it and cover it. It is a pickey thing, but it is a test item and the manual says if the foam is protruding then it's a fail.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,512 ✭✭✭stevire


    Renault Espace. Where would us self builders be without them eh?

    Yeah, its a failure alright. No adequate support for the seat. I used to drive an aul tub a shite skip lorry years ago and it failed the DOE for that too. had to put a piece of foam in it and stitch it up. Just stitch a bit of fabric over the hole, and provided there's not a big hole int it, it'll be fine.

    Yeah the Espace is a great resource! Only problem I have with the seat is that the swivel handle is too close to the handbrake... Another item on the self-build todo list!
    Pjwal wrote: »
    Yep. Exactly as buford has said. Just fill it,stitch it and cover it. It is a pickey thing, but it is a test item and the manual says if the foam is protruding then it's a fail.

    Wasn't aware that would fail a DOE, was a bit shocked at the time!! I'll get it sorted either way


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