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Irish Rail - Risk of Strike Action

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 730 ✭✭✭Wild Garlic


    he did answer the question

    Oh ok, must have been deleted then. Maybe he can repost it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,218 ✭✭✭markpb


    he did answer the question

    Can you highlight the specific part of his post where he answered what duties the drivers have taken on?

    The only thing I saw related to tasks was station staff numbers being reduced and their (unspecified) work being split between contract cleaners (which apparently is a bad thing) and drivers? Are the drivers hopping off to sell tickets, give the windows a quick clean, check the toilet seat is down and then hopping back on the train again?


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    The only ones i know of is taking off wheelchairs at unmanned stations and having to deal with passenger issues . Constantly passengers are being asked to contact the driver via the emergency line at the end of the carriages when there is little or nothing he can do anyway and risk being assaulted if he leaves the cab. They cant fart now without it being recorded and checked to see if its within the company requlations.
    Id support the mainline and commuter drivers but ive no support for the dart drivers. One dart driver was informed that there was a wheelchair going to a station that was unmanned and arrangements was made to get the passenger off. The driver wasnt asked to take him off but still said "I hope you told him that if there is nobody there , he will be going all the way to malahide as im not taking him off ".
    Its that poor attitude that gets to me as he didnt have to say or do anything.
    Aside from all that, they should take a day out and spend it with those that deal with the public everyday good and bad and see all the extra work thats been landed on them( Lost property, carers, assisting visually impared passengers, wheelchairs, fasttrack ( internal), complaints,accidents, glorified receptionists because people think they are dealing with head office rather than just a station and sometimes all at the same time as you are on your own plus having to make sure there is someone to take off the wheelchairs etc at the other end and all for taking the reduced pay which was supposed to be partially restored at this stage. Are the unions or anyone else concerned? no their not but will jump through hoops for drivers who may have to take off a wheelchair down the country somewhere or on the northside.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,573 ✭✭✭Infini


    Its rosters as well they got a bunch of people doing overtime as well to make up gaps from lack of staff. Place atm is a mess wheelchair users should be able to be looked after but they arent always due to staff not present. Dart drivers not putting on wheelchairs is an issue but this is in part because a wheelchair is a big motorised scooter now and those can be a safety issue if they come off the ramp because of their size alone. Other thing I heard is mainline drivers do get paid to do wheelchairs but dart drivers dont. Its a murky issue that just hasnt been sorted out. Its a multitude of issues across the board that just arent being sorted out and it all piles up until it blows up into this.

    Company talks about losing a million a month but if the funding hadnt been cut it wouldnt be losing anything at all its rather the companys UNDERFUNDED 1mil a month in subvention. Its the same across the board they should be putting in the investment to fix these things but they would rather buy an election and start vanity projects instead.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,654 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    Its a multitude of issues going back years these aren't just things from last year, they were meant to setup a committee as part of the deal to sort these things but the company is basically saying sure well sit down but were not talking about this and that and so on. I mean if one side is refusing to talk about certain issues in a meeting that's meant to resolve these kind of issues whats the point in even being there in the 1st place?

    Alot of problems are in part due to the fact that they're consistently running down staff in stations and part replacing them like the cleaning and such with low paid contractors while making the drivers take up the slack for the remaining things with nothing in return.

    Meanwhile there's seemingly plenty of management jobs being advertised every few weeks. Its like everything else in the country lately you know why these strikes in the post or hospitals are breaking out? Cos management just want to ram everything they want through without any input from those actually doing the job. If this happens in any other place including your own eventually people get pissed off and go on strike or take industrial action because noones listening and your out of options.

    I fully expect it's more than one issue however they are not valid grounds for striking. This action is a joke.
    The only ones i know of is taking off wheelchairs at unmanned stations and having to deal with passenger issues . Constantly passengers are being asked to contact the driver via the emergency line at the end of the carriages when there is little or nothing he can do anyway and risk being assaulted if he leaves the cab. They cant fart now without it being recorded and checked to see if its within the company requlations.
    Id support the mainline and commuter drivers but ive no support for the dart drivers. One dart driver was informed that there was a wheelchair going to a station that was unmanned and arrangements was made to get the passenger off. The driver wasnt asked to take him off but still said "I hope you told him that if there is nobody there , he will be going all the way to malahide as im not taking him off ".
    Its that poor attitude that gets to me as he didnt have to say or do anything.
    Aside from all that, they should take a day out and spend it with those that deal with the public everyday good and bad and see all the extra work thats been landed on them( Lost property, carers, assisting visually impared passengers, wheelchairs, fasttrack ( internal), complaints,accidents, glorified receptionists because people think they are dealing with head office rather than just a station and sometimes all at the same time as you are on your own plus having to make sure there is someone to take off the wheelchairs etc at the other end and all for taking the reduced pay which was supposed to be partially restored at this stage. Are the unions or anyone else concerned? no their not but will jump through hoops for drivers who may have to take off a wheelchair down the country somewhere or on the northside.

    I accept they is an increase in call's but the % of services per driver in which the button would be activated would be like 90% no 10 yes. Nobody is asking them to leave the cab, all it requires is for the train to stop at the next station where there is another staff member and deal with most issues and otherwise call the guards.

    If anything passengers are scared to press the button for fear of been ate out of it by the driver on in some anti social cases feeling to intimidated to.

    Now moving on to the planned action anybody want to speculate as to why the unions are been very generous and giving IE over 2 weeks notice and only stopping for 3 hours in the morning which will cause problems but nothing as Friday evening would.

    Hoping for talks to start and/or trying to keep the public on side to an extent?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 28,928 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    I fully expect it's more than one issue however they are not valid grounds for striking. This action is a joke.

    they are valid grounds as everything else has been tried. i agree the action is unfortunate but it is necessary to force the management back into talks
    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    I accept they is an increase in call's but the % of services per driver in which the button would be activated would be like 90% no 10 yes. Nobody is asking them to leave the cab, all it requires is for the train to stop at the next station where there is another staff member and deal with most issues and otherwise call the guards.

    what if staff aren't existing at that station? the gards take time to get to the train, hence why staff are needed back aboard long distance trains. driver only doesn't work on these services. which is why i support the gards in the UK fighting against it and lament that our former onboard staff didn't here
    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    If anything passengers are scared to press the button for fear of been ate out of it by the driver on in some anti social cases feeling to intimidated to.

    well in fairness i wouldn't blame a driver for being annoyed at the pressing of the button all though i would hope they would keep it to themselves. infact i would bet they do. they have enough to do driving the train without dealing with passenger issues. they are train drivers not customer service staff.
    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    Now moving on to the planned action anybody want to speculate as to why the unions are been very generous and giving IE over 2 weeks notice and only stopping for 3 hours in the morning which will cause problems but nothing as Friday evening would.

    Hoping for talks to start and/or trying to keep the public on side to an extent?

    probably hoping for talks. after all while having public support is nice, it won't solve any of the issues ultimately.

    shut down alcohol action ireland now! end MUP today!



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    Infini2 wrote: »
    Its rosters as well they got a bunch of people doing overtime as well to make up gaps from lack of staff. Place atm is a mess wheelchair users should be able to be looked after but they arent always due to staff not present. Dart drivers not putting on wheelchairs is an issue but this is in part because a wheelchair is a big motorised scooter now and those can be a safety issue if they come off the ramp because of their size alone. Other thing I heard is mainline drivers do get paid to do wheelchairs but dart drivers dont. Its a murky issue that just hasnt been sorted out. Its a multitude of issues across the board that just arent being sorted out and it all piles up until it blows up into this.

    Company talks about losing a million a month but if the funding hadnt been cut it wouldnt be losing anything at all its rather the companys UNDERFUNDED 1mil a month in subvention. Its the same across the board they should be putting in the investment to fix these things but they would rather buy an election and start vanity projects instead.

    Dart drivers think they have to lift the wheelchair off when all they have to do is put the ramp down. One refused because he hadnt been trained on how to put a ramp down . They were getting extra money for doing it but still refuse.
    I can understand them not wanting to get out of the cab, but they dont have to be such pricks with it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,654 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    what if staff aren't existing at that station? the gards take time to get to the train, hence why staff are needed back aboard long distance trains. driver only doesn't work on these services. which is why i support the gards in the UK fighting against it and lament that our former onboard staff didn't here

    Most stations are manned and the guards would speed up if there was a immediate danger.
    well in fairness i wouldn't blame a driver for being annoyed at the pressing of the button all though i would hope they would keep it to themselves. infact i would bet they do. they have enough to do driving the train without dealing with passenger issues. they are train drivers not customer service staff.

    Driving does not take a lot of effort, t's not as if they have to do anyone once the button is pressed.....the train does the work to allow him talk while continue driving.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,573 ✭✭✭Infini


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    Driving does not take a lot of effort, t's not as if they have to do anyone once the button is pressed.....the train does the work to allow him talk while continue driving.

    A train isnt like driving a car and if someones looking for an argument over the intercom its the LAST thing you need to be doing while DRIVING. Its also an EMERGENCY thing but some people forget even that!


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,654 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    Infini2 wrote: »
    A train isnt like driving a car and if someones looking for an argument over the intercom its the LAST thing you need to be doing while DRIVING. Its also an EMERGENCY thing but some people forget even that!

    Your right it easier than a car.......

    It is not wildly pressed and I expect an argument is very rare and anyway the driver can cut them off if he likes.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    Your right it easier than a car.......

    It is not wildly pressed and I expect an argument is very rare and anyway the driver can cut them off if he likes.

    I take it, you never driven a train then?


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,654 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    I take it, you never driven a train then?

    Hint of sarcasm but seriously it's not much to expect them to speck to passengers the odd time it's pressed.

    If it's a big issue/distraction then should all verbal communication with Central Control be cut when trains are moving.


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,928 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    Most stations are manned and the guards would speed up if there was a immediate danger.

    but not all. and how long will they remain manned? it certainly won't be forever. considering the underfunded understaffed gards i'm surprised they would be able to get to any danger quick.
    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    Driving does not take a lot of effort, t's not as if they have to do anyone once the button is pressed.....the train does the work to allow him talk while continue driving.

    doesn't matter whether it doesn't take a lot of effort. he is a train driver, not customer service staff. his job is to drive the train and he should be able to concentrate on that without dealing with passenger issues. its what i expect him to be able to do

    shut down alcohol action ireland now! end MUP today!



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,573 ✭✭✭Infini


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    Hint of sarcasm but seriously it's not much to expect them to speck to passengers the odd time it's pressed.

    If it's a big issue/distraction then should all verbal communication with Central Control be cut when trains are moving.

    Drivers are there to drive trains not deal with 40 questions. The communications are only there to be used IN AN EMERGENCY like someone collapsing not query's like what station is such and such near or complaints about the toilets.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,654 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    Infini2 wrote: »
    Drivers are there to drive trains not deal with 40 questions. The communications are only there to be used IN AN EMERGENCY like someone collapsing not query's like what station is such and such near or complaints about the toilets.

    Do tell me a journey when a button is pressed 40 times, it is not pressed every minute by any stretch and saying otherwise is rubbish. As a regular users I have never saw it been pressed for a random question, I have pressed twice and have witnessed it been hit by accident.
    but not all. and how long will they remain manned? it certainly won't be forever. considering the underfunded understaffed gards i'm surprised they would be able to get to any danger quick.

    I don't see a major culling on station staff on the way, anyway stations are close and unions can cross that bridge when if it becomes a major problem.
    doesn't matter whether it takes a lot of effort. he is a train driver, not customer service staff. his job is to drive the train and he should be able to concentrate on that without dealing with passenger issues.

    And they do drive the train, they don't deal with passenger issues and lets say there is a second member of staff on board they would have to enter the cab and speak to the driver if it was an anti social issue and they would have to communicate it with control. This just cuts out the middle man.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 268 ✭✭alcaline


    Just another symptom of the complete lack of trust between the workers and management in a CIE company.
    Should the Minister of Transport not be asking questions why the staff don't have any faith or trust in the management.
    The drivers in Dublin Bus have not had a pay rise since 2007, only cuts,DB pleads poverty when it comes to drivers wages, yet there has just been a round of promotions at management level, naturally these promotions come with pay rises.
    Bet the farm it's the same in IE and BE.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,654 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    alcaline wrote: »
    Just another symptom of the complete lack of trust between the workers and management in a CIE company.
    Should the Minister of Transport not be asking questions why the staff don't have any faith or trust in the management.
    The drivers in Dublin Bus have not had a pay rise since 2007, only cuts,DB pleads poverty when it comes to drivers wages, yet there has just been a round of promotions at management level, naturally these promotions come with pay rises.
    Brt the farm it's the same in IE and BE.

    The poor souls, who has had pay rises.....

    Bus/Rail drivers excluding lowest paid staff have been over paid for years.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 268 ✭✭alcaline


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    The poor soles, who has had pay rises.....

    Bus/Rail drivers excluding lowest paid staff have been over paid for years.

    What have their feet got to do with it?


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,654 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    alcaline wrote: »
    Just another symptom of the complete lack of trust between the workers and management in a CIE company.
    Should the Minister of Transport not be asking questions why the staff don't have any faith or trust in the management.
    The drivers in Dublin Bus have not had a pay rise since 2007, only cuts,DB pleads poverty when it comes to drivers wages, yet there has just been a round of promotions at management level, naturally these promotions come with pay rises.
    Bet the farm it's the same in IE and BE.
    alcaline wrote: »
    What have their feet got to do with it?

    Fixed now!


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 268 ✭✭alcaline


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    Fixed now!

    Good man.

    The point of the post is the staff of CIE don't trust the management one little bit, they go back on there word consistently.
    There is no money for staff pay rises, but that is not a issue when it comes to a management pay rise.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,654 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    alcaline wrote: »
    Good man.

    The point of the post is the staff of CIE don't trust the management one little bit, they go back on there word consistently.
    There is no money for staff pay rises, but that is not a issue when it comes to a management pay rise.

    I'm not surprised they don't trust them however some of what management have did over the last number of year's was needed while other aspects should of been fulfilled. Staff are very well paid for what they do and way over the odds in some cases. If they are that un happy why not change jobs....I will tell you why because they have a nice little set up.

    As for CIE, break it up.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 268 ✭✭alcaline


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    I Staff are very well paid for what they do and way over the odds in some cases.

    As for CIE, break it up.

    There might be a few who are over paid, but not the majority. Can you give examples?
    As for breaking up CIE, might be a good idea, the trains are loosing money, DB are in profit, don't know about BE.


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,928 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    The poor souls, who has had pay rises.....

    Bus/Rail drivers excluding lowest paid staff have been over paid for years.
    no, they haven't. they have never been and never will be over payed

    shut down alcohol action ireland now! end MUP today!



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 730 ✭✭✭Wild Garlic


    no, they haven't. they have never been and never will be over payed

    Nor overworked


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,928 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    alcaline wrote: »
    There might be a few who are over paid, but not the majority. Can you give examples?
    As for breaking up CIE, might be a good idea, the trains are loosing money, DB are in profit, don't know about BE.
    CIE was broken up in 1987 into BE IE DB. CIE is just a holding company now like translink is in the north.
    trains for the most part will lose money but its worth it for what they provide. of course what is provided in ireland needs improvement and the politics toards certain lines because they were built by the wrong company needs to end

    shut down alcohol action ireland now! end MUP today!



  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 268 ✭✭alcaline


    Nor overworked

    The are just good at their job and make it look easy


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,928 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Nor overworked

    so? staff should never be "overworked" at all.

    shut down alcohol action ireland now! end MUP today!



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    alcaline wrote: »
    DB are in profit, don't know about BE.
    Nowhere is in profit, every one of the CIE companies receive an annual bailout/subvention from the taxpayer.


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,928 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    hmmm wrote: »
    Nowhere is in profit, every one of the CIE companies receive an annual bailout/subvention from the taxpayer.
    getting a subsidy doesn't automatically mean a company isn't making a proffit, that subsidy is to run routes that are loss making but are vital to people in terms of transport needs.

    shut down alcohol action ireland now! end MUP today!



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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 268 ✭✭alcaline


    hmmm wrote: »
    Nowhere is in profit, every one of the CIE companies receive an annual bailout/subvention from the taxpayer.

    DB made a profit this year, looks like a lot of people here will be disappointed.


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