Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

L1011 · 28-04-2011 5:39pm

I actually washed my car on the WRC today - there's a Topaz garage forecourt on it in Charlestown/Belaghy :pac:

westtip · 28-04-2011 6:05pm

Well he made it into the big time media coverage

http://www.donegaldemocrat.ie/news/local/new_website_launched_for_rail_campaign_1_2619732

corktina · 28-04-2011 7:12pm

That he lives in Donegal is obvious in that he proposes an entirely new line from Sligo to Bundoran in order to include the Wee Donegal in his pipedream. The obvious way to go to Derry from the WRC in Sligo would be via the Sligo Leitrim NC Railway to Enniskillen and thence to Derry, (being then on the right side of the river to join the existing line from Belfast.) Possibly an extention from there to Letterkenny would suffice to serve Donegal.

For those that dont know the SLNCR was a full size if rather secondary line whereas the County Donegal was a narrow gauge line which implies that any surviving bits of trackbed and infrastructure would probably not be usable by a full size line.

Propellerhead · 29-04-2011 3:37pm

Is the Ennis - Athenry line closed yet?

Propellerhead · 29-04-2011 3:42pm

dowlingm · 29-04-2011 3:58pm

MYOB wrote: »

I actually washed my car on the WRC today - there's a Topaz garage forecourt on it in Charlestown/Belaghy :pac:

You exaggerate slightly - but not much!

Edit - I take that back - clearly the tarmac has been extended into the structure gauge. so even if you remove the cars parked across the line encroachment has been done.

yer man! · 29-04-2011 9:48pm

Ok I know i'm going to be shot down here but I just have a general wondering if you will. If and that's a big IF there was tilting trains (sourced cheaply from somewhere) on this line and if it was advertised at like €15 return Galway to limerick and if it could do it in an hour or less, do you think this line could work? With the price of fuel now i notice more people in Galway anyway reverting to public transport where it's decently run. We have double decker buses that are full and more on order for example.
It could perhaps become a proper commuter line if parking was free and as I said above faster and cheaper. As of now it costs €2 to park a car in Athenry and I think €12 return into Galway, that's €14 a day for a commuter :eek:. People like using trains but they are too expensive and take too long. I think they do have the potential to compete with buses but that would involve a big investment which we don't have.
But then again this is Ireland and it's Irishrail...... we can only dream....

corktina · 29-04-2011 10:08pm

it couldnt do it in an hour or less if they strapped rockets to it....

yer man! · 29-04-2011 10:16pm

corktina wrote: »

it couldnt do it in an hour or less if they strapped rockets to it....

It's 118km from Galway to limerick, platfrom to platform. Tilting train can do 200km/h. Now i know it couldn't go this fast on this line but if the speed restriction at crossing points was done away with (don't know if this is viable, but if it was made work) and an express service introduced, then why couldn't it? some of these tilting trains were deigned to go very high spend around bends just like on this line.

Judgement Day · 29-04-2011 11:05pm

yer man! wrote: »

It's 118km from Galway to limerick, platfrom to platform. Tilting train can do 200km/h. Now i know it couldn't go this fast on this line but if the speed restriction at crossing points was done away with (don't know if this is viable, but if it was made work) and an express service introduced, then why couldn't it? some of these tilting trains were deigned to go very high spend around bends just like on this line.

The WRC was not built as an inter-city line, more of a long straggly branch line to carry cattle and local passenger traffic in the days before the internal combustion engine. The very idea of high speed trains linking two medium sized towns (Limerick 110,000 and Galway 78,000) is laughable and would serve no useful purpose whatsoever.

yer man! · 29-04-2011 11:24pm

Judgement Day wrote: »

The WRC was not built as an inter-city line, more of a long straggly branch line to carry cattle and local passenger traffic in the days before the internal combustion engine. The very idea of high speed trains linking two medium sized towns (Limerick 110,000 and Galway 78,000) is laughable and would serve no useful purpose whatsoever.

So why is the government spending so much money on a motorway if apparently not many people travel between these two cities according to you? You need high speed on any line to make it really attractive to use instead of the car or bus. tilting trains were designed for old alignments to increase speed. I'm not saying it will happen or that money should be allocated to make this happen but it's an option that could be looked at in the future once there's money to do so and everyone in Dublin is satisfied with their rail network and stop bitching......
The line is built so all options have to be explored to allow it run to it's absolute max potential.

corktina · 30-04-2011 7:09am

obvious really...if money like this became available there are so many other lines which would make sense to speed up with tilting trains...this line would be bottom of the pile .

In any case this line would need toital rebuilding to carry tilting trains...they tilt, they dont perform miracles...and they;d still need to reverse in Athenry.

OurLadyofKnock · 30-04-2011 11:33am

yer man! wrote: »

So why is the government spending so much money on a motorway if apparently not many people travel between these two cities according to you?

Because the Goverment can toll the road and make money from it. They can collect all kinds of motor transports taxes which offset the investment.

Motorways = REVENUE

WRC Railways = BEGGING BOWL
Commuter Railways = SOCIAL REQUIREMENT

Other than outside Dublin, Belfast and Cork the rail system in Ireland has no long term future. Under CIE no future at all.

OurLadyofKnock · 30-04-2011 11:37am

MYOB wrote: »

I actually washed my car on the WRC today - there's a Topaz garage forecourt on it in Charlestown/Belaghy :pac:

When I first told people about this they did not believe me. You should of seen it about 5 years ago when yer man was selling cars. It was practically a showroom as far as Swinford. Everybody in Mayo buying cars off the WRC and none of them demanding a train on it.

westtip · 30-04-2011 3:27pm

OurLadyofKnock wrote: »

When I first told people about this they did not believe me. You should of seen it about 5 years ago when yer man was selling cars. It was practically a showroom as far as Swinford. Everybody in Mayo buying cars off the WRC and none of them demanding a train on it.

Oh there are still cars been sold there and now a grassy knoll over the line:

take a look at these photos just posted up on FB

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/fbx/?set=a.144340925635030.29971.100001773703036#!/photo.php?fbid=144341755634947&set=a.144340925635030.29971.100001773703036&type=1&theater

and don't forget the famous shot of line going through - yes literally through their front garden - and remember this the line under Transport 21 that is being "preserved and protected" .....ahem just click on link below:

http://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?fbid=144341395634983&set=a.144340925635030.29971.100001773703036&type=1&theater

Might be difficult even to get a greenway through this garden!! As for a train line! Transport 21 link here http://www.transport21.ie/Projects/Heavy_Rail/Western_Rail_Corridor.html

Teh exact quote is "The line from Claremorris to Collooney is to be preserved."

~What a laugh this whole thing remains.

dowlingm · 02-05-2011 3:58pm

yer man! wrote: »

If and that's a big IF there was tilting trains (sourced cheaply from somewhere) on this line

While lateral curves are an issue on Ennis-Galway, vertical curves are too and tilting doesn't solve that.

Consider this question - which would be cheaper: using existing stock and eliminating the worst of the lateral curves, some accommodation crossings and most especially removing the manual LCs on Ennis-Limerick and putting in a few passing loops and better signals, or buying new stock which is then a subfleet with all the attendent costs, parts, training etc?

If the money spent on Craughwell and Ardrahan was spent on resignalling Limerick-Ennis, the Sixmilebridge passing loop and removing more crossings the train would have some chance. Instead Galway Co. Council was allowed its head in encouraging unsustainable development in the south County, the price of which the @rse has probably fallen out of now.

westtip · 03-05-2011 10:21am

Heres my thought for the day on the WRC (bit built so far)

Ennis/Athenry built at a cost of 105 million.

Cost to service this loan at 5% = roughly 5 million a year.

Current subvention on said rail route 2.5 million a year.

Capital repayment on route per annum - say roughly 3.5 million a year.

Total cost of line (back of envelope job) = 11 million a year

And todays thought for the day - what kind of quality bus service covering this route could be provided at a subvention of 11 million a year? Almost a million a month, 211,000 a week. Wow that would be some bus service. And it would be quicker.

shoot my arithmetic down in flames - I don't think its far off the mark.

Aard · 03-05-2011 10:52am

Yes, but we all know that the WRC wasn't built according to what makes financial sense.

westtip · 03-05-2011 11:17am

Aard wrote: »

Yes, but we all know that the WRC wasn't built according to what makes financial sense.

Its the transport planning sense or lack of it that gets me and always has done.

Geuze · 03-05-2011 5:45pm

westtip wrote: »

Heres my thought for the day on the WRC (bit built so far)

Ennis/Athenry built at a cost of 105 million.

Cost to service this loan at 5% = roughly 5 million a year.

Current subvention on said rail route 2.5 million a year.

Capital repayment on route per annum - say roughly 3.5 million a year.

Total cost of line (back of envelope job) = 11 million a year

The capital repayment is not a cost, as you are simply paying back funds rec'd earlier.

Interest is a cost.

westtip · 03-05-2011 6:05pm

Geuze wrote: »

westtip wrote: »

The capital repayment is not a cost, as you are simply paying back funds rec'd earlier.

Interest is a cost.

The capital cost has to be amortised over a period of time, which gives you a capital cost per annum. I took the 105 and divided by 30 taking 30 years as a rule of thumb period to pay back a mortgage to give a capital cost of 3.5 million a year

If the line had not been developed there would have been a saving of 11 million a year over 30 years at todays costs, the cost of subvention will probably increase. As said it was back of the envelope stuff, but it was a thought for the day to simply say for circa 200k per week what kind of super bus service could have been provided? its the simple maths of this crazy scheme that do not stack up!

03-05-2011 6:13pm

Arguably the money spent and interest charge should be ignored for any future decision making - that money is gone and the interest is committed to so any changes won't change that.

dowlingm · 04-05-2011 3:45am

Ashlyn Round Spit wrote: »

Arguably the money spent and interest charge should be ignored for any future decision making - that money is gone and the interest is committed to so any changes won't change that.

not applying the good money after bad test then?

dynamick · 04-05-2011 6:49am

Service is carrying 60,000 passengers per year.
Subvention was expected at 2.4m/year but this was based on passenger number of 100,000. So it's losing more like 2.6m/year or €43/trip. So even if we disregard the sunk costs, it's still an incredibly stupid way to waste money.

corktina · 04-05-2011 7:25am

dynamick wrote: »

Service is carrying 60,000 passengers per year.
Subvention was expected at 2.4m/year but this was based on passenger number of 100,000. So it's losing more like 2.6m/year or €43/trip. So even if we disregard the sunk costs, it's still an incredibly stupid way to waste money.

and yet still some Reverend gentleman wants to re open it all the way to Derry voa Donegal Town:rolleyes:

Aidan1 · 04-05-2011 9:23am

Arguably the money spent and interest charge should be ignored for any future decision making

Nope, the capital spend is a cost, regardless of whether it is in the past or not. If you want to accurately cost the project, you have to include both capital spend (opportunity cost after all), and the cost of capital (at the marginal EU/IMF rate - this is national debt after all). So it's €105m over 25 years, at around 5.6%.

westtip · 04-05-2011 9:35am

Ashlyn Round Spit wrote: »

Arguably the money spent and interest charge should be ignored for any future decision making - that money is gone and the interest is committed to so any changes won't change that.

As one of my old teachers used to say. its ok to make a mistake - As long as you learn from it!

BTW if you want to see how old railway lines running through unspoilt countryside and rural landscapes can make money for local economies watch this:

BBC repeating a railway walk programmes Friday, BBC2 England only not NI service, worth a watch Nice series, it shows how old railways and their heritage can be combined with the real life needs for good leisure facilities in a post industrial age. Worth a look at how the UK is using these old lines to their tourism economic benefit, we are only just learning how it can be done.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00dzz60

BBC - BBC Four Programmes - Railway Walks, The Birth of Steam
www.bbc.co.uk

foggy_lad · 04-05-2011 1:16pm

popebenny16 wrote: »

Is Rev Crookes a real person, or is this a "Dear John" exercise? I bet its really run-DWC or Ourladyofknockers

Is it a bit odd he signs off with D.Crooks from Donegal

:D:D

corktina wrote: »

and yet still some Reverend gentleman wants to re open it all the way to Derry via Donegal Town:rolleyes:

With first class and dining car?

dowlingm · 04-05-2011 4:25pm

My understanding is that there still needs to be some work done in Limerick to allow additional capacity additions on Ennis-Limerick such as a Sixmilebridge passing loop. Is that still the case?

wild handlin · 04-05-2011 6:14pm

Is this thread still going on about the same circular arguments of the line shouldnt be built waa waa waa!! :pac::pac::D:D

Seriously though, if we are comparing subvention for lines, putting the WRC on the map, I wonder where it stands with the likes of other lines? I don't see rants here on boards about how the likes of the Clonsilla - Dunboyne line appears to be little used, yet the Limerick - Galway line arguably has more users in comparrison...

Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

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