chance of a lifetime "King's Ametyst"

pedroeibar1 · 27-06-2014 11:49pm

Copper,
I’ve been looking at your rigging plan in post #115. I like the layout, coherent & efficient, everything back to the cockpit, easy for minimal crew and no need to go on deck. However, it looks different from the ‘side elevation’ if you look at the position of the winches. On the first it looks as if they are on the cabintop, on the other it looks as if they are alongside the cockpit. The cabintop position seems more sensible, as they can be used for the various halyards/uphauls/downhauls in the jammers. Once locked, the halyards etc are ok and the winches can then be used for the genoa sheets. Think about strengthening /reinforcement but more IMPORTANTLY the delivery angles of the various sheets/halyards etc. – get that angle wrong and you will have to live with riding turns. You do not want that.

Do go for furling genoa, I know it is a bit more expensive but believe me it is worth every penny. I’ve a Plastimo and I’m happy with it.

From what I can make out of the RHS schematic on this plan , you have twin backstays, forestay, inner forestay and three shrouds – cap shroud, inner shroud that ties in at the same point as the inner forestay on the mast and lower shroud that connects at the crosstrees.

Looking at photo 315 in post #116 it would seem that there was an external track or fitting on the mast into which the gooseneck fitting slotted. The angular holes either side were to receive an L-shaped reefing handle - simply wind it and the gear inside the fitting turned, thereby winding the main onto the boom.

The photo in #119 is 'historically' important. It seems that everything (uphauls/halyards/wiring) was outside the mast. The double block arrangement (on the shackle you can see) is the boom downhaul. The rest is anyone’s’ guess!

Heavy rain this afternoon in the SW, salmon will be running on tonight's tide, I'll be off with the rod in the morning!

copper12 · 28-06-2014 9:53am

The rigging plan in post #115’ gave me something that I could work with; and with my very limited knowledge of rigging’ allowed me to go around and look at yachts; and understand, what I was looking at.
A month or two ago; didn’t know what a halyard’ or a outhaul’ was, but with the help of people in this forum; I’m getting to know what I’m actually looking at
The building of the mast is a few months off; knowledge gained now; will determine how I attach the hardware
Or at least where it may need reinforcement .
The furling genoas depending on the cost; I will decide weather to buy them; or make my own .

The shrouds; there a four of them, there is a double attachment at the rear Chan plate’ I think this shroud attaches to the mast halfway between the crosstrees and the head of the mast

A question for anyone out there; can I attach the chain plates; to the outside of the hull; instead of the inside’ there was a lot of damage visible; caused by water ingress’ where the chain plate goes true the decking
The position of the winches
There is one’ either side of the cockpit’ and one lager one at the rear of the cockpit
I am thinking’ that I will need two more; if I run all ropes back to the cockpit’ so I can handle her by myself; it’s the location of these winches that will be critical
In my head’ I’m thinking to have some attachment; simpler’ to the one in photo 315 in post #116; the location will be below the gooseneck and inline with the top of the cockpit
Or just attach everything to the mast step and use guides to route the ropes
Thanks again for the advice both myself and I am sure others are learning a lot from these posts

Heavy rain this afternoon in the SW, salmon will be running on tonight's tide, I'll be off with the rod in the morning! Man after my own hart,
tied these up just in case there’s a drop of water on the river

BrensBenz · 29-06-2014 12:53am

copper12 wrote: »

A question for anyone out there; can I attach the chain plates; to the outside of the hull; instead of the inside. there was a lot of damage visible; caused by water ingress’ where the chain plate goes true the decking

As far as I know, there is only a slight mathematical advantage in having chainplates on the exterior of the hull and only a slight cosmetic disadvantage, but that's in the eye of the beholder. Of course, whether external or internal, they must be fixed to something rock solid. Have you removed ALL of the damaged material in the chainplate area?

During the renovation of my boat, I found not only the decks but the chainplate backing pieces (1" thick mahogany "plates", butted to the underside of the gunwale and shaped to sit on the top three clinker planks) were "mushy" and had to be replaced. Oh how I wished I had noticed this BEFORE I fitted new side decks!

copper12 · 29-06-2014 6:11am

While there were a lot of reasons’ for there being so much damage’ and rot’ to the area around where the chain plates, attach to the hull
A lot of this damage, was caused by water ingress; over the years’ that is why I would rather have them on the outside’ as you can see from the photos’ all of the damaged wood I have replaced

fergal.b · 29-06-2014 6:26am

copper12 · 29-06-2014 7:38am

pedroeibar1 · 29-06-2014 10:58am

Just wait until he gets the one for the ironmongery!:(

fergal.b · 29-06-2014 11:10am

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

Just wait until he gets the one for the ironmongery!:(

It might be worth calling into Hegarty's boat yard in Skibbereen it's a big yard full of bits from old wooden boats, they also do teaching classes so I'm sure they will help out any way they can.

.

pedroeibar1 · 29-06-2014 11:29am

Hope you had better luck than I on the river yesterday; despite the amount of rain the land seems to have soaked it up, the river level was very low and not much flow.

Furling genoa – this is essential if you are singlehanded. The photo ‘Drum3’ shows how the aluminium tube is covering the forestay and in it is a plastic liner that is the groove up which the boltrope of the sail slides. The drum on the foot is riveted to the tube and contains the line to furl the sail. An alternative would be to have the forestay sewn into the luff of the headsail. A swivel at the peak and a drum on the foot with another swivel and you have the same effect. I would not bother with a furling rig on the staysail. (And you need to think a bit more if you really need that sail???) If you are doing extensive cruising and no racing I would consider putting the foresail on a horse or maybe even having a boom foresail?

Chainplates – traditionally they were on the outside of the hull. I would not like them going through the deck. I have a plastic boat and the chainplates are bolted to the deck with a matching plate below that is reinforced by a bar attached to the hull I do not know if the stresses of a mast the size of yours would allow this……..

Shrouds – (terminology - they go to the sides, stays go in a fore/aft line.) The winch in the centre rear of the cockpit suggests (along with your comment ‘there is a double attachment at the rear Chain plate I think this shroud attaches to the mast halfway between the crosstrees and the head of the mast’ that the mast has running backstays (runners). The centre winch would be needed for them and could also be used for the spinnaker sheet/guy. Runners are a bitch at the best of times even with crew. I would change the rig to avoid them.

Going sailing!

kfod · 02-07-2014 12:35pm

We have running backstays on Teal. They add another dimension to tacking and I am in dread of a crash gybe! If you are planning on single handing it could be worth changing the rig to do away with them.

pedroeibar1 · 02-07-2014 5:59pm

Agreed – I once had a 7/8ths rig and detested the runners. Never again, hence my comments above.
Running backstays are really for a fractional rig – as KA is not fractional I’d guess that they are related to the staysail – i.e. they are rigged only when the staysail is set and shipped/tied to the base of the mast or shrouds when not in use. That is why I suggested the need for a staysail needs consideration.

copper12 · 02-07-2014 10:54pm

Evening all
Well I finally started putting stuff back into the boat; refitted the mahogany laths; in the stern area’ it would be very difficult to do these’ when the decking goes’ on as there is only a crawl space there’
I managed to save the copper nails’ and reuse them’ it turned out well’ I gave it two coats of varnish’ it got it’s first coat fifty years ago’:D
It will be another fifty before it see the light of day again

Also finished, reinforcing the area, around the mast steap’ I basically put things back’ the way I dismantled them’ bulk head’ and two ribs tied together’ with 10mm galvanised treaded bar’
I decided to take advantage of the fine weather’ and me shrunken timbers’

to start on the caulking ‘
Slow difficult work’ caulk between the garboard plank’ and the keel’ is as thick as your small finger’
I’ve attached a picture of the some of the caulk’ that I have removed’ some area’s it would take ten minuets to remove a meter of caulk’ and replace it’ others it would take two hours’ to just remove the caulk’ and five minuets to replace’ reminds me of the weeks’ I spent removing the paint off the hull

copper12 · 02-07-2014 11:02pm

From what I have seen from old pictures, and zooming in on the few technical drawings, I have managed to come across, she has not got running back stays
Two back stays, fixed to the mast head, and two shrouds, on either side, from the rear chain plate, one attached below the spreaders, and one attached, opposite the inner forestay
Hope that makes sense, thanks for the comments, Teals looking well; sail turned out well; after the cleaning

kfod · 02-07-2014 11:48pm

Cheers Copper, it's a shame I didn't get it cleaned up before the Baltimore Wooden Boat Festival, but if we waited till everything was perfect we'd never hit the water! That oxalic acid is mighty stuff for the rust, gotta attack the Jib and Staysail next

Glenalla · 03-07-2014 10:14am

Just be careful using oxalic acid on sails as it can damage the stitching.

kfod · 03-07-2014 11:35am

Hi Glenalla,

I knew it could weaken the sails alright, but they were in such a state and they are all, except the Genoa and maybe Topsail, going to be replaced this winter, that I thought it would be worth the chance. I wonder how long before any weakening would show up?

copper12 · 05-07-2014 12:58am

Open the seem’ twist and fit the cotton’ drive home the cotton
Open an other foot; twist and fit the cotton’ drive home the cotton
Fit plaster; :mad: swollen thumb’

open another foot’ twist and fit the cotton; drive home the cotton
Only an other 29 planks to go; thirty foot long, if I close one eye’ I can only see’ what I have done, and not what I have to do.

copper12 · 06-07-2014 5:46pm

Still caulking
The other half went on the town last night, so absolutely no hammering.
I needed to make a router table; so myself and Aldi, will make a start on that.
35 euros where would you get it

I’m getting fairly handy at the old carpentry stuff

pedroeibar1 · 06-07-2014 11:17pm

copper12 wrote: »

Open the seem’ twist and fit the cotton’ drive home the cotton
Open an other foot; twist and fit the cotton’ drive home the cotton
Fit plaster; :mad: swollen thumb’ open another foot’ twist and fit the cotton; drive home the cotton
Only an other 29 planks to go; thirty foot long, if I close one eye’ I can only see’ what I have done, and not what I have to do.

FWIW, that's supposedly where expression 'the Devil to pay' originates. Caulking is also known as 'paying'. You've paid the price!:)

copper12 · 09-07-2014 7:58pm

Evening all
Still caulking
I have a right arm; Arnold Syasenager; would be proud of
I managed to find some photos of yachts’ similar to mine
I would appreciate if people could have a look
I think I have enough information’ to enable me to build the mast’ there just one thing.
I the photos’ it would seem that the mast’ has two tapers, one from the mast step’ and reaches just below where the winches are attached’ the other from the spreaders; and goes to the mast head .
At the mast step. it measures 120mm; 4 ¾ inches; looking at some of the photos; it would seam to increase to 200mm; 8 inches; and then reduce to the mast head .
Have a look let me know what you think .
There’s quite a few there

copper12 · 09-07-2014 7:59pm

few more

copper12 · 09-07-2014 8:00pm

last couple

copper12 · 11-07-2014 7:24pm

Seeing that there’s not a lot happening; hammer’ twist’

Anyone who caulks boats; for a living there’s a place in heaven for ya

Since I’m hopefully’ only going to do this once’ I didn’t invest in any tools; for this job instead; I dáfeacked’ :pac: a few tools, namely a chisel; and a saw blade’ works a treat
Removing the old rotten boards; gave me the chance. to see how she was Original anal caulked. one single strand of cotton twine. down the centre of the plank; this I would think. was done ;while she was being planked’
Planks are 22mm thick; I’ve basically done the same. one single strand of cotton twine. two types, thick and thicker:p . I ground down a chisel 10mm; with a slight bevel’ this was by accident’ rather than design, but it allowed the chisel to ride the bevel in the seems.
I have the port side done, and have started on the starboard side, I am taking advantage of the fact that; her planks have shrunk; and some of the seems have opened up; I will leave the putty alone, until I am ready to paint her, that should give the planks, time to swell; well that’s the plan:o
Below are a few picks

tinski07 · 11-07-2014 8:05pm

Be sure to prime your seams after caulking, with a good primer, they used to use red lead but good aluminium primer will do. She will probably tend to shrink more without the putty but its a good opportunity to absolutely saturate her in boiled oil and paraffin. That will start her taking up, preserve her and stop further shrinkage. When I say saturate, we probably put 20 gallons of paraffin into Teal over a few weeks, You have to do it before the putty as it will melt it.
Its all advice I took from the professionals and which I used. But make sure all your gluing is finished.

The primer prevents the cotton from rotting.

PS, Don't smoke near by

copper12 · 12-07-2014 5:32am

tinski07
Where would I buy 25lt drums of linseed oil

tinski07 · 12-07-2014 8:19am

No what you need is a big drum of paraffin and stick as much linseed oil into it as you want to pay for, I was buying 25euros of paraffin and adding a liter of linseed oil to it then spraying it on with a garden weed sprayer inside and out as often as possible.
Usually when I had finished up for the day because you don't want to be working on it for a few hours after.
The plumbing shop in Skibbereen sells paraffin by what ever quantity you want, not sure how easy it is to get elsewhere.

copper12 · 12-07-2014 8:46am

Just a couple of questions ;
Did you heat the paraffin oil mixture ;
Is there any lingering smell ;
Had you any problems painting her later ;
Do you think, there would be any problems’ varnishing over wood’ treated in this way
Increasing the amount of linseed oil; would this be better or worse

tinski07 · 12-07-2014 11:29am

No you don't need to heat it, Just throw in the bottle of linseed oil and shake the lot up a bit.
Its fairly potent just after you put it on but its fine again the next day and I was working in the tent when I was treating Teal.
There's no issue with painting after, Not sure about varnish but I doubt you'd have any problem.
You have to stop before puttying anyway and as the putty takes couple of months to dry before painting you won't even no you had put the stuff on.
The mix I used was probably pretty weak, They use different mixes for different reasons, The paraffin seems to soak deep into the timber and carries with it the oil. I was told to put neat paraffin on the summer before I took the paint of to help her out a bit. Then the mix to start her taking up before caulking and puttying.
Apparently when building them in the past they would soak the inside until it came out on the outside.

If there is anything I found restoring a wooden boat is that there are absolutely no hard or fast rules about anything and there are lots of ways of doing everything. You just have to suit yourself, your boat and your pocket.

copper12 · 16-07-2014 12:14am

evening all
still Caulking
Taking tinski advise, I have sourced some paraffin oil, aka kerosene ,
And four litre drum of boiled linseed oil
So I have to fit a thousand or so bungs, and fit some spleens
I am still using the riconsenoil glue, great stuff , I make up about a half litre; of the stuff, and what I don’t use,
I put in the freezer' it stops it going off, and allows me to use a tea spoon amount, at a time,
Plastic drink cups,, from water dispensers‘, are very handy for holding small amounts of glue,
An old stiff tooth brush, for spreading, easily cleaned, with warm water ‘allows you to use it often’
I had planed on starting on the decking’ but for now’ I will be plugging away’:p with the mahogany plugs’:D
And twisting cotton :rolleyes:
I had intended to post a few photos but getting them from the phone to the boards they have got lost in cyber space god only knows where they have ended up
:mad:

copper12 · 16-07-2014 12:18am

found them :P

chance of a lifetime "King's Ametyst"

Comments