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Shooting Forum - Firearms licencing information


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Mod refused

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  • 08-10-2014 3:47pm
    #1
    Beretta man
    Registered Users Posts: 458 ✭✭


    Lads was refused a mod today for .223,sent in letter with usual excuses,horses,shooting late at night and my hearing
    Refused over phone that I hadn't enough reason..
    Why can't I get written confirmation of the refusal


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    #2
    Sparks
    Registered Users Posts: 40,055 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    Did you ask for written confirmation?


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    #3
    Beretta man
    Registered Users Posts: 458 ✭✭Beretta man


    Sparks wrote: »
    Did you ask for written confirmation?

    Yes but was told if the person selling it to me wants to ring them they will confirm over the phone


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    #4
    Sparks
    Registered Users Posts: 40,055 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    At which point you ought to politely thank them and ask for written confirmation anyway. (No need to be impolite, but you should insist).


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    #5
    hiddenmongoose
    Registered Users Posts: 425 ✭✭hiddenmongoose


    If you have given all the valid reasons for owning a mod and you get turned down, where do you go from there?Im potentially in the same boat at the moment


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    #6
    Sparks
    Registered Users Posts: 40,055 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    If the Super themselves has said no and you can't persuade him/her informally to change their mind, you're pretty much left with the District Court (moderators are legally firearms, hence this is a licencing decision, hence you appeal it the same way you'd appeal any other licencing decision).

    You might run into some contention over whether it's a firearms certificate or an authorisation I suppose, but I find it hard to see how that'd hold water when 2(5) doesn't allow a super to grant a three-year authorisation. But that's a matter for the solicitor you'd hire if you were wise and still wanted to pursue this, I suppose. You'd be looking at a lot of money though, and a lot of stress and anxiety and so on. Not saying don't do it; but if you are going to do it, go into it eyes wide open.

    edit: And in case I wasn't being clear, you really, really, really, really want to leave the courts as your absolute last resort. Every other avenue will be cheaper, easier, more hassle-free and probably both faster and more free of side-effects...


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    #7
    wirehairmax
    Registered Users Posts: 678 ✭✭✭wirehairmax


    If you're a member of the NARGC its worthwhile giving them a call. I'm sure they could advise you either way before you hand over money to a solicitor.


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    #8
    deeksofdoom
    Registered Users Posts: 2,016 ✭✭✭deeksofdoom


    NARGC will do nothing for you.

    Its a bummer that you got turned down, I have a mod on my rifle when I go out, they are an essential piece of kit imo. They just save you so mich hassle with noise.

    If I were you I'ld ask to meet the super to discuss it, get your written refusal first.


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    #9
    Lotharmike
    Closed Accounts Posts: 333 ✭✭Lotharmike


    I had a meeting with my super a few weeks ago,I have a mod for all my rifles & have had since the day I got them.When the issue of the mod came up in the meeting I explained to him it was a extra expense of roughly €300 a mod I have to endure to keep the land owners happy & my hearing as it is some way respectable.I really do not know what the problem with some of the supers is .Its not as if you are asking them to pay for the mods.I personally believe all rifles should have a moderator fitted as standard.The Super in the interview said to me he never viewed the mod question that way & signed off on it.A little communication & calm discussion goes a long way.Hope you get sorted.
    Mike


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    #10
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Until you have the refusal in writing, you haven't legally been refused. Try arrange a meeting with your Super and spell out your case for needing a moderator.

    Legal action should only be used as a last resort.


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    #11
    Beretta man
    Registered Users Posts: 458 ✭✭Beretta man


    Well lads had a meeting with Super today and after a good debate and he put his worries on the table I was granted the moderator on my licence..
    It's been a long road but can't wait to get my new tikka t3 lite .223 with licenced moderator


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    #12
    Sparks
    Registered Users Posts: 40,055 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    Excellent end result!


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    #13
    bravestar
    Registered Users Posts: 1,082 ✭✭✭bravestar


    Beretta man wrote: »
    Well lads had a meeting with Super today and after a good debate and he put his worries on the table I was granted the moderator on my licence..
    It's been a long road but can't wait to get my new tikka t3 lite .223 with licenced moderator

    Glad it turned out well for you. It's amazing what a bit of face time can do.


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    #14
    Holdover
    Registered Users Posts: 62 ✭✭Holdover


    Great result for you!
    It goes to show there's nothing like meeting someone face to face.


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    #15
    Vegeta
    Registered Users Posts: 11,394 ✭✭✭✭Vegeta


    Fair play, great result. Had a meeting with my Super for mod permission too. Very professional guy.


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    #16
    Longranger
    Registered Users Posts: 961 ✭✭✭Longranger


    Went through it a few years ago when I got my hmr, laid out my case and after twenty minutes of the finest sh1te talk he granted it with no worries. I then mentioned to him that I was looking at a 6.5x55 for deer (he had never heard of such a calibre) and he told me to ask for him personally when I was applying so he could talk more about said calibre, he even made me a cup of tea! Needless to say he granted the mod before I asked as he thought it was a good idea as "that one should have a fair ould whack out of it"! He's gone elsewhere since and the new lad is sound as he did a good bit if shooting in his youth. Its amazing what you'll get if you sit down quietly and just ask.
    Good luck with your new set up and happy hunting!
    LR


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    #17
    Heckler
    Registered Users Posts: 3,322 ✭✭✭Heckler


    Beretta man wrote: »
    Well lads had a meeting with Super today and after a good debate and he put his worries on the table I was granted the moderator on my licence..
    It's been a long road but can't wait to get my new tikka t3 lite .223 with licenced moderator

    I don't hunt which I guess is the main reason for a moderator but what exactly was the Supers worries ? What on earth are they worried about ? Why is there even an issue with granting moderators ? Sure you can have a gun license but something to make it a bit quieter ? No no no. I don't get it.

    Glad you got a good result though !


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    #18
    oldtart
    Registered Users Posts: 62 ✭✭oldtart


    Heckler wrote: »
    I don't hunt which I guess is the main reason for a moderator but what exactly was the Supers worries ? What on earth are they worried about ? Why is there even an issue with granting moderators ? Sure you can have a gun license but something to make it a bit quieter ? No no no. I don't get it.

    Glad you got a good result though !

    It's more illogical non-joined up thinking. "They" think that people will engage in illegal activities if they have a suppressor, ie poaching, sniping politicians and shooting holes in road signs. If some criminal has an unlicenced rifle, I'm sure he wouldn't give a sh*t about screwing a little tube on the end of the barrel.


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    #19
    hiddenmongoose
    Registered Users Posts: 425 ✭✭hiddenmongoose


    double post


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    #20
    hiddenmongoose
    Registered Users Posts: 425 ✭✭hiddenmongoose


    Heckler wrote: »
    I don't hunt which I guess is the main reason for a moderator but what exactly was the Supers worries ? What on earth are they worried about ? Why is there even an issue with granting moderators ? Sure you can have a gun license but something to make it a bit quieter ? No no no. I don't get it.

    yesterdays DC court rulings may make them think twice about refusing to isuue things like this just because they dont like the idea of them.


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    #21
    darg
    Registered Users Posts: 142 ✭✭darg


    ^^^^Care to enlighten us??


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    #22
    hiddenmongoose
    Registered Users Posts: 425 ✭✭hiddenmongoose


    darg wrote: »
    ^^^^Care to enlighten us??

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057306036

    If I read this right any DC court cases won will now be also awarded costs and such costs will come from the garda budget therefore I would imagine supers will be less likely to refuse licences/moderator applications without a valid/just reason(as opposed to lots of the frivolous reasons such as 'I just dont like moderators) as if they do and lose in court Im sure they will now have to answer to superiors as to why x amount of cases were brought to court and x amount of euro is now being paid out of the garda budget.
    Im sure grizzly can add to this.


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    #23
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,949 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Got it pretty much there HM.As well as that,I have the written submission on my application for a silencer for my .243 and the reasons I put down for mine were accepted without question in writing as sound by the new Garda ballistics man in his report on my rifle back to the CS.:cool:

    They are;
    1] EU noise directives.That states noise must be suppressed as much as possible at source,rather than secondary protection measures to be emplaced.That means build quieter jet engines and no fly times at airports rather than build anti noise blast walls at the end of the runway.Stop straight pipe boy racers,or add silencers to firearms. [The last bit is pretty important too if you are a pro or semi pro stalker too,as your stalking falls under the H&S regulations regarding noise in "the workplace"]

    2] The location where I shoot is a natural echo chamber and a shot report is amplified three or four times.As it is pretty hilly with some ravines,there is a good chance of panicking livestock over a hidden ravine.Not to mind it is annoying for residents at the end of the valley mouth to be woken by a seemingly artillery barrage at oh dark hunderd.

    3] I physically cannot wear ear defenders while using a rifle of any type.
    Plus I belive them to be a major hinderance and actually downright dangerous while hunting.Due to the fact that while they might pick up conversations all right,they impede your sense of direction from where the conversation might be coming from. Try standing in a forest one windy,or not day and wear them and get somone to have a chat walking towards,besides and away from you at varying distances and see how difficult or not it is to try and locate them .Plus being battery operated,a certain law named after a Mr Murphy tends to kick in at the worst possible time too.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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    #24
    deeksofdoom
    Registered Users Posts: 2,016 ✭✭✭deeksofdoom


    EU noise directives, would a super actually take any notice of you if you started quoting these?


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    #25
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,949 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    He did in my case.:)
    But yes,he does as it is an EU directive and has to be implimented by any and all concerned.Otherwise why would the Gaurds be pulling people with too loud and modified exhausts?Especially if you are a pro or part time stalker,they kick in about noise in the workplace under H&S legislation which is part of Irish work law. Granted,it sounds odd and they will have a job getting their heads around it.But it is going to be hard to argue against your own ballistics experts who said the above reasoning was sound in one of his reports to a cheif super,and it was to be used as court evidence.:)

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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    #26
    Sparks
    Registered Users Posts: 40,055 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    I don't think that's quite how the EU directives work Grizz - they require the Irish government to pass laws to implement them here, so they *should* work that way, but our little state often manages to do things in ways other than the way they should. Hell, look at VRT!

    I'd put a lot more faith in the Garda Ballistics expert report than in an EU directive when it comes to be effective in a courtroom.

    Mind you, it's the kind of thing that in a sane world could be resolved outside the courtroom. That's a real expensive room to be sitting in!


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    #27
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,949 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Indeed it should Sparks,indeed it should. However while having a chat with the opposition during a break of legal wrangling.I did say to both of the ballistics experts that this was a bad way to do things and that we should be talking to each other over ta conference table someplace and not in a court room.Their replies were pretty much "Ah sure thats just the way it is and thats "the system" for you."
    What can you do??:(

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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    #28
    Sparks
    Registered Users Posts: 40,055 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    What can you do??:(
    What, everyone sitting down at a table and working through the problems with the legislation in a non-dramatic unsexy fashion?

    Naw, it'll never happen Grizz, you're just kidding yourself, it's deeply unrealistic and terribly naive, us old hands who've been around forever know it can't ever happen, who'd ever get on board with that anyway, it's not like the shooting bodies would ever get in the same room at the same time, it just wouldn't work...

    :rolleyes:


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    #29
    Beretta man
    Registered Users Posts: 458 ✭✭Beretta man


    Got my licence today by post and it's got the magic S
    Also got approved for 500 rounds of ammo


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    #30
    Connemara Farmer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,975 ✭✭✭Connemara Farmer


    Beretta man wrote: »
    he put his worries on the table

    Do you mind me asking what his worries were? Half being nosey, half trying to get an insight into the mind of a Super.


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    #31
    mrbrianj
    Registered Users Posts: 383 ✭✭mrbrianj


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    Indeed it should Sparks,indeed it should. However while having a chat with the opposition during a break of legal wrangling.I did say to both of the ballistics experts that this was a bad way to do things and that we should be talking to each other over ta conference table someplace and not in a court room.Their replies were pretty much "Ah sure thats just the way it is and thats "the system" for you."
    What can you do??:(

    Grizzly, is it a case of court days equal mega overtime?


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