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Shane Carwin linked to steriods case

24

Comments

  • #32
    rovert
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,089 ✭✭✭✭rovert


    Fromvert wrote: »
    I think Rovert already has that.

    Can you blame me on here?

    Personally I’m not shocked or disappointed that he may have used steroids, just dismayed that Carwin left a paper trail using his legit contact details.
    Gerard.C wrote: »
    So does this mean that Brock, after nearly dying, bet someone who has been on steroids half his career? What a legend. Best in the sport

    For the second time in his career. Remember Wrestlemania XIX?


  • #33
    seadnamac
    Registered Users Posts: 1,103 ✭✭✭seadnamac


    Plastikman_eire wrote: »
    Not in my opinion. Neither guy has ever pissed hot after a fight, so can't be considered cheats. However there is a large question mark over both.

    Carwin has allegedly been on steriods while competing as a professional mixed martial arts fighter. Lesnar was allegedly on steriods for a period six years before he began competing as a mixed martial arts fighter. How can you compare the two? Bah, I knew this would turn into a Lesnar thing....


  • #34
    Plastikman_eire
    Registered Users Posts: 427 ✭✭Plastikman_eire


    seadnamac wrote: »
    Carwin has allegedly been on steriods while competing as a professional mixed martial arts fighter. Lesnar was allegedly on steriods for a period six years before he began competing as a mixed martial arts fighter. How can you compare the two? Bah, I knew this would turn into a Lesnar thing....

    The facts are that neither have failed a test for PEDs, both have evidence against them to suggest they have used in the past. EVERYTHING else is just speculation.


  • #35
    Gerard.C
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭Gerard.C


    MrStuffins wrote: »
    Bring on Fedor eh? :P

    He's not even in the top 5 rankings I'd say. How could he last with Lesnar, Cain or a roided up Crawin when he cant get out of rd 1 with Werdum?


  • #36
    seadnamac
    Registered Users Posts: 1,103 ✭✭✭seadnamac


    Gerard.C wrote: »
    He's not even in the top 5 rankings I'd say. How could he last with Lesnar, Cain or a roided up Crawin when he cant get out of rd 1 with Werdum?

    Exactly. I reckon he should go back and try his luck in the local scene in Russia. He would enjoy it there, that's where all the real fans are.


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  • #37
    rovert
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,089 ✭✭✭✭rovert


    Plastikman_eire wrote: »
    The facts are that neither have failed a test for PEDs, both have evidence against them to suggest they have used in the past. EVERYTHING else is just speculation.

    Oh dear

    Way to miss the point.


  • #38
    seadnamac
    Registered Users Posts: 1,103 ✭✭✭seadnamac


    Plastikman_eire wrote: »
    The facts are that neither have failed a test for PEDs, both have evidence against them to suggest they have used in the past. EVERYTHING else is just speculation.

    Fair enough, although personally I think the context of when exactly that 'past' refers to should be kept in mind.


  • #39
    Gerard.C
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭Gerard.C


    seadnamac wrote: »
    Exactly. I reckon he should go back and try his luck in the local scene in Russia. He would enjoy it there, that's where all the real fans are.

    But Fedor is a celebrity now, so he wouldnt really be welcome in his local scene any more. Keep the celebs on the Telly where they belong, they would only take the heart out of the true local scene


  • #40
    rovert
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,089 ✭✭✭✭rovert


    seadnamac wrote: »
    Fair enough, although personally I think the context of when exactly that 'past' refers to should be kept in mind.

    Lets look at the context:
    Brock used legally prescribed HGH from a doctor for comestic reasons in an entertainment genre which was turning a blind eye from the top down.

    Carwin used illegally prescribed amounts of a number of different steriods from a bent doctor to get a competitive advantage in an athletic contest.


  • #41
    Plastikman_eire
    Registered Users Posts: 427 ✭✭Plastikman_eire


    rovert wrote: »
    Oh dear

    Way to miss the point.

    Not really.

    You are implying that Carwin is a cheater because he (allegedly)ordered PED's during a period he was fighting. You might be correct, but as he has never failed a test it is just speculation regardless of any circumstantial evidence.


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  • #42
    rovert
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,089 ✭✭✭✭rovert


    See my previous post, Plastikman_eire
    Plastikman_eire wrote: »
    Not really.

    You are implying that Carwin is a cheater because he (allegedly)ordered PED's during a period he was fighting. You might be correct, but as he has never failed a test it is just speculation.

    So he was "tricked" into ordering them? Did his finger slip on the "order now" button? Was he doing research? Was the money only resting in his account?


  • #43
    seadnamac
    Registered Users Posts: 1,103 ✭✭✭seadnamac


    rovert wrote: »
    Lets look at the context:
    Brock used legally prescribed HGH from a doctor for comestic reasons in an entertainment genre which was turning a blind eye from the top down.

    Carwin used illegally prescribed amounts of a number of different steriods from a bent doctor to get a competitive advantage in an athletic contest.

    Now now, let's not let facts get in the way of an oppurtunity to bash that poxy celebrity Lesnar. He's bad for the sport you know.


  • #44
    cowzerp
    Registered Users Posts: 10,549 ✭✭✭✭cowzerp


    Lads enough of the sarcastic replies in relation to that other troublesome thread, also there is no proof that he took steroids, there is allegations he ordered some, thats it-leave it at that.

    Rush Boxing club and Rush Martial Arts head coach.



  • #45
    barochoc
    Registered Users Posts: 293 ✭✭barochoc


    Wow, lets all jump on the "He's Guilty" bandwagon. :mad:

    Innocent until proven guilty eh???? :confused:

    I'm sure you guys would expect the same treatment if you got dragged in to a case like this. :eek:

    Shane Carwin LINKED, did you read that bit? LINKED!!!!!

    His name may not even have been used. It could be an assumption made by the initials.

    Wait till all the facts are out before shooting your mouth off people & then may be others will take you more seriously in future.

    This is a typical race to say "I told you so"


  • #46
    rovert
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,089 ✭✭✭✭rovert


    barochoc wrote: »
    Wow, lets all jump on the "He's Guilty" bandwagon. :mad:

    Innocent until proven guilty eh???? :confused:

    I'm sure you guys would expect the same treatment if you got dragged in to a case like this. :eek:

    Shane Carwin LINKED, did you read that bit? LINKED!!!!!

    His name may not even have been used. It could be an assumption made by the initials.

    Wait till all the facts are out before shooting your mouth off people & then may be others will take you more seriously in future.

    This is a typical race to say "I told you so"

    Who said he was guilty?

    All anyone ever said that his reaction to the news is....interesting.


  • #47
    Clive
    Registered Users Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭Clive


    Just a few points for any doping debate:

    1. Legal/illegal and permitted in sport/prohibited in sport are different things. Many substances are legal in some places, but prohibited.

    2. Prohibited in-competition and out-of-competition are different.

    3. Depending on the rules, possession can be an anti-doping violation, and punishment can be made after the fact.

    4. There is no presumption of innocence. If you have a prohibited substance in your body (or your possession if that applies) you are guilty. You can try to prove your innocence after that. Strict athlete liability applies.


  • #48
    barochoc
    Registered Users Posts: 293 ✭✭barochoc


    rovert wrote: »
    Who said he was guilty?

    All anyone ever said that his reaction to the news is....interesting.

    Twist it all you like, your comments only read one way & that's the way I read it & many others who come on here will do the same.

    Are you saying he's innocent now?


  • #49
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users Posts: 19,145 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    barochoc wrote: »
    Wow, lets all jump on the "He's Guilty" bandwagon. :mad:

    Innocent until proven guilty eh???? :confused:

    I'm sure you guys would expect the same treatment if you got dragged in to a case like this. :eek:

    Shane Carwin LINKED, did you read that bit? LINKED!!!!!

    His name may not even have been used. It could be an assumption made by the initials.

    Wait till all the facts are out before shooting your mouth off people & then may be others will take you more seriously in future.

    This is a typical race to say "I told you so"

    I agree here. He should be considered innocent until proven guilty.

    Just because he said "I didn't do it", doesn't mean he did it!

    If he had said "The stories are lies, i didn't do anything wrong" i doubt anyone would be quick to say "well, he said he didn't do it, so he must not have done it"


  • #50
    rovert
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,089 ✭✭✭✭rovert


    barochoc wrote: »
    Twist it all you like, your comments only read one way & that's the way I read it & many others who come on here will do the same.

    Are you saying he's innocent now?

    How am I twisting?

    Saying he is innocent now? When did I say he was guilty?


  • #51
    Plastikman_eire
    Registered Users Posts: 427 ✭✭Plastikman_eire


    rovert wrote: »
    See my previous post, Plastikman_eire



    So he was "tricked" into ordering them? Did his finger slip on the "order now" button? Was he doing research? Was the money only resting in his account?

    Ordering PED's isnt cheating. So at risk of sounding like a broken record; Until a fighter tests positive for performance enhancers then they can not be labelled a cheat.


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  • #52
    rovert
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,089 ✭✭✭✭rovert


    Plastikman_eire wrote: »
    Ordering PED's isnt cheating. So at risk of sounding like a broken record; Until a fighter tests positive for performance enhancers then they can not be labelled a cheat.

    Why would you order PEDs if you didnt want to cheat? A bit oxymoronic no?


  • #53
    barochoc
    Registered Users Posts: 293 ✭✭barochoc


    MrStuffins wrote: »
    I agree here. He should be considered innocent until proven guilty.

    Just because he said "I didn't do it", doesn't mean he did it!

    If he had said "The stories are lies, i didn't do anything wrong" i doubt anyone would be quick to say "well, he said he didn't do it, so he must not have done it"

    I hear you, but it amazes me how quick people react & say "It's no surprise" (Basically saying, I knew all along)

    I've been a long time MMA & Cycling Fan. Cycling is destroyed with every conceivable drug on the planet. I still watch & marvel because they're still incredible athletes.

    Stories come out almost every week about Lance Armstrong cheating yet he never tested positive, even though he was the most tested athlete on the planet at one stage!!!!!

    The Athletic commissions in MMA around the USA are very strict on substance abuse & it's the reason most people believe that certain fighters won't & don't fight in USA!

    Carwin has not tested positive in competition & if he did while in the UFC they'd have him out on his ass!


  • #54
    Fozzy
    Registered Users Posts: 8,594 ✭✭✭Fozzy


    Clearly he ordered the steroids without ever intending to use them, go easy on him


  • #55
    barochoc
    Registered Users Posts: 293 ✭✭barochoc


    rovert wrote: »
    Why would you order PEDs if you didnt want to cheat? A bit oxymoronic no?

    He probably had a sick horse or similar animal that needed a little help with recovery! :D


  • #56
    rovert
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,089 ✭✭✭✭rovert


    Fozzy wrote: »
    Clearly he ordered the steroids without ever intending to use them, go easy on him

    and over an 8 month period....


  • #57
    Plastikman_eire
    Registered Users Posts: 427 ✭✭Plastikman_eire


    rovert wrote: »
    Why would you order PEDs if you didnt want to cheat? A bit oxymoronic no?

    Who knows?

    Why would Brock not continue to use something like HGH to gain an advantage if he knew tests couldnt detect it? I mean he's used it before right?

    We can speculate about **** all day long. Until a fighter tests positive we are just talking sh.it


  • #58
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users Posts: 19,145 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    barochoc wrote: »
    I hear you, but it amazes me how quick people react & say "It's no surprise" (Basically saying, I knew all along)

    I've been a long time MMA & Cycling Fan. Cycling is destroyed with every conceivable drug on the planet. I still watch & marvel because they're still incredible athletes.

    Stories come out almost every week about Lance Armstrong cheating yet he never tested positive, even though he was the most tested athlete on the planet at one stage!!!!!

    The Athletic commissions in MMA around the USA are very strict on substance abuse & it's the reason most people believe that certain fighters won't & don't fight in USA!

    Carwin has not tested positive in competition & if he did while in the UFC they'd have him out on his ass!

    Sorry, but unless you stand watching cyclists in the street, can you call yourself a real fan? :pac:

    In seriousness though, he hasn't failed any drug tests. If people were convicted for crimes just because their name had been linked to them, we'd all be in prison! (or is it just me? :P)

    Until some FACTS are established, i don't think people should be hinting that his non reaction indicated guilt!


    (although, if he admits it today, im gonna edit all my posts and then say "I told you so!")


  • #59
    rovert
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,089 ✭✭✭✭rovert


    Plastikman_eire wrote: »
    Who knows?

    Why would Brock not continue to use something like HGH to gain an advantage if he new tests couldnt detect it? I mean he's used it before right?

    We can speculate about **** all day long. Until a fighter tests positive we are just talking sh.it

    Again not really for all the reasons Ive stated above. Brock never got caught purchasing illegally from a qwack doctor over an 8 month period. If fairness Carwin's situation is a lot more than just a scenario.


  • #60
    Fozzy
    Registered Users Posts: 8,594 ✭✭✭Fozzy


    I just checked where Carwin's first five fights took place. Two in California, two in Texas and one in Hawaii. Those fights all took place before April 2007, which is when California first started testing for steroids

    So in at least two of these cases, there was no chance of him failing any test


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  • #61
    Plastikman_eire
    Registered Users Posts: 427 ✭✭Plastikman_eire


    rovert wrote: »
    Again not really for all the reasons Ive stated above. Brock never got caught purchasing illegally from a qwack doctor over an 8 month period. If fairness Carwin's situation is a lot more than just a scenario.

    Quite the opposite. Carwin, from what I've read, is linked to this because of intials matching his are on an order form belonging to a guy who was busted for distribution. Brock got caught red handed with HGH. So in both cases it is more then a scenario.


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