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Abortion Discussion

24567…334

Comments

  • #32
    Sarky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,967 ✭✭✭✭Sarky


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    Explain the sceario where an Irish woman at 24 weeks pregnant claims to be feeling suicidal and is booked in for an abortion and the foetus/newborn becomes viable post-abortion.

    Explain the actual procedure that enables this to happen.

    I think "F*CKING MAGIC, YO" is the most viable way for that scenario to occur.


  • #33
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    bumper234 wrote:
    The moment they start shoving things in peoples faces and screaming abuse at people they have moved beyond peaceful and ergo deserve whatever consequences befall them.
    I hope and presume that you're referring to "legal consequences" -- anything other than that is considered unhelpful and may well be subject to moderator action.


  • #34
    IT-Guy
    Registered Users Posts: 514 ✭✭✭IT-Guy


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    (... but now I will make an attempt to explain why we do avoid the difficult question that doesn't involve accepting the horrendous realities)

    Care to back up these horrendous realities with some stats? How many women have listed the reasons for their abortion as 'going on hols...lol', 'wrong size, here's my receipt' oh and let's not forget the scenario of 'racist lady has one night stand with a black man and doesn't want a mixed-race baby cos she's racist'. Honestly, you couldn't make this s**t up!


  • #35
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    Explain the sceario where an Irish woman at 24 weeks pregnant claims to be feeling suicidal and is booked in for an abortion and the foetus/newborn becomes viable post-abortion.

    Explain the actual procedure that enables this to happen.

    I don't know if anyone here can describe the process in detail as we are not, as far as I know, doctors of neonatal medicine. I suggest finding someone who is and directing your questions about the minutiae of procedures towards them.


  • #36
    28064212
    Registered Users Posts: 10,455 ✭✭✭✭28064212


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    Explain the sceario where an Irish woman at 24 weeks pregnant claims to be feeling suicidal and is booked in for an abortion and the foetus/newborn becomes viable post-abortion.

    Explain the actual procedure that enables this to happen.
    The same way it would happen with a woman who's life is threatened by a physical illness from a pregnancy. The 8th Amendment is still in force. The Supreme Court judgement is still in force. The only thing this legislation changes is to give force to the suicidal clause, and protect the doctors who have to actually make the decision

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  • #37
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    Zombrex wrote: »
    You seem to have latched on to this notion that an "abortion procedure" is a procedure to try and kill the foetus come hell or high water, and the idea that if a foetus survived the removal procedure and the termination of pregnancy and is viable it will be killed anyway because you think the purpose of the abortion procedure is to get rid of the baby or the mother doesn't have to worry about it rather than simply remove it from the woman's womb.

    Instead of asking everyone else to prove to your satisfaction that this isn't the case, perhaps it would be easier if you just explain where they hell you go that idea from in the first place.
    .
    THE Health Department is investigating the cases of 14 babies left to die after surviving abortion attempts.

     From July 1999 to June 2010 there were 14 cases of post-20http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=85463978-week abortion procedures resulting in the live birth of a child. At least one of the babies was born after 26 weeks gestation.
    In all of the cases, no treatment or resuscitation attempts for the babies were recorded by the hospital.
    Labor MPs Ed Dermer and Kate Doust have called for a parliamentary inquiry into the deaths and hospital guidelines that say the babies should not have been given medical care or a chance at life. http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western-australia/could-14-babies-be-alive-today/story-e6frg153-1226315339013?sv=c34a88b5ee4c5c8960f208791ca1f4d9
    66 babies in a year left to die after NHS abortions that go wrong

    By BEEZY MARSH
    Last updated at 15:55 04 February 2008

    Botched abortions mean that scores of babies are being born alive and left to die, an official report has revealed.
    A total of 66 infants survived NHS termination attempts in one year alone, it emerged.
    Rather than dying at birth as was intended, they were able to breathe unaided. About half were alive for an hour, while one survived ten hours.

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-512129/66-babies-year-left-die-NHS-abortions-wrong.html#ixzz2YeMGPObY
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook


  • #38
    Turtwig
    Registered Users Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    Doctoremma went through the procedures in fairly good detail in a post in the previous thread. Will see if I can find it. :)


  • #39
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    So you think it would be "funny" to see peaceful protestors attacked as well as wishing violence on them for peacefully protesting.

    Again stop ****ing twisting words to fit your own sick agenda. Show me where i said i think it would be funny to see PEACEFUL protesters attacked as well as wishing violence on them for peacefully protesting.


  • #40
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    28064212 wrote: »
    The same way it would happen with a woman who's life is threatened by a physical illness from a pregnancy.
    Which is what?

    Again, what is the realistic scenario where a 24 week foetus, which could potentially survive outside the womb survives an abortion. What is the abortion method that occurs that makes this likely?


  • #41
    ShooterSF
    Registered Users Posts: 8,824 ✭✭✭ShooterSF


    So is all this good weather a sign from God that he supports this legislation?


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  • #42
    Zombrex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,848 ✭✭✭✭Zombrex


    Sarky wrote: »
    I think "F*CKING MAGIC, YO" is the most viable way for that scenario to occur.

    Dang, my first guess was "JESUS!", but now you mention it ...


  • #43
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    robindch wrote: »
    I hope and presume that you're referring to "legal consequences" -- anything other than that is considered unhelpful and may well be subject to moderator action.

    Oh of course sir ;)


  • #44
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    .

    We have the NHS in Ireland now????

    Oh...we don't. In Ireland we prefer women to die before allowing them a termination. That's soooo much better.


  • #45
    28064212
    Registered Users Posts: 10,455 ✭✭✭✭28064212


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    Which is what?

    Again, what is the realistic scenario where a 24 week foetus, which could potentially survive outside the womb survives an abortion. What is the abortion method that occurs that makes this likely?
    Caesarean or delivery would be my guess. Again, the doctors have the responsibility to do everything they can to save the child. Which has been explained to you multiple times. So instead of asking leading questions and posing hypotheticals that change from post to post, why don't you actually state what you think is going to happen, and what you have a problem with?

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  • #46
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    We have the NHS in Ireland now????

    Oh...we don't. In Ireland we prefer women to die before allowing them a termination. That's soooo much better.

    Ah yes but at least that nice brown woman is now in heaven with the one true god right?:rolleyes:


  • #47
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    IT-Guy wrote: »
    Care to back up these horrendous realities with some stats? How many women have listed the reasons for their abortion as 'going on hols...lol', 'wrong size, here's my receipt' oh and let's not forget the scenario of 'racist lady has one night stand with a black man and doesn't want a mixed-race baby cos she's racist'. Honestly, you couldn't make this s**t up!

    Straw men argument is clutching at straws. :rolleyes:


  • #48
    Mark Hamill
    Registered Users Posts: 7,771 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    IT-Guy wrote: »
    Care to back up these horrendous realities with some stats? How many women have listed the reasons for their abortion as 'going on hols...lol', 'wrong size, here's my receipt' oh and let's not forget the scenario of 'racist lady has one night stand with a black man and doesn't want a mixed-race baby cos she's racist'. Honestly, you couldn't make this s**t up!

    I bet someone could :pac:


  • #49
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    old hippy wrote: »
    Straw men argument is clutching at straws. :rolleyes:


    Not really.

    BB has used those scenarios as to why a woman might "choose" to have an abortion:eek:


  • #50
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    bumper234 wrote: »
    Ah yes but at least that nice brown woman is now in heaven with the one true god right?:rolleyes:

    Doubt it - she was Hindu but presumably heard about Jesus - hard not to living in Galway- and rejected the idea of him as her saviour so it's Hell for her.


  • #51
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Doubt it - she was Hindu but presumably heard about Jesus - hard not to living in Galway- and rejected the idea of him as her saviour so it's Hell for her.

    Right so i'll see her there :)


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  • #52
    Turtwig
    Registered Users Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    So you think it would be "funny" to see peaceful protestors attacked as well as wishing violence on them for peacefully protesting.
    bumper234 wrote: »
    Again stop ****ing twisting words to fit your own sick agenda. Show me where i said i think it would be funny to see PEACEFUL protesters attacked as well as wishing violence on them for peacefully protesting.

    Please drop this discussion as ye're struggling it keep it civil.
    Thanks,


  • #53
    IT-Guy
    Registered Users Posts: 514 ✭✭✭IT-Guy


    old hippy wrote: »
    Straw men argument is clutching at straws. :rolleyes:

    I'd suggest you read back through BB's posts in the older thread before commenting here, no straw men, all hypothetical situations outlined by BB.


  • #54
    Mark Hamill
    Registered Users Posts: 7,771 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    .

    Your first link is Australia and the second is the Daily Mail, so neither relevant to this discussion about what does happen in Ireland.

    But lets put aside their sources for a moment and ask the more obvious question:
    If, as the DM references says, there is a chance that the NHS could abort a pregnancy and leave the viable foetus to die, then maybe we should ensure that women in Ireland don't have to go abroad for abortions and get better care here in Ireland?


  • #55
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    IT-Guy wrote: »
    I'd suggest you read back through BB's posts in the older thread before commenting here, no straw men, all hypothetical situations outlined by BB.

    Some very outlandish and far fetched hypotheticals, to be sure :D


  • #56
    Mark Hamill
    Registered Users Posts: 7,771 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    bumper234 wrote: »
    Not really.

    BB has used those scenarios as to why a woman might "choose" to have an abortion:eek:
    IT-Guy wrote: »
    I'd suggest you read back through BB's posts in the older thread before commenting here, no straw men, all hypothetical situations outlined by BB.

    I think that old hippy was calling BB's arguments strawmen, not IT-Guy's


  • #57
    Turtwig
    Registered Users Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    .
    <botched abortions>

    Yep, these happen and will probably happen in Ireland too - if they haven't already! Ireland currently doesn't actually keep statistics on abortions. We could always attempt to clarify for the law for what should be the procedure when these things happen but given the political mess of the debate I doubt that's going to happen.

    It's very unfortunate and it's sincerely hoped that the foetus don't suffer but as I said regarding laws, no procedure is perfect. We just hope that the imperfect procedures are kept to an absolute minimum.

    A key point that needs to be noted here is that it stands to reason that a woman with compromised health is more likely to have a botched abortion than a woman in good health. Botched abortions aren't in my opinion anyway a valid reason to deny access of abortion to everyone.

    FWIW, quoting the dailymail as a source isn't really advisable. :)


  • #58
    Zombrex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,848 ✭✭✭✭Zombrex


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    We have the NHS in Ireland now????

    Even if we were the NHS, these reports are criticising this practice.

    Its like if I asked BB where did he get the idea that the government supports beating up old people and he produced a report by the government criticising assaults against old people.

    :rolleyes:


  • #59
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    bumper234 wrote: »
    robindch wrote: »
    I hope and presume that you're referring to "legal consequences" -- anything other than that is considered unhelpful and may well be subject to moderator action.
    Oh of course sir ;)
    If the weather weren't so nice today, you'd have been carded for that reply.


  • #60
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    robindch wrote: »
    If the weather weren't so nice today, you'd have been carded for that reply.

    My apologies won't happen again


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  • #61
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    28064212 wrote: »
    Caesarean or delivery would be my guess. Again, the doctors have the responsibility to do everything they can to save the child. Which has been explained to you multiple times. So instead of asking leading questions and posing hypotheticals that change from post to post, why don't you actually state what you think is going to happen, and what you have a problem with?
    Excuse my ignorance, but what then is the actual difference between the delivery of a 24 week old premature baby and an abortion at 24 weeks in Ireland (to be)?.


This discussion has been closed.
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