M7 - Nenagh to Limerick

Berty · 24-07-2009 11:11am

I passed the Interchange at Nenagh and the tie in is now to the final sub layer. They only have wearing course to lay on the entirety of the tie in and the existing Nenagh bypass.

I cannot comment on the rest of the bypass.

I will say that the builders holidays are definately having an affect on work being completed in a timely manner.

Previously, and from my own experience, the builders holidays are generally worked through by most for extra pay.

I have spoken to friends and people working in the industry who have been told to TAKE the holidays and there is no option of working.

The only people I could see working on the M7 were the UK guys sealing the bridges decks.

Berty · 25-07-2009 2:50pm

I was on the Nenagh bypass today and drove through the cones and parked my car in the middle of the new dual carraigeway.

And took these photos:

Looking northbound

Looking Southbound to where you can see the final sub layer has been laid down.

I headed North and turned after the end of the Nenagh bypass heading North and cut by the next section where they are building another structure. They are basically at the beginning on this structure. They have barely started the first pillars to support the bridge and groundworks are far far behind. The next section of the N7 is going to be a long long way away by the looks of things. I could not stop here because the guy kept waving me on.

Tech3 · 25-07-2009 3:15pm

Berty wrote: »

Looking Southbound to where you can see the final sub layer has been laid down.

I headed North and turned after the end of the Nenagh bypass heading North and cut by the next section where they are building another structure. They are basically at the beginning on this structure. They have barely started the first pillars to support the bridge and groundworks are far far behind. The next section of the N7 is going to be a long long way away by the looks of things. I could not stop here because the guy kept waving me on.

That looks extremely tight for a hard shoulder to go under the bridge in the background. Is the bridge even widened? Thanks for those Berty havnt been down near Nenagh in the last few weeks to see whats going on. I cant wait for this one to finish hopefully in November if all goes well.

I agree with you, the next section of N7 (Nenagh-Castletown) is well behind. It wont make it for completion next year IMO.

Amtmann · 25-07-2009 4:05pm

I was on two autobahns today - the A70 and the A9 - and there were sections on both of these that had NO hard shoulders at all, coupled with steep climbs and sharpish bends. Speed limit: 130 km/h. The Nenagh Bypass will be okay I think.

101sean · 25-07-2009 5:58pm

That's the existing bridge on the link from old road out of Nenagh and no, it's not been altered. As far as I can remember there is a hard shoulder, it's been discussed before.

It's quite common on UK motorways that have been widened for there to be lengths with no hard shoulder or for it to go behind the bridge piers, doesn't seem to cause a problem.

Tech3 · 25-07-2009 9:25pm

101sean wrote: »

That's the existing bridge on the link from old road out of Nenagh and no, it's not been altered. As far as I can remember there is a hard shoulder, it's been discussed before.

I'm sure we were indeed discussing about the width of the bridges on the Nenagh bypass before. There was never a photo or video of this overbridge but Berty provided videos of the others and we were generally happy to think they would be ok for full length hard shoulder. This overbridge hasnt been drawn into debate yet, well there wasnt a picture to reference the argument.
Now judging from this photo there wont be a hard shoulder under this overbridge. Mysterious brought it up before that one of the overbridges looked exteremely tight and he has been proved right.

This is the second thread now where I've come across this discussed before charade. I wont contribute to this thread again if I'm given responses like that.

It's quite common on UK motorways that have been widened for there to be lengths with no hard shoulder or for it to go behind the bridge piers, doesn't seem to cause a problem.

There is a difference between U.K and Irish motorists. A hard shoulder is a requirement on a motorway in case of emergencys. I would find the NRA are cutting corners with tight overbridges like this.

L1011 · 25-07-2009 10:11pm

mysterious wrote: »

A road doesnt drop by 2,000 in one month.

It didn't "drop by 2,000 in one month". If you actually LOOKED at the figures you'd see that its about 2,000 lower in Dec/Jan/Feb than in mid summer for every year which there is data for. You are trying to use its 2008 average figures compared to February 2009 for other roads to justify your "revised figures".

The roads you've bumped it above in your "revised" figures all have significantly higher 2008 average figures than February 2009 figures. ALL ROADS DO. N11 Jack Whites is 20943, about 2,000 higher. N18 Hurlers X is 26996, about 1,500 higher. Notice a pattern here?

But of course, you never let the facts get in the way of a good rant.

murphaph · 25-07-2009 10:41pm

tech2 wrote: »

There is a difference between U.K and Irish motorists. A hard shoulder is a requirement on a motorway in case of emergencys. I would find the NRA are cutting corners with tight overbridges like this.

There are already significant stretches of hard-shoulderless motorway in the Republic of Ireland.

L1011 · 25-07-2009 10:42pm

murphaph wrote: »

There are already significant stretches of hard-shoulderless motorway in the Republic of Ireland.

Where? Under bridges on the upgraded bits of the M50, and the estuary bridge on the M1 are the only places I can think of which are already motorway.

Zoney · 25-07-2009 10:50pm

In any case, I think even with the bridge in the photo on the previous page, there will be hard shoulder under, even if the barrier for the bridge pillars will be right up against a slightly narrower hard shoulder. Last time I passed under it I estimated that it was just about wide enough for almost 6 lanes.

My main concern would be that there is an adequate crash barrier around the pillars.

murphaph · 25-07-2009 10:56pm

MYOB wrote: »

Where? Under bridges on the upgraded bits of the M50, and the estuary bridge on the M1 are the only places I can think of which are already motorway.

the entire Port Tunnel too.

The Estuary Bridge is the best example of 'normal' untolled motorway having no hard shoulder and it's a good long stretch. This little bridge on the M7 is nothing compared to it.

L1011 · 25-07-2009 11:13pm

Never even thought of the DPT, good call.

101sean · 25-07-2009 11:19pm

discussed before charade. I wont contribute to this thread again if I'm given responses like that

Jeez, calm down, I was only pointing out that it had been raised before, not that we shouldn't carry on discussing it! Some very sensitive souls on here

It wasn't in my section so I never looked at it closely but I'm still pretty sure there's hard shoulder through there, happy to be proved wrong

Given the current trend for risk assesment and paranoia (some of it justified with ever increasing truck sizes and weights) I'm fairly confident the designers will have included adequate barriers.

Wild Bill · 26-07-2009 8:27pm

So where are these significant stretches of hard-shoulderless motorway in Ireland? Apart from the tunnel and bridge on the M1/M50 I can't recall any.

spacetweek · 28-07-2009 12:43pm

murphaph wrote: »

There are already significant stretches of hard-shoulderless motorway in the Republic of Ireland.

We don't have any significant stretches of motorway like this. Bit of an overstatement...

The Estuary crossing and DPT are a viaduct and a tunnel. There's a strong precedent in other countries for leaving dead space out in these situations. It would be very expensive to provide the stopping lane here compared to the benefit you'd get from it. In any case the DPT has refuges every so often (can't remember how many) to get around this problem.

Look at the Thousand Islands bridge in New York for an example. Despite being I-81 (an interstate freeway), not only does the bridge have no stopping lanes (check the streetview for proof), but it only has 1 traffic lane each way.

murphaph · 28-07-2009 1:05pm

spacetweek wrote: »

We don't have any significant stretches of motorway like this. Bit of an overstatement...

The Estuary crossing and DPT are a viaduct and a tunnel. There's a strong precedent in other countries for leaving dead space out in these situations. It would be very expensive to provide the stopping lane here compared to the benefit you'd get from it. In any case the DPT has refuges every so often (can't remember how many) to get around this problem.

Look at the Thousand Islands bridge in New York for an example. Despite being I-81 (an interstate freeway), not only does the bridge have no stopping lanes (check the streetview for proof), but it only has 1 traffic lane each way.

My point (which seems to have been incorrectly received) was simply that we already have much longer stretches of hard-shoulderless motorway than this piddly little bridge. Some people seemed to be getting their knickers in a twist over a loss of HS for 100m or so either side of this N7 structure. I just pointed out that such distances are already exceeded without incident.

The swiss have mandated to eliminat hard shoulders completely on many new Autobahnen given the modern car is so reliable. Refuges will be provided instead.

The Word Is Bor · 28-07-2009 1:08pm

The Word Is Bor wrote: »

Word on the grapevine is a late December opening (Nenagh-Limerick). I don't think it will make it though. The works at Drominboy bog look to be still ongoing.

Looks like the grapevine is changing again. Not expected to open until Q1 2010.

mysterious · 28-07-2009 1:39pm

The Word Is Bor wrote: »

Looks like the grapevine is changing again. Not expected to open until Q1 2010.

Who said this?

The Word Is Bor · 28-07-2009 1:48pm

I just did. I'm not going to give away my sources but I'd be fairly confident that it's on the money. December was the completion date at the start of the summer but that has slipped considerably since then.

mysterious · 28-07-2009 2:56pm

The Word Is Bor wrote: »

I just did. I'm not going to give away my sources but I'd be fairly confident that it's on the money. December was the completion date at the start of the summer but that has slipped considerably since then.

Well don't say it as fact.

The completion date is early December. It slipped in summer because of contract problems. That is now resolved.

moose112 · 28-07-2009 3:13pm

murphaph wrote: »

My point (which seems to have been incorrectly received) was simply that we already have much longer stretches of hard-shoulderless motorway than this piddly little bridge. Some people seemed to be getting their knickers in a twist over a loss of HS for 100m or so either side of this N7 structure. I just pointed out that such distances are already exceeded without incident.

The swiss have mandated to eliminat hard shoulders completely on many new Autobahnen given the modern car is so reliable. Refuges will be provided instead.

And what happens when there a major incident and the emergency services can not access the scene

murphaph · 28-07-2009 3:22pm

moose112 wrote: »

And what happens when there a major incident and the emergency services can not access the scene

If people were taught to drive properly (and followed through on it) they's just do as the Swiss (and germans and others) do....

In a traffic jam on ANY 2 lane dual carriageway in Germany (and CH), traffic in the left lane must move left and traffic in the right lane must move right. This is a standard rule of the road and means a path down the middle is always left clear for emergency services.

Good driving can maximise the available infrastructure (similar to ped crossings in Germany etc. having no 'all ped' phase-keeps traffic moving much better but requires good driving and responsible pedestrians).

moose112 · 28-07-2009 3:43pm

I agree.

But in general Irish drivers are to thick and ignorant to do this anyways didn't mean to go off topic

mysterious · 28-07-2009 4:21pm

murphaph wrote: »

If people were taught to drive properly (and followed through on it) they's just do as the Swiss (and germans and others) do....

In a traffic jam on ANY 2 lane dual carriageway in Germany (and CH), traffic in the left lane must move left and traffic in the right lane must move right. This is a standard rule of the road and means a path down the middle is always left clear for emergency services.

Good driving can maximise the available infrastructure (similar to ped crossings in Germany etc. having no 'all ped' phase-keeps traffic moving much better but requires good driving and responsible pedestrians).

But you have to understand people wouldn't be getting in a knicker twists about the lack of HS, tight bridges and lack of foresighted roads

If we actually built our roads right in the first place:p I don't get why you seem to always defend the issue that we always make a cock up on building our roads every time.

murphaph · 28-07-2009 4:37pm

mysterious wrote: »

But you have to understand people wouldn't be getting in a knicker twists about the lack of HS, tight bridges and lack of foresighted roads

If we actually built our roads right in the first place:p I don't get why you seem to always defend the issue that we always make a cock up on building our roads every time.

we don't cock up our new roads every time ffs.

There are outstanding issues such as a couple of poorly designed junctions and in particular signage. To state that all our new roads have been 'cocked up' is more than a little unfair to those involved.

There's a finite budget (something you don't seem to grasp) and other transport priorities exist (particularly rail in and around Dublin). You can't always build the best solution and this goes for every country in Europe.

mysterious · 28-07-2009 4:46pm

murphaph wrote: »

we don't cock up our new roads every time ffs.

There are outstanding issues such as a couple of poorly designed junctions and in particular signage. To state that all our new roads have been 'cocked up' is more than a little unfair to those involved.

There's a finite budget (something you don't seem to grasp) and other transport priorities exist (particularly rail in and around Dublin). You can't always build the best solution and this goes for every country in Europe.

I realise everything

I even realise how expensive it was to upgrade the M50. Maybe you don't see it.Maybe you don't see that a large percentage of busy interchanges that are built now has to be upgraded. look at every single interchange we are building now, mostly rounabouts, dumbells and non collaborative.

Look at all the Roads/interchanges built on the LSRR. Look at Grannagh, Dunkettle, CSRR interchanges, Adare bypass, Nenagh bypass. Narrow bridges on the M7/M8 scheme, Restricted interchanges of The M4-M6-M7.M8-M9, The M50 interchanges and the now incredibly outdated interchange proposed at Newlands cross.

You and many people don't learn at all.

There is nothing unfair about been critical of showing how much money we have wasted in not building our infrastructure right. If we built the frggin things right the first time around, we would have plentiul recourses to concentrate on other roads. Criticsim is needed, so we can learn from our past mistakes.

You miss the big picture every time.

woo I will leave it there.

The Word Is Bor · 28-07-2009 4:57pm

mysterious wrote: »

Well don't say it as fact.

The completion date is early December. It slipped in summer because of contract problems. That is now resolved.

Whoa, whoa, whoa! Where did I say it was a fact? I just said that I would believe my source.

I gave the info about the December opening. The 'contract problems' were late last year/early this year. After those issues were resolved the expected completion date was just before Jeebusmas '09. Other issues have now cropped up that will force this back to Q1 2010.

mysterious · 28-07-2009 5:23pm

The Word Is Bor wrote: »

Whoa, whoa, whoa! Where did I say it was a fact? I just said that I would believe my source.

I gave the info about the December opening. The 'contract problems' were late last year/early this year. After those issues were resolved the expected completion date was just before Jeebusmas '09. Other issues have now cropped up that will force this back to Q1 2010.

Said who?

The Word Is Bor · 28-07-2009 5:26pm

mysterious wrote: »

Said who?

Ahem, please see my previous few posts.

Tech3 · 28-07-2009 5:41pm

The Word Is Bor wrote: »

Looks like the grapevine is changing again. Not expected to open until Q1 2010.

If its 2010 it wont go past January, I've seen significant stretches of the scheme and most of it is ready for the wearing course to be laid. Gantry's are also erected and I would be suprised if it falls into 2010. There is problems still with a section of bog south of Daly's cross which would be the only reason why this would not be finished this year.

M7 - Nenagh to Limerick

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