A Question for those who paid the Household Charge

Victor · 04-04-2012 1:07pm

flutered wrote: »

as a pensioner wwho paid tax at 60%, plus a morgage at 25% you folks have it real handy

How much did you spend buying your house €10,000-20,000?

As I said already, those taxes have been spent.

Penny Dreadful · 04-04-2012 2:37pm

StillWaters wrote: »

It's a bit rich that those who are against the flat rate side of the charge, want a flat exemption for people of pensionable age, regardless of the value of their asset, pension, savings etc.

There will be a tiered system brought in, based on size and location. Old people do not vote FG in the same way they voted FF so there will not be a universal exemption. And frankly if there was to be an exemption for a large group of people, it would be fairer if it was for medical card holders or FIS recipients.
The bubble saw an unprecedented transfer of wealth from the younger generation to the older one. The young family in the burbs is likely to be living in more penury than an oap, because of where the personal debt burden lies.
Times have changed.

Totally disagree with that. Where I work right now, there are quite a few people on the scam with medical cards and other various payments that they get from the State. If they then got away with this tax on top of all of the others I think I'd loose my reason.

gosuckonalemon · 04-04-2012 9:41pm

daltonmd wrote: »

There is so much wrong with this post - it's astonishing.

Well then she obviously deserves it after paying for her property and paying property rates when they were applicable along with huge taxes in income, raising a family - who, by the way, are today toxpayers.

I'd say he does - and I'll say he will and I'd say the goverment will really appreciate his help - because they sure do appreciate all carers, parents of autistic children, people who look after their ageing parents - these people by the way save the state millions becasue if they have to do it they'd screw it up and charge all taxpayers for the privilege

Speachless - really - for a country obsessed with property I'm baffled by this comment.

She paid her way - she worked, reared her kids, paid her taxes, scrimped when Charlie told her too and you have absolutely no right to dictate to this woman how she should see out her days - NONE.

As did the woman in her house when rates where payable in this country.

Yes well I'm sure that the examples set by sitting, paid for TD's will help- won't it?

How many taxpayers have you reared so?

More appropriate to who? You?

Well god bless you - when you're living situation is being dictated to you after a lifetime of working - let us know will you?

Ta.

Yes, she should definitly pay, I agree with you.

tayto lover · 04-04-2012 9:50pm

Victor wrote: »

How much did you spend buying your house €10,000-20,000?

As I said already, those taxes have been spent.

Squandered is the word you were looking for.

OldNotWIse · 05-04-2012 3:49pm

Sionach wrote: »

We don't have parks,libraries,sports facilities,playgrounds and street cleaning in the country. So what are we paying for?

We dont have any of these facilities where I live (we got street lights about 5 years ago it was very exciting :rolleyes:) so should we be exempt?

OldNotWIse · 05-04-2012 3:51pm

StillWaters wrote: »

Come on, there are library sub branches in almost every village, together with mobile library, hedge cutting, rural transport scheme, fire service, heritage and community services, maintenance of roads, youth clubs, community halls etc.

Fire service? Dont you have to pay if you call the fire brigade?

astrofool · 05-04-2012 4:37pm

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Fire service? Dont you have to pay if you call the fire brigade?

Does the fee cover the full cost of the call out?

OldNotWIse · 05-04-2012 4:58pm

astrofool wrote: »

Does the fee cover the full cost of the call out?

I dont know. Do you like to answer a question with a question?

daltonmd · 05-04-2012 8:02pm

Victor wrote: »

You do realise that those taxes have already been spent, don't you?

You want her to pay again so? All taxes are spent - that's not the issue. Wer are here because taxes/stamp duty were mis-spent (not a word but you get the drift).

And again my point was that she raised a family - children, now adults who are paying tax. She lives on a pension, she doesn't sound well off so at least afford her the dignity of seeing out her days in the home that she paid for.

Property tax should be based on a number of things and ability to pay should be one of them. Tax the heck out of the property when she dies - but leave her alone in the meantime.

Pal · 31-05-2012 12:57pm

What happens now to the spongers who didn't pay ?

Zamboni · 31-05-2012 1:19pm

Pal wrote: »

What happens now to the spongers who didn't pay ?

There is a lot of spongers in this country.
People that didn't pay the household charge would be near the bottom of that list in my opinion.

OldNotWIse · 31-05-2012 1:58pm

Pal wrote: »

What happens now to the spongers who didn't pay ?

I think there's a fine of a tenner or something? Not sure...
IMO the "spongers" were exempt from the charge to begin with :rolleyes:

marienbad · 31-05-2012 2:10pm

Of course I paid it. One of the fairest taxes there is , Long overdue.

tayto lover · 31-05-2012 5:40pm

marienbad wrote: »

Of course I paid it. One of the fairest taxes there is , Long overdue.

Please explain how it's fair ? Were you exempt Stamp Duty ?

L1011 · 31-05-2012 6:48pm

tayto lover wrote: »

Please explain how it's fair ? Were you exempt Stamp Duty ?

Stamp Duty is a transaction tax, not a property tax.

tayto lover · 31-05-2012 6:51pm

MYOB wrote: »

Stamp Duty is a transaction tax, not a property tax.

So what do we get for this extra tax then ?

L1011 · 31-05-2012 6:55pm

tayto lover wrote: »

So what do we get for this extra tax then ?

What do you get from any tax?

tayto lover · 31-05-2012 6:57pm

MYOB wrote: »

What do you get from any tax?

I get services for my income tax. Roads repaired for my Car Tax. I get my teeth checked for my P.R.S.I.
So again what do I get for the Household tax ?

L1011 · 31-05-2012 7:02pm

tayto lover wrote: »

I get services for my income tax. Roads repaired for my Car Tax. I get my teeth checked for my P.R.S.I.
So again what do I get for the Household tax ?

Not another 1% on income tax, realistically

tayto lover · 31-05-2012 7:04pm

MYOB wrote: »

Not another 1% on income tax, realistically

So is that what I think then -- nothing ?

L1011 · 31-05-2012 7:06pm

tayto lover wrote: »

So is that what I think then -- nothing ?

The tax has to be raised some way. Would you rather its arbitrarily taken from everyone (through income tax, VAT, etc) or from property owners who, by virtue of owning a property, have shown that they have some form of wealth.

We get apparent "left" parties screaming for "wealth taxes" and as soon as we bring one in, they start crying. Surreal.

Oh, and btw, the amount spent on roads per annum is but a tiny fraction of the amount of motor tax, VRT and fuel taxes brought in. ALL taxes end up going towards the general exchequer in the end.

tayto lover · 31-05-2012 7:11pm

MYOB wrote: »

The tax has to be raised some way. Would you rather its arbitrarily taken from everyone (through income tax, VAT, etc) or from property owners who, by virtue of owning a property, have shown that they have some form of wealth.

We get apparent "left" parties screaming for "wealth taxes" and as soon as we bring one in, they start crying. Surreal.

Oh, and btw, the amount spent on roads per annum is but a tiny fraction of the amount of motor tax, VRT and fuel taxes brought in. ALL taxes end up going towards the general exchequer in the end.

So is it only "property owners" who have to pay ?
I thought it was everyone who had a house. Even those who have huge mortgages which they are struggling to pay. Didn't know it was only the owners.

L1011 · 31-05-2012 7:13pm

tayto lover wrote: »

So is it only "property owners" who have to pay ?
I thought it was everyone who had a house. Even those who have huge mortgages which they are struggling to pay. Didn't know it was only the owners.

I don't see why I should bother to answer should a ridiculously framed statement - seeing as you know full well who is liable and what a property owner is, but anyway.

Someone with a mortgage on a house is the property owner. This concept of "the bank owns the house" is incorrect, the bank holds a charge on the house.

If they're struggling to repay the mortgage, they need to sort that out. They may not have the financial capability to own a property. Just because Ireland has an obsession with owning bricks and mortar doesn't mean that people have to.

tayto lover · 31-05-2012 7:17pm

MYOB wrote: »

I don't see why I should bother to answer should a ridiculously framed statement - seeing as you know full well who is liable and what a property owner is, but anyway.

Someone with a mortgage on a house is the property owner. This concept of "the bank owns the house" is incorrect, the bank holds a charge on the house.

If they're struggling to repay the mortgage, they need to sort that out. They may not have the financial capability to own a property. Just because Ireland has an obsession with owning bricks and mortar doesn't mean that people have to.

I agree. People should just stop trying to pay their ridiculous mortgages and give back the keys. If they then get a council house they won't have to pay any property tax.

L1011 · 31-05-2012 7:20pm

you also don't appear to understand that said people would have to pay the higher general taxation we'd have otherwise. Can you explain how they'd handle that if they can't afford the household charge?

tayto lover · 31-05-2012 7:26pm

MYOB wrote: »

you also don't appear to understand that said people would have to pay the higher general taxation we'd have otherwise. Can you explain how they'd handle that if they can't afford the household charge?

They wouldn't be able to pay that either i'd say. The price of everything seems to be rising, petrol, gas, health insurance, groceries etc. People seem to be getting it hard to feed their families.

marienbad · 31-05-2012 9:04pm

tayto lover wrote: »

Please explain how it's fair ? Were you exempt Stamp Duty ?

No I was not exempt stamp duty, why would you ask that ?

It is fair as long as it is calculated on house value and ability to pay and not simply a poll tax. It is just bringing back household rates which FF under Jack Lynch abolished all those decades ago and crippled Local Government. And by the way started the trend of buying the electorate which has in no small measure contributed to where we are today.

Do you think it is unfair ?

Icepick · 31-05-2012 9:04pm

tayto lover wrote: »

They wouldn't be able to pay that either i'd say. The price of everything seems to be rising, petrol, gas, health insurance, groceries etc. People seem to be getting it hard to feed their families.

Inflation is below 2%.

tayto lover · 31-05-2012 9:08pm

Icepick wrote: »

Inflation is below 2%.

Are you denying that the items I have mentioned are going up in price ?
That 2% figure is a myth imo.

tayto lover · 31-05-2012 9:11pm

marienbad wrote: »

No I was not exempt stamp duty, why would you ask that ?

It is fair as long as it is calculated on house value and ability to pay and not simply a poll tax. It is just bringing back household rates which FF under Jack Lynch abolished all those decades ago and crippled Local Government. And by the way started the trend of buying the electorate which has in no small measure contributed to where we are today.

Do you think it is unfair ?

As Enda Kenny said -

It is morally wrong, unjust and unfair to tax a persons home.

- Enda Kenny on house taxes, 1994

A Question for those who paid the Household Charge

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