Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all,
Vanilla are planning an update to the site on April 24th (next Wednesday). It is a major PHP8 update which is expected to boost performance across the site. The site will be down from 7pm and it is expected to take about an hour to complete. We appreciate your patience during the update.
Thanks all.

Over 1,200 licensed guns stolen in five years

245678

Comments

  • #32
    Rew
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,679 Mod ✭✭✭✭Rew


    Garda stations dont opperate the same as military armouries. If they were able to store firearms in the way your describing they would have when firearms were taken in the 70's, Instead all those firearms went to the army. I will mmake a notable exception to that which is the Park but I think its physical proximity to McKee is a big factor as well.

    During the recent amnisity firearms were just put in rooms or standard document lockers.


  • #33
    budda15c
    Closed Accounts Posts: 329 ✭✭budda15c


    metman wrote: »
    I originally said I was surprised and somewhat concerned that a large number of military grade pistols were now in the hands of joe public. I am not in favour of any pistol being kept in a private citizens home, regardless of calibre, however I do not see an issue with smaller calibre pistols being used for sport shooting, target shooting provided they're stored at a range/police station.

    As regards physical security, the term refers to doors, walls, locks, bolts, i.e physical security measures.

    Are Garda stations equipped? I know that many Garda stations aren't equipped to house serving Gardai, let alone store firearms. However, this doesn't mean that money shouldn't or couldn't be spent. I've worked out of a number of stations that have had armouries.

    To be honest I don't see how they would be any safer stored in ranges or Garda stations. If they are securely stored in a safe, which is concealed in a house out of view and alarmed. They are as safe as they are going to be in either a station or a range.

    If this is the defenition of physical security, then a house provides all of these.

    As you have said yourself, many Garda Stations are not equipped to house serving members, nevermind securely house firearms which belong to citizens. If money is a problem, for providing secure storage for these handguns then is it not better to allow the gun owner incur the cost by equiping their own home under guidelines issued by the Gardai for the secure storage of such a firearm.

    Money is always a huge issue, the government is not providing the Gardai with the necessary money and resources they need at the moment, so why would they spend money turning Garda stations into armouries to store firearms belonging to the public.

    You say you have worked out of a number of stations which have had armouries. I take it you mean London MPS stations, which will already have armouries to hold their own firearms, would this be correct. This is a very different situation to that of Garda Stations throughout Ireland.


  • #34
    budda15c
    Closed Accounts Posts: 329 ✭✭budda15c


    metman wrote: »
    Exactly. Same with police stations. The physical security measures are one thing, but the personnel are another factor!

    But this is very different to the situation in the UK, where there may be a large number of armed officers in a station. In a Garda station, which is not in a large urban area, you may only have a couple of armed officers in a station and they may not all be there at once.

    You would have to maintain a constant armed prescence in a station. Unarmed members may not even be comfortable being in a station which may have a couple of dozen handguns unsecurely stored within. Especially when it is common knowledge that the firearms are being stored there.


  • #35
    metman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,155 ✭✭✭metman


    budda15c wrote: »
    You say you have worked out of a number of stations which have had armouries. I take it you mean London MPS stations, which will already have armouries to hold their own firearms, would this be correct. This is a very different situation to that of Garda Stations throughout Ireland.
    Garda stations dont opperate the same as military armouries. If they were able to store firearms in the way your describing they would have when firearms were taken in the 70's, Instead all those firearms went to the army. I will mmake a notable exception to that which is the Park but I think its physical proximity to McKee is a big factor as well. During the recent amnisity firearms were just put in rooms or standard document lockers.

    Rew/Buddha - Perhaps this is where our viewpoints diverge! The Police stations here that have armouries (be they City, Met, Surrey, Essex Police) are not soft targets and any criminal gang intent on relieving such a station of its weapons would fail, of this I have little doubt.

    I cannot comment on the Garda equivalent as my experience of policing in Eire is nil, though I did spend time in the PDF so am au fait with military practice (albeit of many moons ago).


  • #36
    Rew
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,679 Mod ✭✭✭✭Rew


    metman wrote: »
    Rew/Buddha - Perhaps this is where our viewpoints diverge! The Police stations here that have armouries (be they City, Met, Surrey, Essex Police) are not soft targets and any criminal gang intent on relieving such a station of its weapons would fail, of this I have little doubt.

    Different worlds alright.


  • Advertisement
  • #37
    budda15c
    Closed Accounts Posts: 329 ✭✭budda15c


    metman wrote: »
    Rew/Buddha - Perhaps this is where our viewpoints diverge! The Police stations here that have armouries (be they City, Met, Surrey, Essex Police) are not soft targets and any criminal gang intent on relieving such a station of its weapons would fail, of this I have little doubt.

    I cannot comment on the Garda equivalent as my experience of policing in Eire is nil, though I did spend time in the PDF so am au fait with military practice (albeit of many moons ago).


    Thank you, my point exactly. Garda stations up and down the country simply would not be equipped to store these firearms. And if they are to be stored in a club or range, all in one place, what is to stop some gang from knocking off one of these clubs as there would be a large amount of handguns stored there.

    This is one of the points I have been trying to make, that there is not a feasible or viable alternative to securely storing firearms other than in your home, in this country.

    And you have also agreed earlier that simply banning these handguns will achieve nothing and you said you are not against gun ownership.

    So I think thats pretty much proved the two points I was trying to make.


  • #38
    calvary
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2 ✭calvary


    budda15c wrote: »
    To be honest this argument has been flogged to death all over the place. The entire argument towards banning legally held handguns in an attempt to curb gun crime is b0ll0x. Its a complete cop out in an attempt to fool the public (the majority of whom have no clue about guns) into thinking that something major is been done to combat gun crime.

    Anybody who has been lucky enough to get a licence for a handgun has been deemed responsible enough and fit to own such a firearm by their local superintendant. Also if you have spent a small fortune and spent months and in some cases well over a year to obtain a handgun legally, then your not going to leave it lying around for some scrote to break into your home and take it.

    If your a career criminal why would you bother your arse breaking into a house to steal a gun, when you can just as easily buy one illegally or have gotten a half dozen as a 'sweetener' on a big deal.

    Metman: by 'military grade weapons' I take it you mean a Glock, which seems to be a dirty word at the moment. The people who own legally licenced Glock 17's are not the people that everyone needs to be worrying about, as there not going to be the one's confronting the OC weilding Gardai.. Its the scumbag who got one of the nice new Glock's being smuggled into the country.

    It is, I agree absolutely apauling the amount of innocent people who have been murdered in cold blood with the aid of firearms in recent years. And I doubt anyone will disagree with the fact that the problem needs to be tackled aggressively. BUT penalising the responsible, law abiding gun owners in an attempt to divert attention from the real issue is not the answer.
    Budda 15c seems to have got the idea of wat is really goin on ere!!!Glad sumone else recogniss it!!!


  • #39
    metman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,155 ✭✭✭metman


    budda15c wrote: »
    Thank you, my point exactly.

    Woah there Silver! My experience is not that of an AGS member. However we have many of those on this forum who may see fit to contribute and attest to the state of play of Garda armouries, and if they're fit for purpose as outlined here. Even so, this does nothing to answer the potential for pistol clubs to store weapons.

    TBH even if AGS current situation is not up to scratch, funding to make it so would, in my view, be preferable to home ownership.

    If it makes you feel better, then sure, legislative change won't prevent innocent people getting murdered, robbed, raped at gunpoint.

    Not really a victory for anyone is it?


  • #40
    Rew
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,679 Mod ✭✭✭✭Rew


    metman wrote: »
    TBH even if AGS current situation is not up to scratch, funding to make it so would, in my view, be preferable to home ownership.

    Tiger kidnapping is big here so I would imagine that they would just do that and clear out the club and get hundreds of guns for their efforts. Private armed secuity would be against the law here AFAIK.

    If indvidules have the guns as they do now then an indvidule robbery even with alot of intel on the target is only likely to net one or 2 firearms. Is 2 firearms worth the risk?

    A drugs shipment was nabbed a couple of months ago with 50 firearms including MP5s and supressors to fit the pistols and MP5's. After most shootings here the criminals will burn the guns with the car used in the attack. This would indicate to me that indvidule guns have little value to them.


  • #41
    budda15c
    Closed Accounts Posts: 329 ✭✭budda15c


    metman wrote: »
    Woah there Silver! My experience is not that of an AGS member. However we have many of those on this forum who may see fit to contribute and attest to the state of play of Garda armouries, and if they're fit for purpose as outlined here. Even so, this does nothing to answer the potential for pistol clubs to store weapons.

    TBH even if AGS current situation is not up to scratch, funding to make it so would, in my view, be preferable to home ownership.

    If it makes you feel better, then sure, legislative change won't prevent innocent people getting murdered, robbed, raped at gunpoint.

    Not really a victory for anyone is it?


    Not a victory by any means, I'm not claiming it is..

    But if you read my post again, what I said is there is no viable or feasible alternative to gun storage, other than storing them in the home. Maybe in the future if the facilities are there within a Garda station to store these firearms securely, there will be a case to be made for it, which personally I still wouldn't agree with. But it may be a viable alternative.

    You say if the stations are not up to scratch then spend money & provide the funding. This again is not a viable/feasible solution as the money is not there, simple as.

    Your main point for storing these firearms away from the home, were so as they could not be used during a domestic.. The storage of these firearms in a pistol range or Garda station will not stop them being used in murders and robberies on the street.

    As regards making me feel better about the legislation not changing anything, thanks for the consideration and thought, but we established that quiet a few posts back.


  • Advertisement
  • #42
    budda15c
    Closed Accounts Posts: 329 ✭✭budda15c


    Rew wrote: »
    Tiger kidnapping is big here so I would imagine that they would just do that and clear out the club and get hundreds of guns for their efforts. Private armed secuity would be against the law here AFAIK.

    If indvidules have the guns as they do now then an indvidule robbery even with alot of intel on the target is only likely to net one or 2 firearms. Is 2 firearms worth the risk?

    A drugs shipment was nabbed a couple of months ago with 50 firearms including MP5s and supressors to fit the pistols and MP5's. After most shootings here the criminals will burn the guns with the car used in the attack. This would indicate to me that indvidule guns have little value to them.


    +1

    My point exactly. If they do manage to rob a gun from a home they may get one or two and for the most part its not worth their while. If they are to rob a club, where handguns have to be stored it is a more attractive option, as they are almost guaranteed to get a large quantity.


  • #43
    calvary
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2 ✭calvary


    [quote=

    Your main point for storing these firearms away from the home, were so as they could not be used during a domestic.. The storage of these firearms in a pistol range or Garda station will not stop them being used in murders and robberies on the street.

    I believe dis is vital in the discussion of whether or not fire arms should be stored in the home....Storin of fire arms in garda stations wont make a difference to the amount of deaths caused on the streets!!!There is little or few reports of personal firearms being used in domestics...wat we have to worry bout is the amount of illegal handheld firearms.


  • #44
    Eru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,357 ✭✭✭Eru


    A ban on firearms being held would reduce the amount in criminal hands by 1200. It would also reduce the possibility of someone using a legally held firearm against other people. Before anyone attacks me, I know this is rare but it has and possible will happen again.

    Also, lets not fool ourselves here, its not only international drug cartels that have guns. Plenty of small timers are using firearms to rob post offices, betting shops and even petty newsagent till snatches.


  • #45
    budda15c
    Closed Accounts Posts: 329 ✭✭budda15c


    Karlitosway1978 wrote: »
    A ban on firearms being held would reduce the amount in criminal hands by 1200. It would also reduce the possibility of someone using a legally held firearm against other people. Before anyone attacks me, I know this is rare but it has and possible will happen again.

    Also, lets not fool ourselves here, its not only international drug cartels that have guns. Plenty of small timers are using firearms to rob post offices, betting shops and even petty newsagent till snatches.

    Agreed. but these small time crooks are still able to buy guns which have been illegally smuggled into the country by bigger, more influential criminals.

    Also this 1,200 figure that is being thrown around includes target pistols, cross-bows, starter/blankfire pistols and air rifles. A breakdown of these figures would really be useful, but then again if it was broken down it wouldn't make for such a drastic reaction.

    Also this figure includes firearms stolen/lost from Garda custody. A blanket ban on firearms would not stop these guns from being stolen/lost.

    When you say it would prevent someone using a legally held firearm against someone, if a person really wants to cause harm to another person, they will find an alternative if they do not own a firearm, they can easily obtain a knife, a bat or a car.


  • #46
    Eru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,357 ✭✭✭Eru


    budda15c wrote: »
    Agreed. but these small time crooks are still able to buy guns which have been illegally smuggled into the country by bigger, more influential criminals.

    Also this 1,200 figure that is being thrown around includes target pistols, cross-bows, starter/blankfire pistols and air rifles. A breakdown of these figures would really be useful, but then again if it was broken down it wouldn't make for such a drastic reaction.

    Also this figure includes firearms stolen/lost from Garda custody. A blanket ban on firearms would not stop these guns from being stolen/lost.

    When you say it would prevent someone using a legally held firearm against someone, if a person really wants to cause harm to another person, they will find an alternative if they do not own a firearm, they can easily obtain a knife, a bat or a car.

    A, Do you have any figure to show how many are from Gardai or is this just to try and give an impression that the vast majority are privately owned?

    B, On that basis why not simple let everyone carry guns whenever they please? Sure if they are going to kill someone anyway then they may as well have an easy tool available.

    Besides, I would rather face a baseball bat, car or knife over a firearm anyday.


  • #47
    budda15c
    Closed Accounts Posts: 329 ✭✭budda15c


    Karlitosway1978 wrote: »
    A, Do you have any figure to show how many are from Gardai or is this just to try and give an impression that the vast majority are privately owned?

    B, On that basis why not simple let everyone carry guns whenever they please? Sure if they are going to kill someone anyway then they may as well have an easy tool available.

    Besides, I would rather face a baseball bat, car or knife over a firearm anyday.


    Unfortunately no, just as there are not any figures available as to the amount of stolen firearms used to commit crimes. I'm sure everyone would love to see a breakdown of these figures.

    I'm not saying anyone should be allowed carry a firearm as they please. The point I'm making is banning firearms will neither stop people getting their hands on them, nor would it stop people committing murder or robbery..


  • #48
    JonAnderton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 481 ✭✭JonAnderton


    Being stolen from peoples homes... being stolen from Garda possession... Sure, lets just post them directly to people instead... :D

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1093544/A-gun-grannys-post--rifle-meant-police-HQ-gets-lost-lost-mail.html

    http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Police-Machine-Gun-Lost-In-The-Post-Weapon-Sent-To-Grandma-In-Dorset-By-Mistake/Article/200812215176491?lpos=UK_News_Carousel_Region_4&lid=ARTICLE_15176491_Police_Machine_Gun_Lost_In_The_Post%3A_Weapon_Sent_To_Grandma_In_Dorset_By_Mistake

    With the boards all becoming busy and interesting again, I might have to start making more regular posts...


  • #49
    Rew
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,679 Mod ✭✭✭✭Rew


    Garda figures show 8 handguns were stolen in 2003 but there were no licences issued to private indvidules in 2003 so there's a bit of a question mark as to wher they came from.

    2 handguns were handed in to a station during the gun amnesty last year and turned up a couple of weeks later when the apparment of a known criminal was searched (not for the guns they just happened to find them). The resaon they could come up with was they were accidentally thrown out with the rubish.

    A Sig 9mm was stolen from a garda car on may day a couple of years ago and tuned up again later in a drugs operation.

    A detective left a pistol in the toilets of the four courts and caused a security scare.

    I often see briefcases on the back seats of unmarked cars (with no one in them). These are UZI sub machine guns in the standard issue case.

    I've heard rumours that quite a few pistols have been stolen from detectives houses as they sometimes keep them at home. Thats rumours though.
    Karlitosway1978 wrote: »
    Besides, I would rather face a baseball bat, car or knife over a firearm anyday.

    Thats exactly what your would most likley face or a bottle or a golf club or just a fist. There all potentially leathal and will kill morepeople this year then guns. 2 fella's tried very hard to kill me with a 7up bottle one night in pub, they would have managed it too except for a couple of my friends. The point were trying to make is legal firearms represent a very small threat to the public. For example more people will die this year in car accidents then have been killed by firearms (excluding the toubles) in the last 10. A ban on all firearms will have no effect on crime. Ireland has a massive drug problem despite the fact that they are banned. Alcahol prohibition in the US in the 20's was a complete failure. We have to deal with the root caue of crime and not waste time on PR exercices by politicians.

    The biggest problem ATM is that up untill this year there hs been no requirement to lock up gun in a safe. Most firearms owners do anyway but alot of the older generation don't hence the majority of stoilen firearms are shotguns.

    Also on the subject of prefereces I would prefer to be shot with a handgun ahead of a sawn off shotgun any day and shotguns will never be bnned in the country will a farm still exists.


  • #50
    TheNog
    Registered Users Posts: 4,160 ✭✭✭TheNog


    Rew wrote: »
    Considering the fact that 2 handguns handed in during the amnesty "walked" out of a Garda station and in to a criminals posession Im not sure I would be comfortable with the gun being held in the station either.

    Linky for this?
    budda15c wrote: »
    How much safer do you think handguns would be stored in a pistol club or Garda station.

    I don't believe a pistol club would be a safe place for storage but certainly a Garda Station would be, without doubt.

    Anyone hear a caller to Gerry Ryan about 2-3 weeks ago praising Gardai who turned up to his house minutes after his car was taken? Well the car was recovered shortly afterwards but a week later that same was woken by another burglar who then put a chisel into his mouth just cos they wanted his car again!!! It is for peoples protection and safe storage is why I am suggesting storing handguns in Garda Stations.
    Rew wrote: »
    No what im saying is that your suggestion isn't as perfect as you made it out to be. The security mesures taken in indvidules homes are IMHO better then those that would be taken in a Garda station if firearms were being stored there.

    I'm sorry but if you believe that a monitored house alarm and a safe are all you need then you are very much mistaken. A house alarm can be bypassed by an experienced burglar and to get access to your safe can be done by putting a chisel in your mouth or putting a hammer to one of your kids.
    Rew wrote: »
    During the recent amnisity firearms were just put in rooms or standard document lockers.

    Rooms or lockers? Come on. All weapons we received were placed in our armory and when space ran out, they were put into a store room.
    JonAnderton wrote: »
    Being stolen from peoples homes... being stolen from Garda possession... Sure, lets just post them directly to people instead... :D

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1093544/A-gun-grannys-post--rifle-meant-police-HQ-gets-lost-lost-mail.html

    http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Police-Machine-Gun-Lost-In-The-Post-Weapon-Sent-To-Grandma-In-Dorset-By-Mistake/Article/200812215176491?lpos=UK_News_Carousel_Region_4&lid=ARTICLE_15176491_Police_Machine_Gun_Lost_In_The_Post%3A_Weapon_Sent_To_Grandma_In_Dorset_By_Mistake

    Jesus I would have wet myself with excitement!!! :D

    JonAnderton wrote: »
    With the boards all becoming busy and interesting again, I might have to start making more regular posts...

    *shakes fist and says in a Homer voice* You'd better!!
    Rew wrote: »
    The point were trying to make is legal firearms represent a very small threat to the public.

    That is true but there is nohing wrong with making that small threat even smaller.
    Rew wrote: »
    A ban on all firearms will have no effect on crime.

    you have my vote there.
    Rew wrote: »
    The biggest problem ATM is that up untill this year there hs been no requirement to lock up gun in a safe. Most firearms owners do anyway but alot of the older generation don't hence the majority of stoilen firearms are shotguns.

    I'm nearly sure it was from 2006 that safes were mandatory.


    All I am saying is Yes don't ban handguns but at least make it alot more safer for the owners of handguns. For a criminal to get hold of information that a certain person has a handgun is quite simple really and all it would take is for that person to be followed home. The alarm can be simply by passed by forcing their way into your home some evening (alarm off) and forcing you to hand over the keys of the safe. Can you imagine the trauma you and your family could face?

    What I would like to see is figures for how many of the thefts were actually Aggravated Burglaries.

    I also think that people are putting too much faith into house alarms and especially safes.


  • #51
    Rew
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,679 Mod ✭✭✭✭Rew


    TheNog wrote: »
    Linky for this?

    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/amnesty-gun-falls-into-criminal-hands-123028.html

    Rooms or lockers? Come on. All weapons we received were placed in our armory and when space ran out, they were put into a store room.

    How many Garda staions have armouries? Sure evidence is kept in personal lockers, would it not be better to get evidence lockers ahead of storage for private firearms? Garda stations are not imune to breakins or Tiger style attacks. The difference is that instead of one gun you will get 50 or 100.
    That is true but there is nohing wrong with making that small threat even smaller.

    If we carry that logic through then we should make a list of the bigest threats to life and start at the top. We will have gotten rid of cars, motorbikes, sall sporting equipment, domestic knives, the government (not implementing the cervical cancer vacine) long, long, long before we come to legal firearms.
    I'm nearly sure it was from 2006 that safes were mandatory.

    Here's where the farce of it all shows up. Yes it was 2006 that the legislation was brought in BUT very litlle of it has been enacted. The minister doesn't need any new legislation to restict handguns its all in the 2006 act already, but if he makes new laws it sounds like he's doing more. All the provsions are there to have a very strict licenceing regime.

    The Gardai haven't been updated on the changes. They were still teaching that nothing over a .22 was legal in Templemore up untill recently anyway. The Commissioner seems complealty unaware of his powers under that legislation.
    All I am saying is Yes don't ban handguns but at least make it alot more safer for the owners of handguns. For a criminal to get hold of information that a certain person has a handgun is quite simple really and all it would take is for that person to be followed home. The alarm can be simply by passed by forcing their way into your home some evening (alarm off) and forcing you to hand over the keys of the safe. Can you imagine the trauma you and your family could face?

    It has crossed my mind. Safes with handguns are on 24h zones and the alarm panels generally have duress codes.
    What I would like to see is figures for how many of the thefts were actually Aggravated Burglaries.

    I also think that people are putting too much faith into house alarms and especially safes.

    Reading some of your posts im assuming your a memeber? How many successfull breaksins have you been to where there was an alarm that was on and how many where there was a monitored alarm that was on?

    The safes arn't impenetrable but they will slow anyone trying to force them open right down.

    Handguns are disposable items to criminals so why go to all that effort to steal 1 gun? I know they do it for cars but there is big money involved there and low punishment if caught.


  • Advertisement
  • #52
    eroo
    Registered Users Posts: 4,084 ✭✭✭eroo


    Rew wrote: »


    How many Garda staions have armouries? Sure evidence is kept in personal lockers, would it not be better to get evidence lockers ahead of storage for private firearms? Garda stations are not imune to breakins or Tiger style attacks. The difference is that instead of one gun you will get 50 or 100.
    If you can give us an example of a District HQ being attacked or broken into by criminals trying to steal firearms I would appreciate it. To be fair, I can't imagine an 'Assault on Precinct 13' incident happening in Tralee:pac:!


    If we carry that logic through then we should make a list of the bigest threats to life and start at the top. We will have gotten rid of cars, motorbikes, sall sporting equipment, domestic knives, the government (not implementing the cervical cancer vacine) long, long, long before we come to legal firearms.

    These things are a necessity in modern society. Guns are not imo.

    The Gardai haven't been updated on the changes. They were still teaching that nothing over a .22 was legal in Templemore up untill recently anyway.
    Do you have a link to back that statement up?


    It has crossed my mind. Safes with handguns are on 24h zones and the alarm panels generally have duress codes.
    But as Nog said, what if they get to you or your family? Alarms don't matter much then.


    Handguns are disposable items to criminals so why go to all that effort to steal 1 gun? I know they do it for cars but there is big money involved there and low punishment if caught.To a low level thug, I'd imagine stealing and selling guns would be quite profitable.

    I agree with whoever said there is no reason for anyone to have a gun in their possession all the time. If you use it in self defence, you may get attempted murder/murder/manslaughter so that rules out protection. Other than that I can't see why anyone should have access to a gun in their home. I believe storing them in a Garda Station would be a good idea. Sign in for your weapon when you take it out, and sign in again when you return it.

    For those arguing that cars, domestic knives etc are weapons...no they can be used as weapons but that is not their intended purpose. A firearm is a weapon, that is always used as a weapon. Even if it is an air gun/BB gun, they are still weapons imo.


  • #53
    budda15c
    Closed Accounts Posts: 329 ✭✭budda15c


    eroo wrote: »
    I agree with whoever said there is no reason for anyone to have a gun in their possession all the time. If you use it in self defence, you may get attempted murder/murder/manslaughter so that rules out protection. Other than that I can't see why anyone should have access to a gun in their home. I believe storing them in a Garda Station would be a good idea. Sign in for your weapon when you take it out, and sign in again when you return it.

    For those arguing that cars, domestic knives etc are weapons...no they can be used as weapons but that is not their intended purpose. A firearm is a weapon, that is always used as a weapon. Even if it is an air gun/BB gun, they are still weapons imo.


    I think the point Rew was trying to make regarding firearms being stolen from a Garda station is that if there were a large number of handguns, possibly a few dozen stored there, in one location, then it may may become tempting to a criminal gang to try and rob them.

    I doubt you will find an example of a Garda station being 'attacked', for want of a better word and having a large amount of handguns stolen, as at the moment privately licenced handguns are not stored in Garda stations.

    To be honest, I think saying that every firearm should be stored in a garda station and signed in and out, when needed is a bit OTT. As I understand it and I'm open to correction here the Gardai do not have anything near the resources to do something like this.


  • #54
    ScubaDave
    Registered Users Posts: 404 ✭✭ScubaDave


    No - they are intended as sporting tool by which a person can compete in a precision sport such as target shooting! They are not intended for weapons!


  • #55
    budda15c
    Closed Accounts Posts: 329 ✭✭budda15c


    ScubaDave wrote: »
    No - they are intended as sporting tool by which a person can compete in a precision sport such as target shooting! They are not intended for weapons!

    +1

    something i missed:o


  • #56
    Rew
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,679 Mod ✭✭✭✭Rew


    eroo wrote: »
    I agree with whoever said there is no reason for anyone to have a gun in their possession all the time. If you use it in self defence, you may get attempted murder/murder/manslaughter so that rules out protection. Other than that I can't see why anyone should have access to a gun in their home. I believe storing them in a Garda Station would be a good idea. Sign in for your weapon when you take it out, and sign in again when you return it.

    For those arguing that cars, domestic knives etc are weapons...no they can be used as weapons but that is not their intended purpose. A firearm is a weapon, that is always used as a weapon. Even if it is an air gun/BB gun, they are still weapons imo.

    Templemore dont put their lectures online and im sure the members here will back me up is saying that no HQ directives have been issued about the 2006 changes to licencing. Any recent phase can back me up.

    As I have said already self defence has never been a valid reason to get a licence. Although there was talk from the gov of chaning that a while back but thank god nothing came of it.

    Saying all guns are weapons just shows ignorance of the subject. Firearms are tool like any other as you say they can be used as weapons but that is not their necessarily intended purpose. There are some that are built to be weapons same can be said for cars and knives etc.

    It can be argued that we dont need alot of things in or possession all the time or even at but where is the line drawn? Shooting as sport has been around as long as guns have been. Our gov and every other gov funds it as a sport. Brian Cowen opened the Midlands Shooting range. We have quite a few world class shooters in Ireland.

    As I said earlier most Garda stations can't store evidence let alone 220,000 firearms.

    As we have seen 16 year olds can lay their hands on illeagle firearms, the street value of a pistol is less then the retail.


  • #57
    CLADA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 651 ✭✭✭CLADA


    Rew wrote: »
    Garda figures show 8 handguns were stolen in 2003 but there were no licences issued to private indvidules in 2003 so there's a bit of a question mark as to wher they came from.

    A Sig 9mm was stolen from a garda car on may day a couple of years ago and tuned up again later in a drugs operation.

    This did not happen. And for the record May day was 2004.
    Rew wrote: »
    A detective left a pistol in the toilets of the four courts and caused a security scare.

    It was in Dublin Castle at the flood tribunal in '96, there was no security scare as it was brought to the attention the uniformed garda on duty and recovered almost immediately.

    Rew wrote: »
    I often see briefcases on the back seats of unmarked cars (with no one in them). These are UZI sub machine guns in the standard issue case..

    God bless your eyesight, if its true that you often see these cases, are you telling us you can actually see the contents of the case?
    Are you sure it's not empty?
    Rew wrote: »
    I've heard rumours that quite a few pistols have been stolen from detectives houses as they sometimes keep them at home. Thats rumours though

    Yes, Thats rumours though.


    So now we have established the 8 handguns stolen in 2003 were not Garda weapons.


  • #58
    Rew
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,679 Mod ✭✭✭✭Rew


    CLADA wrote: »
    So now we have established the 8 handguns stolen in 2003 were not Garda weapons.

    LOL we didnt establish alot there. Im surprised the May Day one isnt true. I heard it was recovered after being stuck in the face of a plain clothers banner? I didnt mean to say that the 8 were those incidents just that everyone who has firearms in this state has lost or had them stolen at some stage.

    Anyway all stolen handgun figures are going to come uder the microsope now. If the Minister wants to throw them around we'll see what he's actually talking about.


  • #59
    CLADA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 651 ✭✭✭CLADA


    Rew wrote: »
    LOL we didnt establish alot there. Im surprised the May Day one isnt true. I heard it was recovered after being stuck in the face of a plain clothers banner?

    You stated that the 8 handguns stolen in 2003 weren't licenced to private individuals and there is a bit of a question mark as to where they came from.

    You then went on to list rumours you heard and things you have often seen, giving the impression the 8 weapons were Garda issue.

    The incident you refer to where a weapon was pointed at a female Garda was during a drugs search in Clondalkin. A male fleeing the scene pointed a glock pistol at a female Sgt.


  • #60
    metman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,155 ✭✭✭metman


    CLADA wrote: »
    It was in Dublin Castle at the flood tribunal in '96, there was no security scare as it was brought to the attention the uniformed garda on duty and recovered almost immediately

    It happens from time to time :o:eek:

    "Ok, got my grande skinny cappuccino with chocolate, got my large blueberry muffin, got my radio.....feel like I forgot something.......d'oh!"


  • Advertisement
  • #61
    Rew
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,679 Mod ✭✭✭✭Rew


    CLADA wrote: »
    You then went on to list rumours you heard and things you have often seen, giving the impression the 8 weapons were Garda issue.

    Thats ok that is the impression that I was trying to give. The figures come form Pulse I belive so you should be able to say where those 8 came form.


Advertisement