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Final Fantasy 7....by a non gamer

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,200 ✭✭✭Mindkiller


    I think you'd find that he probably did enjoy it but now he finds himself forced to revise his impressions of the game in light of all the critical acclaim its received. In music circles he might be labelled a hipster. :pac:


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 50,698 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    Mindkiller wrote: »
    FFVII wasn't your first RPG. The point is that you're categorically wrong in saying that FFVII is a breeze for newcomers once they've beaten the scorpion boss.

    In case you forgot, you said: "She should be fine with FFVII. There's so little depth to the game really that it's a good place to start. Also now that she has beaten the first boss she's pretty much finished the hardest part of the game other than the final boss."

    FFVII was actually my first RPG. Also I know what I said and stand by it. She's going to breeze through the game. There might be a bit of a hiccup but I highly doubt she'll be stuck on a boss for ages.
    keane2097 wrote: »
    You know you make everything worse with language like this.

    It also shouldn't need to be pointed out that the majority of people you talk to about the game on this site are of the demographic for which FF7 was a first sojourn into the RPG genre.

    So in terms of how difficult you perceived it to have been etc. you're starting out from a very different frame of reference compared to most people when talking about this particular game.

    I think this is fairly obvious, I think you're well aware of it, and I think you act like you're oblivious to it basically to annoy people as a way of making up for the fact you didn't like the game as much as they do.

    How am I starting out from a very different frame of reference when FFVII was my first RPG as well?

    I'm sorry my comments rile up people but I'm not going to sit around and be boring and talk about how perfect the game is. If comments upset you then I think you should have a think about what is upsetting you. I'm just critiquing the game, one I love but like everything nothing is perfect. I'd rather have an intelligent discussion so don't be surprised if I wind people up when they throw their toys out of the pram instead of calming down and having an intelligent discussion.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,764 ✭✭✭✭keane2097


    Retr0gamer wrote: »
    How am I starting out from a very different frame of reference when FFVII was my first RPG as well?

    Leaving out frame of reference then, you've still seemingly had a very different experience playing the game compared to - as far as I can see - literally everyone else on the thread.

    Yet you insist that your experience is the essential one, that because you found the scorpion thing hard and everyone else a doddle that that's the way it is. You hated the chocobo stuff so it's shit as a fact of reality, regardless of the fact that a lot people seemed to get much less annoyed than you at it.
    Retr0gamer wrote: »
    I'm sorry my comments rile up people but I'm not going to sit around and be boring and talk about how perfect the game is. If comments upset you then I think you should have a think about what is upsetting you. I'm just critiquing the game, one I love but like everything nothing is perfect. I'd rather have an intelligent discussion so don't be surprised if I wind people up when they throw their toys out of the pram instead of calming down and having an intelligent discussion.

    This is very grown up from the guy whose idea of intelligent discussion was fanboys getting their knickers in a twist two posts ago. Look a bit closer to home IMO.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 50,698 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    Let's put it this way, can you honestly say that FFVII was a tough game or wsa it just one where a few minor bosses proved to be a bit of a speed bump on the way to the ending? I can't think of an easier RPG other than maybe FFIX.

    As for the chocobo thing, well if you really enjoyed catching that first chocobo then you have very different definitions to fun that I have.
    keane2097 wrote:
    This is very grown up from the guy whose idea of intelligent discussion was fanboys getting their knickers in a twist two posts ago. Look a bit closer to home IMO.

    Was just hoping some people would look at themselves and see how silly taking it seriously is. Obviously I failed.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,200 ✭✭✭Mindkiller


    Retr0gamer wrote: »

    I'm sorry my comments rile up people but I'm not going to sit around and be boring and talk about how perfect the game is. If comments upset you then I think you should have a think about what is upsetting you. I'm just critiquing the game, one I love but like everything nothing is perfect. I'd rather have an intelligent discussion so don't be surprised if I wind people up when they throw their toys out of the pram instead of calming down and having an intelligent discussion.

    You're misrepresenting everyone's position. That's why people get flustered over your posts. It genuinely seems like you're just trying to bait people rather than have a 'balanced discussion'. You say you're complimenting the game as well but with every compliment you throw in a sly little dig about FFVII being derivative, or the materia system being too shallow. Or the translation is awful. Or the game is insanely easy. Or the villain sucks. Or Tifa and Aeris are good characters but far weaker than other characters in other established RPG series. And so on.

    And it isn't so much that you're not allowed to criticise the games, it's just that in this case your criticism doesn't really stand up to scrutiny. Guardian Scorpion is not the hardest part of the game.

    The game is easy. No doubt about that. And it's far from perfect. But there is most definitely a gradual difficulty curve throughout which you seem to be trying to ignore.

    That's the last I'll post on it. The thread is getting fecked up with all this crap.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,101 ✭✭✭MitchKoobski


    So about Red's other half and her playthrough?


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,400 ✭✭✭RedXIV


    So about Red's other half and her playthrough?

    Sorry about the lack of updates guys, but just to keep you guys interested, we have a quiet weekend coming up, including a few long drives where she'll get her gaming in so expect a good sized update by Monday at the latest.

    Also saw her eying up my Xenoblade Chronicles box yesterday, another possible addition to her "to be played" list :)


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 50,698 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    Mindkiller wrote: »
    You're misrepresenting everyone's position. That's why people get flustered over your posts. It genuinely seems like you're just trying to bait people rather than have a 'balanced discussion'. You say you're complimenting the game as well but with every compliment you throw in a sly little dig about FFVII being derivative, or the materia system being too shallow. Or the translation is awful. Or the game is insanely easy. Or the villain sucks. Or Tifa and Aeris are good characters but far weaker than other characters in other established RPG series. And so on.

    All those things I said and stand by. Am I supposed to pretend that I don't believe those things about the game? Do any of them matter as long as the game is good? I think you misunderstand what a balanced discussion is since the way I see it it's representing both sides of the argument, which I did a couple of posts back in a lengthy post that seems to be ignored. You it takes a bigger person to critique something they love and I have far more respect for those people.
    Mindkiller wrote: »
    And it isn't so much that you're not allowed to criticise the games, it's just that in this case your criticism doesn't really stand up to scrutiny. Guardian Scorpion is not the hardest part of the game.

    So far RedXIV's missus is what I'd call breezing through it. I believe it will continue. I expect there'll be a death of course but I doubt she will reach a bit that is so frustrating she'll leave the game for days.
    Mindkiller wrote: »
    The game is easy. No doubt about that. And it's far from perfect. But there is most definitely a gradual difficulty curve throughout which you seem to be trying to ignore.

    I really don't get what peoples problems with the game being easy is. Panzer Dragoon Saga which is one of my favourite games ever and in my opinion far better than FFVII is the easiest RPG I've ever played. There's nothing wrong with it. Also look back at the posts. I'm not the one that keeps bring this crap up and won't let it go. The game has problems, so what. It's still an exceptional game.

    Seems people are mostly describing difficulty spikes than a well judged difficulty curve. It's easy with a few bosses being a hiccup along the way. Not unusual for an RPG. I've not played an RPG without difficulty spikes and SMT games are notorious for the 'baptism of fire boss' that they all have.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,750 ✭✭✭ghostchant


    SMT games tend to have a number of them per game in my experience so far :)

    I think the fact that FFVII provokes such strong reactions is testament to the quality of the game. And I don't think there's anything wrong with tearing it to pieces, but can understand how people get riled up when someone does. For instance I'm currently in love with SMT: Devil Survivor. I'll mutter to myself about how it's a pain-in-the-ass grindfest with almost unfair boss fights, but if someone else said that to me I'd want to fight them :)


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 36,787 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    My 2 cents for what it's worth.

    FFVII was my second RPG after FFX (X-2 doesn't count). I never felt it was that hard at all. I don't think I died once but there were a few close shaves (Demon Wall, Dyne, etc). Dyne actually killed me on the second playthrough funnily enough. It's not hard at all but on the other hand, I watched a video of a boss battle from LoD and it looks so repetitive by comparison. FFVII definitely has bosses that aren't pushovers but I definitely would not say it was hard. I thought X was a good bit harder (Evrae, Cave Guardian, Seymour, etc).

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,992 ✭✭✭✭noodler


    I'd definitely have found FF7 alot easier if I had had previous RPG experience.

    Goes without saying, fire/ice, water/lightning, etc etc.

    Anyway, lets not lose sight of the point of the topic - being jealous over another person because they get to play it through fresh!


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 50,698 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    I watched a video of a boss battle from LoD and it looks so repetitive by comparison. FFVII definitely has bosses that aren't pushovers but I definitely would not say it was hard. I thought X was a good bit harder (Evrae, Cave Guardian, Seymour, etc).

    Seriously?? Legend of Dragoon? Lets try and keep some sanity in the discussion!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,200 ✭✭✭Mindkiller


    Retr0gamer wrote: »
    Seems people are mostly describing difficulty spikes than a well judged difficulty curve. It's easy with a few bosses being a hiccup along the way. Not unusual for an RPG. I've not played an RPG without difficulty spikes and SMT games are notorious for the 'baptism of fire boss' that they all have.

    This is what I probably should have said. Difficulty spikes, not curves. TBH in hindsight I can't think of many JRPGs that maintain a consistent curve like that other than Dragon Quest VIII maybe. Though for what it's worth, I didn't find much of the bosses in SMT:Nocturne that difficult baring maybe the Matador or those three sisters in the tower. It's been years since I've played it though. I wouldn't consider my experience of the game indicative of much, think I might have been really over-levelled from the optional dungeon. I might look for the disc again and give hard mode a go.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 50,698 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    Dhoulmagus gave me an awful time in DQVIII, had to do some grinding there.

    As for Nocturne I think everyone has trouble with Matador. I find the main series SMT games get easier once you get over the tough start. I know SMT on the SNES became easier as it went on, by the end I was using auto battle for all the final bosses.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 36,787 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Retr0gamer wrote: »
    Seriously?? Legend of Dragoon? Lets try and keep some sanity in the discussion!

    I only watched it to decide whether or not to get it off PSN. It was just button mashing and characters shouting the names of the moves they just did.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,200 ✭✭✭Mindkiller


    I did that as well actually. Found it really corny that they wait until after the attack is finished to roar their attack. Kind of redundant at that stage.

    I have a hazy recollection of the game through a demo I got in some Irish playstation magazine. They gave it a 5 in the next issue if I recall


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 50,698 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    I only watched it to decide whether or not to get it off PSN. It was just button mashing and characters shouting the names of the moves they just did.

    Come on... I mean how much more warning can some one give? :)


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 36,787 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    I think I had the same demo, it ended up with a fairly tough snake boss.

    Took me ages to get the timing right for some of those moves.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 50,698 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    Took me ages to get the timing right for some of those moves.

    It's not about timing, the timing is really lenient. The problem is the framerate which is so low that there's horrendous input lag. You have to input the command well before the icon indicates to do so otherwise the game will think the command is too late. Took me a while to get used to it. Just one of a myriad of problems with that game.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 36,787 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    I was always quite enraged at that. I was so sure my timing was fine.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,400 ✭✭✭RedXIV


    Yeah as much as I'd enjoy seeing Retr0's reaction to putting LoD in front of her next, She'd actually lose the plot with that timing issue. I can live it with but she needs a much higher bar of quality to keep her in the gaming scene :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,992 ✭✭✭✭noodler


    Retr0gamer wrote: »
    Dhoulmagus gave me an awful time in DQVIII, had to do some grinding there.

    As for Nocturne I think everyone has trouble with Matador. I find the main series SMT games get easier once you get over the tough start. I know SMT on the SNES became easier as it went on, by the end I was using auto battle for all the final bosses.

    Yeah, the first Dhoulmagus fight took me hours of attempts.


  • Site Banned Posts: 1,678 ✭✭✭Andy!!


    You still trollin are ya Retro.

    Your posts are WAY OT. This thread is not about FFVII in general. It is about one person's particular experience with it. So stop inflating this thread with your BS please.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 50,698 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    Andy!! wrote: »
    You still trollin are ya Retro.

    Your posts are WAY OT. This thread is not about FFVII in general. It is about one person's particular experience with it. So stop inflating this thread with your BS please.

    Give it a break and get back under your bridge.


  • Site Banned Posts: 1,678 ✭✭✭Andy!!


    Retr0gamer wrote: »

    Give it a break and get back under your bridge.

    The definition of irony, ladies and gentlemen!

    Hey OP; ever considered getting her onto Parasite Eve next? Kinda an RPG, nice action, maybe she would be interested that the lead is a chick, dunno, don't want to sound like an idiot male here hah.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,548 ✭✭✭Draupnir


    Can this thread not be left to the topic at hand?

    There must be 80% or more off topic posts in it and half of those by the moderator. Absolute nonsense. I only want to read about the thread topic, I don't care how great you people are at RPGs.


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,992 ✭✭✭✭noodler


    Draupnir wrote: »

    There must be 80% or more off topic posts in it and half of those by the moderator. Absolute nonsense.


    What difference does it make who is dragging it off-thread?


  • Site Banned Posts: 1,678 ✭✭✭Andy!!


    noodler wrote: »
    Draupnir wrote: »

    There must be 80% or more off topic posts in it and half of those by the moderator. Absolute nonsense.


    What difference does it make who is dragging it off-thread?

    Mods should show some responsibility. They represent the website.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 50,698 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    Andy!! wrote: »
    The definition of irony, ladies and gentlemen!

    Hey OP; ever considered getting her onto Parasite Eve next? Kinda an RPG, nice action, maybe she would be interested that the lead is a chick, dunno, don't want to sound like an idiot male here hah.
    Draupnir wrote: »
    Can this thread not be left to the topic at hand?

    There must be 80% or more off topic posts in it and half of those by the moderator. Absolute nonsense. I only want to read about the thread topic, I don't care how great you people are at RPGs.

    How about stop posting like this so the thread can actually remain on topic. As far as I can see it the thread remains on topic until a post like this comes up to take it off topic. Off topic posting is covered in the charter, if the posts go off topic as long as the discussion remains civil it's fine. This thread doesn't seem to have a problem going back on topic anyway.
    Andy!! wrote: »
    Mods should show some responsibility. They represent the website.

    Backseat modding is covered in the charter, anymore of this and you'll be taking a break from the forum. These posts add nothing to the discussion. That goes for everyone.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,992 ✭✭✭✭noodler


    Andy!! wrote: »
    Mods should show some responsibility. They represent the website.

    How many posts have you made in this thread calling said moderator a troll for his opinions? I see at least three.

    Without offering any of your own I might add?


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