niall mellon charity?whats the big deal

walshb · 11-12-2008 2:12pm

Dave, let it go. I don't need to concede to anything. The evidence is there and you will try to defend the indefensible. You need to concede, not me; and if me not agreeing with
you gets you so irritated, then that says more about you than me.

I tried to debate in a civil and polite manner; you got all flustered and resorted to
'bull****; this and 'crap' that.
Really sound argument techniques:rolleyes:

You take the chaps word for it and yet you again
try to dismiss it?

So all the crap we are being told about HOW the folks NEED
the charity is now dismissed? Wow, talk about gullible!

Villain · 11-12-2008 2:15pm

Rooms are rented out by families for an income, stories of whole houses been rented while families remain in a shack have not been proven or found.

TBH my biggest problem with the charity is health and safety, I don't know about this year but last year the site was crazy dangerous, loads and I mean hundreds of people working on a mad busy building site with no expierence of a building site what so ever!

Dave! · 11-12-2008 2:19pm

walshb wrote: »

Dave, let it go. I don't need to concede to anything. The evidence is there and you will try to defend the indefensible. You need to concede, not me; and if me not agreeing with
you gets you so irritated, then that says more about you than me.

I tried to debate in a civil and polite manner; you got all flustered and resorted to
'bull****; this and 'crap' that.
Really sound argument techniques:rolleyes:

You take the chaps word for it and yet you again
try to dismiss it?

So all the crap we are being told about HOW the folks NEED
the charity is now dismissed? Wow, talk about gullible!

Alright mate, yeah you win

All the best

Villain wrote: »

TBH my biggest problem with the charity is health and safety, I don't know about this year but last year the site was crazy dangerous, loads and I mean hundreds of people working on a mad busy building site with no expierence of a building site what so ever!

Fair point really

walshb · 11-12-2008 2:19pm

Villain wrote: »

Rooms are rented out by families for an income, stories of whole houses been rented while families remain in a shack have not been proven or found.

TBH my biggest problem with the charity is health and safety, I don't know about this year but last year the site was crazy dangerous, loads and I mean hundreds of people working on a mad busy building site with no expierence of a building site what so ever!

For income?

So why not say this when the building began. They made out that these
people were destitute and in dire need of shelter. I didn't think that
they simply wanted the houses for INCOME??

Seriously, this is hilarious. Are we that gullible?

Jeez, I'd love if Mellon built me a house for free so I could RENT it!
No wonder they are being asked back every bloody year; oh but folks
seem to think all is perfect and above board:rolleyes:

LaMer · 11-12-2008 2:37pm

Rooms are rented out by families for an income, stories of whole houses been rented while families remain in a shack have not been proven or found.

Jesus Villian I must've been on drugs when I was told by a guy THAT HE WAS RENTING HIS HOUSE OUT TO LIVE IN A SHACK, because I could've sworn that's what he said. Not to mention the community care woman I talked to in Imizamu Yethu. Niall Mellon aswell must've been on some strong stuff himself when he said people did it aswell. Crazy!

EDIT: People are resourceful, I think it's a good way of making money, but I see it as contra to NMTT goal tnh, a family living in each room of a house, the houses are very small, very unsanitary, and even worse than a shack I would imagine.

Wile E. Coyote · 11-12-2008 2:53pm

Where were all the Celebrities and the RTE coverage when this was happening?

Man freezes to death on streets of Wicklow

Tragedy struck on the streets of Wicklow as a man sleeping rough appeared to succumb to freezing weather conditions and was found dead early Thursday morning.

The 61-year-old was discovered slumped in the doorway of a pharmacy on Abbey Street where it appeared he had been sleeping overnight.

A passing garda patrol became concerned after spotting the motionless man at 8.30 a.m. on Thursday morning. They approached him to see what his condition was and immediately contacted an ambulance and a doctor. He was pronounced dead at the scene at 8.50 a.m..

Post-mortem results still haven’t been released and as of yet it’s unknown if the recent cold snap had anything to do with his death. Gardaí have however rule out anything suspicious and it appears he died of natural causes.

While the man may have been sleeping rough in Wicklow Town, the gardaí were able to track down a Blessington address where he had previously resided.

It’s also understood that he had only recently arrived in Wicklow and had been advised to seek some sort of shelter from social services. However, it appears he hadn’t managed to make contact with anyone before his untimely passing.

Source: http://www.wicklowpeople.ie/news/man-freezes-to-death-on-streets-of-wicklow-1570225.html

Spider_Baby · 11-12-2008 2:55pm

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

There are PLENTY of worthy causes here at home but of course those are not 'sexy' and don't involve airmiles and paparazzi .

Nobody,well very few in that liggerite class do anything for nothing,quid pro quo is the mantra there.

mark my words.

Could it be because Ireland is a nation full of begrudgers, as proven throughout this thread???

Yes there are charities at home aswell as abroad.
Does this mean all the students who recently did the 24 hour fast for Concern are wrong for doing so? Should all schools stop collecting for Trocaire and Concern, and collect for their local charities instead???

And what about the tsunami? Should we all have kept our money and put it towards Irish charity work...?
I think not.

IvyTheTerrible · 11-12-2008 3:00pm

Personally, I think it is a good idea to volunteer fullstop. There are too many people whinging about how bad things are but sit on their hands.
Some peoples skills are better for volunteering here, others for volunteering abroad.

walshb · 11-12-2008 3:04pm

Spider_Baby wrote: »

Could it be because Ireland is a nation full of begrudgers, as proven throughout this thread???

Yes there are charities at home aswell as abroad.
Does this mean all the students who recently did the 24 hour fast for Concern are wrong for doing so? Should all schools stop collecting for Trocaire and Concern, and collect for their local charities instead???

And what about the tsunami? Should we all have kept our money and put it towards Irish charity work...?
I think not.

The Tsunami? Now, there was a damn windfall if ever I saw one. So so many funds
went on the HOP for that. Charities love poverty and love disasters. It's their business

FlutterinBantam · 11-12-2008 6:39pm

Kenny and his team got a good trip to Sri Lanka out of it.

Valerie Cox was with them.

Wonder did they fly econ or business??

Quickfire · 11-12-2008 8:12pm

Tbh the people that receive one of those houses are as poor as anyone on the continent.

dfx- · 11-12-2008 8:41pm

LaMer wrote: »

You're full of it, I've seen it first hand and the houses get rented out, the family go back to living in a shack.

That is what happens. You can also see the houses that the Government build poorly with cracks visible and the houses lopsided as the foundations give way. Built too quickly, too rashly..

You can also see from the motorways in Cape Town in particular that behind the first two rows of shacks, there are people living in houses with satellite television, free electricity and extremely cheap, if dangerous taxis to bring them into work. I've walked around Soweto and Langa, have seen the houses they've built themselves and bought themselves with money they've earned, walked down their bustling main streets and it is not the image of depressing, depraved poverty that people make out.

If you visit SA, every town has these shacks and houses. That significant amount are happy how they are..can we not just leave them be happy?

Tipsy7 · 11-12-2008 8:56pm

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

And of course you will always get so called 'celebrities' willing to turn a blind eye to reality and jump on the self promotional bandwagon and the backwash of media exposure to promote their freeloading and vacuous lifestyle.

There are PLENTY of worthy causes here at home but of course those are not 'sexy' and don't involve airmiles and paparazzi .

Nobody,well very few in that liggerite class do anything for nothing,quid pro quo is the mantra there.

mark my words.

Wot have minor irish celebrites done to you? Did they steal ure lunch money, pull ure hair in the playground????

Nehaxak · 11-12-2008 9:23pm

Tipsy7 wrote: »

Wot have minor irish celebrites done to you? Did they steal ure lunch money, pull ure hair in the playground????

Upset my stomach

Tha Gopher · 11-12-2008 9:26pm

SA is a country of high unemployment.

Now, while the intention is good, surely it would be more beneficial to just pay local SA builders to build the homes. Creates employment and has the same end housing result.

No?

Dodgykeeper · 12-12-2008 1:47am

Tha Gopher wrote: »

SA is a country of high unemployment.

Now, while the intention is good, surely it would be more beneficial to just pay local SA builders to build the homes. Creates employment and has the same end housing result.

No?

The SA builders are too busy building these:

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c128/dysan1/2010collage.jpg

FlutterinBantam · 12-12-2008 10:08am

Tipsy7 wrote: »

Wot have minor irish celebrites done to you? Did they steal ure lunch money, pull ure hair in the playground????

Answer= none of the above. If I interpret your unusual prose style correctly.

What they won't do I can reveal to you,is waste my charitable contributions sunning themselves and throwing shapes for the media in far flung destinations while they attempt to portray themselves as concerned caring citizens.

That ,my friend, don't cut no tobacco for the Flutt.

walshb · 12-12-2008 10:17am

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Answer= none of the above. If I interpret your unusual prose style correctly.

What they won't do I can reveal to you,is waste my charitable contributions sunning themselves and throwing shapes for the media in far flung destinations while they attempt to portray themselves as concerned caring citizens.

That ,my friend, don't cut no tobacco for the Flutt.

I assume you donate then to these charitable causes?

If so, that's your business; but don't you think
that donating is further prolonging and fueling the
fiasco.

As dodgy showed with his image in the post above yours
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c128/dysan1/2010collage.jpg

We contributing allows this so called 'neglect' to continue?
The neglect is only there because maybe, just maybe, the SA
government know the Irish will do all the 'dirty' work for them!

FlutterinBantam · 12-12-2008 10:24am

Your inference sir is both perplexing and totally incorrect.

Tim Robbins · 12-12-2008 10:32am

Duiske wrote: »

So it sickens your balls that your not getting paid and getting attention ? As far as I know, Niall Mellon is removing his name from that Trust, because he wants the focus on the charity, and not on himself.
And by the way, its ordinary, everyday brickies, carpenters, plumbers and labourers who raise the money themselves to go there every year, and build proper homes for people who are living in, basically, sheds. Pretty laudible if you ask me.

The cost is 5k for an Irish person to go over and do a week's work. They raise this money themselves. The minimum wage in South Africa is 40 cent an hour. Which is what many people get if they are lucky.

To pay a local for a week's work could be as cheap as 40 cent * 40 = 16 euro.

If you pay them 100 euro for the week that's six times minimum wage.

So imo it's awful inefficient charity. It would make much more sense to not have Irish people going over. And use the money to pay the locals.

But unfortunately some people want their feel good factor and this means they have to do it, even if it's much more expensive for them to do it.

You'd want to be really stupid or racist to think that a white person has to fly over to do something a black person can't do and for this reason paying a much higher price is justified.

FlutterinBantam · 12-12-2008 10:45am

Paying the locals 100 a week would NOT be a good idea if the min wage is 40c per hour.

cause all sorts of inflationary and jealousy problems and throw the local order of things out of kilter.

Employ loads of local labour at a fair wage, send out project people if you have to, but spare us the freeloaders and liggers who are out for the media exposure.

Whole thing is fuelled by PR

walshb · 12-12-2008 10:51am

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Your inference sir is both perplexing and totally incorrect.

Relax, it was a simple question, that's all:rolleyes:
Nothing to infer about it whatsoever

I just wanted to know if you actually donated and maybe your reasons.
Hey, if it's none of my business, OK, just say so!

I never said YOU DID donate. I just asked if you DID?

Tim Robbins · 12-12-2008 10:53am

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Paying the locals 100 a week would NOT be a good idea if the min wage is 40c per hour.

cause all sorts of inflationary and jealousy problems and throw the local order of things out of kilter.

Employ loads of local labour at a fair wage, send out project people if you have to, but spare us the freeloaders and liggers who are out for the media exposure.

Whole thing is fuelled by PR

Exactly. My point was the wasting of money because white people feel they have to "be there" to build it. You could pay locals minimum wage, fair or high wage and have a massive building project for the same amount of money.

But people will raise more money if they get a holiday and an "experience". That's too the detriment of actually doing more for thsoe who do it.

It's yet another abuse of charity that people can't seem to twig.

Dave! · 12-12-2008 11:01am

They employ 2,000 South Africans year round (dunno at what wage).

The Irish only come over for a week to have a 'blitz' and quickly get a few hundred houses built.

There probably wouldn't be any need for them to go over if there wasn't a skills shortage in the building sector.

Tim Robbins · 12-12-2008 11:13am

Dave! wrote: »

There probably wouldn't be any need for them to go over if there wasn't a skills shortage in the building sector.

If they go with a skill, that's not more expensive at local prices - that's fine. But I find it hard to believe, considering the cost of flight etc. But, anyway how many go over with a skill?

The documentary I saw looked like people who had no skill, just wanted the feel good factor.

FlutterinBantam · 12-12-2008 11:15am

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Exactly. My point was the wasting of money because white people feel they have to "be there" to build it. You could pay locals minimum wage, fair or high wage and have a massive building project for the same amount of money.

But people will raise more money if they get a holiday and an "experience". That's too the detriment of actually doing more for thsoe who do it.

It's yet another abuse of charity that some people can't seem to twig.

Fixed that for ya;)

edanto · 12-12-2008 11:21am

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

they attempt to portray themselves as concerned caring citizens.

So, let me get this right. It's OK for people to care about issues, social justice and equality as long as they don't try to get in the newspapers and...

(i) seek the approval and submit to the individual priorities of every taxpayer, particularly your wordy self and mr walshb

(ii) concern themselves only with problems in Ireland until we move ourselves from position 5 on the Human Development Index ranking to a position agreeable to your goodselves (potentially 1 or higher) and only at that stage begin to work overseas

(iii) not help any countries with resource bases larger than ours, even if they have been subject over the centuries to slavery, colonialism, WB/IMF economic torture etc because on paper everyone in the country could be wealthy

So imo it's awful inefficient charity. It would make much more sense to not have Irish people going over. And use the money to pay the locals.

Pity that you've ignored something very important in the system.

http://www.irishtownship.com/docs/Acc001.pdf

From their accounts - they transferred about 75% plus of the fundraised moneys to SA, presumably to pay for people and materials there, just like you are suggesting.

The thing that you have ignored is that the volunteers are far more motivated to fundraise than they would be if they weren't travelling there themselves.

{EDIT: I see you haven't ignored it - from your post just above. But you still seems to think that it's an abuse of charity?! wtf?}

The building happens years round, employing SA people with the money collected in Ireland.

But unfortunately some people want their feel good factor

What in the world do you mean by that?! Are you saying that it's bad to enjoy the feeling of helping someone else?

Have you been completely conditioned by the massmedia to feel that the only way we should get our feelgoods is by buying things in shops that we don't need? I doubt you have been, but could you please clarify what you mean by your disparaging remark about people that want to feel good by doing charitable work. Cos frankly I'm a bit insulted by it, in case you couldn't tell.

FlutterinBantam · 12-12-2008 11:25am

walshb wrote: »

Relax, it was a simple question, that's all:rolleyes:
Nothing to infer about it whatsoever

I just wanted to know if you actually donated and maybe your reasons.
Hey, if it's none of my business, OK, just say so!

I never said YOU DID donate. I just asked if you DID?

You may have mistake inference for accusation.

No anger in my response,sorry if it came across that way.

Not intended to be in anyway sharp, sorry again.

FlutterinBantam · 12-12-2008 11:33am

edanto wrote: »

So, let me get this right. It's OK for people to care about issues, social justice and equality as long as they don't try to get in the newspapers and...

(i) seek the approval and submit to the individual priorities of every taxpayer, particularly your wordy self and mr walshb

No ,it's not ok for people to 'care' about issues just so they can get in the newspapers.;)

walshb · 12-12-2008 12:17pm

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

You may have mistake inference for accusation.

No anger in my response,sorry if it came across that way.

Not intended to be in anyway sharp, sorry again.

No problem mate, glad we cleared it up. I was simply interested!

niall mellon charity?whats the big deal

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