Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2011-2012

deisebhoy17 · 04-10-2012 6:29pm

Mountainlad wrote: »

So, he wouldn't make it into the Galway full forward line ahead of James Regan (to name but one)? Or the Limerick forward line (which is good, but they don't have 6 quality forwards). I'd have him in the Tipp team ahead of Brian O'Meara and Pa Bourke (if I had another free taker). He'd walk onto the Cork team.

The only team I could see him not making would be the Kilkenny team.

Hold your horses there a little. Hes an important player for Waterford and has been particularly the last couple years since the old guard have retired. But some days he is average at best and theres no denying that. For me he dosent actually score enough to be considered a top quality forward. I think he wouldnt be on a lot of other county teams for that reason. Hed definetly have been given a chance at some stage by most counties but wouldnt be consistent enough. Dont get me wrong, glad to have him for us does a great job

deisefolife · 04-10-2012 6:50pm

mccarthy37 wrote: »

A Limerick v Clare Munster Final next year is not beyond these two improving sides. It would make for a very exciting match.
I think that we may struggle for the next few years as some serious rebuilding is required but who knows sure we will have club championship coming up soon, our two counties might clash again look what happened last year.

i was only having this discussing with a few friends the other week,

it would be a good bet to do as well. if they were on opposite sides of the the draw

also Mullane for captain 2013

Black Suir · 04-10-2012 7:39pm

hardybuck wrote: »

Agreed that people often get carried away with Waterford, but also I argue that the Western folk are every bit as bad. There have been more than a few Western names bandied about in this thread as the potential players of the future - many of them who will never produce.

I think it is very unfair to the likes of O'Neill, Dillon and Madigan in particular to be compared to Quirke and Moloney.

Moloney was an exceptional talent but had a terrible attitude and walked away - good luck to him. We'll never know how good or bad he might have become. Not only was he in the county minor team at 15, I remember him as being probably their best player.

Quirke was never going to be a top senior player. While Quirke and Moloney were similarly built, Moloney was tough and brave, Quirke wasn't brave and injury prone. While his free taking was absolutely top class, he offered no threat from play at all.

Most of the city players mentioned have excelled at minor and U21 county level, and stood out on very strong club sides. Naturally they should be talked about as senior prospects.

I did not mention any names from the west and did not mention any other names from the city other than Maloney and Quirke. The names you mentioned are good players, but so too are the likes of Jamie Barron, the Prendergasts, Gavin Crotty, Darren Duggan, Kenny Moore etc.

KevIRL · 04-10-2012 7:51pm

Tough draw in Munster lads

v Clare in QF, winners play Cork

solarith · 04-10-2012 7:52pm

Mountainlad wrote: »

So, he wouldn't make it into the Galway full forward line ahead of James Regan (to name but one)? Or the Limerick forward line (which is good, but they don't have 6 quality forwards). I'd have him in the Tipp team ahead of Brian O'Meara and Pa Bourke (if I had another free taker). He'd walk onto the Cork team.

The only team I could see him not making would be the Kilkenny team.

He doesn't score consistently. He's too slow. He can only play in one position. He's hot and cold.

Fireball07 · 04-10-2012 8:33pm

Mountainlad wrote: »

So, he wouldn't make it into the Galway full forward line ahead of James Regan (to name but one)? Or the Limerick forward line (which is good, but they don't have 6 quality forwards). I'd have him in the Tipp team ahead of Brian O'Meara and Pa Bourke (if I had another free taker). He'd walk onto the Cork team.

The only team I could see him not making would be the Kilkenny team.

I rate Walsh. Decent ball-winner, well able to take a score. I'd probably take him for Limerick alright. (the only Waterford forward I'd take bar Mullane tbqh).

I think he's one of Waterford's most consistent performers and I seem to remember the game against Cork turning after he went off.

zol 2 · 04-10-2012 9:01pm

deisebhoy17 wrote: »

I was at the querter final against DLS a couple weeks ago. I thought John Prendergast hurled very well not so much Paudie. But who else would you consider worth a try out for the seniors?
You mention Stephen Bennett I think some previous posts above about over-hyping players in this county have been echoed. Bennett is minor again next year and doing his leaving cert. I hope its a case you didnt realise that, otherwise its a ludicrous suggestion!!!!

Well if you were at this game i'm amazed to 2 barry's didn't deserve a mention in your opinion of the game? Ray Barry got 1-8 i think and Seanie Barry was outstanding in goal(as he has been all year at senior and underage level).As for Bennett i'm well aware of his age i just think POTENTIALLY he can be top class and if Gavin O Brien is adjudged to be a senior player at 18-where he acquitted himself very well,then surely introducing this guy sensibly to the set up would do no harm.Is this ludicrous??????????

Cake Man · 04-10-2012 9:24pm

KevIRL wrote: »

Tough draw in Munster lads

v Clare in QF, winners play Cork

Only saw it there. Suppose we had to play a QF sometime but it is a very tricky draw all the same.

Mountainlad · 04-10-2012 9:57pm

deisebhoy17 wrote: »

Hold your horses there a little. Hes an important player for Waterford and has been particularly the last couple years since the old guard have retired. But some days he is average at best and theres no denying that. For me he dosent actually score enough to be considered a top quality forward. I think he wouldnt be on a lot of other county teams for that reason. Hed definetly have been given a chance at some stage by most counties but wouldnt be consistent enough. Dont get me wrong, glad to have him for us does a great job

My god. I'm actually stunned by this to be honest.

What team would he not get on other than Kilkenny? Go on, tell me who? I've already given at least one Galway player. He'd easily make the Cork team. He'd be a great asset to Limerick given the skilful, fast players they have to compliment his qualities. I think he'd make the Tipp team too. And it's a given that he'd be on any other counties team, and probably the best forward a lot of them would have.

He's had a tough year with injuries. You say he blow hot and cold and doesn't score that much some days, sure you could easily have said that about Joe Canning in 2009 and he still won an all-star.

Just think about his performance against Cork, he spearheaded the attack. Moran and Mullane won us the ball out around the middle that dragged us back into the game, but Shane Walsh was pivotal and look what happened when he went off injured.

We're making stars out of lads that are unproven at best, and then we go and undervalue one of our best players. Christ above.

PTH2009 · 04-10-2012 9:57pm

Cake Man wrote: »

Only saw it there. Suppose we had to play a QF sometime but it is a very tricky draw all the same.

Could be a short year. If we are to lose this QF we will go into the pool with the weaker teams Laois,Carlows and the likes.

solarith · 04-10-2012 10:03pm

Mountainlad wrote: »

My god. I'm actually stunned by this to be honest.

What team would he not get on other than Kilkenny? Go on, tell me who? I've already given at least one Galway player. He'd easily make the Cork team. He'd be a great asset to Limerick given the skilful, fast players they have to compliment his qualities. I think he'd make the Tipp team too. And it's a given that he'd be on any other counties team, and probably the best forward a lot of them would have.

He's had a tough year with injuries. You say he blow hot and cold and doesn't score that much some days, sure you could easily have said that about Joe Canning in 2009 and he still won an all-star.

Just think about his performance against Cork, he spearheaded the attack. Moran and Mullane won us the ball out around the middle that dragged us back into the game, but Shane Walsh was pivotal and look what happened when he went off injured.

We're making stars out of lads that are unproven at best, and then we go and undervalue one of our best players. Christ above.

Oh lawd, what did he score in Championship this year?

Mountainlad · 04-10-2012 10:06pm

solarith wrote: »

Oh lawd, what did he score in Championship this year?

1-4 I think. What did Mullane score? Are you going to tell me he wouldn't make the team of any of the top 6?

solarith · 04-10-2012 10:18pm

Mountainlad wrote: »

1-4 I think. What did Mullane score? Are you going to tell me he wouldn't make the team of any of the top 6?

Don't tell me Mullane scored less than 1-4....?

Mountainlad · 04-10-2012 10:21pm

solarith wrote: »

Don't tell me Mullane scored less than 1-4....?

He scored, 7 points exactly...

solarith · 04-10-2012 10:26pm

Mountainlad wrote: »

He scored, 7 points exactly...

No wonder we did so poorly.

KevIRL · 04-10-2012 10:28pm

PTH2009 wrote: »

Could be a short year. If we are to lose this QF we will go into the pool with the weaker teams Laois,Carlows and the likes.

God your constant pesmism is annoying. Yep we are likely in for a tough few years, but its still not all that likely to be too short a year. Lose to Clare and we go into the early rounds of the qualifiers, but we will be too good for Laois/Westmeath etc, much the same as Limerick and Wexford were this year. We should make the final qualifier round no matter what happens, and then its a one off match at a quarter final, anything could happen there.

Beat Clare but lose to Cork and we are still in that last qualifier round. Somehow get to the Munster final and we are into the Quarter Final at worst.

We are in for a tough season no doubt, probably a few seasons, we have some transistion to go through, I just hope that people give the management and players a chance and dont jump on every bad result. We probably need to readjust expectations a bit, cant be thinking that an all ireland semi final is the minimum expected. I would much rather a proper plan put in place to bring through players and get a good team for the future together even if it meant sacrificing some short term limited success

doz · 04-10-2012 10:51pm

A difficult draw certainly but there's a long way to go until that game and it's a little foolish to be making predictions at this stage. Hopefully we can unearth a few players during the league who can acquit themselves well and come in and do a great jobs like Daniels and O'Keeffe did this year.

On the subject of young forwards coming through, I'm sure that this has probably been raised before, but is anyone else really concerned about the SIZE of the younger players coming through at present? We really do need a physical presence in our forward line and I just haven't seen any player yet who could fulfill that role, with the possible exception of Eoin Madigan. We have a lot of skillful fleet footed youngsters coming through the ranks but all are on the light and small side. This was particularly evident in the minor, u21 and intermediate games this year where we were completely dominated on a physical scale.

solarith · 04-10-2012 11:00pm

doz wrote: »

A difficult draw certainly but there's a long way to go until that game and it's a little foolish to be making predictions at this stage. Hopefully we can unearth a few players during the league who can acquit themselves well and come in and do a great jobs like Daniels and O'Keeffe did this year.

On the subject of young forwards coming through, I'm sure that this has probably been raised before, but is anyone else really concerned about the SIZE of the younger players coming through at present? We really do need a physical presence in our forward line and I just haven't seen any player yet who could fulfill that role, with the possible exception of Eoin Madigan. We have a lot of skillful fleet footed youngsters coming through the ranks but all are on the light and small side. This was particularly evident in the minor, u21 and intermediate games this year where we were completely dominated on a physical scale.

Valid point, you'd have to look at the lack of transition from the Munster Minor winning team to the u21 team this year - they weren't physically developed to the required standard at all. This is the most important transition and it's being poorly looked after right now, as far as I can see (when you look at how physical many sides u21s are now).

deisebhoy17 · 05-10-2012 8:02am

zol 2 wrote: »

Well if you were at this game i'm amazed to 2 barry's didn't deserve a mention in your opinion of the game? Ray Barry got 1-8 i think and Seanie Barry was outstanding in goal(as he has been all year at senior and underage level).As for Bennett i'm well aware of his age i just think POTENTIALLY he can be top class and if Gavin O Brien is adjudged to be a senior player at 18-where he acquitted himself very well,then surely introducing this guy sensibly to the set up would do no harm.Is this ludicrous??????????

ah here lad I just mentoned 3 or 4 players with potential in a previous post and your kicking up a stink because I didnt mention any from Lismore. Im not even going to get sucked into this argument. Shur you cant keep every club happy. As for your opinion to have Stephen Bennett on the co. senior hurling panel? I'll let other posters be the judge of that whether its ludicrous or not

deisebhoy17 · 05-10-2012 8:11am

Mountainlad wrote: »

My god. I'm actually stunned by this to be honest.

What team would he not get on other than Kilkenny? Go on, tell me who? I've already given at least one Galway player. He'd easily make the Cork team. He'd be a great asset to Limerick given the skilful, fast players they have to compliment his qualities. I think he'd make the Tipp team too. And it's a given that he'd be on any other counties team, and probably the best forward a lot of them would have.

He's had a tough year with injuries. You say he blow hot and cold and doesn't score that much some days, sure you could easily have said that about Joe Canning in 2009 and he still won an all-star.

Just think about his performance against Cork, he spearheaded the attack. Moran and Mullane won us the ball out around the middle that dragged us back into the game, but Shane Walsh was pivotal and look what happened when he went off injured.

We're making stars out of lads that are unproven at best, and then we go and undervalue one of our best players. Christ above.

Here we go again:rolleyes: God forbid anyone should have a different opinion to you.

I remember his performance against Cork he was causing them all sorts of problems before he got injured. He has had many good games but many poor ones aswell and has been substituted on plenty of occasions for being completely ineffective. That happens too many times for me to consider a player that would 'walk onto Cork' or any other co. team for that matter. Its impossible to say for certain which counties, some counties might rate a player like him, others might have many similar players to him. Its not a matter of black and white that hed definetly get on any other co. team bar Kilkenny. (imo)

premierstone · 05-10-2012 10:52am

Love the way people use scoring averages when it suits their arguement but when it doesn't they are irrelevant. Take Bonner Maher as a perfect example of this.

FWIW as I stated earlier Walsh is a very effective asset and would be to any team, if utilised properly.

Mountainlad · 05-10-2012 11:25am

deisebhoy17 wrote: »

Here we go again:rolleyes: God forbid anyone should have a different opinion to you.

I remember his performance against Cork he was causing them all sorts of problems before he got injured. He has had many good games but many poor ones aswell and has been substituted on plenty of occasions for being completely ineffective. That happens too many times for me to consider a player that would 'walk onto Cork' or any other co. team for that matter. Its impossible to say for certain which counties, some counties might rate a player like him, others might have many similar players to him. Its not a matter of black and white that hed definetly get on any other co. team bar Kilkenny. (imo)

He would walk onto the Cork team, and I stand by that. Compare his and Mullane's performances against Tipp. Mullane got 3 first half points, Shane Walsh got 2. Now, Mullane was easily as well shackled as Shane Walsh was in the second half, so you have to at least take that into consideration. Taling about him being taken off, he's had a hard year with injuries. He came off against Clare because of that (in case you had any misconceptions that he was playing poorly, think about how long Eoin Kelly was left on the field). He came off against Cork again because he was injured. And yet you'd hold that against him?

The quality of ball improved a bit this year, but the last few years or delivery into the forwards hasn't really been good enough. And I'm sure you're probably thinking about the Kilkenny game last year. He missed one or two chances he should have scored, but he was playing as a one man full forward line for a lot of that game, against the best team of all time. Only a world class idiot could conceive a plan to that effect and expect it to work. In 2010, our manager decided he should play wing forward. That's not a position he plays anywhere near as well as he does full forward, so I think there's more of a question as to why you would play some inferior full forward (ok Mullane is not inferior, but if you played him corner or centre forward it would have worked just as well and overall your forward line would improve).

In 2009, when he made the impact he'd been threatening for a while, he scored the crucial goal against Galway and 2 against a Kilkenny side that only concede 5 goals that year I think, a four in a row defense.

I shouldn't need to go into all this detail, but I feel as if we've developed a bit of a short memory around here. I'm just waiting for you to call bias into question here. But I think given you accused me of being 'anti Mount Sion' before, maybe I could ask you why a lot of your criticisms seem to centre on Fourmilewater players, and we could perhaps determine whether it's actually you who is inflicted by bias.

deisebhoy17 · 05-10-2012 11:44am

PTH2009 wrote: »

Could be a short year. If we are to lose this QF we will go into the pool with the weaker teams Laois,Carlows and the likes.

Teams that lose in the quarter final/first round are actually at an advantage in that theyve a handier path to the phase 3 qualifiers than beaten semi finalists

deisebhoy17 · 05-10-2012 7:54pm

Mountainlad wrote: »

. maybe I could ask you why a lot of your criticisms seem to centre on Fourmilewater players, and we could perhaps determine whether it's actually you who is inflicted by bias.

i dont think I particularly criticise FMW more so than any other club. you just think that because you seem to take strong offence anytime me or anyone else does. Its just my honest opinion I dont rate this player as highly as you do

Mountainlad · 05-10-2012 8:37pm

deisebhoy17 wrote: »

i dont think I particularly criticise FMW more so than any other club. you just think that because you seem to take strong offence anytime me or anyone else does. Its just my honest opinion I dont rate this player as highly as you do

You've criticized Michael Ryan, Liam Lawlor, The O'Gorman twins and now Shane Walsh. That's quite a lot.

I really never thought I'd have to defend Shane Walsh. I am not saying he's on the same level as Mullane, but he's comfortably our second best forward and is a valuable asset. I think it's an insult to both Shane Walsh and the Waterford team for someone to suggest he wouldn't make any other team in the top 6. Maybe he wouldn't make two or, at a stretch, 3 but it's incredible that someone could say he wouldn't make the other 5. And that's why I got annoyed. I know you didn't say that, but when you responded I assumed you have a similar view.

By the way, I have not up until now not accused you on any of those occasions of having something against that club, but you know eventually we were going to have the straw that broke the camels back (especially with your persistence in implying I have allegiances to them). Given that suggesting Eoin McGrath should not be in the Waterford team and that Mount Sion shouldn't be considered in the top 4 in the County (at the time they didn't) was enough for me to have questions raised about whether I've a grudge against them, I think it was at least worth asking you that given the regularity with which you criticize FMW players.

deisebhoy17 · 05-10-2012 9:50pm

Mountainlad wrote: »

You've criticized Michael Ryan, Liam Lawlor, The O'Gorman twins and now Shane Walsh. That's quite a lot.

I really never thought I'd have to defend Shane Walsh. I am not saying he's on the same level as Mullane, but he's comfortably our second best forward and is a valuable asset. I think it's an insult to both Shane Walsh and the Waterford team for someone to suggest he wouldn't make any other team in the top 6. Maybe he wouldn't make two or, at a stretch, 3 but it's incredible that someone could say he wouldn't make the other 5. And that's why I got annoyed. I know you didn't say that, but when you responded I assumed you have a similar view.

By the way, I have not up until now not accused you on any of those occasions of having something against that club, but you know eventually we were going to have the straw that broke the camels back (especially with your persistence in implying I have allegiances to them). Given that suggesting Eoin McGrath should not be in the Waterford team and that Mount Sion shouldn't be considered in the top 4 in the County (at the time they didn't) was enough for me to have questions raised about whether I've a grudge against them, I think it was at least worth asking you that given the regularity with which you criticize FMW players.

and i stand by everything I said about them. Lawlor to be fair has grown more into the Full back role since the nightmare he had in the 10' semi final against Tipp and is now a solid full back and has improved but i think my reservations about him at the time were warranted. As for Michael Ryan, I didnt think he was the right man at the time for the job and I'm still not convinced. Hes entitled to another season but a big improvement is needed next year. People are just happy that Davy Fitz is gone but imho the results this year were poor and the manner of the defeat to Cork was hugely disappointing. Have things improved since Davy Fitz? Maybe the style of play but results wise its gone backwards. Are we happy with that?

Its nothing to do with a vendetta against FMW it just happens to be an opinion. If you look at a previous post you'll see that I mentioned a young FMW player as an impressive young player and one for the future but you chose to ignore that

comeraghs · 05-10-2012 10:29pm

I think it is time we talked to Clare about a home & away arrangement.

Walsh Park & Cusack Park are both big enough to hold the probable crowd, 15,000 or so.

Why should the Tipp county board be the only ones to benefit financially from Waterford & Clare supporters.

Deskjockey · 06-10-2012 1:08am

deisebhoy17 wrote: »

Mountainlad wrote: »

So, he wouldn't make it into the Galway full forward line ahead of James Regan (to name but one)? Or the Limerick forward line (which is good, but they don't have 6 quality forwards). I'd have him in the Tipp team ahead of Brian O'Meara and Pa Bourke (if I had another free taker). He'd walk onto the Cork team.

The only team I could see him not making would be the Kilkenny team.

Hold your horses there a little. Hes an important player for Waterford and has been particularly the last couple years since the old guard have retired. But some days he is average at best and theres no denying that. For me he dosent actually score enough to be considered a top quality forward. I think he wouldnt be on a lot of other county teams for that reason. Hed definetly have been given a chance at some stage by most counties but wouldnt be consistent enough. Dont get me wrong, glad to have him for us does a great job

I think this is a fair comment. Don't know how I left him out of my original query in fact, when I was going through the forwards- apologies to Shane he has been a good servant to Waterford hurling. Has scored some important goals for us over the past few years.

Deskjockey · 06-10-2012 1:12am

comeraghs wrote: »

I think it is time we talked to Clare about a home & away arrangement.

Walsh Park & Cusack Park are both big enough to hold the probable crowd, 15,000 or so.

Why should the Tipp county board be the only ones to benefit financially from Waterford & Clare supporters.

As long as we're not playing them in Limerick I don't mind. Hoor of a place to get out of.

daddydick · 06-10-2012 10:36am

Deisebhoy17 has clearly never been given the task of trying to mark Shane Walsh - oh wow he is some beast and he hurts!!

Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2011-2012

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