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Current committee stepping down on June 9th 2007

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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 10,243 Mod ✭✭✭✭flogen


    Boston wrote:
    Flogen, shut up.

    Tee-hee


  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,462 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    Well done to the committee, ah I remember the Surf No-Limits day, I also remember suggesting names for the group before it became known as Ireland Off-Line,

    All in the historys books now :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,503 ✭✭✭ElNino


    I was one of the people who got the infamous Esat Surf No Limits letter also. I would like the committee for everything they have done. I thought that I would never be able to get broadband but I have DSL now and I sure the committee played some not insignificant part in many others like me getting broadband.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,265 ✭✭✭RangeR


    I have no idea what I want to say but I can't just say nothing. I remember hearing about IOFFL soon after they started up. At the time I was very unhappy about the internet situation. Memories are very fuzzy trying to think back that far.

    I seriously think that we wouldn't be were we are today without the un-tiring help and pushing of IOFFL. I wish you and those that have gone before you, all the best in your future prospects.


    Keith


  • Registered Users Posts: 477 ✭✭DonegalMan


    Cabaal wrote:
    I also remember suggesting names for the group before it became known as Ireland Off-Line, All in the historys books now :)
    And for the record, the original names proposed included:

    IRELANDOFFLINE
    CUBIC (Campaign forUnmetered and Broadband Internet Connectivity)
    CUBIT (Campaign forUnmetered and Broadband Internet Telecommunications)
    CUBA (Campaign for Unmetered and Broadband Access)
    CRISP (Campaign for Real Internet Service Provision)
    MAIA : Movement for Affordable Internet Access
    MAFIA : Movement for Affordable (Free?) Internet Access
    NUI : Net Users Ireland
    AIM : Affordable Internet Movement
    CRAIC (Campaign for Reliable Affordable Internet Connection )
    CIH (Campaign Internet Highway)
    ROCHTAIN (Irish for 'Access')
    NIA (National Internet Access)
    IIUA -(Irish Internet Users Association)
    CAIN (Campaign for unmetered internet access)
    NAG (Net Access group)
    INTERCAM (Internet Campaign) or NETCAM
    MANIA (Movement for Affordable National Internet Access)
    CHOPSTIC (Campaign to Have ODTR Power Supplemented To Transform Internet
    Communications)
    MADFRISBEE (Movement to Allow Development of Flat Rate Internet
    NAILBOMB (National Action for Internet Local-Loop Based On Modern Broadband)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 477 ✭✭DonegalMan


    Just to add my own 2 cents as someone who was involved from the very start, I genuinely believe that IOFFL did make a real impact.

    One particularly important thing was to create a source of real and accurate information for the media trying to cut through the tripe put out by Eircom and Comreg. Not to take anything away from the sterling work done by previous commitees and many helpers in the background, Damien Mulley and John Timmons did a really outstanding job in that regard.

    I enjoyed my involvement with IOFFL, I'm kinda sad to see it go, but our ultimate aim was always to achieve the situation where we were no longer needed. Whilst there are still issues out there to be resolved, I think that IOFFL has come close to that objective, everyone out there now fully understands how far Ireland is still behind by international standards and what has to be done.

    Martin Harran


  • Registered Users Posts: 37,295 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    IMO, the two good things IrelandOffline did were to kick ComReg up the ass on occasion, and to let the press know when companies were talking through their ass.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,659 ✭✭✭✭dahamsta


    Jesus, can you imagine how bad ComReg would have been if IrelandOffline wasn't about? The mind boggles.

    adam


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,884 ✭✭✭cgarvey


    Congrats to Damien. He's been a real worker and motivator and has steered IO through a number of certain deaths to have it become a respected opinion/voice. I presume, and hope, he'll continue to be a respected individual opinion. He's been a pleasure to work with (and in my case, not work with!).

    Congrats, too, to all those who helped out down through the years, Adam & Martin notably (and Christian and the early guys).. all who gave time, money, holdiays and dedication to the cause. The individual congrats is still reserved for Damo, who was the only one I've worked with (and who seems to take on the vast majority of the work load)!

    I think now is a good time to wind down, with more and more people getting Broadband, with IO workload increasingly falling on fewer hands, and with a shift away from availability towards consumer issue (not saying availability is no longer the main issue or anything!). If we were to take a reality check, and do a membership count, I'm pretty sure we'd see a huge dip, so the peak has definitely gone. That is a mark of success of the group, I think, and congrats to those involved.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 749 ✭✭✭Dangger


    One particularly important thing was to create a source of real and accurate information for the media trying to cut through the tripe put out by Eircom and Comreg. Not to take anything away from the sterling work done by previous commitees and many helpers in the background, Damien Mulley and John Timmons did a really outstanding job in that regard.

    Here here. The speedy accurate no nonsense counter spin that has been required in answering slick telco talk was one of the many IOFFL activities that Damien, John and the IOFFL crew excelled at. I was continually amazed (having been involved at committee level myself in the past) at their press release turn around times.

    The management of their relationship with the media has been excellent. As Damien mentioned the Irish press and radio did a lot to pick up and run with the issues and in doing so developed their own understanding of the issues. So thanks to the fourth estate for all the coverage over the years!

    Ireland Offline educated many from punter to politician, DJ to journalist. It's willingness to do so has been a key part of its success and also a huge draw on the energies of its committee.

    So once again thank you all for stepping up when you did, giving so much and doing such tremendous work on all our behalf over the years.
    I enjoyed my involvement with IOFFL, I'm kinda sad to see it go, but our ultimate aim was always to achieve the situation where we were no longer needed.

    It was always the aim to make ourselves unnecessary.

    I was in Dublin airport when the story buzzed into my ear and I thought back to IOFFL's beginnings on quite a nostalgic trip........the initial get together, the rumbles, the site design arguments, the trips to Athlone to meet Mary (who gave us keys to the first door), the first meetings with Esat, Eircom, the cups of tea in ComReg, the cups of tea in Elana and Brendan's, the early morning Dáil briefings, the first meeting with Dahamsta, waiting to go on air on radio [shudder], waiting to record a tv item [even bigger shudder], trying to make magazine copy deadlines (and not getting paid), trying to make newspaper deadlines and making the front page, trade shows, conferences, sharing stages at First Tuesday with head honchos, taking individual cases to the honchos, bar room brawls, corporate secrets, whip arounds for room hire charges, member revolts, slanderous emails, unending phone calls, long drives, last minute speech edits, 4 free pints (yay!), having coffee and bending the ears of journalists, presenting the case to the European telecoms hearing in Brussels, being warned by ComReg not to go ;), all the support, the progress.

    A snippet, all voluntary, and I feel a fraction of what the latest carnation of IOFFL has been through.

    Thanks guys.
    (and thanks for the pints Dahamsta)


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 36,634 ✭✭✭✭Ruu_Old


    Cabaal wrote:
    Well done to the committee, ah I remember the Surf No-Limits day, I also remember suggesting names for the group before it became known as Ireland Off-Line,

    All in the historys books now :)

    I was one of those connected with Surf No-Limits, got the dreaded letter telling me I was to be cut off because I was abusing the "spirit of the service". :( Fair play to all involved in IOFFL over the years, well done indeed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,500 ✭✭✭viking


    D-day.

    Well done to all who sailed in the good ship IrelandOffline over the years. I greatly value the time I spent on the committee and enjoyed the experience immensely.

    Gareth


  • Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭jwt


    It was a sad day. IOFFL has done more to highlight Broadband and expose the slugs under rocks than any other organisation in Ireland.

    And yes there are slugs, but there are also gems, people who worked in the most unexpected companies and Government departments offering help advice and most of all confirmation that we were making a difference. That important people were paying attention, getting annoyed at us overturning their spin and highlighting deficiencies.

    It did feel at times like you were banging your head against a brick wall but yet when you saw a nugget of information IOFFL had ferreted out being used by the media to great effect in a debate on broadband it was very satisfying.:)

    It was an incredible learning experience and in particular learning just how much power and influence the media and journalists wield in Ireland. At the same time it could be a soul destroying grind, watching the same old tripe being regurgitated in print, passed off by lazy journalists as gospel truth with no fact checking of any kind.

    I also learned how much dicipline it requires to do live interviews and deal with the nerves and fumbles that occur during an interview. I have a lot more respect for politicians and others who do this day in and day out. It is not easy and takes a high level of mental agility and intelligence. Next time you see someone fumble, stutter, loose track of their argument and generally come off as an idiot, thats an ordinary Joe Soap. The polished and prefessional ones are very very good. David McRedmond, IOFFL's arch nemesis, was one such and although he was the enemy, was a consumate professional. He made it look easy. :o

    Lessons learnt are as follows.

    Regulators in Ireland are baaad, mm okay?

    Not deliberately bad, not populated by roaming hoards of trolls but by the very nature of them and the environment they operate in, Irish regulators are the ultimate “Designed by a committee” solutions. Tied by regulation, shafted from above by politicians, below by consumers and sideways by vested interests they have and will be ineffectual in their current guise.

    Stick to facts ma’am

    Spin and anti-spin is the cut and thrust of any debate these days and IOFFL were incredibly successful by sticking to the facts, backing up their facts with statistics, reports and third party publications. By countering spin with easy to digest nuggets of information, researched data and concise summaries of EU and other reports we were able to consistently give a straight answer to a straight question.

    Oireachtas committees mean well.

    When I heard that an Oireachtas committee was issuing a report that slammed broadband in Ireland and was offering clear easy steps to the solution that were echoed in earlier reports from other Government reports I though “Here we go, we’ve cracked it”. Not a hope. In theory everyone in Government should pay attention to such a report, in reality the few people who could actually implement the report didn’t.

    Be careful what you wish for.

    In a few cases when lamenting about a particular Minister or the implementation of a brilliant idea, IOFFL’s wishes were granted. We got a new Minister and we got an idea using the Group Water Schemes as a template for broadband implemented. Sadly in the first instance it was out of the frying pan into the fire and in second the resulting mishmash of ideas, concepts and implementation resulted in a half cocked plan that was unwieldy, difficult to implement and staggeringly hard to get access to.




    It’s been fun in general and I am more than willing to help anyone who wishes to continue the work of IOFFL or other lobby groups relating to this area.

    Thank you to the members, who kept us going, contributed to the debate and gave us the moral support. In particular I’d like to thank Damien, his hard work beggar’s belief. :eek:

    I’ll still be around on boards so feel free to make contact or PM me if needs be.

    Regards

    John


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,309 ✭✭✭✭Bard


    I'm both happy and sad to see the end of this committee - and the end of the organisation.

    - Happy because I remember the lobby group in the UK ceasing 'operations' as they believed their objectives had been met and always thought that IrelandOFFLine would do the same... which, for the most part, is true - as broadband penetration is vastly improved since the organisation started up, and that is thanks in no small part to IrelandOFFLine.

    - Sad because ... well ... *sniff* - it's 'over'! I, myself, was there at the very beginning. I co-chaired, with Howard Brittain, the meeting which led to the formation of the organisation and the first committee, I moderated the forum for quite a while and designed and maintained the IOFFL web site (I even won an award... at an awards ceremony!... for that site!). I even remember the stupid arguments we had over what the organisation was to be called (probably still archived on usenet somewhere!).

    Still, let me not take away from the sterling work of the last committee and, in particular, Damien Mulley. Great job lads!

    Nice interview, by the way...!


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,290 ✭✭✭damien


    Been wondering what to say about this whole thing for the past while. Thanks to those expressing their thanks.

    Since the official announcement I've had some interesting conversations with some of the major players in the telco market. They've all said that without IrelandOffline things would be worse than they are and that 1000s if not 100s of 1000s can get broadband today directly because of the pressure from IrelandOffline. While I'm sure there'll never be official acknowledgement that IrelandOffline twisted their arms there is plenty of whispered commentary that we would not be even near where we are in terms of progress without this group and without this forum.

    This shows that a small group of people working hard for a positive cause will get things done. IrelandOffline was destined to close shop some day but I don't think last Friday was the ideal day. More has to be done but unfortunately nobody came forward in time. It was however an "ok" time to close down as a lot of progress is now being made and things could get a lot better in the next while.

    There was a an editorial in the business section of the Irish Times today wondering what will happen now with IrelandOffline going but it also said there should never have been a need for an IrelandOffline (in an ideal telco world) and they're right. Had the Government and the regulator and all the other players had a backbone and considered the public interest and not those of powerful vested interests, we could easily have been at the tops of most tables and had cheap phone bills. A few months back at the blog awards someone that works for a telco came up to meand shook my hand and thanked me and IrelandOffline and said IrelandOffline were legendary for sticking it to eircom and ComReg, why aren't ALTO and the operators doing this?

    As it says in the Times:
    You can't help feeling the big winner from the decision by Ireland Offline to shut up shop is ComReg. The organisation was as much a thorn in its side as it was with Eircom and the other phone companies. When, as expected, ComReg approves the price rise application that Eircom diplomatically put off until after the election, there will be one less voice criticising ComReg as it does its bit to keep inflation over 5 per cent.

    Again I agree. ComReg I'm sure broke out the champagne when they heard the news we are going and I notice again their weekly bull**** was front page in the Examiner today and on many radio stations, completely unchallenged.
    I can't stress the next bit enough. ComReg will go back to doing worse than they did. They need to be blocked and parryed every week and if necessary every day. They're a complete cancer on Irish telecoms and they are a prime reason why everything is so screwed up in the telecoms industry and they are left do it by too many telcos who are worried about retributions which do actually happen. See that's the thing, a professional group can accept criticism and can take the **** that IrelandOffline throw at them. This is not the ComReg we all know. Until a telco has nothing at all to lose, you will not see any kind of real fight taking place.

    IrelandOffline isn't about now to challenge ComReg and their big player apologist stance, so it is up to people here, the few of you that remain these days to contact journalists or group together to combat these messers in a more formal manner. So far since we made the announcement, 3 people have said they want to do something and I will put them in contact with each other but it needs more than that.

    Lastly, as JWT mentions, IrelandOffline may be put to bed and a simple footnote in the history of Irish telecoms, but as individuals, we've not gone away you know and I'm guranteeing to the ComReg trolls that sneak around here that they'll know we're not gone.


  • Registered Users Posts: 837 ✭✭✭BarryM


    damien.m wrote:
    This shows that a small group of people working hard for a positive cause will get things done. IrelandOffline was destined to close shop some day but I don't think last Friday was the ideal day. More has to be done but unfortunately nobody came forward in time. It was however an "ok" time to close down as a lot of progress is now being made and things could get a lot better in the next while.

    I don't want to carp, but what efforts were made to recruit a new or even a partly new committee??

    IrelandOffline isn't about now to challenge ComReg and their big player apologist stance, so it is up to people here, the few of you that remain these days to contact journalists or group together to combat these messers in a more formal manner. So far since we made the announcement, 3 people have said they want to do something and I will put them in contact with each other but it needs more than that.

    Add me to that, and is there a list of journos somewhere with their co-ordinates who can be alerted to things? For ex who wrote the Examiner piece you mention? (didn't see it).

    Bye, Barry


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,884 ✭✭✭cgarvey


    BarryM wrote:
    I don't want to carp, but what efforts were made to recruit a new or even a partly new committee??

    It was announced here on the forums, and emailed to all members. That's all the communication methods ever used by IoffL. You can't beat someone up and make them serve on the committee.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    BarryM wrote:
    I don't want to carp, but what efforts were made to recruit a new or even a partly new committee??




    Add me to that, and is there a list of journos somewhere with their co-ordinates who can be alerted to things? For ex who wrote the Examiner piece you mention? (didn't see it).

    Bye, Barry

    I'ts been public knowledge some time and the committee had kept putting off the evil moment in case new folks with time would step forward.

    RTE radio moring news did a good interview with Damian


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,797 ✭✭✭Paddy20


    As Damien.M stated "They have not gone away, you know" :) . All I can add is without IrelandOffline I probably would still be being 'Ripped Off' by Eircom.

    Grateful thanks lad's for highlighting the problems, educating the media and consequently achieving a reasonable broadband price for most people in the Irish Republic :D .

    P.:cool:


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