Road deaths on the rise

mydiscworld · 17-10-2013 2:03pm

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

That's well and good. But has anything been done yet ?

I posted that same question earlier today on the other thread.

We'd probably need locals to say whether their particular road on the list had been fixed

antoobrien · 17-10-2013 2:47pm

mydiscworld wrote: »

I posted that same question earlier today on the other thread.

We'd probably need locals to say whether their particular road on the list had been fixed

We'd have to know what roads were actually on the list before we can answer them as nobody has posted the titular list.

mydiscworld · 17-10-2013 2:48pm

antoobrien wrote: »

We'd have to know what roads were actually on the list before we can answer them as nobody has posted the titular list.

Seems to be an unpublished internal list

mydiscworld · 04-11-2013 1:25pm

Figures as of today, Nov 4th 2013 stand at

160 Road deaths in 2013 vs 142 at the same point in 2012 - a 12.7% increase.

151 Collisions in 2013 vs 132 in 2012 - a 12.6% increase.

http://www.garda.ie/Controller.aspx?Page=10816&Lang=1

ardmacha · 04-11-2013 1:44pm

Also on the increase in the North
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/ministers-plea-as-road-deaths-rise-29708017.html
up almost one third last week

road_high · 04-11-2013 1:44pm

mydiscworld wrote: »

Figures as of today, Nov 4th 2013 stand at

160 Road deaths in 2013 vs 142 at the same point in 2012 - a 12.7% increase.

151 Collisions in 2013 vs 132 in 2012 - a 12.6% increase.

http://www.garda.ie/Controller.aspx?Page=10816&Lang=1

Past few weeks seemed to be an awful lot of crashes, presume down to very wet weather. Had a narrow one myself last week when i hit a stream of water across an N road, car pulled to wrong side of road. Was so lucky there nothing coming other side.

Iwannahurl · 04-11-2013 1:50pm

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

IMO, road "safety" cameras seem to be the 10s equivalent of the 80's black spot sign.

That's well wide of the mark, imo. Standard signage has its uses, but makes a negligible difference compared to measures providing 'feedback' to motorists.

Feedback to erring motorists in the form of speeding fines and penalty points is effective, which is why speed surveillance is used as a major road safety intervention in pretty much every developed country.

mydiscworld wrote: »

Figures as of today, Nov 4th 2013 stand at

160 Road deaths in 2013 vs 142 at the same point in 2012 - a 12.7% increase.

151 Collisions in 2013 vs 132 in 2012 - a 12.6% increase.

http://www.garda.ie/Controller.aspx?Page=10816&Lang=1

I notice also that one in every seven fatalities is a pedestrian. Not sure whether that's a proportional increase or not.

mydiscworld · 12-11-2013 11:00am

Figures for 2013 are now already higher than in all of 2012

165 as of 11/11/13 vs 162 at 31/12/12

AugustusMinimus · 12-11-2013 11:10am

Iwannahurl wrote: »

That's well wide of the mark, imo. Standard signage has its uses, but makes a negligible difference compared to measures providing 'feedback' to motorists.

Feedback to erring motorists in the form of speeding fines and penalty points is effective, which is why speed surveillance is used as a major road safety intervention in pretty much every developed country.

I guess you're right. At least Black Spot signs were put before bad bends unlike speed cameras which are mainly put on dead straight sections of N road.

SpaceTime · 12-11-2013 11:15am

I wonder what's driven them up this year?

Weather has to play a part. I'd like to see an analysis of days of rain / cloud vs accidents.

The other big factor though is reduced Garda presence on the roads due to cut backs and ageing fleet also due to lack of money.

road_high · 12-11-2013 12:22pm

SpaceTime wrote: »

I wonder what's driven them up this year?

Weather has to play a part. I'd like to see an analysis of days of rain / cloud vs accidents.

The other big factor though is reduced Garda presence on the roads due to cut backs and ageing fleet also due to lack of money.

I think overall the weather has been good this year, less trainfall than usual for much of the year. I think traffic volumes are up a fair bit (notice it myself) and that surely is playing a part.

BaronVon · 12-11-2013 12:49pm

SpaceTime wrote: »

I wonder what's driven them up this year?

Weather has to play a part. I'd like to see an analysis of days of rain / cloud vs accidents.

I'd say the good weather drove up the number of motorcycle fatalities. Motorbikes were being dusted down and driven for the first time in years this summer, and plenty extra miles were put on existing bikes

SpaceTime · 13-11-2013 5:48pm

You also have to factor in the very small population relative to say the UK or France, which can mean that a small real number increase is a huge % swing.

I wonder if prolonged periods of rainfall for example result in more cautious driving ?

road_high · 13-11-2013 8:20pm

SpaceTime wrote: »

You also have to factor in the very small population relative to say the UK or France, which can mean that a small real number increase is a huge % swing.

I wonder if prolonged periods of rainfall for example result in more cautious driving ?

I think prolonged dry periods and then heavy rain are worse. That's what this year has been like too. People lulled into a false sense of security.

mydiscworld · 14-11-2013 10:11am

SpaceTime wrote: »

You also have to factor in the very small population relative to say the UK or France, which can mean that a small real number increase is a huge % swing.

I wonder if prolonged periods of rainfall for example result in more cautious driving ?

Good weather (such as more cyclists and bikers) and bad weather will always play their part.

We do have a small population so figures will swing +- say 15 or so from here on.

But I do feel numbers could be dropped further by putting in motorways on more dangerous routes. For example, Cork to Limerick and the last stretch from Gort to Galway. Perhaps 5-10 dying there each year. I'd say this could drop to 3-4 if it was all motorway.

road_high · 14-11-2013 6:26pm

mydiscworld wrote: »

Good weather (such as more cyclists and bikers) and bad weather will always play their part.

We do have a small population so figures will swing +- say 15 or so from here on.

But I do feel numbers could be dropped further by putting in motorways on more dangerous routes. For example, Cork to Limerick and the last stretch from Gort to Galway. Perhaps 5-10 dying there each year. I'd say this could drop to 3-4 if it was all motorway.

Definitely. And minor bend removal/widening on other national, national secondary and R roads would help enormously. Junctions need to be vastly improved on many roads with improved visibilty and and signage/markings.

AugustusMinimus · 14-11-2013 7:29pm

mydiscworld wrote: »

Good weather (such as more cyclists and bikers) and bad weather will always play their part.

We do have a small population so figures will swing +- say 15 or so from here on.

But I do feel numbers could be dropped further by putting in motorways on more dangerous routes. For example, Cork to Limerick and the last stretch from Gort to Galway. Perhaps 5-10 dying there each year. I'd say this could drop to 3-4 if it was all motorway.

I doubt even 3-4 would die on Cork to Limerick if it was motorway. Motorway deaths are very unusual in this country.

road_high · 14-11-2013 9:30pm

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

I doubt even 3-4 would die on Cork to Limerick if it was motorway. Motorway deaths are very unusual in this country.

Yes they appear very safe don't they. On the rare occasion there is death it's usually a single vehicle accident as well.I think Irish motorways are of a very high standard layout, width and visibility thus low deaths. Now if only 50% of the drivers could actually use them correctly :mad:

SpaceTime · 14-11-2013 10:02pm

road_high wrote: »

Yes they appear very safe don't they. On the rare occasion there is death it's usually a single vehicle accident as well.I think Irish motorways are of a very high standard layout, width and visibility thus low deaths. Now if only 50% of the drivers could actually use them correctly :mad:

There are some exits on the M18 which are really weird layouts. They're the only ones I'd consider dangerous on new Irish motorway. The rest is all to high spec from what I've seen.

AugustusMinimus · 15-11-2013 1:18am

road_high wrote: »

Yes they appear very safe don't they. On the rare occasion there is death it's usually a single vehicle accident as well.I think Irish motorways are of a very high standard layout, width and visibility thus low deaths. Now if only 50% of the drivers could actually use them correctly :mad:

IMO, the biggest reason that motorways are so save is that head on collisions simply can't happen, unless someone is driving the wrong way.

mydiscworld · 26-11-2013 11:43am

Deaths figure now stands at 172 at 26/11/13.

http://www.garda.ie/Controller.aspx?Page=10816&Lang=1

2013 looks set to be also worse than 2011, which was 186.

http://www.garda.ie/Documents/User/Road%20Traffic%20Fatalities%20-%202008%20to%202012.pdf

Days 298 · 26-11-2013 11:54am

mydiscworld wrote: »

Deaths figure now stands at 172 at 26/11/13.

http://www.garda.ie/Controller.aspx?Page=10816&Lang=1

2013 looks set to be also worse than 2011, which was 186.

http://www.garda.ie/Documents/User/Road%20Traffic%20Fatalities%20-%202008%20to%202012.pdf

Seeing as so many young people have emigrated. The introduction of EDTs and IBTs. Increase in speed camera locations increase in tax and fuel, increase in unemployment so less driving. I'm going to have to say just from my experience. There are no checkpoints. No one in my direct family has meet one in 4 years. Also drivers simple day dreaming/fatigued is an epidemic and little is being done by gards or the RSA

Iwannahurl · 26-11-2013 12:07pm

Days 298 wrote: »

Seeing as so many young people have emigrated. The introduction of EDTs and IBTs. Increase in speed camera locations increase in tax and fuel, increase in unemployment so less driving.

I'm not sure what point you're making here. How does the above relate to increased road deaths?

Days 298 · 26-11-2013 12:39pm

Iwannahurl wrote: »

I'm not sure what point you're making here. How does the above relate to increased road deaths?

Less driving in total by groups in high risk categories compared to 2011. Newly qualified drivers have had mandatory lessons. Lower drink driving limits. This could just be a spike. People can't hardly expect it to constantly improve without spikes. Especially when human error is the cause. The lower road deaths the bigger spikes will look.

In my opinion, there should be more checkpoints for drink driving and to catch learners and phone use.

SeanW · 26-11-2013 11:31pm

SpaceTime wrote: »

There are some exits on the M18 which are really weird layouts. They're the only ones I'd consider dangerous on new Irish motorway. The rest is all to high spec from what I've seen.

There are also some junctions on the M7 that are extremely poor, I would say bordering on hazardous.

Iwannahurl · 27-11-2013 11:53pm

Days 298 wrote: »

Less driving in total by groups in high risk categories compared to 2011.

Would that not lead to a decrease in fatalities?

Sheldons Brain · 28-11-2013 12:14am

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Would that not lead to a decrease in fatalities?

Of course it would. That's his point, most changes should lead to reduction, rather than increase, in fatalities.

So why are accidents increasing. The only background factor, probably not sufficient to account for the changes is the increasing age of the car fleet.

Days 298 · 28-11-2013 11:28pm

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Would that not lead to a decrease in fatalities?

Yes they are measures that should, do you disagree? The question why an extra 24 people have died is impossible to answer compared to this time last year. Do you have a theory why these 24 people are dead? They are tragic accidents. I unfortunately cant ask the extra 24 people why they crashed when if we are to improve or just match last years statistics they should not have been killed. Thus accident can be used i.e the parties involved did not mean it to happen. A single judgement call gone horribly wrong.

Anyone could go out and make a fatal judgement call while behind the wheel or trying to cross the road and add to the statistics.

I believe drivers education must be improved, crap €30 tyres should be illegal, checkpoints to stop learners being unaccompanied and drunk and stoned drivers they should check tyre tread and brake lights. Set up an automated ANPR like system at checkpoints. Post off the fines and summons for no tax and NCT in the same way that speed cameras do. And a audio warning to the guards if someone has no insurance. The guards should not simple look at your 3 discs and wave you on. But then again checkpoints are few and far between, that needs to change. But none of those changes can prevent spikes happening now or in the future.

Maybe we should set up checkpoint areas similar to go safe speed camera areas. It would mean drivers know before they go onto main roads that there is a random chance that there will be a checkpoint at any time in the day. People will then go sort there brake lights out and all the other bits and pieces. There is a car near me whos wing mirror is attached with duct tape. That cant continue. The learner driver situation cant go on.

The last death was;

A man in his 40′s died from injuries suffered when the car he was driving collided with a pole on Churchtown Road Lower, D14 at approximately 1.45am on Wednesday 27th November.

The driver was the sole occupant of the car, and was taken to St Vincents Hospital but was later pronounced dead.

Very little legislation could prevent this. Better lighting? Guard with a hair dryer hidden away? Improved road surfaces if only...
Hopefully anti crash technology will improve and be integrated with cars soon.

Id like to hear your theory and solution to the increase or what I believe to be a spike. Year on year decreases in something like road deaths would be a miracle.

Maybe if we banned private motor vehicles we could but with all the lovely motorways we built that would be a shame.:pac:

AugustusMinimus · 29-11-2013 12:55am

Days 298 wrote: »

The last death was;
Very little legislation could prevent this. Better lighting? Guard with a hair dryer hidden away? Improved road surfaces if only...
Hopefully anti crash technology will improve and be integrated with cars soon.

Id like to hear your theory and solution to the increase or what I believe to be a spike. Year on year decreases in something like road deaths would be a miracle.

Maybe if we banned private motor vehicles we could but with all the lovely motorways we built that would be a shame.:pac:

I would imagine better mental healthcare being provided by the HSE would prevent more single car collisions than anything else.

Iwannahurl · 29-11-2013 11:59am

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

I would imagine better mental healthcare being provided by the HSE would prevent more single car collisions than anything else.

There isn't a lot of evidence to support that.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/10-of-single-vehicle-crashes-are-suicide-bids-250258.html

Road deaths on the rise

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