Gardai carrying Guns

Mike87 · 01-07-2012 4:10pm

sdeire wrote: »

Now some would say that this is not required, that this is Ireland, that we don't want a police state - these arguments are void. A police presence deters crime, fact. An effective and high-profile police presence should only intimidate those doing something wrong, and not those that it is designed to reassure - and if anyone law-abiding finds Gardaí / Police intimidating then in my opinion the issue is with their perception and should be "got over" - they're there to ensure your safety.

Just my €0.02.

Even if our Garda were armed. On a regular friday night, when everyone is walking about the city drunk/high/been a nuisance/starting fights etc you better believe if a Garda let a shot of from a firearm there would be a lot of questions to be answered. And drunk and disordely Joe Public knows this.

Not that I agree with you on the Garda been intimidating. But if "intimidation" is what you want. Then getting a crack on the head from a batton for been unruly is a very real threat. ANd a lot more realistic then getting shot.

You can be certain that if it became law that AGS carried firearms a garda would only be able to use said firearm if he could justify his life was in danger- and even then he'd still probably get some stick over it.

Batons/pepperspray and tasers are the way to go. ANd conicidently the way to go if you want to create and intimidation factor.

sdanseo · 01-07-2012 4:26pm

Mike87 wrote: »

Even if our Garda were armed. On a regular friday night, when everyone is walking about the city drunk/high/been a nuisance/starting fights etc you better believe if a Garda let a shot of from a firearm there would be a lot of questions to be answered. And drunk and disordely Joe Public knows this.

Not that I agree with you on the Garda been intimidating. But if "intimidation" is what you want. Then getting a crack on the head from a batton for been unruly is a very real threat. ANd a lot more realistic then getting shot.

You can be certain that if it became law that AGS carried firearms a garda would only be able to use said firearm if he could justify his life was in danger- and even then he'd still probably get some stick over it.

Agreed and rightly so. I think however the time has come for Gardaí to be routinely armed - public order is pretty much bottom on the list of situations where a gun may be needed.

[Deleted User] · 01-07-2012 5:19pm

sdeire wrote: »

Agreed and rightly so. I think however the time has come for Gardaí to be routinely armed - public order is pretty much bottom on the list of situations where a gun may be needed.

actually, public order incidents are nowhere near the list where a gun is needed.
you wont see too many armed gardai responding to drunken fights on the street with a gun hanging off them! thankfully they are are more sensible and better trained than that.

Mike87 · 01-07-2012 6:00pm

sdeire wrote: »

Agreed and rightly so. I think however the time has come for Gardaí to be routinely armed - public order is pretty much bottom on the list of situations where a gun may be needed.

I think you might have missed my point.

Im not a member of AGS so correct me if Im wrong. But I would imagine that the most frequent source of violence for the average Garda on the beat is responding to calls which includes drunk/drugged up assholes. In these cases, as you have said, having a gun is pretty much N/A.

As for criminal gangs/dissident terrorists etc we have special units for that.

So in my opinion its just too expensive to arm every single Garda on the chance that they may run into a pyscho on a killing spree some day.

But in a perfect world, yes, I think Gardai should be armed. Just not right now with the way the economy is.

In the mean time however, I would have no qualms, if a private training course was setup (at the persons expense) that if a Garda took and passed said course he would be able to purchase and keep his own gun. But I guess that would probably open up a whole other can of worms that we wont get into here

sdanseo · 01-07-2012 6:33pm

bubblypop wrote: »

actually, public order incidents are nowhere near the list where a gun is needed.
you wont see too many armed gardai responding to drunken fights on the street with a gun hanging off them! thankfully they are are more sensible and better trained than that.

Read the post properly please before you rebut something. What I was saying is exactly what you are - that Gardaí will almost never require a gun at a public order incident.

sdeire wrote: »

Agreed and rightly so. I think however the time has come for Gardaí to be routinely armed - public order is pretty much bottom on the list of situations where a gun may be needed.

mikom · 01-07-2012 6:39pm

sdeire wrote: »

Read the post properly please before you rebut something. What I was saying is exactly what you are - that Gardaí will almost never require a gun at a public order incident.

But wearing this seasons latest colours is a requirement it seems....
Fabulous dahling.

sdeire wrote: »

(As an aside, has the patrol jacket been removed entirely? I never see it any more in Dublin and I think it looked extremely well)

audidiesel · 01-07-2012 8:45pm

id much rather a taser than a gun. taser's non lethal and probably wont result in spending months and months under investigation while an incidents being investigated. i carry a gun and am happy to do so but would much prefer the less lethal taser option.

it wont happen though. garda management are so out of touch on the realities of the job at this stage that we will just muddle through with what we have.

also to answer an earlier question, unless its pretty cold or raining, its way to hot to wear a patrol jacket along with the stab vest.

shampon · 01-07-2012 9:03pm

war_child wrote: »

dont think so lad a powder keg is nothing without a fuse its just a threat ..the gun is that fuse which turns the normally dormant powder keg in to a hugely destructive force ....molotov cocktail ...ta da its magic

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rT63Nq2ZTOU

Seriously.

Eru · 01-07-2012 11:26pm

Cuchulainn1. wrote: »

No way should all Guards be armed this is a ludicrous suggestion.

Why? Are all Gardai not entitled to equal protection?

Cuchulainn1. wrote: »

Only guards who have proven their competence time and again and have been promoted to specialist units and higher ranks should have those responsibilities.

They have proven themselves, they have been given the damn badge. Your NOT, I repeat NOT promoted to specialist positions. You apply and you get, that simple. Promotions do not prove one iota that your capable of handling a firearm or even cool under pressure, all it proves is you passed an exam and an interview. Many Sergeant and higher spent little ot no time on the streets walking the beat or in a response car.

I have not been promoted, guess Im not capable of responding to calls. Best leave that to the recently promoted Sergeant in the racial unit who has spent the last 5 years in the JLO office.

Cuchulainn1. wrote: »

I'm sure any Guard on here would agree with that instead of arming every wannabe Will Smith from Ballygobackwards without any prior knowledge of their ability when under pressure and not just stopping a car for no tax as their main experience.

What an incredible insulting view of what your average Garda does. Will ****ing Smith? Stick to Hollywood cops pal because your knowledge of real police work is zero.

war_child wrote: »

@ duiske youd be very surprised what doesnt make it in to the papers ....

Very true, You know where it is guaranteed to be? On the courts.ie public access court outcome and judgement pages. Link to your case there mate.

Mike87 wrote: »

I dont see the point of all garda carrying firearms. It would be far too costly and for what? THis isnt the US we live in. How often do we see/hear of a regular garda been killed after bumping into a weapon carrying maniac.

Mike87 wrote: »

The amount of money we would spend on buying firearms/training would be extremely costly. Think about it for a second.

So Just how many Gardai should be sent to their deaths to save a few quid? As long as its cheaper to bury em than protect them keep going? Is your life more or less valuable euro for euro than mine? How much is spent on hard hats in building sites and would it be cheaper to just bury the odd builder who died from a falling brick? Your speaking about human beings who risk their lives to protect you and all they ask in return is the bloody equipment to do it.

Add to that, how much is spent on bullets for the defence forces? Haven't been at war in a while, maybe they should revert back to swords and pikes?

sdeire wrote: »

They have the sleeves of a Hi-Vis rolled up, or a belt worn externally with all the various pouches pointing different directions, are leaning against a wall etc.

Indeed, it also shows that the comment comes from someone who does NOT have to wear the high vis over body armour, a shirt and a tie in 18, 19 or 20 degrees afternoons. Rolled up sleeves? Were ****ing melting for Christ sake!

Whats the issue with external belts with the various items being held in the correct position to access them? This isnt Hollywood, my belt is not to look pretty or cool, its to carry the items I need to use. As part of that I need to access them fast and that means various positions and various angles.

The wall I don't get at all, what bloody difference does it make? I can honestly say I have never looked at any profession and being effected, insulted or annoyed at how they stood. Please when you join let me know what posts your get put on and if you stood to attention for the full ten hours.

Fair enough its your opinion but one I disagree completely with this time.

Now Im off to the builders section to pass comment on all the arses hanging out, filthy yellow vests thrown about and the amount of money spent on hard hats and boots.

sdanseo · 02-07-2012 12:28am

Eru wrote: »

Why? Are all Gardai not entitled to equal protection?
Indeed, it also shows that the comment comes from someone who does NOT have to wear the high vis over body armour, a shirt and a tie in 18, 19 or 20 degrees afternoons. Rolled up sleeves? Were ****ing melting for Christ sake!

Whats the issue with external belts with the various items being held in the correct position to access them? This isnt Hollywood, my belt is not to look pretty or cool, its to carry the items I need to use. As part of that I need to access them fast and that means various positions and various angles.

The wall I don't get at all, what bloody difference does it make? I can honestly say I have never looked at any profession and being effected, insulted or annoyed at how they stood. Please when you join let me know what posts your get put on and if you stood to attention for the full ten hours.

Fair enough its your opinion but one I disagree completely with this time.

Now Im off to the builders section to pass comment on all the arses hanging out, filthy yellow vests thrown about and the amount of money spent on hard hats and boots.

Sorry, I worded that very badly - what I was getting at is that if the Hi-Vis has to be rolled up (to the point that it my mind, it looks silly) - then management should be providing you guys with short-sleeved ones.

As regards the pouches and all of that - again, a complaint about the uniform, not the Gardaí. I understand that you gotta do what you gotta do to work as effectively as possible. The uniform, though, should adapt to that, not hinder it, and still look like it fits the person wearing it.

I'm aware the uniform is not regulated by the fashion police (pun intended), but it should still, from a public perspective, look the part. If it makes Gardaí look as i said above "slovenly and unprofessional" to me, then it very likely makes them look that way to everyone else. Which is not the impression that should be given by a police force. As regards leaning against the wall - yeah fair enough, I've been in jobs where it's banned outright as they're customer-facing roles and it's nigh on impossible to stand up straight for 8 hours on the trot. But it still wasn't allowed.

My post as a whole was meant to support you guys as professional Gardaí - I have nothing but support for the guys who do their job well, and I don't expect any more from you than any other workers just because you're Cops, because you're public sector sector workers, because "I pay your taxes" - scumbags who pull that line should be shot on the spot - and as I said (presuming I can afford Laser surgery beforehand) I'll be first in line when recruitment re-opens. Sorry if you perceived anything else from my above contribution.

FGR · 02-07-2012 1:36am

bubblypop wrote: »

actually, public order incidents are nowhere near the list where a gun is needed.
you wont see too many armed gardai responding to drunken fights on the street with a gun hanging off them! thankfully they are are more sensible and better trained than that.

The PSNI, Australian Police and many other police forces deal with similar public order issues on a frequent basis and they're all routinely armed.

This argument doesn't hold up imo.

I'd like to see a European standard being set in terms of policing as operational procedures are completely different throughout the continent. I for one would like to see the Tazer becoming standard issue with a general arming of the entire force shortly afterwards.

Mike87 · 02-07-2012 9:43am

So Just how many Gardai should be sent to their deaths to save a few quid? As long as its cheaper to bury em than protect them keep going? Is your life more or less valuable euro for euro than mine? How much is spent on hard hats in building sites and would it be cheaper to just bury the odd builder who died from a falling brick? Your speaking about human beings who risk their lives to protect you and all they ask in return is the bloody equipment to do it.

Well theres a bit of a difference there now isnt there. I can name a few builders that I knew personally who died on sites that could have been saved had they been wearing a hard hat. On the other hand I cant recall hearing/reading about any Garda (anywhere in the country) been murdered, due to been in the wrong place at the wrong time, whilst on the duty.

Add to that, how much is spent on bullets for the defence forces? Haven't been at war in a while, maybe they should revert back to swords and pikes?

Emmm.... I dont know about whereever you live, but around here, (and I see its on boards.ie too)- rarely a week goes by that I dont hear somebody attacking the army saying its a waste of money having them. And guess what one the biggest complaints is- the ammunition bill. So if people arent happy paying for the army's ammunition- then I doubt they're going to be happy about AGS suddenly having a nice new shiny ammunition bill too.

[Deleted User] · 02-07-2012 12:16pm

sdeire wrote: »

Read the post properly please before you rebut something. What I was saying is exactly what you are - that Gardaí will almost never require a gun at a public order incident.

i read it and you are wrong.
gardai will never require a gun at a public order incident.

[Deleted User] · 02-07-2012 12:19pm

FGR wrote: »

The PSNI, Australian Police and many other police forces deal with similar public order issues on a frequent basis and they're all routinely armed.

This argument doesn't hold up imo.

I'd like to see a European standard being set in terms of policing as operational procedures are completely different throughout the continent. I for one would like to see the Tazer becoming standard issue with a general arming of the entire force shortly afterwards.

those police are armed. therefore it stands to reason that they carry firearms to all their calls. including shoplifters, thefts, etc.

what i am saying is public order incidents do not REQUIRE firearms.

frag420 · 02-07-2012 12:33pm

I think we should start with appearance. Look at the uniform. Look at the cops themselves.

Firstly the uniform is not really conducive to chasing down people. It looks uncomnfortabel and having spoken to several members including three friends it is uncomfortable. A pair of bulky shoes, nice ironed slacks, wooly jumper, blue shirt, big jackets, utility belt, hat etc. A guy in crutches could outrun someone wearing that. Why not give them comfortable shoes that are condicive to running, combat style pants, fitted sweater, body warmer with extra pockets for utilities and a peaked hat. Similar to their colleagues oin the UK. The cops here look out dated and soft.

Secondly how many cops have I seen that are just unfit. There is no point having a nice uniform if you cant run. Older cops especially. Now I stress its not all of them but again I see some serious overweight gards plodding along the streets. Is there no minimum fitness test for them that must be maintained annually??

I think once this has been addressed then we can look at giving them guns but as its stands we need to start with baby steps eh!!

Zambia · 02-07-2012 2:28pm

FGR wrote: »

The PSNI, Australian Police and many other police forces deal with similar public order issues on a frequent basis and they're all routinely armed.

This argument doesn't hold up imo.

Most Australian cops remove the firearm at Public Order events.

See below empty/absent Holsters

At sporting events the cops are also not armed.

Witcher · 02-07-2012 3:31pm

I think the training is one of the biggest issues, how do you train 14,000 Gardai how to use a firearm..seems simple but;

What about those who joined because they weren't an armed force, don't want a gun and refuse to carry one?

What if Garda X was just incapable of using a firearm correctly i.e safely/accurately?

What about Gardai that are pistol shooters outside of their job..how do you change them into combat shooters? What if they have developed a flinch from shooting before? Do we have people qualified to correct that?

It's the finer points like these that are key not whether the DOJ can afford 14,000 Glock pistols that they would get a substantial discount on anyway.

war_child · 02-07-2012 5:08pm

@ Tampon ..oh sorry i mean shampon ...back off, eh!!!!! How about no ...see we can both resort to childish slagging ...if ya dont like what i have to say then dont read it ...if you cant conduct yourself in an Adult manner then you shouldnt be allowed play with big boy toys ...and if you cant be involved in a civilised debate without resorting to childish behaviour dont stepup ...

Now back to your mothers basement with you .....

Eru · 02-07-2012 6:01pm

Mike87 wrote: »

Emmm.... I dont know about whereever you live, but around here, (and I see its on boards.ie too)- rarely a week goes by that I dont hear somebody attacking the army saying its a waste of money having them. And guess what one the biggest complaints is- the ammunition bill. So if people arent happy paying for the army's ammunition- then I doubt they're going to be happy about AGS suddenly having a nice new shiny ammunition bill too.

What the begrudging people around your area think does not concern me. I will never require the dole, do I begrudge paying tax for it?

Mike87 wrote: »

Well theres a bit of a difference there now isnt there. I can name a few builders that I knew personally who died on sites that could have been saved had they been wearing a hard hat. On the other hand I cant recall hearing/reading about any Garda (anywhere in the country) been murdered, due to been in the wrong place at the wrong time, whilst on the duty.

Can you name a few Gardai who were killed for being in the right place at the right time then? I'm sorry you dont read much but your ignorance on a subject is hardly a good reason to allow Gardai be killed. Perhaps these cases should be clear enough for you, remembering that they are not the only ones.

ESF memorial section wrote:

Sergeant Patrick Joseph Acquinas Morrissey, (14545),
Collon, Co. Louth.

Sergeant Patrick Joseph Acquinas Morrissey was shot dead in pursuit of two armed men who had made an abortive raid on a post office at Collon, Co. Louth on 27.06.1985

ESF memorial section wrote:

Garda Patrick Gerald Reynolds, (21281),
Tallaght.

Garda Reynolds was in a party surrounding premises suspected as a hiding place for stolen property when he was shot dead.

ESF memorial section wrote:

Garda James Quaid, (13497),
Wexford Town.

Shot dead at Ballyconnick, Co. Wexford, attempting to arrest a wanted man on 13.10.1980.

ESF memorial section wrote:

Garda Henry Gerrard Byrne, (18300),
Castlerea, Co. Roscommon.

Garda John Francis Morley and Garda Henry Gerard Byrne were shot and fatally injured at Aghaderry, Co. Roscommon, in pursuit of armed bank robbers on 07.07.1980

Had any of them especially Sergeant Morrisey and Garda Reynolds been armed they could have protected themselves instead of being slaughtered where they stood. I wonder if Sergeant Morrisey as the barrel was put to his head accepted his life wasnt worth the price of the bullet used to kill him.

Zambia wrote: »

Most Australian cops remove the firearm at Public Order events.

See below empty/absent Holsters

At sporting events the cops are also not armed.

I might be going blind but the cop nearest the photo taker appears to have something in his holster.

also at sporting events I believe its only the public order / riot units that are not armed because they are for in close large crowds which a firearm would not suit for obvious reasons.

sd,
Fair enough.

Mike87 · 02-07-2012 7:26pm

What the begrudging people around your area think does not concern me. I will never require the dole, do I begrudge paying tax for it?

It doesnt matter what you think of the majority of peoples attitudes. But let me assure you, if the majority of the country support armed Gardai then its more likely to happen then if the vast majority are against it. So it would suit you better to start caring about what all these "begrudgers" think and try to work with them and not just accuse them of been ignorant. Or is that too much too ask?

Can you name a few Gardai who were killed for being in the right place at the right time then? I'm sorry you dont read much but your ignorance on a subject is hardly a good reason to allow Gardai be killed. Perhaps these cases should be clear enough for you, remembering that they are not the only ones.

Its funny, most of those cases you cited are nearly 30 years old when the IRA were out robbing banks left right and center. But regardless, it tells us something... 30 years ago Gardai were getting killed a dime a dozen. Now they arent. Or perhaps you just deliberatly left out all the recent examples of Gardai killed on duty during say... the last 8 years?

Locust · 02-07-2012 8:34pm

Armed Police with High Viz

british-paramilitary-police-attack-demonstration-belfast-ireland.jpg

Police dealing with public order - everyone of them carrying a 9mm Glock pistol

Whats the big deal? Armed = Better Trained/Disciplined Police / Not Armed = Undisciplined and ill-equipped...

source · 02-07-2012 9:24pm

Mike87 wrote: »

Its funny, most of those cases you cited are nearly 30 years old when the IRA were out robbing banks left right and center. But regardless, it tells us something... 30 years ago Gardai were getting killed a dime a dozen. Now they arent. Or perhaps you just deliberatly left out all the recent examples of Gardai killed on duty during say... the last 8 years?

1995

2007

2010

2012

These weren't killed, but they were shooting incidents relating where Gardai were powerless to defend themselves and the general public because they were unarmed. Every worker needs their toolbox, why we think that we can perform the job without the right tool when other police forces around the world wouldn't leave the station without their firearm I'll never understand.

In 1922, when Michael Staines said: "The Garda Síochána will succeed not by force of arms or numbers, but on their moral authority as servants of the people."

This was a different era, the country was just out of a civil war and the thought of armed police made people nervous, and brought memories of the very recent occupation of the country by the British.

We're now in a situation where scumbags are walking around with AK47s and Glock pistols, and the Gardai sent to deal with them have batons and pepper spray. The people of Ireland should be disgusted with this, not complaining about the cost of bullets.

Edit: there's some very ill informed persons on here making some sweeping generalisations about an organization they know very little about. You shouldn't put down something you don't understand.

goldie fish · 02-07-2012 10:44pm

Source, its OK, gardai aren't getting killed, so they are in no danger....

Or it could be that management, and the common sense on of individual gardai, are no longer putting them in situations where they may get killed, leaving the force powerless to protect the public from gun crime.

How many irish citizens have been killed by a firearm in the last 10 years?

SweetCaliber · 02-07-2012 10:47pm

It's disgraceful these days.

With the rise of drugs in Ireland, anyone can be called to check out something which may relate to drugs. And more dealers like to keep their stock and will do anything to protect it.

Our police aren't Jack Bauer's and only carry a batton. That against a gun?

Mike87 · 02-07-2012 11:27pm

source wrote: »

1995

2007

2010

2012

These weren't killed, but they were shooting incidents relating where Gardai were powerless to defend themselves and the general public because they were unarmed. Every worker needs their toolbox, why we think that we can perform the job without the right tool when other police forces around the world wouldn't leave the station without their firearm I'll never understand.

In 1922, when Michael Staines said: "The Garda Síochána will succeed not by force of arms or numbers, but on their moral authority as servants of the people."

This was a different era, the country was just out of a civil war and the thought of armed police made people nervous, and brought memories of the very recent occupation of the country by the British.

We're now in a situation where scumbags are walking around with AK47s and Glock pistols, and the Gardai sent to deal with them have batons and pepper spray. The people of Ireland should be disgusted with this, not complaining about the cost of bullets.

Edit: there's some very ill informed persons on here making some sweeping generalisations about an organization they know very little about. You shouldn't put down something you don't understand.

Even after fixing all your broken links not one of them led to a story? THey all lead to various pages mostly saying the article has since been removed or cant be found

As for "why we think that we can perform the job without the right tool" Im not opposing AGS having pistols. My point is this, going on the incidents and years you gave in those links (from 1995-present) in a 17 years stretch there has been 4 incidents (and not a single life lost) where having AGS armed would have been a good thing.

I see someone said there is about 4000 AGS in this country. So supposing your using 9mm, and supposing your buying it for about half the price civilians pay its still working out around 6 million a year in ammo bills alone. And thats before you even buy the guns/build facilities/and train all Gardai. Can our country, debt ridden as it is, justify cutting social welfare/pension/college grants etc and then hand out millions on arming AGS?

Theres alot of people been called ignorant if they oppose AGS been armed. But so far the only justification I can see on this thread for AGS been armed is that in the last 17 years there have been 4 close calls.

Heres a question for ya, (it might help inform some of us thick ignorants)

Assuming your a regular Garda, what part of a Garda's weekly job does he feel incompetent/unsafe carrying out due to not having a firearm (and please dont just tell us about how LE is run in other countries).

CB19Kevo · 03-07-2012 12:02am

I dont believe arming all members is a viable route at current as :
>There are far higher items on the agenda - better cars,uniform,training
>I and i can guess much of the public would prefer there local beat gaurds not armed
> It puts pressure on Guards who would not wish to use a firearm to carry one.
> The assesment and continious training could be an issue.

outside of this i think that when breaking up street fights or any public order issues the firearm could be more of a problem than anything else.

What i would like to see is a UK style approach.
Increased ASU's avalible to all divisions and taser officers in each district.

I would rather see fully trained and well equipped Armed support officers tackle a armed suspect than having beat officers place themselves in danger..

Zambia · 03-07-2012 12:18am

ERU that's a MK 9 foam Canister in there.

POGAN · 03-07-2012 12:20am

CB19Kevo wrote: »

I dont believe arming all members is a viable route at current as :
>There are far higher items on the agenda - better cars,uniform,training
>I and i can guess much of the public would prefer there local beat gaurds not armed
> It puts pressure on Guards who would not wish to use a firearm to carry one.
> The assesment and continious training could be an issue.

outside of this i think that when breaking up street fights or any public order issues the firearm could be more of a problem than anything else.

What i would like to see is a UK style approach.
Increased ASU's avalible to all divisions and taser officers in each district.

I would rather see fully trained and well equipped Armed support officers tackle a armed suspect than having beat officers place themselves in danger..

I agree, Garda regional support units would of being expanded if downturn and cut back and lack of recuirment. But at the moment totally lack of cars is a problem.

There still is talks of taken the guns off the d/o's already.

They have eroded all the great work traffic corp have done over the years, lack of cars, lack of members,

In the short term, I think traffic should be issued tazers with there high standard of driving it's working in the uk why not here

Oh wait.... Ten years for tetra, pepper spray and anpr so it will 2025

audidiesel · 03-07-2012 4:12am

every regular guard should at the very least be issued with tasers. they are the first to respond to the vast majority of calls.

arming the entire force is a complicated topic. there are definately a number of pros and cons to it. the idea of an unarmed force being able to deal with predominantly armed criminals is however flawed.

the ideal solution is to have an increased amount of guards available that are authorised to carry firearms when necessary. there are not nearly enough available at the moment and the numbers available are being slashed not increased. sure they wont even give out ballistic vests to guards. even those who carry firearms.

tasers will come in eventually. probably not for another 4-5 years though after several guards get seriously hurt. following that within 10-15 years it will be an fully armed force.

each subsequent generation is getting more and more violent as they go on so the above is inevitable.

a higher priority for the majority of guards at the moment would be actually suppling half decent cars. the transport system is litreally on the brink of collapse throughout the country at the moment.

Eru · 03-07-2012 2:39pm

CB19Kevo wrote: »

>I and i can guess much of the public would prefer there local beat gaurds not armed

The rest of your post if fair enough but let me ask you, do you think much of the public would rather not be the victim of crime? Would prefer that Gardai need not carry firearms in the first place?

Of course they would, what people want doesn't always tie in with what people need. Most Gardai arent itching to get a Glock and most consider it a sad reflection on modern times that we feel the need to abandon the history of being unarmed but what we WANT and what we NEED are now conflicting.

The very simple reality here is that tonight at 4am anyone with a firearm can reap absolute havoc and kill dozens if not hundreds of people depending on location. The chances of an armed Garda being close to the scene is remote, even in Dublin its not a common event for an armed officer to be in a district at 4am. RSU? theres what maybe 4 or 5 of them in the country? ERU for Dublin? Dublin's a bloody big place and it takes time to get them mobile. Detectives? Only some carry a firearm and dont work 24/7 anyway.

Thats the simple reality as it stands in this country.

Zambia wrote: »

ERU that's a MK 9 foam Canister in there.

In the right side? I am blind

Gardai carrying Guns

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