Formula 1 2014: Round 12 - Belgian Grand Prix

Ghost Train · 25-08-2014 8:31pm

Think Lewis would have been better off not commenting on the meeting, uses it to have a go at Nico and didn't add much.

Lewis had the support of the team... but then he uses what was said in meeting to have a moan about Nico, Toto comes out and defends Nico to a certain extent saying "So they agreed to disagree in a very heated discussion amongst ourselves, but it wasn't deliberately crashing. That is nonsense."

Would kind of be funny now if Mercedes started using a few more team orders that ended up helping Nico secure the title... hopefully they'll still let them race

cadaliac · 25-08-2014 8:45pm

I can't see them being told to race as per "normal" any more. Maybe the info to the media might well be that there are no team orders but Toto doesn't strike me as the type to let things get out of hand in the Merc camp. I'd say Nico has achieved 2 things, whether he meant to or not....
1 - make Lewis think a second time before slamming the door and keeping the racing line when he is there and
2- invoked team orders.

The incident is done and dusted now but will that be playing in Hamiltons head when they both barge for the first corner in Monza? Will it have an effect?
The second point is that there are too many points to be dropped/won by two drivers on the one team. Its going to take team orders to keep both of them from tangling again but whether or not they will be obeyed is another argument.
Roll on Monza.

Autosport · 25-08-2014 8:56pm

Bring on Monza, going to be exciting to say the least

I for one don't want team orders brought back as it ruins racing

Corben Dallas · 25-08-2014 9:34pm

Rosberg is to blame for the incident, no doubt, left his nose in (holding his line – he has even said as much) and Lewis took racing line and got an insta-puncture, which effectively ended his race (because of damage from the tyre to his floor and time lost due to 3 mile drive back to pits.)

Rosberg seems to forget that the driver in front controls the racing line not the driver behind, he maybe should have got a penalty for this during the race. (tho the stewards are trying to let the drivers sort it on track)

Toto Wolff/Niki and Merc management seem to be hacked off that Nico cost them the win and caused their other car to retire. (effectively but not immediately) Both drivers have been told they can race but don’t take your team-mate out.

This incident is probably going to end the 'let them race' policy and will bring in some strict team orders, like race only after first pit stops, no do or die “knife between the teeth” overtakes for the first 5 laps, or hold positions when one driver is clearly ahead till the end of the race.

Anyone remember Schumi & Hill banging wheels (mainly Schumi doing the banging) same corner good few years ago?

Clever race again by Riciardo, got to the front and stayed there. Kimi starting showing the pace to push for podiums. Bottas got his now usual podium, had hoped the Williams would have show more outright pace compared to the Mercs.

Is Vettel going to win a race this year? Starting to be overshadowed consistently by his team-mate.

Magnasson pushed Button totally off track at Rivage, then did the same to Alonso a lap later, reports have said that the 20sec penalty (given after the race) was for forcing Alonso onto the grass on the Straight (>Kemel) if that is correct then it’s stepping over the mark and he could be facing race bans if he continues to drive like this.

Seem to recall he took Massa out first corner in Germany?

christy c · 25-08-2014 10:02pm

Corben Dallas wrote: »

Seem to recall he took Massa out first corner in Germany?

Don't mention the war! Can't remember if it was here or another site but there were pages upon pages of discussion. 50:50 for me, both at fault

Oblomov · 25-08-2014 10:10pm

Lauda's comments on leaving the meeting did not clarify the situation or the outcome of the meeting.

Then Hamilton only adds to the confusion. The claims of Rosberg being in his "blind spot". OK, as the contact was on extreme corners of left rear and right front. Rusberg was to one side of Hamilton. The rear view mirrors are of specific dimensions and fixed viewpoint. Hmmmm

During the media interview with Hamilton, a reporter comments that Hamilton had said Rosberg had apologised, which Hamilton immediately corrected.

The Sky interviews of Hamilton and Rosberg, the stark difference in the questions between the two drivers. The almost demeaning questions to Rosberg yet complete opposite for Hamilton. No wonder there is the animosity towards Rosberg. Who rightly states the fans should be aware of the rule book.

beanie10 · 25-08-2014 10:45pm

I find it remarkable that nobody has mentioned that Hamilton put in a fastest lap in his first complete lap after getting the puncture replaced.
This leads me to believe that maybe his car was not as damaged as Hamilton stated.
How did he go from putting in that fastest lap to struggling in mid field in a car that is 2 seconds faster than closest rival.
Is this just more mind games and toy throwing from Hamilton?

v3ttel · 25-08-2014 11:20pm

Gillespy wrote: »

A Merc spokesperson said Hamilton's story was 'broadly accurate'.

This is what Tota said.
SSN reports that the Mercedes boss has confirmed Rosberg acknowledged "he could have avoided crashing but didn’t [in order to] make a point.”

Nothing there makes a liar out of Hamilton.

http://www1.skysports.com/f1/report/12472/9438702/toto-wolff-denies-nico-rosberg-crashed-on-purpose-but-admits-he-was-proving-point

Again, I fail to see how "Nico said he hit me deliberately" is corroborated by Toto saying "it wasn't deliberately crashing. That is nonsense" as per your earlier post. I can not understand how somebody can read those to comments and think they are not contradictory. It's completely incomprehensible unless you have somehow misread them or are a ridiculously biased fan of Lewis?

Also, there is a very big distinction between holding your line and feeling you are entitled to some space, and saying "I hit you on purpose".

If Rosborg thought he thought he was entitled to space is 100% wrong. Hamilton had the racing line and Rosborg should have backed off. However, Hamilton misrepresenting the comments in the meeting is also completely out of order. I feel Lewis would have been better off keeping his council and allowing the team to deal with it, rather than trying to stir the pot.

Frankie Lee · 25-08-2014 11:25pm

beanie10 wrote: »

I find it remarkable that nobody has mentioned that Hamilton put in a fastest lap in his first complete lap after getting the puncture replaced.
This leads me to believe that maybe his car was not as damaged as Hamilton stated.
How did he go from putting in that fastest lap to struggling in mid field in a car that is 2 seconds faster than closest rival.
Is this just more mind games and toy throwing from Hamilton?

Mercedes were not 2 seconds a lap quicker in the dry however and when he didn't tear through the field he lost heart fairly quick.

Gillespy · 25-08-2014 11:37pm

v3ttel wrote: »

Again, I fail to see how "Nico said he hit me deliberately" is corroborated by Toto saying "it wasn't deliberately crashing. That is nonsense" as per your earlier post. I can not understand how somebody can read those to comments and think they are not contradictory. It's completely incomprehensible unless you have somehow misread them or are a ridiculously biased fan of Lewis?

Also, there is a very big distinction between holding your line and feeling you are entitled to some space, and saying "I hit you on purpose".

If Rosborg thought he thought he was entitled to space is 100% wrong. Hamilton had the racing line and Rosborg should have backed off. However, Hamilton misrepresenting the comments in the meeting is also completely out of order. I feel Lewis would have been better off keeping his council and allowing the team to deal with it, rather than trying to stir the pot.

You're right, there is a contradiction there. But also in what Toto said. ''it wasn't deliberately crashing. That is nonsense'' and the bit from the Sky link "he could have avoided crashing but didn’t [in order to] make a point.” Now, some believe neither back up Hamilton but I think the latter does. There is also the broadly accurate comment.

Killinator · 25-08-2014 11:49pm

v3ttel wrote: »

Again, I fail to see how "Nico said he hit me deliberately" is corroborated by Toto saying "it wasn't deliberately crashing. That is nonsense" as per your earlier post. I can not understand how somebody can read those to comments and think they are not contradictory. It's completely incomprehensible unless you have somehow misread them or are a ridiculously biased fan of Lewis?

Also, there is a very big distinction between holding your line and feeling you are entitled to some space, and saying "I hit you on purpose".

If Rosborg thought he thought he was entitled to space is 100% wrong. Hamilton had the racing line and Rosborg should have backed off. However, Hamilton misrepresenting the comments in the meeting is also completely out of order. I feel Lewis would have been better off keeping his council and allowing the team to deal with it, rather than trying to stir the pot.

I assume he gained alot from having brand new tyres, but that advantage disappeared pretty quickly due to the damage on the car which would have increased ware on the tyres beyond the normal.

Frank Bullitt · 26-08-2014 12:08am

Killinator wrote: »

I assume he gained alot from having brand new tyres, but that advantage disappeared pretty quickly due to the damage on the car which would have increased ware on the tyres beyond the normal.

Wasn't everyone on new tyres because of the wet qualy?

Frank Bullitt · 26-08-2014 12:50am

Oblomov wrote: »

Rosberg also avoids making any derogatory remarks about Hamilton, even to the point that he downplays possible conflict. Most noticaable when asked about Hamilton, his response was to state they had known each other for years and after short period they would be talking to each other again.

Hamilton is the more media savvy of the two. Part of the training under Ron Dennis franchise, the complete media package schooled in both what to say and how to say it.

Rosberg comes across as the unassuming methodical driver, even in the Ice Bucket challenge, the two buckets were emptied over him, slight shrug and carried on as normal. The BBC pundits have stated that anyone who knows Rosberg personally says he is a good guy. His lifestyle is very low key in comparison with Hamilton. Rosberg seems to avoid the glare of publicity whereas Hamilton seeks and needs the glare of media attention. Almost wanting to be liked.

Tweeting the data comparing his car to Buttons a few years ago wasn't very savvy. I think Hamilton needs to speak more in public for himself, weather its the media just broadcasting him more than others or what, it almost seems like he needs the attention. Its not like the Lewis from a few years ago.

Corben Dallas · 26-08-2014 12:51am

Wasn't everyone on new tyres because of the wet qualy?

Hamilton was first to pit (Lap 3) because of puncture, normal pit windows would'nt start happening until 13 at the earliest.

Myrddin · 26-08-2014 8:21am

beanie10 wrote: »

I find it remarkable that nobody has mentioned that Hamilton put in a fastest lap in his first complete lap after getting the puncture replaced.
This leads me to believe that maybe his car was not as damaged as Hamilton stated.
How did he go from putting in that fastest lap to struggling in mid field in a car that is 2 seconds faster than closest rival.
Is this just more mind games and toy throwing from Hamilton?

Brand new tires
Strategy out the window, so in all likelihood was pushing harder than everyone else
Nico as the race leader had a damaged front wing
Then his messed up aero caused pre mature wear
The other cars were burning off fuel & getting lighter
Other cars strategies meant they were now pushing

Oblomov · 26-08-2014 8:49am

When Rosberg had his contract extended and Hamilton was jumping up and down wanting his extended, did anything happen?

Jenson Button is now quoted as taking Hamilton's side.

walshb · 26-08-2014 11:06am

I didn't catch all the details, but after the 2nd lap collision did Lewis' car and Nico's car have defects for the rest of the race because of the collision? Were the defects not fixable in a manner that could allow them both to challenge for the race?

mickdw · 26-08-2014 11:22am

OSI wrote: »

Rosberg's front wing was damaged, and subsequently replaced at the first pit stop. The tyre carcass caused massive damage to Hamilton's floor, which can't be replaced during the race and pretty much ruined his aero set up.

Hamilton arguably caused the floor damage himself by driving too fast back to the pits.
Far too much being made of this.
Hamilton in the past has cut nico up running him off the track in borderline circumstances.
I don't think it was a bad idea to let Hamilton know that he was there. Will Make Hamilton more wary next time so can only play to Rosbergs advantage in the long run.
History suggests that all this crap blows over a
but the name on the trophy is remembered.

walshb · 26-08-2014 11:42am

OSI wrote: »

Rosberg's front wing was damaged, and subsequently replaced at the first pit stop. The tyre carcass caused massive damage to Hamilton's floor, which can't be replaced during the race and pretty much ruined his aero set up.

I thought that Nico's fix wasn't great, in that he was having aero issues throughout the race. Is this true?

thirteen. · 26-08-2014 11:45am

walshb wrote: »

I thought that Nico's fix wasn't great, in that he was having aero issues throughout the race. Is this true?

He damaged his front wing and then had it replaced. Unless he also damaged another part of the car in the contact with Lewis then he shouldn't have had any aero issues.

Larbre34 · 26-08-2014 2:14pm

OSI wrote: »

Rosberg's front wing was damaged, and subsequently replaced at the first pit stop. The tyre carcass caused massive damage to Hamilton's floor, which can't be replaced during the race and pretty much ruined his aero set up.

His tyre debris ruined Massa's day as well according to Claire Williams, they have reason to be aggrieved also.

Infoanon · 26-08-2014 7:36pm

Larbre34 wrote: »

His tyre debris ruined Massa's day as well according to Claire Williams, they have reason to be aggrieved also.

Made worse by the fact that Williams didn't remove the debris on the first stop, once the debris was removed Massa was 2 seconds a lap quicker.

Frank Bullitt · 26-08-2014 7:45pm

Where was the debris lodged?

Infoanon · 26-08-2014 7:46pm

Gintonious wrote: »

Where was the debris lodged?

In the floor.

Oblomov · 26-08-2014 11:20pm

Hanilton states he will not retaliate after FIA take no action.

An FIA spokesman told BBC Sport: "The FIA will not intervene in this issue.
"Only a 'new element' that would have appeared after the results became final could justify us opening an investigation.
"A comment alleged to have been made in an internal briefing and later denied by the team itself does not constitute such a 'new element'."

Formula 1 2014: Round 12 - Belgian Grand Prix

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