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Virgin Media subscriber numbers

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13567…12

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    #62
    Damien360
    Registered Users Posts: 6,250 ✭✭✭Damien360


    JTMan wrote: »
    Absolutely, TV is trending away from bundled TV packages towards unbundled streaming solutions. Specifically, TV is trending towards online piracy solutions and OTT solutions such as NetFlix. UPC looses on both counts.

    Is that true. What are the figures for sky new subscriptions in that same period. The Upc TV box is awful. If they changed the box then they would have a winning combo.


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    #63
    SpaceTime
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    I suspect they could possibly change the box, especially if it's proving to be problematic. Or, it might be due a major software overhaul.

    As of February 2015, UPC Broadband Ltd (UPC Ireland) was 'extracted' from the UPC NL BV credit pool and put into the Virgin Media UK credit pool.

    So, effectively UPC Ireland is now part of Virgin Media.

    Operationally speaking, they might start to move UPC Ireland over to whatever Virgin Media UK is moved over to in the coming months. This could mean 'bye bye horizon' and 'hello TiVo.'

    Or, it could mean 'bye-bye TiVo' in the UK and 'hello Horizon 2.0' in both markets...

    I suspect they are likely to ditch the Virgin Media brand as it's something they're paying a royalty to Branson to use rather than a brand they own outright.

    I wouldn't be surprised if they just rebrand as "Liberty Media" using a version of the UPC branding (see: www.libertyglobal.com ) and you'll get an idea of how the brand might look - basically freshened up version of UPC.

    UPC NL is now gone too. They purchased Ziggo (another major Dutch provider with a stronger brand) and they've decided to extract UPC NL out of the UPC Holding BV group and create a new Ziggo Group.

    That just leave Telenet (Belgium) and KableBV in Germany as the only non-UPC bits left in Europe.

    I'd say they might do something like focus UPC on their Eastern European markets where it's a strong trademark.


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    #64
    JTMan
    Registered Users Posts: 5,535 ✭✭✭JTMan


    Damien360 wrote: »
    Is that true. What are the figures for sky new subscriptions in that same period. The Upc TV box is awful. If they changed the box then they would have a winning combo.

    Sky added a 760,000 broadband subs and 46,000 TV subs in the last reporting quarter in the UK and Ireland. TV is still growing for Sky, albeit at a significantly slower rate than it once did. Also, like with UPC, broadband subs are now the engine of growth.

    One can not look at Sky TV subs in isolation to put forward a counter argument that OTT and piracy are not killing TV subs. The rapid growth in Netflix subs, the rapid growth of XBMC/Kodi and other forms of piracy, the ongoing trend towards cord cutting in the US and other developed markets are bigger picture drivers of the clear trend away from TV subs.


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    #65
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,463 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    JTMan wrote: »
    Sky added a 760,000 broadband subs and 46,000 TV subs in the last reporting quarter in the UK and Ireland. TV is still growing for Sky, albeit at a significantly slower rate than it once did. Also, like with UPC, broadband subs are now the engine of growth.

    Yup, you also see that Sky is desperately trying to hold onto TV subs by giving significant discounts and even completely free TV for a few months to cord cutters.

    They might be keeping up their sub numbers, but it is cost them a great deal to do so and I don't see it getting anything but worse.

    While Sky's broadband subs are also increasing, it should be kept in mind that they are simply reselling BT (in the UK) and Eircoms (here in Ireland) ADSL and VDSL services.

    They don't actually have their own last mile network. That makes this a pretty low margin business. MUCH lower margin then their TV business. So this doesn't really help make up for the lose of TV services, like it does for UPC.

    I expect UPC actually makes more money from it's broadband only customers, then it does from TV only customers at this stage. That is why they are so focused on broadband now.

    While Sky has a powerful brand and is an expert marketing firm. I think they actually look like they are in a pretty weak position in the market, given the way things are going. I think they could be left out in this game of musical chairs and could become significantly less important over the coming years.


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    #66
    SpaceTime
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    UPC's main problem is their set top box. Horizon seems to be pretty but very difficult to use.

    Hopefully the Virgin Media connection might bring something new to the table as Tivo or Horizon 2


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    #67
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,479 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    UPC Q1 2015 numbers published today (in brackets, quarter on quarter +/-)
    http://www.libertyglobal.com/pdf/press-release/Liberty-Global-Earnings-Release-Q1-15-FINAL.pdf

    Video Subscribers - 386,500 (-17,000)
    --- Analogue Cable - 37,500 (-2,600)
    --- Digital Cable - 321,500 (-11,700)
    --- MMDS - 27,500 (-2,700)
    Internet - 365,800 (+2,400)
    Telephone - 349,600 (+3,500)

    Total Subscribers - 1,101,900 (-9,300)

    Premises - 511,800 (-7,200)

    From the report
    - Underperformance in Germany, the Netherlands and Ireland drove majority of variance
    - Our 9,000 RGU loss in Ireland was due in part to increased competition.


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    #68
    SpaceTime
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    The Cush wrote: »
    UPC Q1 2015 numbers published today (in brackets, quarter on quarter +/-)
    http://www.libertyglobal.com/pdf/press-release/Liberty-Global-Earnings-Release-Q1-15-FINAL.pdf

    Video Subscribers - 386,500 (-17,000)
    --- Analogue Cable - 37,500 (-2,600)
    --- Digital Cable - 321,500 (-11,700)
    --- MMDS - 27,500 (-2,700)
    Internet - 365,800 (+2,400)
    Telephone - 349,600 (+3,500)

    Total Subscribers - 1,101,900 (-9,300)

    Premises - 511,800 (-7,200)

    From the report
    - Underperformance in Germany, the Netherlands and Ireland drove majority of variance
    - Our 9,000 RGU loss in Ireland was due in part to increased competition.

    In part?! Lol
    Their TV offering is being hamstrung by Horizon. It's all bells and whistles but it's less usable than Sky.

    This is a much tougher TV market because Sky is probably the world's most successful direct to home satellite operator.

    Upc also treated customers to a price increase in January. Seems kind of strange given the market.


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    #69
    JTMan
    Registered Users Posts: 5,535 ✭✭✭JTMan


    The Cush wrote: »
    UPC Q1 2015 numbers published today (in brackets, quarter on quarter +/-)
    http://www.libertyglobal.com/pdf/press-release/Liberty-Global-Earnings-Release-Q1-15-FINAL.pdf

    Video Subscribers - 386,500 (-17,000)
    --- Analogue Cable - 37,500 (-2,600)
    --- Digital Cable - 321,500 (-11,700)
    --- MMDS - 27,500 (-2,700)
    Internet - 365,800 (+2,400)
    Telephone - 349,600 (+3,500)

    Total Subscribers - 1,101,900 (-9,300)

    Premises - 511,800 (-7,200)

    From the report
    - Underperformance in Germany, the Netherlands and Ireland drove majority of variance
    - Our 9,000 RGU loss in Ireland was due in part to increased competition.

    Thanks for posting.

    Some thoughts:
    • Analogue Cable declining rapidly on a percentage basis YoY.
    • Digital Cable has been hit badly too. More evidence of cord cutting on streaming starting to effect cable TV. The price increase has no doubt cost UPC subscribers too.
    • MMDS rapidly declining.
    • Internet showing slow growth. Very poor for UPC's core product.
    • Landlines showing growth thanks to forced bundles.

    Overall a dreadful set of results for UPC. UPC might think twice before increasing prices again.


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    #70
    Joo0
    Registered Users Posts: 417 ✭✭Joo0


    When MMDS is cut off next year that's a loss of another 28,000 customers


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    #71
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,479 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Joo0 wrote: »
    When MMDS is cut off next year that's a loss of another 28,000 customers

    By that time there should be less than 20,000 MMDS subscribers, based on that rate of decline. That figure may also include MMDS fed cable systems.

    I see UPC are upgrading Ashbourne, Donabate, Lusk and Ratoath this month, I wonder if any of these were MMDS fed areas?

    Also there was a question on the ending of MMDS on the UPC talk to forum a day or 2 ago which the reps appeared to ignore - http://www.boards.ie/ttfthread/2057425931. Are they still selling MMDS subs?


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    #72
    Joo0
    Registered Users Posts: 417 ✭✭Joo0


    Yeh indeed, does anyone know how Sky are doing TV subscriber wise?


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    #73
    swoofer
    Registered Users Posts: 5,410 ✭✭✭swoofer


    this from the indo

    http://www.independent.ie/business/technology/news/upc-sees-big-switchoff-in-its-irish-tv-business-31207478.html


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    #74
    JTMan
    Registered Users Posts: 5,535 ✭✭✭JTMan


    swoofer wrote: »
    this from the indo

    http://www.independent.ie/business/technology/news/upc-sees-big-switchoff-in-its-irish-tv-business-31207478.html

    Very interesting that 9% of UPC's TV customers have deserted in the last year. 36,000 customers ditched UPC TV. A whopping loss. UPC are blaming "increased competition" for the "under-performance" of UPC Ireland and "negative impact on the accounts".


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    #75
    7upfree
    Registered Users Posts: 2,124 ✭✭✭7upfree


    Nobody talking about the elephant in the room, which is also decimating numbers. And can't be discussed here.


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    #76
    JTMan
    Registered Users Posts: 5,535 ✭✭✭JTMan


    Yeah, piracy is often an unreported factor.

    Difficult to tell which of the following is the biggest factor in the UPC decline: the UPC price increase, piracy, Sky competition, Eircom competition, free-to-air satellite competition or online streaming competition. All these factors are playing a role in the UPC TV decline.


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    #77
    onform
    Registered Users Posts: 472 ✭✭onform


    Oh piracy is the issue that can't be discussed... I thought it was the Craig Doyle TV ads... ;-)


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    #78
    Infoanon
    Registered Users Posts: 4,619 ✭✭✭Infoanon


    onform wrote: »
    Oh piracy is the issue that can't be discussed... I thought it was the Craig Doyle TV ads... ;-)

    I thought it was the Horizon box....

    Price increases and increasing customer dissatisfaction are two of the main reasons for the fall in numbers,it will be interesting to see how many of these viewers are been picked up by Sky.


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    #79
    onform
    Registered Users Posts: 472 ✭✭onform


    Infoanon wrote: »
    I thought it was the Horizon box....

    Price increases and increasing customer dissatisfaction are two of the main reasons for the fall in numbers,it will be interesting to see how many of these viewers are been picked up by Sky.

    I'm one of the UPC customers gone to Sky. Comparing the too, It's plain to see that Sky have invested much more money in their TV product. UPCs future must lie in developing a TV service aimed at the UK and Ireland, even if that means scrapping Horizon and offering eg. the Tivo box. I hope this loss of customers gives UPC a bit of a kick in the ar$e as it would be better to have a competitive market, instead of Sky becoming a monopoly.


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    #80
    aphex™
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,338 ✭✭✭aphex™


    I believe UPC internet is inferior to other offerings as other ISPs have better connectivity to AKAMI, Google, Youtube, Amazon AWS, Netflix etc., Twitch.tv etc.

    In that, they have elected not to connect directly to these offerings.

    You can see people complain on their forum about connectivity to these types of services every week.

    I would prefer to sign up to an ISP like Vodafone on 100mb than UPC 240mb for the above reasons.

    So, net neutrality is another issue you can't mention


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    #81
    Joo0
    Registered Users Posts: 417 ✭✭Joo0


    I'd say Horizon and price increases would be the main reason for the drop in subscribers. The amount of people I know who have been driven away because of Horizon/price increases is staggering


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    #82
    SpaceTime
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    Horizon seems to be a bigger factor than they're prepared to admit.

    Part of the "problem" is that UPC is actually up against quite weak competition in a lot of its other markets. Sky's a really tough platform to beat.

    If they'd any sense they'd ditch Horizon and go with their sister-company, Virgin Media's platform as that's designed to compete with Sky.

    UPC in a lot of other markets is only really up against DVB-T services.

    UPC's previous sister-companies were very heavily invested in Horizon. That's no longer really a factor for UPC Ireland anymore.


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    #83
    7upfree
    Registered Users Posts: 2,124 ✭✭✭7upfree


    onform wrote: »
    I hope this loss of customers gives UPC a bit of a kick in the ar$e as it would be better to have a competitive market, instead of Sky becoming a monopoly.

    Nail hit on the head. Saw someone commenting on another forum the other day that they hoped UPC would "go under".

    What an incredibly stupid and childish post. If that ever happened Sky would have free rein and prices would skyrocket (no pun intended).

    Whatever they are or aren't, they've driven broadband speeds up and prices down. Imagine what we'd be stuck with now if they hadn't.


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    #84
    7upfree
    Registered Users Posts: 2,124 ✭✭✭7upfree


    SpaceTime wrote: »
    Horizon seems to be a bigger factor than they're prepared to admit.

    Part of the "problem" is that UPC is actually up against quite weak competition in a lot of its other markets. Sky's a really tough platform to beat.

    If they'd any sense they'd ditch Horizon and go with their sister-company, Virgin Media's platform as that's designed to compete with Sky.

    UPC in a lot of other markets is only really up against DVB-T services.

    UPC's previous sister-companies were very heavily invested in Horizon. That's no longer really a factor for UPC Ireland anymore.

    Sky is the top platform on the planet. No two ways about it. But doesn't TiVo only record two channels when you're watching a recording - like Sky?

    The folks have Horizon (we have Sky) and it (to me anyway) is fantastic. Record four channels and they watch a fifth?! WTF?


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    #85
    pippip
    Registered Users Posts: 2,249 ✭✭✭pippip


    7upfree wrote: »
    Sky is the top platform on the planet. No two ways about it. But doesn't TiVo only record two channels when you're watching a recording - like Sky?

    The folks have Horizon (we have Sky) and it (to me anyway) is fantastic. Record four channels and they watch a fifth?! WTF?

    I've just gone UPC to Sky and you don't need to record as much, as the SKY Catchup service is much better along with their Boxsets. You also have alot more +1 channels compared to UPC. Anything I used to record on Channel 4 I now download off the catchup as I can download it in HD compared to recording in SD.

    As others have said Horizon is UPC's downfall. Used to have to unplug the box at least once a week, nearly three months and not once have I touched the SKY box.


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    #86
    SpaceTime
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    It's not the specs of th box that are the problem it's the software and UI.

    People seem to find it hard to use.

    TiVo on Virgin has 3 tuners.


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    #87
    SMC92Ian
    Registered Users Posts: 2,015 ✭✭✭SMC92Ian


    UPC service has been ugh lately, I tried out a 2 week trial with Sky (have them for TV) but internet with UPC since 2005ish, when they were Chorus... wow Sky is **** for broadband, half way through downloading a PS3 game they told me I've downloaded to much... 25gb.... hahaha wow, a PS4 is 45-50gb... how's that work then for people who have consoles and Sky?


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    #88
    pippip
    Registered Users Posts: 2,249 ✭✭✭pippip


    SMC92Ian wrote: »
    UPC service has been ugh lately, I tried out a 2 week trial with Sky (have them for TV) but internet with UPC since 2005ish, when they were Chorus... wow Sky is **** for broadband, half way through downloading a PS3 game they told me I've downloaded to much... 25gb.... hahaha wow, a PS4 is 45-50gb... how's that work then for people who have consoles and Sky?

    I've SKY fibre and no download limits, clocks 60-70mb. Limits on two of the packages.

    http://www.sky.com/products/broadband-talk/broadband/facts/index-roi.html


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    #89
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    SpaceTime wrote: »
    It's not the specs of th box that are the problem it's the software and UI.

    People seem to find it hard to use.

    TiVo on Virgin has 3 tuners.

    I disagree. The hardware is underpowered. It can't reliably use all it's tuners. The WiFi signal is poor. Dump a buggy bloated UI on top and the worlds slowest remote. The horizon system works ok about 30% of the time.

    The phrase less is more has never been so true.


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    #90
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    7upfree wrote: »
    Record four channels and they watch a fifth?! WTF?

    I find the box isn't reliable doing that. On mine it slows to a crawl and the recordings are often messed up.


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    #91
    aphex™
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,338 ✭✭✭aphex™


    UPC hardware/software has always been poor compared to SKY.

    I put this down to zero user testing and interaction design. Once the feature 'sort of' works the developers let it out. Even their tablet apps pale in comparison and are more buggy.

    With Sky, they constantly improve things. For example in their latest update the newest recordings show at the top of your screen so you don't have to scroll all the way down the end.

    So Sky obviously have a process of reviewing their design and taking feedback from users which UPC don't.


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