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Equality of marriage and love

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  • Options
    #32
    joseph brand
    Registered Users Posts: 4,537 ✭✭✭joseph brand


    Great Bouncing Ionaballs!

    Zoom in with your mouse, drag them around.
    The ever-expanding list of concerned groups against the Gay seemed to defy the laws of physics, chemistry, biology and common sense. We only have four and a half million people in the country. How could we have ten million right-wing Catholic pressure groups. Mothers and Fathers Matter. The Iona Institute. Educators for Conscience. Stand Up For Marriage. Down With That Sort of Thing. Monty Python Against Sexiness.

    Register as a charity (for tax-relief purposes) -> receive donations -> profit!


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    #33
    pH
    Registered Users Posts: 4,188 ✭✭✭pH


    Brian Shanahan wrote: »
    Let us not forget that most of the people who voted no are not homophobes*,

    I disagree - I reckon the vast majority of no voters still feel homosexuality is wrong in some sort of moral/social sense - whether that makes them homophobic is a matter of semantics, but I believe they think that homosexuality is wrong in exactly the same way as they (and probably most people posting here) believe that drug taking, prostitution, pornography etc. are wrong.

    This moral victory for gay people is absolutely to be commended, but let's not judge those who are "homophobic" when there is still quite a long list of victimless crimes we (as in the people of Ireland) are all too happy to persecute people for.


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    #34
    fergus1001
    Registered Users Posts: 2,625 ✭✭✭fergus1001


    lazygal wrote:
    This is Ireland. We've protestant and Catholic atheists here.

    An oxymoron ?


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    #35
    pauldla
    Registered Users Posts: 2,247 ✭✭✭pauldla


    RE: The Old Thread, if it so happens that gay marriage does indeed bring about the End of the World, can we reopen it please?


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    #36
    Links234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,944 ✭✭✭✭Links234


    Merces wrote: »
    The same sex marriage victory was a battle won for LGBT equality but the war isn't over. Irish transsexuals such as myself can't legally change our gender after a sex change yet. Let's get that sorted and maybe the Iona crowd will have a communal aneurism.

    Yeah but this was a gigantic win for trans folks too, that horrible forced divorce requirement for gender recognition is no longer on the cards now. Big up for us :D


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    #37
    elfy4eva
    Registered Users Posts: 1,204 ✭✭✭elfy4eva


    ziedth wrote: »
    I have nothing against peineapples but i don't agree with them on a pizza therefore nobody should have pineapples.

    I'm a regular pineapple eater, and am not against pineapple pizza's specifically i'm against pizzas in general.

    :pac:


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    #38
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    pH wrote: »
    I disagree - I reckon the vast majority of no voters still feel homosexuality is wrong in some sort of moral/social sense - whether that makes them homophobic is a matter of semantics, but I believe they think that homosexuality is wrong in exactly the same way as they (and probably most people posting here) believe that drug taking, prostitution, pornography etc. are wrong.

    I disagree.

    Having lived my life as an out lesbian I have no hesitation in saying that if someone equates my sexual orientation with drug taking, prostitution, pornography - all of which are choices - then they are homophobic. They may not be queer-bashers but they are still guilty of seeing LGBT as guilty of some moral crime and that is as much homophobia as not wanting a black doctor to treat you in an A&E is racist. It is assigning negative characteristics to a whole group of people based only on personal prejudice.

    I will not accept any excuse for bigotry - the fact that this may be how the 'feel' is not good enough - they do not have the right to judge regardless of their beliefs.


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    #39
    K4t
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,362 ✭✭✭K4t


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    I disagree.

    Having lived my life as an out lesbian I have no hesitation in saying that if someone equates my sexual orientation with drug taking, prostitution, pornography - all of which are choices - then they are homophobic. They may not be queer-bashers but they are still guilty of seeing LGBT as guilty of some moral crime and that is as much homophobia as not wanting a black doctor to treat you in an A&E is racist. It is assigning negative characteristics to a whole group of people based only on personal prejudice.

    I will not accept any excuse for bigotry - the fact that this may be how the 'feel' is not good enough - they do not have the right to judge regardless of their beliefs.
    True. It's like when people say they don't hate gays or lgbt, it's just their belief, usually religious. Yes, but those beliefs originate from hate. The truth is that a significant number of that 700,000 who voted no are homophobic, even if the only way they have expressed that homophobia in their whole lives is true a no vote on Friday. I think Panti put it best when he, she, etc. said - "Gay people are now not the victims of homophobia, homophobes are."


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    #40
    Brian Shanahan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,232 ✭✭✭Brian Shanahan


    K4t wrote: »
    I had a post written last night (never posted it) regarding the difference between the content of posts in the Christianity forum and here! I'm not the only one who notices it! It really debunks the argument that Atheism is simply a religion itself. To be expected I suppose though when so many of them surrender their ability of rational thought thus rendering themselves impotent of objective criticism.

    The worst thing about 'tudder forum is that it's not even representative of christians in general. I've met many committed christians*, even to being members of religious orders, and to a man or woman they are nothing like the rabidity regularly on display over there, and would be horrified by the lack of common decency in the forum.

    *Well, d'uh I live in a country which still has a significant catholic population.
    Is anyone sick and tired of hearing about the 40% yet? Iona still playing the victim card strongly I see. The worst thing about this having to be achieved via referendum is that it made equality a political issue in 2015; The No side keep throwing around both the words winning and losing even after the result, not realising that they are winners too, and that we all would have been losers had a No vote prevailed. Equality is equality, it was disappointing to see it used as a political football by two fierce rivals for teams.

    The thing is Iona aren't winners in this, nor are the rcc hierarchy, because one of the levers of control they took up for themselves has just been definitively kicked out of their hands. They can no longer look down on the LGBT community and discriminate against them without a severe backlash. And the fact that they threw their efforts behind the homophobia vote and lost so heavily must be preying on their minds mightily at the moment, because they must realise after this weekend that they no longer have any hold on the Irish people as a whole and are becoming increasingly irrelevant in the nation's life, except insofar as the government is too chicken to finally seperate the state from the rcc.


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    #41
    The Black Oil
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 18,203 CMod ✭✭✭✭The Black Oil


    The bitterness of some of the No camp is quite telling, imo.

    Bruce Arnold is still harping on in the letters page of the Irish Times.

    Anyone know what this is about? (same link as above)
    Sir, – As Sheriff of Dublin City from 1995 to 2012, I handled four general elections (600-plus ballot boxes each time), all European, presidential, local and byelections in that time and countless referendums. Never in all that time did any member of the Garda “seal and secure” any ballot boxes (May 21st).

    It is not, and never has been, their function, that being the absolute responsibility of the returning officer and his staff – and his staff only.

    Assuming she was correctly reported, someone should have a word in Ms Fidelma Healy Eames’s ear. – Yours, etc,
    BRENDAN WALSH,
    Dublin 4.

    Moderator: Television, Psychology and Dublin County North.

    CMod: Entertainment



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    #42
    marienbad
    Registered Users Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    From the old thread -

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=95605090&postcount=9717



    Video here. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32858501 Doesn't include the 12 years quote though, anyone got a link to that?

    I actually thought that was an outstanding and thoughtful interview . He is a much more reasonable guy that half those opus dei /iona crowd


  • Options
    #43
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Senator Healy Eames getting it wrong as usual. When will mothers day be cancelled?


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    #44
    pH
    Registered Users Posts: 4,188 ✭✭✭pH


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    I disagree.

    Having lived my life as an out lesbian I have no hesitation in saying that if someone equates my sexual orientation with drug taking, prostitution, pornography - all of which are choices - then they are homophobic. They may not be queer-bashers but they are still guilty of seeing LGBT as guilty of some moral crime and that is as much homophobia as not wanting a black doctor to treat you in an A&E is racist. It is assigning negative characteristics to a whole group of people based only on personal prejudice.

    I will not accept any excuse for bigotry - the fact that this may be how the 'feel' is not good enough - they do not have the right to judge regardless of their beliefs.

    I'm sorry but this distinction about things we can hate and punish people for that are "choices" as opposed to "non-choices" is a tortured piece of non-thinking which has become prevalent in progressive circles as a way of promoting "in" causes while still somehow giving those same people moral authority to condemn others for victimless crimes.

    Why you are/do/believe something is entirely irrelevant, homosexuality cause no harm to anyone, and therefore should not be proscribed in any way - just because others find it distasteful, immoral or whatever is irrelevant - gay people aren't harming anyone - they should absolutely be allowed to get on with their lives unhindered and with no discrimination and as equals - but this has nothing whatsoever to do with why they're gay.


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    #45
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    pH wrote: »
    I'm sorry but this distinction about things we can hate and punish people for that are "choices" as opposed to "non-choices" is a tortured piece of non-thinking which has become prevalent in progressive circles as a way of promoting "in" causes while still somehow giving those same people moral authority to condemn others for victimless crimes.

    Why you are/do/believe something is entirely irrelevant, homosexuality cause no harm to anyone, and therefore should not be proscribed in any way - just because others find it distasteful, immoral or whatever is irrelevant - gay people aren't harming anyone - they should absolutely be allowed to get on with their lives unhindered and with no discrimination and as equals - but this has nothing whatsoever to do with why they're gay.

    Yet - I have seen just such punishments handed out by so called moral guardians so all your fine words are meaningless in the real world where the haters are enabled by the 'just find it distasteful'.

    I have lived through the illegality of homosexuality in Ireland.
    I lived through the 'gay plague'.
    I lived through Clause 28.
    In some countries I would be lucky to remain alive.

    Do not dare diminish what LGBT people have suffered and continue to suffer across the world and act as if it's just 'distaste' or declare what those arrayed against us feel is not relevant -

    You don't get that right.


  • Options
    #46
    fergus1001
    Registered Users Posts: 2,625 ✭✭✭fergus1001


    elfy4eva wrote:
    I'm a regular pineapple eater, and am not against pineapple pizza's specifically i'm against pizzas in general.


    I'm voting no for pineapple equality, disgusting fruit


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    #47
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin



    .........................in exactly the same way as they (and probably most people posting here) believe that drug taking, prostitution, pornography etc. are
    wrong.


    ........might be a bit wrong there.


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    #48
    Merces
    Closed Accounts Posts: 97 ✭✭Merces


    joseph brand wrote: »
    The No side have been complaining that all the political parties supported the Yes side, leaving Iona as the lone bastion of bigotry. Apparently they are solely funded through grassroots voters, which surprises me as I'm sure they have wealthy donors. (Tom Monaghan of Dominos Pizza)

    I knew Pappa John was a bigoted pizza company but Dominos is news to me. Glad I use Four Star. What is it with Pizza companies and bigotry?


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    #49
    Merces
    Closed Accounts Posts: 97 ✭✭Merces


    Links234 wrote: »
    Yeah but this was a gigantic win for trans folks too, that horrible forced divorce requirement for gender recognition is no longer on the cards now. Big up for us :D

    Yeah, that should make the legislation easier, and hopefully it will arrive sooner because of it.


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    #50
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Comedy time with Breda
    Seven hundred and thirty-four thousand, three hundred people did not vote No to love and equality. They are just as generous and inclusive as their
    neighbours who voted Yes, and just as fond of their gay relatives. In fact, some of them are gay themselves.

    Yep. They voted to stop people being able to do something they disapproved of. Really, really tolerant that is.

    We do not have to admire the fact that the campaign may have lasted weeks, but the soft coverage of gay icons and celebrities and “human interest” stories pushing the Yes side have been going on for years, with the enthusiastic collusion of the media.

    The universal translator has this as "De Libirul meedja!!!11!!!!!"

    The same Government presided over the disintegration of mental health
    services – everything from removing guidance counsellors from school, often the first to pick up serious problems – to decimating the psychiatric services. The hypocrisy is stunning.
    ....and they wanted the ghey marry too? Kill them, kill them all!!!!!!!!!!

    Yet certain facts remain facts no matter how often they are denied. Every
    time two men bring a new child into the world, they need to use surrogacy. Every time.

    Whats that thing some people do? A-dop? A-dop-shun? Breda should ask one of her mates in the institute about it. The fella. He's bound to know something about it.

    Some day, there will be a young Irish woman wandering the streets of
    Copenhagen. She will have been raised by her lesbian mother and her partner, both of whom she loves dearly, and who are great mothers
    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/breda-o-brien-an-inconvenient-truth-about-the-same-sex-marriage-referendum-1.2224422

    I'd offer a prize for anyone who guesses why she picked Copenhagen, but I can only guess meself.

    The full whinge
    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/breda-o-brien-an-inconvenient-truth-about-the-same-sex-marriage-referendum-1.2224422


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    #51
    Pherekydes
    Registered Users Posts: 16,109 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    Nodin wrote: »
    I'd offer a prize for anyone who guesses why she picked Copenhagen, but I can only guess meself.

    They like Carlsberg?


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    #52
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Pherekydes wrote: »
    They like Carlsberg?

    Amsterdam=too obvious

    Copenhagen=Denmark=Scandavia = Raving liberals whose fault all of it is, the big sexy blonde bastards.


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    #53
    Shrap
    Registered Users Posts: 3,163 ✭✭✭Shrap


    Nodin wrote: »
    Comedy time with Breda

    The comments are pure comedy gold on that. Loads of "Satan laughing and the maniacal laughter of the damned" stuff, also the "gay world and it's horror stories". Fantastical!


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    #54
    Not a NSA agent
    Closed Accounts Posts: 781 ✭✭✭Not a NSA agent


    Nodin wrote: »

    I'd offer a prize for anyone who guesses why she picked Copenhagen, but I can only guess meself.

    The full whinge
    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/breda-o-brien-an-inconvenient-truth-about-the-same-sex-marriage-referendum-1.2224422

    Weren't they talking about how the vikings are invading again by having sperm as their largest export or something?

    Its a great Idea, sperm travels far better than babies. The nuns really should have asked for their advice on best ways of shipping out people.


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    #55
    BlaasForRafa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,020 ✭✭✭BlaasForRafa


    Not a NSA agent wrote: »
    Weren't they talking about how the vikings are invading again by having sperm as their largest export or something?

    Its a great Idea, sperm travels far better than babies. The nuns really should have asked for their advice on best ways of shipping out people.

    Isn't wasting sperm a sin anyways?

    Breda really needs to consult with her sky-god and get his/her opinion on the matter.


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    #56
    Going Strong
    Registered Users Posts: 837 ✭✭✭Going Strong


    Just back from a visit to my parents.

    My mother isn't a happy bunny at all.

    "Well, *we* fecking lost."

    That's democracy for you.

    "Hmph, it was all the voters who came back home to vote Yes that won it."

    I explain how, if that's the case, you'd be able to walk across the Irish sea without getting your feet wet so many ferries would be needed.

    "Hah! Typical you and your smart-@rsed answers! You voted Yes didn't you?"

    Of course (Points at Irish Examiner next to her with photos of happy people celebrating) Isn't it grand to give some joy and happiness to people and it didn't cost me anything more than some shoe leather?

    (Mutters something about how it'll all end in tears and changes the subject).

    That's me out of the will then and no mistake. Voting "Yes" is tantamount to coming out as gay in her eyes.


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    #57
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Going Strong wrote: »
    My mother isn't a happy bunny at all.
    I feel a support-group coming on for people who have difficult relatives.

    Popette rang up last week with nine-foot flames coming from her ears - every talking point neatly regurgitated from the poisonous pens of BOB, DQ, JW, RM and that Bruce Arnold clown - and managed, only just, to stop before she declared open war upon her entire extended family.


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    #58
    Going Strong
    Registered Users Posts: 837 ✭✭✭Going Strong


    I hear you. Way back in the mists of time when I was in my late teens, my mother informed that "If you turn out to be a queer, you're no longer welcome in this house." Luckily I'm not so I still had a roof over my head although none of my girlfriends ever met with her approval so I might as well have brought men home for all the difference it would have made. I was also to report if anyone I met was a Protestant so she could update her dossier matching certain surnames to a certain religion. Imagine if I'd brought home a gay Prod! :eek:

    I should really invent a time machine shouldn't I?


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    #59
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Kathy Sheridan has a nice piece on the calm after the storm:

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/kathy-sheridan-republic-wakes-to-world-of-calm-acceptance-1.2224243


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    #60
    PopePalpatine
    Registered Users Posts: 11,842 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    Nodin wrote: »
    The full whinge
    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/breda-o-brien-an-inconvenient-truth-about-the-same-sex-marriage-referendum-1.2224422

    Maybe she was a big fan of Tom Kristensen? :pac:


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    #61
    silverharp
    Registered Users Posts: 17,840 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    Going Strong wrote: »
    Just back from a visit to my parents....

    I read that in my head with a cranky west of ireland accent for some reason I cant put my finger on :pac:

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



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