Low Irish IQ

Tar.Aldarion · 07-08-2006 12:43am

Good IQ tests are rare, certainly no net one is good. They don't even ask all relevant questions with regards what they should be asking.
Standard tests don't even go to 160 and I doubt Mr. Democrates has an IQ that high, especially from his posts.
Iq tests are a really rough guide, frankly, you know how smart you are without a test.

Pocari Sweat · 07-08-2006 1:15am

here, here.

Sam Vimes · 07-08-2006 10:15am

^CwAzY^ wrote:

dats jus u sayin its woeful, sure ders lots of ppl who agre wit him

yes, and they are all in the kkk.

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote:

The only difference between you and a black person is the level of seratonin you produce. Same species I'm afraid.

i think you mean melantonin. serotonin effects moods

Terry · 07-08-2006 11:03am

Pocari Sweat wrote:

here, here.

where, where?

Pocari Sweat · 07-08-2006 11:12am

Julep there is a thread about stalking in after hours you might want to join, you have been trolling me for the last week after you spat your dummy out in the thunderdome.

I won't go crying off to the mods like the mammy's boy you are, or pallying up with buddies and mentioning banning people for just crappy posts (which is my hallmark if you did not notice) so carry on if you want, but be ready to get a good whoopin'.

Terry · 07-08-2006 11:15am

i'm afraid the sublety of my posts may have you confused, but keep living in that little bubble. it seems like fun.

Pocari Sweat · 07-08-2006 11:20am

Just to be subtle then, subtlety< is spelled thus.

astrofool · 07-08-2006 11:26am

Tar.Aldarion wrote:

frankly, you know how smart you are without a test.

I'd argue that in fact people don't have a clue how smart they are, as they will generally believe that everybody else will think the same way as themselves, often being shocked when they realise that different people think in entirely different ways about things. I know I for one have a relatively mechanical brain, and will see how things work faster than most people, yet I would never be good at something like choreographed dance, which other people take to like a duck to water, implicitly understanding how to move a certain way without thinking about it.

Do you think a complete dumb ass really knows he's a dumb ass? Surely if he knew, then he'd stop being a dumb ass (usually impossible

). Maybe you're saying that people know their limits?, which again causes problems as alot of people waste their lives underperforming when they could have contributed alot more to society and/or lived a richer fuller life for themselves.

By definition the average IQ of a group of people is 100, if a test shows otherwise, then the test is flawed (given a large enough sample for the average to be clear). There is nothing genetic that makes one country smarter than another country, or at least it hasn't been found yet, but given Ireland's small population, I sincerely doubt that Ireland is any way different from the UK and rest of Europe on an intelligence level.

Another problem i'd surmise is that we spend an inordinate amount of time teaching pupils Irish rather than giving more time to subjects such as Maths, History, and more used languages like German and French like other countries, which an IQ test would be more skewed towards on a worldwide level, maybe if the test reflected this, scores would be higher. Of course, given that most people seldom use Irish beyond school (and given the shockingly low standard people reach given the time and effort), it may be worthwhile to spend this time on more useful knowledge.

AngryBadger · 07-08-2006 11:27am

^CwAzY^ wrote:

nevr heard dat b4, i did hear 1 bout d blacks in nigeria r sumthin havin bout 40 lower IQ avg dan mst of d rst of d world..

jeebus....this was a piss take post......right?

Pocari Sweat · 07-08-2006 11:45am

Cwazy is being a bit racist / ironic / moronic there, but if he just said nigerians and kept it on a national level rather than mention blacks, he would have got the irony across a little less offensively, possibly?

Tar.Aldarion · 07-08-2006 11:47am

astrofool wrote:

I'd argue that in fact people don't have a clue how smart they are, as they will generally believe that everybody else will think the same way as themselves, often being shocked when they realise that different people think in entirely different ways about things.

I thought that until I was around eight, I remember the day I realised it was not the case well. What an odd day to remember.

I know I for one have a relatively mechanical brain, and will see how things work faster than most people, yet I would never be good at something like choreographed dance, which other people take to like a duck to water, implicitly understanding how to move a certain way without thinking about it.

This is what I meant, you know this about yourself.

Do you think a complete dumb ass really knows he's a dumb ass? Surely if he knew, then he'd stop being a dumb ass (usually impossible ).

If you are inherently bad at math or 'choreographed dance' you can't just improve your skills beyond your abilities.

Maybe you're saying that people know their limits?, which again causes problems as alot of people waste their lives underperforming when they could have contributed alot more to society and/or lived a richer fuller life for themselves.

People roughly know what they are good at, and how good, as per your example.

Another problem i'd surmise is that we spend an inordinate amount of time teaching pupils Irish rather than giving more time to subjects such as Maths, History, and more used languages like German and French like other countries, which an IQ test would be more skewed towards on a worldwide level, maybe if the test reflected this, scores would be higher. Of course, given that most people seldom use Irish beyond school (and given the shockingly low standard people reach given the time and effort), it may be worthwhile to spend this time on more useful knowledge.

To be fair, the maths, logic, etc on IQ tests is just fundamental stuff, we are taught well enough in them after primary school for the tests to be acceptable. The 'hardest' thing on it isusually just Pythag's theorem.
We are taught very well here, as regards doing well on an IQ test if you have the innate ability.

Terry · 07-08-2006 11:52am

Tar.Aldarion wrote:

I thought that until I was around eight, I remember the day I realised it was not the case well. What an odd day to remember.

i think i was about 6 when that happened to me. i was a little freaked out. it was the same day that i realised how big the world is. my father had shown me an atlas and was pointing out the various countries he visited and the differences in culture in these places.
half an hour later and santa claus was never the same again.

Pocari Sweat · 07-08-2006 11:55am

Normal exams are timed, and mensa tests are timed, but IQ tests are a test to see how much you can get through in a short time spell, and how accurately, in about an hour I think it is, without a need so much of knowledge based stuff, it is more to do with problem solving, and mensa let you in if you get somewhere around 150, but genius level like Democrates is 160 plus.

Pocari Sweat · 07-08-2006 11:56am

oh, and Julep.

Tar.Aldarion · 07-08-2006 11:57am

To get into Menza, hmm, I think it was 120 I had to get over.
They always have it so that the top 2% can get in.

Pocari Sweat · 07-08-2006 11:59am

You are nearly right, in England you can get in the top 2% easily enough after getting over 140, but it is the top 1% there around 150.

Pocari Sweat · 07-08-2006 12:01pm

Even in the top 1%, that means one in every 100 people have a top IQ, so a school with a thousand pupils will have ten mensa dudes, or a city like Dublin will have over 10,000 mensa dudes, probably a couple or three, going in every pub each night.

Crucifix · 07-08-2006 12:03pm

Pocari Sweat wrote:

Even in the top 1%, that means one in every 100 people have a top IQ, so a school with a thousand pupils will have ten mensa dudes, or a city like Dublin will have over 10,000 mensa dudes, probably a couple or three, going in every pub each night.

Mensa capable dudes. Not everyone capable of being in Mensa will be in Mensa.

Black Swan · 07-08-2006 12:06pm

monkeyfudge wrote:

Isn't 90 pretty much the average IQ for humans in general? So it's nothing special if it's true.

Background. Two of the most frequently used IQ tests for children in the English speaking world are the WISC (Wechsler Intelligence Scale for Children) and the Stanford-Binet IQ. Two of the most frequently used adult IQ tests are the WAIS (Wechsler Adult Intelligence Scale) and the GATB (General Aptitude Test Battery). The WAIS and WISC have a population average of 100 for average intelligence. If my memory serves me, the standard deviation for both of these measures of IQ is about 15, suggesting that a population falling within 85 and 115 IQ would essentially have average intelligence (about 68 percent of persons taking the tests would fall into this IQ range based upon the normal distribution curve). Cannot remember the population mean or standard deviation for the GATB or the Stanford-Binet.

Problems with IQ Tests. There are a lot of problems when attempting to assess a nation's intelligence using IQ tests:
(1) IQ tests only sample one kind of intelligence, typically associated with getting good grades at university. There are several other types of intelligence not measured by IQ tests.
(2) IQ tests exhibit cultural bias. The above mentioned tests were mostly developed, normed and standardized in the USA. Ireland is not USA, and there are differences that could influence the IQ score.
(3) The 93 IQ average score for the Irish population was based on what IQ test? Or did someone take the trouble to compare different tests of IQ statistically, perhaps using a Z-score, then come up with this IQ value of 93? We would still have to know the particular IQ test that the others were compared with to make any sense out of this 93 IQ score.
(4) Was a statistically representative sample of the Irish population administered an IQ test, or did this score emerge from conveniently available data, which might not represent the Irish population? I doubt that a representative sample was obtained, making this IQ 93 score both invalid and unreliable.

Conclusion. So to boil down all the mumbo jumbo shared in this post, to claim that the Irish population has a 93 IQ, without other data to support such a claim, is meaningless.

References. If you are interested in the IQ debate, arguments in favour of IQ testing can be found in The Bell Curve by R.J. Herrnstein and Charles Murray (1994). Arguments against the IQ test are well summarized in The Bell Curve Debate, edited by Russell Jacoby and Naomi Glauberman (1995).

P.S.: My apologies to Ruu for getting serious on AH and forgetting where I left my sense of humour!

Pocari Sweat · 07-08-2006 12:07pm

sharp enough there crucifix.

Tar.Aldarion · 07-08-2006 12:09pm

Pocari Sweat wrote:

You are nearly right, in England you can get in the top 2% easily enough after getting over 140, but it is the top 1% there around 150.

I looked it up, it is the top 2%. What score that is varies according to the scale used.

The BBC Test the Nation IQ quiz is not a recognised IQ test and so Mensa is unable to accept people for membership on the basis of their Test the Nation scores. However, achievement of a score of 120 or more in this IQ quiz would suggest you might like to have a go at a full Mensa IQ test.

Heh. Everybody in my family got over 120 in that. Go team nerd!

Pocari Sweat · 07-08-2006 12:09pm

The Cattel scale was the main one mensa used, in the '80s at least anyway.

Hobbes · 07-08-2006 12:13pm

astrofool wrote:

I'd argue that in fact people don't have a clue how smart they are,

Actually there was a scientific study done that proved that people thought they were smarter then they actually where.

IQ is bunk anyway. DAT appeared to be a lot better in determining intelligence. As IQ lumps the lot together.

TBH when someone starts quoting thier certifications/IQ before starting into an argument it means they can't argue that subject and are using the number to try and intimidate.

Tar.Aldarion · 07-08-2006 12:14pm

A top 2% mark in any of these frequently used tests below qualifies you for entry to Mensa. The minimum test mark to get into Mensa is:
Cattell III B - 148
Culture Fair - 132
Ravens Advanced Matrices - 135
Ravens Standard Matrices - 131
Wechsler Scales - 132

British Mensa uses two main tests to identify people's IQ scores, the Cattell III B and the Cattell Culture Fair III A. A score which puts you in the top two per cent of the population on either of these papers would qualify you for membership of Mensa.

A middle aged adult can only get a maximum IQ of 161 on the Cattell III B test.

I like the sound of those matrices ones. :eek:

http://www.ada.org/prof/ed/testing/dat/registering.asp
DAT? eh.

Pocari Sweat · 07-08-2006 12:21pm

Remember, IQ is age dependent too, so the older you get, the harder it can get, if you don't stimulate the grey matter, and drink sheds loads of ale and lose a lot of it, so I think mensa will just tell me to feck off now.

astrofool · 07-08-2006 12:23pm

Hobbes wrote:

Actually there was a scientific study done that proved that people thought they were smarter then they actually where.

Of course i'd argue that if you answered a question wrong (i.e. how smart are you?) then you don't know the answer, and hence don't know how smart you are, backing up my claim

Pocari Sweat · 07-08-2006 12:24pm

Hobbes wrote:

TBH when someone starts quoting thier certifications/IQ before starting into an argument it means they can't argue that subject and are using the number to try and intimidate.

In a word - Democrates.

Hedgehoggski · 03-06-2012 9:21am

An ultra quick google turned up this site which gives us a national average of 105 for people taking their IQ tests.:
http://www.iq-test.ie/stats/

some (dubious) info on IQ here:
http://www.iq-test.ie/faq/

(I wouldn't trust it much! ;-)

This list may interest people interested in IQ scores. The IQ test on this was fun to do:
http://onemansblog.com/2007/11/08/the-massive-list-of-genius-people-with-the-highest-iq/

my 2c:
MENSA stated on my acceptance letter that I had to have a score >148 on their cattellB/A test to be eligible.

However I don't feel particularly smart at all. In fact I feel rather stupid most of the time really. I think being fairly smart means you are more painfully aware of how much more there actually is to know about everything and paradoxically you feel even more stupid than most people around you as a result!!.

The info quoted by the moderator about IQ previously was pretty on the mark IMHO.

MENSA is much maligned and misunderstood. It is really just a social club for misfits. Would you begrudge people >2-3 Standard deviations from the norm in the other direction their social safety nets or remedial classes?? Probably not!!

Well guess what, people >2-3 Standard deviations from the norm in the other direction have difficulties fitting in too!!

Its a very useful way to make social contact with others if you are isolated and alone. And you are likely to be if you are a bit different from those around you. I'm glad something like MENSA was there when I needed it.

Normally you have to be careful not to mention membership of MENSA as people get really odd about it, however this forum is fairly anonymous so it doesn't matter so much, hence the post. I don't really understand why people hate it so much when some folks have an IQ club but yet these same people have no problem with lots of other exclusive clubs with hard to meet entrance criteria.

At least with MENSA, even the poorest homeless person could join if they just have a high IQ. (fees are waived for unemployed)

It puts up one barrier not based on anything but your inner resources and in doing so removes many other social barriers, including wealth. This is much fairer than your average golf club. At MENSA meetings I got to converse with company directors and unemployed bums at the same table. It was fun. There were always interesting people there. Often it was the bums that were most unorthodox and interesting!!

MENSA have a long list of special interest groups (SIGs) you can join, and you can meet like minded geeky people to talk about/do interesting stuff with.

They also have a very useful network so you can stay for free with members in other countries if you are travelling. People volunteer to let members stay with them under certain conditions (diet, smoking etc). Very handy indeed!

If you are in an urban area, you can eat, meet, chat and have nice people to go to cinema or shows with most weeknights if you want.

The magazine usually sucks though.

Overall, you should join if you can. It's a useful social safety net and a way to meet interesting people. Much misunderstood. And very little to do with elitism. Quite the opposite actually. It's one of the more friendly and inclusive organisations I've ever joined.

themadchef · 03-06-2012 9:25am

Zombie thread will git you and suck your :pac:

brains out \ if ya have any.

LETHAL LADY · 03-06-2012 9:28am

Land of saints and scholars.

Low Irish IQ

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