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30 year old woman dies during London Marathon

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124

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    #92
    menoscemo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,915 ✭✭✭✭menoscemo


    youtube! wrote: »
    Jeez the Marathon Nazis are out in force today huh?

    You are behind the times. The article you mentioned was discussed to death a few months ago
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=82025570
    By the looks of the quick search I did, the topic has come up many times before under the guise of a different study/article etc...

    All I know is there are guys running marathons every week into relatively old age and they look pretty healthy to me. Perhaps you don't realise or understand that such people don't overstress their body running long distances because they keep the pace handy and their bodies are sued to the distnace.


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    #93
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,063 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    youtube! wrote: »
    ...In contrast, running
    too fast, too far, and for too many years
    may speed one’s progress towards the
    finish line of life....

    Note the use of the word and there.

    Running a marathon at race pace every day would be considered too fast, too far and too often and you won't find anyone here disagreeing with that. Training properly for a couple of marathons a year as an amateur is a vastly different form of exercise which I don't think you'll even find that papers authors disagreeing with.


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    #94
    youtube!
    Registered Users Posts: 1,265 ✭✭✭youtube!


    drquirky wrote: »
    In fairness you are someone who doesn't exercise and is posting negative, biased research in the Athletics and Running forum and telling us what we do is unsafe...what kind of response did you expect? BTW if marathon running is so dangerous, where are the bodies? Surely there should be 10's to hundreds of dead people at the end of a big city marathon, no?



    I refer you to my original post, specifically this part

    Personally I started running 5Ks last year and am going towards 10K


    A little presumptuous of you to say the least? I love to exercise but I am not foolish enough to overdo it! The human body was always designed for short bursts of intense activity as far as I can see thats why I am also doing HIT training, if you enjoy you Marathons then fair play each to their own,but at least my heart will not end up like an over stretched balloon by the time I am 60 because like it or not thats whats happening.


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    #95
    youtube!
    Registered Users Posts: 1,265 ✭✭✭youtube!


    28064212 wrote: »
    Wrong again. That is not a source paper, it's an article drawing a conclusion from various papers. One of those papers is the article's authors' own, from which I posted the quote above:

    I can't find the Minnesota paper they mention, but the German one they mention is here, and if you read it, you'll see that the FRS (10-year cardiovascular risk of an individual) of regular marathon runners was lower than their sedentary counterparts. The surprising thing from the study was that regular marathon runners had higher levels of CAC, which is a possible risk factor in cardiovascular health. Even allowing for this, the marathon runners were still had a lower cardiovascular risk than non-marathon runners.

    So I suggest learning a bit more about the topic at hand before throwing around "nazi" comments





    Show me where I disagreed with this? Obviously a marathon runner will have a healthier heart than a sedentary couch potato,what I am saying is Marathon running is over doing it and goes against our evolutionary make up!

    Perhaps I was a bit OTT with the nazi comments, retracted.


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    #96
    28064212
    Registered Users Posts: 10,457 ✭✭✭✭28064212


    youtube! wrote: »
    Show me where I disagreed with this? Obviously a marathon runner will have a healthier heart than a sedentary couch potato,what I am saying is Marathon running is over doing it and goes against our evolutionary make up!
    Where is your evidence for this? Because it's not what the papers referenced are saying

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    #97
    ThePiedPiper
    Registered Users Posts: 2,643 ✭✭✭ThePiedPiper


    HIT training? That's High Intensity Weight Lifting or something is it? Give me two minutes to google some pointless article written by somebody saying its dangerous. If that's what you're into, go for it. However, I'd hazard a guess that the percentage of people having heart failure doing too much HIT, for too long and for too often is probably fairly high?


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    #98
    rom
    Registered Users Posts: 5,135 ✭✭✭rom


    Rugby & Football have statically far more deaths and life threatening injuries but as both bring in a sh*t load of money in advertising for the media companies it is not popular to say this. However as a marathon unfortunately does not have a half time to pump in two ad breaks and draws less people to view ads verus the big cost of filming the event. Basically marathon running is an easy target as it generally does not have big money behind it to push product. Most elite runners would hope to earn around what the third tier of english football earns which is on average 45k per year. This could be less.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2055140/Premier-League-wages-FIVE-times-Championship.html


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    #99
    ThePiedPiper
    Registered Users Posts: 2,643 ✭✭✭ThePiedPiper


    Right, I've just looked at a summary report of my training over the last two years. The average length of my training sessions is 8 miles at 8.2 miles per hour, 58 minutes. Averaging 30 miles per week. Looking at that, would you agree that is a fairly healthy and non-damaging level of training and physical activity? So do the two marathons every year, 57 miles in total, with average pace being about 8.8mph in the races, mean I'm going to lose all benefits of a healthy and active lifestyle and drop? I'll be taking my chances...


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    #100
    PaulieYifter
    Registered Users Posts: 701 ✭✭✭PaulieYifter


    youtube! wrote: »
    The human body was always designed for short bursts of intense activity as far as I can see
    youtube! wrote: »
    what I am saying is Marathon running is over doing it and goes against our evolutionary make up

    What leads you to that conclusion?

    Anything I've read suggests the opposite.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persistence_hunting


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    #101
    youtube!
    Registered Users Posts: 1,265 ✭✭✭youtube!


    RunForestRun wrote: »
    Right, I've just looked at a summary report of my training over the last two years. The average length of my training sessions is 8 miles at 8.2 miles per hour, 58 minutes. Averaging 30 miles per week. Looking at that, would you agree that is a fairly healthy and non-damaging level of training and physical activity? So do the two marathons every year, 57 miles in total, with average pace being about 8.8mph in the races, mean I'm going to lose all benefits of a healthy and active lifestyle and drop? I'll be taking my chances...



    Look mate read the article,regardless of it being made up of several studies and regardless of it not being 100% conclusive it does make a lot of valid points, when I started only last year to do the C25K prog which is absolutely brilliant in every way, I promised myself that one day I would run a marathon,however even though I can run 5k-10ks in my sleep literally now, I have educated myself to reason that it is not a good idea to overdo it. HIT training is where its at no doubt in my mind about that. Check out the BBC Horizon programme "the truth about exercise" for a real eye opener about training.

    Just as an aside when I was a kid my best mates Dad ran Marathons all the time,never drank or put junk food in his body, a total long distance running freak he had a quadruple bypass at the age of 46, he died at 58, not saying it was because of the marathon running but it wouldnt surprise me in the least.


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    #102
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,834 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    youtube! wrote: »
    Just as an aside when I was a kid my best mates Dad ran Marathons all the time,never drank or put junk food in his body, a total long distance running freak he had a quadruple bypass at the age of 46, he died at 58, not saying it was because of the marathon running but it wouldnt surprise me in the least.

    It would completely surprise me.


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    #103
    28064212
    Registered Users Posts: 10,457 ✭✭✭✭28064212


    youtube! wrote: »
    Look mate read the article,regardless of it being made up of several studies and regardless of it not being 100% conclusive it does make a lot of valid points
    Which valid points, in which specific source papers? For a contrary opinion, the Berkeley National Laboratory (in a far, far larger study), found that 40 miles a week was an optimal distance for running, a target which you're not likely to reach training for 5k and 10k races

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    #104
    nerraw1111
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,818 ✭✭✭nerraw1111


    Well, this just proves why you should never read youtube comments.


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    #105
    ThePiedPiper
    Registered Users Posts: 2,643 ✭✭✭ThePiedPiper


    Right so.. In the same way that there are plenty of people that reach 80 years or more who have smoked fags all their lives and drank too much. I'd say the fags and the booze are the things that contributed to their longevity....

    Oh wait, sorry, they would probably be isolated cases that would be the exception rather than the rule. QED. Is my reply now scientifically conclusive?


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    #106
    rom
    Registered Users Posts: 5,135 ✭✭✭rom


    youtube! wrote: »
    Look mate read the article,regardless of it being made up of several studies and regardless of it not being 100% conclusive it does make a lot of valid points, when I started only last year to do the C25K prog which is absolutely brilliant in every way, I promised myself that one day I would run a marathon,however even though I can run 5k-10ks in my sleep literally now, I have educated myself to reason that it is not a good idea to overdo it. HIT training is where its at no doubt in my mind about that. Check out the BBC Horizon programme "the truth about exercise" for a real eye opener about training.

    Just as an aside when I was a kid my best mates Dad ran Marathons all the time,never drank or put junk food in his body, a total long distance running freak he had a quadruple bypass at the age of 46, he died at 58, not saying it was because of the marathon running but it wouldnt surprise me in the least.

    There are other risk factors.

    High blood cholesterol and triglyceride (tri-GLIS-er-ide) levels (a type of fat found in the blood)
    High blood pressure
    Diabetes and prediabetes
    Overweight and obesity
    Smoking
    Lack of physical activity (looks like he didn't have this one)
    Unhealthy diet (looks like he didn't have this one)
    Stress

    He could still have had 6 out of 8 of those.


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    #107
    nerraw1111
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,818 ✭✭✭nerraw1111


    RunForestRun wrote: »
    . Is my reply now scientifically conclusive?

    Stick a few "maybes," "on the other hand" and an example of your mate's brother's uncle and you'll be on solid scientific grounds.


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    #108
    menoscemo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,915 ✭✭✭✭menoscemo


    youtube! wrote: »
    Check out the BBC Horizon programme "the truth about exercise" for a real eye opener about training.

    Most of us here didn't think that was a real eyeopener at all:

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=77326511


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    #109
    youtube!
    Registered Users Posts: 1,265 ✭✭✭youtube!


    rom wrote: »
    There are other risk factors.

    High blood cholesterol and triglyceride (tri-GLIS-er-ide) levels (a type of fat found in the blood)
    High blood pressure
    Diabetes and prediabetes
    Overweight and obesity
    Smoking
    Lack of physical activity (looks like he didn't have this one)
    Unhealthy diet (looks like he didn't have this one)
    Stress

    He could still have had 6 out of 8 of those.


    He didnt smoke, wasnt ever a diabetic (i know this because I am still best mates with his son) wasnt overweight, dunno about hight blood pressure or cholesterol but I can find out, stress meh thats all rubbish about stress causing heart problems in the first place,


    more proof

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/04/110405194101.htm


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    #110
    ThePiedPiper
    Registered Users Posts: 2,643 ✭✭✭ThePiedPiper


    I'm annoyed at myself for even biting at this old debate. I ran London last year, conditions were warm and muggy, and the runner who died was, although misguided in whatever choices she made, extremely unlucky. This shouldn't have become some sort of slagging match about the dangers of overtraining or whatever.


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    #111
    28064212
    Registered Users Posts: 10,457 ✭✭✭✭28064212


    youtube! wrote: »
    more proof
    Of what? That is totally unrelated to your assertion that "Marathon running... is a very dangerous act"

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    #112
    pansophelia
    Registered Users Posts: 277 ✭✭pansophelia


    Last year I mentioned to a friend I was thinking of running a marathon. She had a bit of a rant about how it was dangerous to do that level of exercise. At the time she was working in the cardiology department of a busy hospital - I asked how many of her patients over the previous few months had been marathoners - none.
    The main point the coroner here made was that this young woman bought an exercise supplement in good faith online, as many many people do, without being fully aware of the potential consequences.


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    #113
    menoscemo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,915 ✭✭✭✭menoscemo


    youtube! wrote: »
    more proof

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/04/110405194101.htm

    That's laughable and doesn't prove anything.
    The only conclusion is that it is more time efficient to do short intense busts than 'long' (20 minute :rolleyes:) sessions of excercise. Anyone with half a brain would know that anyway....The assumption seems to be that people don't want to waste time excercising.
    You do realise most people on here actually enjoy running for long periods? You do also realise that most marathon runners do actually run short, intense intervals as part of their training (just not every day)?
    Most of us probably do more 'HIT' than you but just don't label it as such...


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    #114
    ger664
    Registered Users Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭ger664


    We will all die from something. Stop worrying about it and go out and do whatever rocks your boat before its too late.


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    #115
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,462 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    I find that exercise being blamed for deaths here somewhat odd,

    The same paper youtube! links to suggests that a drug "maybe" involved in Claire Squires death during the London marathon

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9837613/Jack3D-the-controversial-supplement-linked-to-Claire-Squires-death.html


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    #116
    louthandproud
    Registered Users Posts: 975 ✭✭✭louthandproud


    "After our recent articles on this topic,1 3–5
    Amby Burfoot, winner of the 1968 Boston
    Marathon and Editor-at-Large for Runner’s
    World Magazine, challenged our assertions
    about the dangers of extreme endurance
    efforts by demanding, ‘Show me the
    bodies’. Amby has a good point: the risk of
    dropping dead in a marathon is remote,
    about 0.5 to 1 in 100,000 participants    .6 But
    the occasional marathoner or triathlete who
    dies while strenuously exercising is the
    ‘canary in the coal mine’. Chronic extreme
    exercise appears to cause excessive
    ‘wear-and-tear’ on the heart, inducing
    adverse structural and electrical remodeling,
    which offsets some of the CV benefits and
    longevity improvements conferred by moderate
    physical activity. Thus, even though
    chronic extreme exercise may not kill you, it
    may erase many of the health advantages of
    regular moderate exercise."


    This is the key paragraph for me in the article I linked yesterday, there's a lot of "may's" in it and I would like to see a lot more conclusive research on the topic. I won't be changing my moderate to high exercise regime just yet! As anecdotal observations I have made is that runners live longer and healthier lives than non runners and that includes those that run marathons.


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    #117
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,063 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    99% of people who take part in marathon running are only ever running at moderate intensity.

    The lads who are knocking out 26 sub5's in a row can be classed as putting in some extreme effort, the rest of us are not. Of course we all claim otherwise up the pub afterwards.


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    #118
    average_runner
    Registered Users Posts: 12,845 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    youtube! wrote: »
    He didnt smoke, wasnt ever a diabetic (i know this because I am still best mates with his son) wasnt overweight, dunno about hight blood pressure or cholesterol but I can find out, stress meh thats all rubbish about stress causing heart problems in the first place,


    more proof

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/04/110405194101.htm


    Stress is a very big factor in heart issues for god sake. When you do a medical the first thing they want to know is how stress out you get. It causes blood pressure to rise.


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    #119
    MrCreosote
    Registered Users Posts: 2,320 ✭✭✭MrCreosote


    The whole "strenuous exercise is bad for you so don't do it" argument is total bull. So much of what we do is not optimal for health.

    If you're exercising purely for longevity then fine, keep it to moderate exercise. If you want to exercise strenuously or do endurance events because shock, horror, you enjoy doing them, then go for it.

    And please, no more "I know someone who exercised like crazy and dropped dead at 50" It adds nothing to any argument. What you don't know is how long he would have lived if he never exercised. Look at Jim Fixx- died at 52 while running is all you ever hear about, but he had been a heavy smoker and his father had a heart attack at 35 and died at 42...


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    #120
    rom
    Registered Users Posts: 5,135 ✭✭✭rom


    Next time someone say running marathons is dangerous ask them do you know anyone that has died from running marathons or shortly afterwards ?
    Answer will probably be no.

    Then ask do you know anyone who has died from or had any of the following ?
    1. Heart disease.
    2. Cancer.
    3. Obesity related disease.
    4. Suicide.
    5. Diabetes.
    6. Stroke.
    7. Respiratory system diseases.

    Then ask the person do you think lack of exercise is risk factor towards each of you just mentioned. Then ask them has a member of their own family died from one of these and if so why are they living sedimentary life because what they are doing is much more dangerous to their health.


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    #121
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,295 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    youtube! wrote: »
    stress meh thats all rubbish about stress causing heart problems in the first placel
    As opposed the bollox you've written so far? You attribute X Y znd Z, but not stress, even though it's a factor in heart related deaths. Heck, I'd say stress kills more people than any marathon does!

    =-=

    http://www.justgiving.com/Claire-Squires2

    £941,369 so far raised.

    May the never ending track be dry and clear :)


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