Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all,
Vanilla are planning an update to the site on April 24th (next Wednesday). It is a major PHP8 update which is expected to boost performance across the site. The site will be down from 7pm and it is expected to take about an hour to complete. We appreciate your patience during the update.
Thanks all.

Swine Flu & Ethnic Targetting

  • 30-04-2009 2:39am
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 857 ✭✭✭


    I Just noticed that the 23 month old victim of Swine Flu was in fact Mexican
    American officials reported the first swine flu fatality outside of Mexico, but it transpired that a 23-month-old baby boy who died in Texas was a Mexican taken ill while visiting relatives in the town of Brownsville.
    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article6192735.ece

    And bearing in mind the minimal impact on non-Mexicans that maybe the virus is supposed to target ethnic groups.

    This 1999 article from The Independent states
    GENETICALLY engineered biological weapons capable of targeting particular ethnic groups could become reality within 10 years, an expert panel warned yesterday.


    Viruses and other micro- organisms tailored to detect the differences in the DNA of races could offer warmakers and terrorists of the future a new means to carry out "ethnic cleansing", said the panel convened by the British Medical Association (BMA).


    Yet the scientific advances that would make such weapons possible will be a spin-off of two areas of medicine with potentially huge benefits. The first is the Human Genome Project, which aims to unravel the 100,000 or so genes in human DNA by 2003. The other is the nascent technology of gene therapy, which tries to repair defective genes in the body.


    Launching a book entitled Biotechnology, Weapons and Humanity, members of the panel insisted yesterday that they were not scaremongering. "We went into this being very sceptical, with a position that `It can't be done'," said Professor Vivienne Nathanson, the BMA's head of health policy and research. "But then after examining what is going on we decided that it might be possible after all."
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/germ-warfare-could-target-ethnic-groups-1075365.html

    So it can't be discounted as impossible. Any thoughts?


«1345

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Might have something to do with the virus starting in Mexico.
    Just a thought.


  • Registered Users Posts: 645 ✭✭✭rockmongrel


    ^^ Ditto.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,869 ✭✭✭Mahatma coat


    Tis not improbabvle that if this was an engineered Virus then it has been engineered to attack only certain elements of society.

    I wonder what the Genetic marker is that they use, Skin tone, Eye colour or maybe something specific in Genomes that can target ethnicity??


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Or it could be because it started in Mexico.


    And I'm not sure but I don't think viruses can be made to work that way.


  • Registered Users Posts: 857 ✭✭✭kamobe


    Maybe it's just more virulent in warm climates? Most of the other cases have been reported further north or in cooler areas like the UK and Ireland. It's winter here in Sydney and New Zealand and the cases here have been very mild to date as well...


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,898 ✭✭✭✭seanybiker


    I dont post in here much but I think this conspiracy might be a little far fetched to be honest.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13 all is violent


    I'm 99% sure it is impossible to genetically engineer a virus to target one ethnic group considering there are no biological differences between races


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,869 ✭✭✭Mahatma coat


    No biological differences, None at all, not even the slightest Biological difference between different Races, tiny things like Skintone, Slanty or round eyes, the prevelance of curly or straight hair, eye colour, all I'm sayin is that I've seen doccos where they could take a DNA sample and then tell you yer historic lineage, Ie if you were a Viking or a Roman or a Celt etc..... thats what I based the theory of there being some kind of genetic marker that could be targeted.

    But obviously you have incontrivertable evidence to back up your position, right?


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    No biological differences, None at all, not even the slightest Biological difference between different Races, tiny things like Skintone, Slanty or round eyes, the prevelance of curly or straight hair, eye colour, all I'm sayin is that I've seen doccos where they could take a DNA sample and then tell you yer historic lineage, Ie if you were a Viking or a Roman or a Celt etc..... thats what I based the theory of there being some kind of genetic marker that could be targeted.

    But obviously you have incontrivertable evidence to back up your position, right?
    Again could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure viruses don't act on any genetic markers.
    And I don't think there is a mechanism that would allow them to do so.

    Have you any evidence to suggest it can or does?
    You making the claim and all.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 857 ✭✭✭Sofa_King Good


    King Mob wrote: »
    Might have something to do with the virus starting in Mexico.
    Just a thought.

    That has yet to be established to be fair - Mexico claims it started in Asia.
    Miguel Angel Lezana, the director of the National Centre for Disease Control, said that genetic information in the H1N1 virus show it is more similar to types of flu that affect pigs in Central and East Asia.


    "This corresponds to a Eurasian strain," he said. "It is probable that this strain is not circulating among pigs on the American continent."



    "It is extremely unlikely that the virus made the mutation in La Gloria," he said.
    Mr Lezana said that it is more likely that the virus was carried by people travelling from Asia to the US.
    Mexican immigrants could then have brought the virus back home with them, he suggested.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/swine-flu/5244801/Swine-flu-Mexico-claims-it-started-in-Asia.html


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 5,473 ✭✭✭robtri


    The Virus might have started in Mexico, but there have been many non-mexicans in mexico and not one of them has died...and many cases outside mexico and not one non mexican has died yet.. it is interesting....
    I would be sure, that particular virus's can be genetically modified to target particular ethnic groups, it would make a perfect bio weapon... think what the military could do with it, expose a country to a virus, much more powerful than swine flu and then send in their troops and not have to worry about them being effected by the bio weapon...

    i


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 857 ✭✭✭Sofa_King Good


    Here are some more quotes.
    Professor Steve Yearley, Director of the ESRC Genomics Forum commented:
    “In recent years, scientists have learned a great deal about some of humankind's most dangerous enemies, such as smallpox, cholera, polio and influenza. The genetic codes for disease-causing micro organisms have been sequenced and, in some cases, the viruses themselves have been re-created in laboratories.



    “Although much of this knowledge can be usefully put towards developing life-saving treatments and vaccines, there is, in today's post-9/11 world, increasing global concern that this knowledge might also facilitate bioterrorism.



    “This debate will introduce recent advances in biological research and explore how the ‘dual-use’ of this knowledge necessarily creates both benefits and potential hazards. The chair, discussants and audience will debate the freedoms of scientists to create diseases; how society can control and defend against the misuse of such activity; and ultimately, what policy makers are doing to strengthen global 'biosecurity’.”


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 857 ✭✭✭Sofa_King Good


    I'm 99% sure it is impossible to genetically engineer a virus to target one ethnic group considering there are no biological differences between races

    here is further info:
    The Human Genome Project may now open the door to the development and use of genetic weapons targeted at specific ethnic groups. This project is currently being conducted under the auspices of the U.S. Energy Department, which also oversees America’s nuclear weapon arsenal.



    In October 1997, Dr. Wayne Nathanson, chief of the Science and Ethics Department of the Medical Society of the United Kingdom, warned the annual meeting of the Society that “gene therapy” might possibly be turned into “gene weapons” which could potentially be used to target particular genes possessed by certain groups of people.


    These weapons, Nathanson warned, could be delivered not only in the forms already seen in warfare such as gas and aerosol, but could also be added to water supplies, causing not only death but sterility and birth defects in targeted groups.



    Current estimates of the cost of developing a “gene weapon” have been placed at around $50 million, still quite a stretch for an isolated band of neo-Nazis, but well within the capabilities of covert government programs.


    On November 15, 1998, the London Times reported that Israel claimed to have successfully developed a genetically specific “ethnic bullet” that targets Arabs. When an Israeli government spokesman was asked to confirm the existence of ethnic weapons, he did not deny that they had them, but rather said, “we have a basket full of serious surprises that we will not hesitate to use if we feel that the state of Israel is under serious threat.” http://www.projectcensored.org/top-stories/articles/16-human-genome-project-opens-the-door-to-ethnically-specific-bioweapons/


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 857 ✭✭✭Sofa_King Good


    At the Human Genome Project -
    One kind of genetic variation being studied, relates to diseases that affect only certain populations or individuals. Often the variation in susceptibility to disease is due to environmental factors such as diet and exposure to parasites.

    But genetic pre-dispositions are also likely to play their part. DNA data, in association with statistical data about how different populations are actually affected by different diseases, may help researchers to identify genetic factors which may be associated with those diseases.

    Such information could be used to find ways of treating or preventing those diseases, or � as the programme reveals � be misused to target certain groups of people by using biologically active materials that threaten life instead of trying to save it.
    http://www.channel4.com/learning/main/netnotes/sectionid100664098.htm
    Most of the genes are identical in all humans, although they may contain minute differences that in most cases, have no effect on function. However, in some cases, even a single alteration in the sequence of base pairs that makes up the DNA can lead to susceptibility to disease, or perhaps resistance to disease. Other variations result in differences in physical features such as eye colour, blood group, height or hair colour.


    The more closely two people are related, the more likely they are to have the same variant genes � known as alleles. Groups of people with common ancestry � ethnic groups � are more likely to share particular alleles, and hence physical traits or biological susceptibilities, than people from a different ethnic origin.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,858 ✭✭✭Undergod


    No biological differences, None at all, not even the slightest Biological difference between different Races, tiny things like Skintone, Slanty or round eyes, the prevelance of curly or straight hair, eye colour, all I'm sayin is that I've seen doccos where they could take a DNA sample and then tell you yer historic lineage, Ie if you were a Viking or a Roman or a Celt etc..... thats what I based the theory of there being some kind of genetic marker that could be targeted.

    But obviously you have incontrivertable evidence to back up your position, right?

    I think the historic lineage thing is based on similar Y-Chromosone and mDNA to samples collected in an area where the historical lineage is known, but I could be wrong.

    There have been claims all right that you can't determine race from DNA, though personally that seems unlikely to me. There are claims on both sides, but it seems to be that the amount of genetic material that determines race is at most astonishingly tiny. The question I would have would be even if it is possible to make a virus that would only work against people with certain genes or whatever, would it be possible to make one that could reliably work on this tiny amount.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 857 ✭✭✭Sofa_King Good


    This is strange and may be connected. Dr David Kelly the MOD WMD expert who committed "suicide" may have been connected and also to other micro-biologists that died in strange circumstances.
    http://www.rense.com/general40/dead.htm

    [SIZE=+1]The two American scientists he ( dr kelly) had worked with were Benito Que, 52, and Don Wiley, 57. Both microbiologists had been engaged in DNA sequencing that could provide "a genetic marker based on genetic profiling." The research could play an important role in developing weaponized pathogens to hit selected groups of humans - identifying them by race. Two years ago, both men were found dead, in circumstances never fully explained.[/SIZE]


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 857 ✭✭✭Sofa_King Good


    more connections to Israel.
    ISRAEL is working on a biological weapon that would harm Arabs but not Jews, according to Israeli military and western intelligence sources. The weapon, targeting victims by ethnic origin, is seen as Israel's response to Iraq's threat of chemical and biological attacks.
    In developing their "ethno-bomb", Israeli scientists are trying to exploit medical advances by identifying distinctive genes carried by some Arabs, then create a genetically modified bacterium or virus.

    The intention is to use the ability of viruses and certain bacteria to alter the DNA inside their host's living cells. The scientists are
    trying to engineer deadly micro-organisms that attack only those bearing the distinctive genes.

    The programme is based at the biological institute in Nes Tziyona, the main research facility for Israel's clandestine arsenal of chemical and biological weapons.

    A scientist there said the task was hugely complicated because both Arabs and Jews are of semitic origin. But he added: "They have, however, succeeded in pinpointing a particular characteristic in the genetic profile of certain Arab communities, particularly the Iraqi people." The disease could be spread by spraying the organisms into the air or putting them in water supplies.
    Dr Daan Goosen, head of a South African chemical and biological warfare plant, said his team was ordered in the 1980s to develop a "pigmentation weapon" to target only black people. He said the team discussed spreading a disease in beer, maize or even vaccinations but never managed to develop one.

    However, a confidential Pentagon report warned last year that biological agents could be genetically engineered to produce new lethal weapons. William Cohen, the American defence secretary, revealed that he had received reports of countries working to create "certain types of pathogens that would be ethnic-specific". A senior western intelligence source confirmed last week that Israel was one of the countries Cohen had in mind.

    The "ethno-bomb" claims have been given further credence in Foreign Report, a Jane's publication that closely monitors security and defence matters. It reports unnamed South African sources as saying Israeli scientists have used some of the South African research in trying to develop an "ethnic bullet" against Arabs.

    It also says Israelis discovered aspects of the Arab genetic make-up by researching on "Jews of Arab origin, especially Iraqis"
    .
    http://www.peace.ca/geneticwarfare.htm


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,443 ✭✭✭✭bonkey


    There seems to be a missing link here.

    Genetic weapons are certainly theoretically possible, although I'm not sure that there is a (known) working example.

    However, in order to theorise that an influenza-strain could be genetically targetted, one would have to show that either the normal infection mechanism for influenza is already genetically selective or that this influenza strain has a completely new infection mechanism - in effect, it is not influenza at all.

    I would argue that the latter possibility should be ruled out in the absence of evidence that this is not influenza...especially considering that no-one seems to have had issue with the analysis of this strain containing aspects of avian, human and swine strains.

    This leaves us with the first option. In order for this strain to be ethnically or genetically targetted, we need to show that influenza's infection mechanism is (even theoretically) capable of such selection.

    I'm not aware of any naturally-occurring flu strains which have been documented as showing ethnic or genetic selection, so I'm inclined to say that the evidence is currently lacking to support such a notion.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,858 ✭✭✭Undergod


    It also says Israelis discovered aspects of the Arab genetic make-up by researching on "Jews of Arab origin, especially Iraqis" .

    So the ethnic weapon would kill their own Jewish citizens of Arab ethnicity? That's a bit stupid.

    Is there any word on the origin of the virus yet? Has this kind of hybrid occurred before, with genes from different strains of flu?


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,443 ✭✭✭✭bonkey


    more connections to Israel.

    There's no connection at all that I can see between Israel and this flu, even bearing the information that you quoted in mind.

    Could you explain the connection that you see?

    Israel are repored to be working on a bio-weapon against arabs...

    ...???...

    ...and so are connected to a flu which may be targetting Mexicans.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 4,388 ✭✭✭Kernel


    King Mob wrote: »
    Or it could be because it started in Mexico.


    And I'm not sure but I don't think viruses can be made to work that way.

    I asked the question in biology forum a good while back as to whether the HIV virus is more ethno-specific in terms of infection. Couldn't get a straight answer. There was some studies I remember reading a long time ago that suggested infection risk was increased in African and Asian ethnicities. I don't see why it couldn't be done with todays technology.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 857 ✭✭✭Sofa_King Good


    bonkey wrote: »
    There seems to be a missing link here.

    I'm not sure I entirely understand but I am not suggesting that the infection process is any different here but the effects on different ethnic groups are.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 857 ✭✭✭Sofa_King Good


    Undergod wrote: »
    So the ethnic weapon would kill their own Jewish citizens of Arab ethnicity? That's a bit stupid.
    eh well only if Israel dropped their "bomb" on Israel.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 857 ✭✭✭Sofa_King Good


    bonkey wrote: »
    There's no connection at all that I can see between Israel and this flu, even bearing the information that you quoted in mind.

    Could you explain the connection that you see?

    Israel are repored to be working on a bio-weapon against arabs...

    ...???...

    ...and so are connected to a flu which may be targetting Mexicans.

    Israel along with South Africa were apparently researching ethnic specific diseases.

    I've put forward that this flu may be an ethnic specific disease.

    Also, Dr Kelly one of the many now dead micro-biologists was alleged to have done some work in a research facility in Israel.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 857 ✭✭✭Sofa_King Good


    I would put forward two possibilities here.

    1. Population Control

    Here David Rockefeller outlines his concerns
    http://www.apfn.org/apfn/population.htm

    and

    2. This kind of elitist thinking
    In this new era, the single most immediate and most serious challenge to America's traditional identity comes from the immense and continuing immigration from Latin America, especially from Mexico, and the fertility rates of these immigrants compared to black and white American natives.

    Americans like to boast of their past success in assimilating millions of immigrants into their society, culture, and politics. But Americans have tended to generalize about immigrants without distinguishing among them and have focused on the economic costs and benefits of immigration, ignoring its social and cultural consequences. As a result, they have overlooked the unique characteristics and problems posed by contemporary Hispanic immigration.

    The extent and nature of this immigration differ fundamentally from those of previous immigration, and the assimilation successes of the past are unlikely to be duplicated with the contemporary flood of immigrants from Latin America. This reality poses a fundamental question: Will the United States remain a country with a single national language and a core Anglo-Protestant culture?

    By ignoring this question, Americans acquiesce to their eventual transformation into two peoples with two cultures (Anglo and Hispanic) and two languages (English and Spanish).

    - Samuel P Huntington
    http://www.danieldrezner.com/policy/hash.htm
    http://popdev.hampshire.edu/projects/dt/29


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,388 ✭✭✭Kernel


    Here David Rockefeller outlines his concerns
    http://www.apfn.org/apfn/population.htm

    He's never too far away from NWO agenda. :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,858 ✭✭✭Undergod


    eh well only if Israel dropped their "bomb" on Israel.

    eh, diseases spread. Though I don't know what the state of Israel's border security is, pretty good I'd imagine? Still seems like a terrible risk.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,537 ✭✭✭thecommander


    I would put forward two possibilities here.

    Have you considered that its a natural jump from pig to a pig handler? Virus then mutated and is spreadable from human to human?

    Rather than a conspiracy?


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Kernel wrote: »
    I asked the question in biology forum a good while back as to whether the HIV virus is more ethno-specific in terms of infection. Couldn't get a straight answer. There was some studies I remember reading a long time ago that suggested infection risk was increased in African and Asian ethnicities. I don't see why it couldn't be done with todays technology.
    Might have something to do with the low rate of condom use in Africa.
    Oh and in case you haven't noticed AIDS and HIV can infect anyone.

    There are hundreds of other factors that would account for stuff like this, location of the initial outbreak, quality of the health care system in the area, local attitudes towards disease and so on.

    And for all these examples of theoretical bioweapons not one is anything like swine flu. There is no evidence at all to suggest that swine flu is a bioweapon.
    Oh and non Mexicans can be infected.

    But hey if you can link a Rockefeller and Israel to to it there's no other explanation right?


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 5,473 ✭✭✭robtri


    King Mob wrote: »

    And for all these examples of theoretical bioweapons not one is anything like swine flu. There is no evidence at all to suggest that swine flu is a bioweapon.
    Oh and non Mexicans can be infected.

    and there is no evidence to suggest it is not a bio weapon... have you evidence to support that?

    oh, everybody can be infected, but only a certain ethnic group have been Killed by it so far...


Advertisement