Muslims asked to remove headscarves for new Garda card

dlofnep wrote: »

Proper order. Religion is not a get out of jail free card when it comes to observing law.

It is you're a pedo priest... oh you meant other religions.

dirtyden wrote: »

The purpose of an ID card is to uniquely identify the owner. I do not see how that is possible with a Hijab on. Unless another unique identifier is associated with the ID like a retinal scan or fingerprint that can be easily read by wherever needs the ID I am afraid I dont see how the Garda could sanction the ID.

If the Islamic council comes up with a workable solution then fair enough, until then they should abide by the law of the land.

LINK

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

....Unsurprising considering the amount of nouveau wannabe right-wingers/brow-beating athiests you find in AH these days.

Oh Yeah! Bring back De Valeras 1950's Ireland! Put them all living with de nuns and de brothers...Then we wouldn't have this problem! Simples

pmcmahon wrote: »

Yes unless on church property,just look at the rest of the secular republics in western Europe.

Yeah France.. fine example there. What you're talking about borders on fascism.

pmcmahon wrote: »

No it's being a secular republic.Read a book.

Just any book?

What will banning all outward displays of religion in Ireland achieve?

irishconvert wrote: »

How does a head scarf matter? Should a woman who has long hair when the photo is taken not be allowed cut her hair or dye it in the future as she will no longer look exactly the same as the photo? Nonsense argument and showing the true colours of the anti-Islam posters.

Its not about being anti-anything. Hair is natural, head scarves or other face-masks are not.

You are required to remove a helmet as a cyclist when entering a bank, thats given you remove it for passport pictures.

In terms of ant-anything. Whats this headline say to Irish people?

Islamic terrorists issue threat against Jedward ahead of Eurovision - http://www.independent.ie/entertainment/music/islamic-terrorists-issue-threat-against-jedward-ahead-of-eurovision-3080269.html

irishconvert wrote: »

But if a woman has long black hair when the photo is taken, and then she cuts it short and dyes it blond, she will look totally different. A woman wearing a head scarf would be more recognisable.


What has this got to do with anything? Please tell me the relevance.

I don't know how to multi-quote.

1. How can changing the colour of your hair be equated with concealing your face behind a mask or covering it under a scarf? Is wearing a head-scarf like someone undergoing radiotherapy losing his or her hair, ultimately changing his or her appearance?

2. You are pulling the anti-Islam card. No one said anything about being anti-Islam. Irish people in general don't have a problem with Islam or Muslims.

The reason I posted that was to highlight where a source of this alleged anti-Islam sentiment may stem. When Europeans are referred to as scum, it can hardly promote friendly relations. So it can hardly be a surprise *if* there is a perceived anti-Islam sentiment.

WHAT THE HELL!? My photo got rejected because my fringe was sligggggggghtly in the way, how are they getting away with this?!

I didn't read the whole thread. It's late. I got to page 2 and skipped to the end.
But as someone at the beginning said, it's not necessary to remove the headscarve for passport photo's.

The reason is because it doesn't stop them from being identified. This isn't a full burka. It covers just their hair.

For many muslims it's an important part of their culture. This is ireland. It's not Kemal Ataturks Turkey where soldiers went out into the streets and tore scarves and veils from womens faces. Here people are allowed to express their culture so long as it's within the bounds of the law. In this case no law was broken. It wasn't the law (unless you refer to the gardai as the "law") that forced these women to remove the hijab, it was a stupid regulation.

In my telling women what not to wear is as bad as telling them what to wear.

@mishkalucy. Muslims follow not just the Koran but hadiths too. Just as christians don't just follow the bible.

I'm not sure why you're referencing that sura in respect to this argument

There is no compulsion in religion. Verily, the Right Path has become distinct from the wrong path. Whoever disbelieves in Tâghût and believes in God (ar. Allah), then he has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that will never break. And God is All-Hearer, All-Knower.

I would think this is more relevant and does actually state that women should cover themselves

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijab#Qur.27an

(I know people are going to jump on it and say that women shouldn't have to wear anything. What I'm saying is that if they choose to wear a hijab and it's an integral part of their religion/culture, then they should be allowed the same religious freedom others have. I mean, you don't hear of Sikh men being called oppressed or being prevented from wearing turbans)

I have no problem respecting people and their culture/religion, be it what it is. But it's annoying that the rules would not be bent if I was in a muslim country. But it is expected that rules are broken here or else "discrimination and racism" is shouted out.

mishkalucy wrote: »

@ Grayson
I have no problem whatsoever with them wearing whatever they like and as you stated that they "should" not must wear the hijab.
You didn't comment on the part off my post as to the women being allowed wear scarves for other elements of modesty ie baldness.
I referenced that as that was what I found when reading up before posting tonight, nothing more, nothing less as I don't claim to be an expert in sharia law:)
Surely though you can accept that for a couple of minutes in a photo booth would not cause them to become harlots or any less of a muslim woman?

Baldness is different to religious belief. (Although it does bring up a thought. if a man/woman is bald and wears a wig permanently, do they need to keep it on or off. And I don't mean for modesty, I mean for identification purposes. I know if you wear glasses permanently and they're clear, you can wear them in passport photo's).

See, for a muslim woman who wears a hijab, it is part of their religion. It's not just about modesty. It is part of their religious dress. It would be like forcing a nun who's taken a vow of silence to talk or making a cloistered order walk outside everyday.

Plus on the modesty aspect, they're used to it. Taking it off does make them feel crappy. Imagine how you'd feel if you had to have an ID photo taken in your bra.
Now if it were necessary for legal or practical reasons because for some reason we used nipples to identify women that would be one thing. But we don't, so there's no actual reason to make them do it. It's the same in this case. When there's no legal or practical reason, the only reason we have for doing it is to force them to abide by our rules for the sake of the rules.
And that's as wrong countries that make women wear particular clothes because it's the rule in that country.

Do you see what I mean?

tigger123 wrote: »

Should all legislation be thought up on a tit-for-tat basis?

Yes it should. But only when it's funny.