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Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

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  • Registered Users Posts: 853 ✭✭✭EDDIE WATERS


    NO NO NO NO NO


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,357 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    lugha wrote: »
    Ok, if you think such things important. But what will it do to make a meaningful contribution to the solutions of our problems? Nothing!

    Such things are important, or rather they should be important.
    Leading by example and the law applying to one and all equally is key to turn this country around.
    The money, well, we'll have the same issues again down the line if the people at the top, and those that support them, dont realise that they and their attitude has to change.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,731 ✭✭✭Bullseye1


    kippy wrote: »
    Sorry, don't shoot the messenger.

    Oh I'm not shooting you. Just this whole explaination being spouted out that we cannot expect services for nothing. We pay for everything in this country including water no matter what others say. All our tax goes into one pot and is distributed towards the different services. We simply have never got value for money. Wasteful management of our finances by central government and local government. It's time this waste was eliminated.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,717 ✭✭✭jluv


    dvpower wrote: »
    ... would require funding.
    Which I already gave and did not recieve?


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,357 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    Bullseye1 wrote: »
    Oh I'm not shooting you. Just this whole explaination being spouted out that we cannot expect services for nothing. We pay for everything in this country including water no matter what others say. All our tax goes into one pot and is distributed towards the different services. We simply have never got value for money. Wasteful management of our finances by central government and local government. It's time this waste was eliminated.

    I agree, regarding the waste, however the state does require further funding.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,235 ✭✭✭lugha


    Ah, the irony of an opponent to the house "tax" citing a story about tax defaulters!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 974 ✭✭✭BarackPyjama


    lugha wrote: »
    Thieving? Why do you call it thieving? Do you imagine that they pocketed the €170 million for themselves? We have a massive deficit to bridge and this is one of the many things they will do (i.e. restructure how local services are funded). You might call it many things, but thieving is just silly.

    Well let's call it what it is then - a precursor to a property tax that's most likely going to increase every year to the point where it becomes crippling to an already struggling taxpayer. Thieving sounds okay to me actually.

    The Irish government are clever. Introduce a tax that they can increase on a whim and bridge whatever bloody deficit they want, whenever they want, regardless of whether it's of their own making or not... and make it a permanent tax on people who own their own homes. People who can't escape the country basically.

    I don't own my own home but anyone who chooses not to pay this charge has my wholehearted support.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,731 ✭✭✭Bullseye1


    kippy wrote: »
    I agree, regarding the waste, however the state does require further funding.

    But the point is it wouldn't need as much.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,357 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    Bullseye1 wrote: »
    But the point is it wouldn't need as much.
    Indeed, I also agree with that logic, however we now have a debt of 100+ billion, even if these debts just get rolled over, it would be nice if we managed to pay this off, if only not to burden future generations.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Bullseye1 wrote: »
    Wasteful management of our finances by central government and local government. It's time this waste was eliminated.
    One of the upsides of moving towards a more direct funding model is that people do begin to question where their money is going and how efficiently its being spent.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,568 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    dvpower wrote: »
    I want evidence to back up what you said i.e. that the government are thieving money.
    You are providing links to something entirely different.

    You're very loose with your language around here biggins.

    Let me see - so you know accept that the government has taken and will continue to take €170 million out of council funding years, right?
    Good, glad you see that.

    As for the thieving...

    When they force by people to cough up not once but twice for the same four walls and roof - I call that thieving.

    You may call it justified - but then how many times are you going to allow yourself to be taxed (if the government so decides at will) upon any singular item you might possess? Two times? Five? Ten?

    What number of times are you happy with to be tax upon multiple times - for the same item?


    ...And just because the government says so - or others arguments "we have a deficit" - that STILL DON'T make it right!



    O' and if (again) you watch the videos of the Late Late, you will here a FG minister admit that councils are "ring-fenced" (HIS EXACT WORDS) - but that didn't stop them previous and now from taking the 170 million!

    So much for ring-fencing.
    The government still comes along and takes it? I call that thieving!
    I'm sure you will disagree!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,560 ✭✭✭porsche boy


    lugha wrote: »
    Ah, the irony of an opponent to the house "tax" citing a story about tax defaulters!

    i was just proving a point and I'm not really in the same league, am I?

    edit: Rhetorical question, I'm not.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Thieving sounds okay to me actually.
    But remains inaccurate.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,663 ✭✭✭Cork24


    IF i get my 21 Euro Tables & Chairs from LittleWoods I will pay the Household Charge!! :cool:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 54 ✭✭MightyBouche


    No, not really. That does not change the facts whatsoever. I would say I hope you see why, but you clearly don't, although truth and facts are things the "don't register, don't pay" group aren't really familiar with.

    The ignorance of the "don't register, don't pay" crowd is pretty astounding.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,235 ✭✭✭lugha


    Well let's call it what it is then - a precursor to a property tax that's most likely going to increase every year to the point where it becomes crippling to an already struggling taxpayer. Thieving sounds okay to me actually.
    You do realise that the deficit will be bridged? If not with the aid of this tax, then by another or others, paid for by ..... the tax payer.

    The taxpayer WILL be paying. One way or another.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Biggins wrote: »
    As for the thieving...

    When they force by people to cough up not once but twice for the same four walls and roof - I call that thieving.
    You can call it thieving, but you must know that, in fact, it is not.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 974 ✭✭✭BarackPyjama


    dvpower wrote: »
    But remains inaccurate.

    I disagree. New taxes that are against the will of the majority in a supposedly democratic nation is theft.


  • Registered Users Posts: 716 ✭✭✭phil1nj


    lugha wrote: »
    Ok, if you think such things important. But what will it do to make a meaningful contribution to the solutions of our problems? Nothing!

    It'll lend a bit of credence to the mantra that has been spouted since the **** hit the fan back in 2007/8. that we are all in this together, that we are we are and that sacrifices have to be made to get us back on the road to recovery. Ok, so its highly likely that the money saved from these adjustments wouldn't in themselves make a significant dent in the budget deficit but it would enable the government to make the cuts that need to be made right across the board without having to endure shouts of hypocrisy from all sides (which is currently the case).

    Also, people on here seem to think that money/taxation/revenues are the be all and end of all of our problems. There's a particular mindset amongst those in power that needs to change also. A sense of entitlement (as embodied by Phil Hogan and his ilk) that screams that they should be allowed their perks (unvouched expenses, living allowances, generous-in-the-extreme pensions) but the little people who pay taxes are the ones who must do all of the heavy lifting. Bollox I say to them. If they want to lead let them lead but do it in a meaningful way down at the coalface with the rest of us.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Cork24 wrote: »
    IF i get my 21 Euro Tables & Chairs from LittleWoods I will pay the Household Charge!! :cool:
    That's a No so. ;)


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,663 ✭✭✭Cork24


    dvpower wrote: »
    That's a No so. ;)

    Ah you got me their :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,717 ✭✭✭jluv


    lugha wrote: »
    You do realise that the deficit will be bridged? If not with the aid of this tax, then by another or others, paid for by ..... the tax payer.

    The taxpayer WILL be paying. One way or another.
    But be upfront and tell me what I am paying for. Thats all I am asking for.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,568 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    dvpower wrote: »
    You can call it thieving, but you must know that, in fact, it is not.

    To repeat my add-on to my previous post:
    O' and if (again) you watch the videos of the Late Late, you will here a FG minister admit that councils are "ring-fenced" (HIS EXACT WORDS) - but that didn't stop them previous and now from taking the 170 million!

    So much for ring-fencing.
    The government still comes along and takes it? I call that thieving!
    I'm sure you will disagree!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 54 ✭✭MightyBouche


    lugha wrote: »
    You do realise that the deficit will be bridged? If not with the aid of this tax, then by another or others, paid for by ..... the tax payer.

    The taxpayer WILL be paying. One way or another.
    Exactly and I'm not sure how this point evades so many of this "don't register, don't pay" crowd.

    Their unwillingness to pay will merely see the money being taken from more crucial services, such as the police and hospitals.As I said previously, it's ignorant, selfish and horrendously short sighted.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 974 ✭✭✭BarackPyjama


    lugha wrote: »
    You do realise that the deficit will be bridged? If not with the aid of this tax, then by another or others, paid for by ..... the tax payer.

    The taxpayer WILL be paying. One way or another.

    I thought this was to be used for local services?

    I'm not naive. I appreciate that there's a massive deficit. What I would call for is honesty from the government and a short-term taxation solution specifically tailored to balance the deficit and not an indefinite tax on peoples' homes. It's just an excuse for the government to run wild and introduce crippling and fluctuating taxation.


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,061 ✭✭✭✭Terry


    Are criminals allowed to decided the length of their sentences and where they serve them?
    No.
    However people who are jailed for fines rarely get past the holding cells of Mountjoy.
    Trust me. I've been there 4 times for fines and the most I ever did was a day.

    To be fair, I should have done the week I got for the first two fines as thy were for driving offences. The other two were for no tv licence.
    They tend to keep the cells for real criminals though.
    If you are going down the road of not paying there could be other consequences for you and your private property. Inform yourself of all the facts.

    http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/bills28/bills/2011/7411/b7411s.pdf
    I'm not going to read that.
    I'll just tell now that I own my home outright. No rent or mortgage. It's 100% mine.

    I'm still not paying a tax for having a roof over my head.

    baldymac wrote: »
    developers didnt get punished so why should we
    Punish them for what?


    Bribery, tax evasion, corruption etc.
    Are you trolling, or are you really naive?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    I disagree. New taxes that are against the will of the majority in a supposedly democratic nation is theft.

    You have a different definition for theft so. Perhaps you should report this theft to the lawful authorities.

    a : the act of stealing; specifically : the felonious taking and removing of personal property with intent to deprive the rightful owner of it
    b : an unlawful taking (as by embezzlement or burglary) of property


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,182 ✭✭✭housetypeb


    "People should not fear their government, their government should fear the people"
    Do we work for the government or do they work for us?
    If the majority of people are clearly against this badly thought out tax by the government -why do they insist on pushing it through?


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,357 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    Exactly and I'm not sure how this point evades so many of this "don't register, don't pay" crowd.

    Their unwillingness to pay will merely see the money being taken from more crucial services, such as the police and hospitals.As I said previously, it's ignorant, selfish and horrendously short sighted.

    The tax payer/the consumer will pick up the tab eventually for every **** up that has been made, ever has been made, and ever will be made. The fairness of the amount of "picking up" that has to be done by an individual does need to be questioned from time to time however.
    Its that simple.
    However some people (I dont know the percentage) are choosing not to pay this charge (at least initially) to try send some form of a message to those in charge that:
    1. They arent happy with how their money is being spent, they have taken a lot but this time they want to see some real change.
    2. There is one law for them, and one law for the rich and those in power. Time to see some proper criminal investigations/charges.
    3. The communication around this charge has been a joke and these things need to improve.

    At least thats what I am thinking anyway.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 974 ✭✭✭BarackPyjama


    dvpower wrote: »
    You have a different definition for theft so. Perhaps you should report this theft to the lawful authorities.

    a : the act of stealing; specifically : the felonious taking and removing of personal property with intent to deprive the rightful owner of it
    b : an unlawful taking (as by embezzlement or burglary) of property

    Embezzlement being the misappropriation of funds. Thank you for your time.


This discussion has been closed.
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