Where would I stand if I was knocked down.

Mossess · 22-09-2014 2:56pm #1

I just read a very interesting article on a guy who hit a stationary parked truck while on his commute to work and broke his back.

That got me thinking. You see if I’m in an accident on the way to work in my car I have insurance. It’s fully comp and has all the frills. I’m pretty sure everything would be paid for till I get better - medical, wages and the car. But on my bike If I was to his a stationary object, ie no one else to blame, and I did seriously injure myself – where would I stand? I have VHI but that’s only so good. Work won’t pay me to be sick. I’ve bills to pay.
The commute is great, skipping traffic and no costs involved. But I’m seriously beginning to wonder is it worth it. One moment of lost concentration could be a disaster, not only for me, but my family. Can you get a bike insurance to cover this?

Rogaine2 · 22-09-2014 3:16pm

Move over to the thread about tractors on the m50. If you're going to hit a stationery item, u shouldn't be driving

goz83 · 22-09-2014 3:23pm

With all the money you are saving, you could take out different type of insurance. I used to work for a company called combined insurance and the cover they offered was for this type of thing. They pay the customer, not the doctor/hospital when sick/injured. I don't know of other companies offering this, but I am sure there are a few. It can be handy, because you spend the cash on what you need. If you have VHI, then you can keep vhi and effectively claim separately for the same injury/illness. However, the company I mentioned have an annoying habit of trying to upsell you every few months. Ignore this

Iranoutofideas · 22-09-2014 3:25pm

Am I the only one thinking "If you get knocked down you won't be standing?"

Sorry lol

bazermc · 22-09-2014 3:26pm

You need something called Income protection or income continuance

Talk to you broker, certain companies (i presume I cannot name them) specialise in this sort of cover.

There is also tax relief at the higher rate available against the premiums.

martyc5674 · 22-09-2014 3:27pm

Mossess wrote: »

I just read a very interesting article on a guy who hit a stationary parked truck while on his commute to work and broke his back.

That got me thinking. You see if I’m in an accident on the way to work in my car I have insurance. It’s fully comp and has all the frills. I’m pretty sure everything would be paid for till I get better - medical, wages and the car. But on my bike If I was to his a stationary object, ie no one else to blame, and I did seriously injure myself – where would I stand? I have VHI but that’s only so good. Work won’t pay me to be sick. I’ve bills to pay.
The commute is great, skipping traffic and no costs involved. But I’m seriously beginning to wonder is it worth it. One moment of lost concentration could be a disaster, not only for me, but my family. Can you get a bike insurance to cover this?

Drag yourself into work through the pain barrier then let on it happened there

Seriously i dunno...I assume CI insurance is third party cover so no use to you...there are income protection plans(life assurance type stuff)...i used to have sportscover insurance through sportscoverdirect when i first started kitesurfing it was all the rage to be insured cos accidents were more common place, and they had an income protection part to their plan for a limited period.

But you could have an accident anywhere that could prevent you from work...and if you have your finances too finely balanced with no legroom you probably should have some income protection in place.
I dont!

Marty.

EC1000 · 22-09-2014 3:28pm

You can only ever claim for personal injuries if someone else is to blame (and is insured). If you crash your car (through your own fault), your insurance company will not pay out for injuries (comprehensive or not). If this was the case, every nut job on the planet would be crashing into things and trying to claim money. Therefore, car vs bike is not that relevant. (The relevance is probably that if you are in your car you are not as likely to be badly injured).

loyatemu · 22-09-2014 3:31pm

http://cyclesure.ie/ - they have a personal accident option.

you can also take out income-continuance insurance from some life-insurance companies. It's fairly pricey though.

CramCycle · 22-09-2014 3:34pm

My work has insurance to cover an employee out through injury or illness, must look up the details but I have full pay for 6 months at a minimum and either a continuation or settlement clause after this.

Buchaill_Mor · 22-09-2014 4:12pm

I would second the Income Protection Payment. Check with your job, they may have a scheme that you can pay into. If your are self employed, I think if it is paid out of Gross, it works out cheaper again. Talk to your broker/accountant, of if you have not got one, pick one.

ford2600 · 22-09-2014 4:15pm

Mossess wrote: »

That got me thinking. You see if I’m in an accident on the way to work in my car I have insurance. It’s fully comp and has all the frills. I’m pretty sure everything would be paid for till I get better - medical, wages and the car.

Sorry for the bad news, but your not covered in your car either for your own injuries on your own policy.

bazermc · 22-09-2014 4:48pm

ford2600 wrote: »

Sorry for the bad news, but your not covered in your car either for your own injuries on your own policy.

Unless someone in another car crashes into you you, doesnt the minumum third party insurance kick in then?

ford2600 · 22-09-2014 4:56pm

bazermc wrote: »

Unless someone in another car crashes into you you, doesnt the minumum third party insurance kick in then?

Yes if they are at fault/partly at fault. That is on their policy then.

Hard to blame a guy parked on side of road!

CramCycle · 22-09-2014 5:00pm

bazermc wrote: »

Unless someone in another car crashes into you you, doesnt the minumum third party insurance kick in then?

If another party crashes into you, their third party should cover you, in some cases your insurance will cover you until they can reclaim the costs but if, lets say, you crashed your car into a wall, on purpose, and no one else was involved, I think ford2600 is saying in this case your insurance does not cover you.

inc21 · 22-09-2014 6:23pm

Iranoutofideas wrote: »

Am I the only one thinking "If you get knocked down you won't be standing?"

Sorry lol

no. Sounds logical to me as well.

SwiftJustice · 22-09-2014 6:51pm

ford2600 wrote: »

Yes if they are at fault/partly at fault. That is on their policy then.

Hard to blame a guy parked on side of road!

Its happened before were an insurance company would not pay out on a car that was parked on the side of the road because the spare Tyre in the boot was bald and thus made the car unroad worthy and shouldn't have been on the road in the first place hahaha

cajonlardo · 22-09-2014 6:55pm

The comment above about dragging yourself to work reminded me of this.
Long time ago I had a job in a private hospital.
I was cycling to work and got hit by a stolen car. Hit hard enough to be thrown really high into the air. Picked myself up and realised bike was damaged and I was bruised and battered. I must have been in shock because I continued to work. When I got there I explained what had happened to the matron. You could see the scrapes, bruises and tears in my clothes. She looked at her watch for a moment and said " If you hurry you will have time to get a cup of tea to settle your nerves before your shift starts"

Hi Ho · 22-09-2014 8:28pm

Every now and then someone who gets knocked down posts here for advice. Some of the advice given is factually wrong (and some just bad advice but that's just MHO). Medical advice isn't allowed on Boards as it could damage your health. Some of the legal advice given can seriously damage your pocket - I'm not sure if it should be allowed either. If you are knocked down and injured go straight to a real expert - a solicitor.

Orion · 22-09-2014 9:03pm

If you're knocked down just hope you're as lucky as this guy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmnABODVFl0

RainyDay · 22-09-2014 10:43pm

Mossess wrote: »

You see if I’m in an accident on the way to work in my car I have insurance. It’s fully comp and has all the frills. I’m pretty sure everything would be paid for till I get better - medical, wages and the car.

EC1000 wrote: »

You can only ever claim for personal injuries if someone else is to blame (and is insured). If you crash your car (through your own fault), your insurance company will not pay out for injuries (comprehensive or not). If this was the case, every nut job on the planet would be crashing into things and trying to claim money. Therefore, car vs bike is not that relevant. (The relevance is probably that if you are in your car you are not as likely to be badly injured).

The 'fully comp' bit of car insurance refers to comprehensive no-fault cover relating to damage to your car, regardless of fault. So if you fall asleep, drive into a ditch and write off the car, your insurance will cover the value of your car. 'Fully comp' has nothing to do with personal injuries, and will not pay anything for medical expenses or loss of income.

CramCycle · 23-09-2014 9:02am

Hi Ho wrote: »

Every now and then someone who gets knocked down posts here for advice.

This is a hypothetical thread.

Some of the advice given is factually wrong (and some just bad advice but that's just MHO).

Point them out and discuss them.

Medical advice isn't allowed on Boards as it could damage your health. Some of the legal advice given can seriously damage your pocket - I'm not sure if it should be allowed either. If you are knocked down and injured go straight to a real expert - a solicitor.

Legal advice is also not allowed, hasn't been for awhile.

MOD VOICE: We are a discussion site, if you have an issue with a particular post please report it, if you think that something stated here is misleading or wrong, please quote the post and discuss it. Random statements that are out of kilter with the thread are not very productive or necessary.

Leroy42 · 23-09-2014 9:12am

The OP raises and interesting question, but one could argue that an accident can happen at any time. What if you fall down the satairs at home, trip over the cat etc.

While we all have to be mindful of risks, surely cycling into a lamppost/parked car is near the bottom of the list. Rather than waste on money on an insurance policy that in all likelyhood will have so many caveats and excess built into that that economically is probably isn't worth it (I haven't checked out any insurance so this is just an assumption on my part) why not just take extra care on the commute.

Slow down so that any potential incident you can handle. If the incident is someone else fault then their insurance 'should' cover you.

But life is full of risks. Even staying in bed isn't an option as your get bedsores etc.

Hmmzis · 23-09-2014 10:29am

The severity of an injury from cycling into something is highly dependent on the speed you cycle into that something. The faster you go the higher the risk of more serious damage. From a study about searbelt effectiveness in cars I seem to rember that with speeds under the 30km/h marker it was still possble for the driver to control his body upon impact with a wall.

From my own experience crashes under 30km/h are annoying to painful but without much damage (bruising, minor abrasions, scrapes etc.). When making contact with the road surface at 50+ km/h expect to loose a good bit of skin, some serious bruising and some broken/chipped bones. Careful with ice on roads, plnety of people have broken their bones when the bike just disappears underneath (regardles of speed).

Also what I've found is that extending your arm when crashing into a wall or street furniture isn't a good idea. It's better to brace yourself and 'rugby tackle' the wall with your shoulder and upper arm that's pressing against your ribcage. Shoulder and upper arm will hurt for a couple of days but it beats missing skin on fingertips and a damaged wrist joint.

Given my own experiences and the speeds generaly involved when commuting on a bike you're actually very unlikely to seriously injure yourself without a car getting involved or icy conditions.

Wishbone Ash · 23-09-2014 10:41am

Hmmzis wrote: »

Careful with ice on roads, plnety of people have broken their bones when the bike just disappears underneath (regardles of speed)..

I've come off twice on black ice and came away practically unscathed as I just slid along the ice.

Hmmzis wrote:

Also what I've found is that extending your arm when crashing into a wall or street furniture isn't a good idea. It's better to brace yourself and 'rugby tackle' the wall with your shoulder and upper arm ...

In fairness, impulse/instinct will take over and it's difficult to control that in a split second accident situation.

flatface · 23-09-2014 11:45am

bazermc wrote: »

You need something called Income protection or income continuance

Talk to you broker, certain companies (i presume I cannot name them) specialise in this sort of cover.

There is also tax relief at the higher rate available against the premiums.

Not sure about this last statement, maybe self-employed but PAYE insurance relief I thought was only Tax Relief at Source for medical insurance.

Another alternative to insurance is to set up a highish interest regular savings account and pop in the same amount as you get quoted for income protection.

Dip into it only if you hit a stationary car while cycling - hopefully someday you will have a tidy amount for a fleet of fancy bikes

galwaycyclist · 23-09-2014 11:47am

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

I've come off twice on black ice and came away practically unscathed as I just slid along the ice.

In fairness, impulse/instinct will take over and it's difficult to control that in a split second accident situation.

I came off once on ice and somehow managed to end up doing a pirouette on the road - facing the sky and nicely balanced on my rucksack.

On a more serious note I have a book (somewhere in my collection) on cycling for children "Beaver book of Bikes". Dates from early 1980s or thereabouts. i.e. Pre H****ts.

That book advised its readers to get Judo lessons if they were worried about falling - since Judo involves learning how to fall properly.

Sensible advice.

bazermc · 23-09-2014 11:57am

flatface wrote: »

Not sure about this last statement, maybe self-employed but PAYE insurance relief I thought was only Tax Relief at Source for medical insurance.

Another alternative to insurance is to set up a highish interest regular savings account and pop in the same amount as you get quoted for income protection.

Dip into it only if you hit a stationary car while cycling - hopefully someday you will have a tidy amount for a fleet of fancy bikes

This is different from normal medical insurance VHI, Aviva etc

it is income protection insurance or as Revenue call permanent health insurance, for which tax relief at the higher rate for PAYE or self employed can claim

http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/it/reliefs/permanent-health-insurance.html

seamus · 23-09-2014 12:18pm

RainyDay wrote: »

The 'fully comp' bit of car insurance refers to comprehensive no-fault cover relating to damage to your car, regardless of fault. So if you fall asleep, drive into a ditch and write off the car, your insurance will cover the value of your car. 'Fully comp' has nothing to do with personal injuries, and will not pay anything for medical expenses or loss of income.

Well that's interesting as hell. For some reason I assumed that Fully comp covered everything. Fall asleep at the wheel and hospitalise yourself for six months? Oh no wait, it's not that kind of comprehensive. I wonder how many other people are going around in this blissfully unaware state that "comprehensive" doesn't actually mean "comprehensive"?

Checked my own policy and it initially said, "Personal Injury cover of €6,500". Better than nothing I suppose. Then the fine print: Only if you die, lose your sight or lose a limb within 3 months of the accident. €6,500; that'll pay for my daughter's education alright.

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

I've come off twice on black ice and came away practically unscathed as I just slid along the ice.

In fairness, impulse/instinct will take over and it's difficult to control that in a split second accident situation.

Indeed, physics can also play a part. Arguably a slower spill may hurt more because you'll take a direct impact rather than a sliding impact. Plus you'll have more time to panic and tense up, hurting yourself more.

Both times I've come down in the ice, it's my hip thats been the sore part. If I was in my 60s that would probably leave me out of action for months.

Carawaystick · 23-09-2014 12:33pm

bazermc wrote: »

This is different from normal medical insurance VHI, Aviva etc

it is income protection insurance or as Revenue call permanent health insurance, for which tax relief at the higher rate for PAYE or self employed can claim

http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/it/reliefs/permanent-health-insurance.html

I know we're straying here, but the tax relief on premiums is there cos you pay income tax if they pay out.

My first thought on the thread title was
"Safely out of the way"

Mossess · 29-09-2014 2:06pm

OP here. I have to say that after reading all the comments, totting up the totals involved in additional insurance, income protection and everything else I'm just going to have to take a chance on not getting hit after all. It would work out more expensive then driving. It’s a shame there isn’t an add on you can get for your driving insurance.
Thanks to everyone for the input.

29-09-2014 2:33pm

Mossess wrote: »

OP here. I have to say that after reading all the comments, totting up the totals involved in additional insurance, income protection and everything else I'm just going to have to take a chance on not getting hit after all. It would work out more expensive then driving. It’s a shame there isn’t an add on you can get for your driving insurance.
Thanks to everyone for the input.

Take comfort that the health benefits from cycling substantially outweigh the associated risks.

Where would I stand if I was knocked down.

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