New International Sanshou Association open day

crosstrainer1 · 22-07-2014 9:28am #1

This Sunday the 27th of July the All Styles International Sanshou Association will be holding an open Seminar at Santry Hall unit 6/7 Santry Industrial Estate Dublin 9.
The New Sanshou association is being created by Richie Moore, Keith Fanning and Joseph Ferris as a fresh new approach to sport Sanshou both in the north and south of Ireland.
Our new approach will put Sanshou into any fighting arena plus as instructors and students will be able to grade in this combat art without interference.
Our aim is to promote the sport for MAT/RING/ AND CAGE ARENAS.
over the next 12 months ASISA will be on the fight cards of some of the biggest fight nights in Ireland and showing what and exciting combat sport Sanshou is.
The course is from 11-2pm its only 5 euros to cover lighting cost . Please bring sparring equipment and a light lunch

For contact info Richie Moore on 0876378353
or Joseph Ferris 07703724826 for the north

FO NO CONFUSION THIS IS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ICBA OR ANYONE INVOLVED IN IT.

Its going to be a great day

kungfuscience · 20-08-2014 11:57pm

Hey Crosstrainer, I am curious about this new Sanshou association, I don’t see much on the web about it and you say you are not involved with ICBA but I thought they were the national governing body as appointed by the ewuf – IWUF? What makes you guys an official association with any authority to run events or offer ‘Grades’ in Sanshou??? I’ve never heard of grades in Sanshou before reading this post???

Interested in your response!

-KFS

crosstrainer1 · 21-08-2014 12:31am

hi KFS it looks to me that you didnt read the post properly, but rather go into a big blog we hold training days and fight training days with our fist national competition being held very soon. You are more than welcome to come and see who we are is in our teaching training and our martial arts back ground. If you go on the EWUF web page you will see a section at the top which reads gradings and certifications. check out our facebook page All styles International Sanshou Association. Lots of new and exciting stuff reguarding Sanshou coming soon.

kungfuscience · 21-08-2014 6:31pm

Hi Crosstrainer1,

Thanks for your reply and I had a look at the facebook page and googled you guys when I first read your post. I’ve been practicing Kung Fu for a long time and fought as a junior in Sanda (Qingda) and was thinking of competing again so I had to ask about this new association and find out what it is going to do for the sport in Ireland. I see that there was already a Bronze medallist at this year’s European Sanda Championships so the sport has really taken huge strides if we have fighters competing at that level?

Are you saying your gradings are ewuf gradings?

My understanding is that ewuf duan levels are for their officials, wouldn't you need to be ewuf recognised then? Their site mentions ICBA as their representatives - like who polices the police ?

Who awarded your grade in sanda? What is their background? What is your sanda fight record? I’ve been training for over 10 years and I was practicing Sanda for about 3 too, nobody ever gave me any Sanda grades, in fact none of the fighters had Sanda grades in our club just their traditional Kung Fu sashes.

A belt system is not normal in sanda, fight records and international rankings are, it just sound a bit fishy to me! That’s why a felt to need to ask about you guys?

If I want to learn a combat sport I want to learn off someone with relevant experience, can you make it simple and tell us your sanda record? Or the other members of ASISA for that matter?

-KFS

crosstrainer1 · 25-08-2014 8:45am

Growing bigger by the day ASISA

kungfuscience · 27-08-2014 3:37pm

CROSSTRAINER

YOUR SILENCE SPEAKS VOLUMES??????????

You are advertising a new Sanshou Association on a public forum the least you could do is give us your background by answering the few questions in my last post.

I’ve found the Sanshou grading syllabus and it’s full of Japanese Judo techniques and block breaking????? The 3 guys I found who set up the association are ranked 3rd dan under this new association (I’m assuming you are one of them). Did you guys award yourselves these grades?

It seems to me like you are trying to ‘cash in’ on the growing Chinese combat sports and if there were more Kung Fu or Sanshou guys on here I don’t know why you are not being put to question by them too. The Muay Thai guys certainly didn’t let you away with claiming to be a 3rd dan in Muay Thai??????? Is this history repeating itself just in a different format????

-KFS

Peetrik · 27-08-2014 4:18pm

kungfuscience wrote: »

The Muay Thai guys certainly didn’t let you away with claiming to be a 3rd dan in Muay Thai???????

Oh just saw that thread there, it's not clear from that old thread actually, did you ever have any Muay Thai fights Crosstrainer?

Doug Cartel · 27-08-2014 8:07pm

Crosstrainer1, before you make any more posts promoting your club or association, you should probably try and engage in some discussion. After all, this is a discussion board and not an advertising directory.

I think the primary things of interest are your Muay Thai and San Shou competition record. Perhaps you could tell us some details of your most memorable fights?

crosstrainer1 · 27-08-2014 11:04pm

Traditionally Muay Thai grading did not exist before 1977. Master Sken Master Toddy and Master Woody on arriving in the UK began to teach Muay Thai and saw the need to assess and grade their students on their abilities in the sport.

Following similar rigorous standards of other martial arts, they set up a syllabus using the Arm Band where other styles had used belts. The Prajeat/ Kuang Rang (Arm Band) historically the arm band was presented to warriors on the battle field by their Masters. In more modern times it has been presented to the fighter after being blessed believing it to have special magical powers, thought of as a charm or talisman. It was worn for good luck helping to keep the fighter safe during his battle/fight. The modern day fighter still wears the Arm Band usually presented to him by his Grand Master - Master or teacher

More recently the Muay Thai practitioner can be awarded his or her arm band through an assessment process called Rank. Each rank is awarding a student on his/her ability to show the technique clearly executing balance power speed and accuracy. The student will need to show that they have a good attitude and are humble and loyal towards their art and their Master.

Grand Master Sken - Grading
The rank is determined by colour

White Arm Band /Kuang Rang
Yellow Arm Band/ Kuang Rang
Green Arm Band/ Kuang Rang
Blue Arm Band /Kuang Rang
Blue White Arm Band /Kuang Rang
Brown Arm Band /Kuang Rang
Brown 1 Arm Band /Kuang Rang
Brown 2 Arm Band/ Kuang Rang
Brown 3 Arm Band /Kuang Rang
Black/White Arm Band /Kuang Rang - Adult (18 years plus)
This Armband has been introduced in to the syllabus for the Adult student who does not wish to teach Muay Thai but has already achieved an extremely high standard in the various techniques used in the sport, including Muay Boran Ring Sport, Spectacular Techniques. It is the highest qualifying Grade before the MTQ Instructor Red Band Levels. Black/White Arm Band, qualified students can further their education by continuing on to the Red Band Instructor Levels or by taking certified MSA Courses which have been especially created to enhance their training ability in all the various aspects of the sport.
Red & Black Arm Band - Child (12 years – 17 years) Junior Leadership
Red & Black Armband is a special award for young adults who wish to become mentors for the younger students. They are assed on leadership skills Muay Thai Techniques planning and helping in lessons.
The first grades are traditionally held around every 2 months allowing the student to have time to develop their skills.

MTQ Instructors
Red Adult (18 years)
The Red band is given in recognition of being at a standard of which he/she can become an MTQ (Muay Thai Qualified) Trainee Instructor This level will allow the Trainee Instructor to be able to continue on to MTQ Instructor Level Khan Grade (Dan grade) his/her study will give the Instructor the opportunity to acquire the relevant Muay Thai Qualification to aquire accreditation, insurances for teaching with in his or her own school or at a facility

Grand Master Sken MTQ Instructor / Assessors
The Khan grades are determined by rank and colour.

Red Arm Band Kuang Rang 1st Degree MTQ Trainee Instructor -Level 1

Red White Arm Band Kuang Rang 2nd Degree MTQ Instructor -Level 2

Red Yellow Arm Band Kuang Rang 3rd Degree MTQ Instructor Level 2 /Assessor Level 1.(1)
Red Green Arm Band Kuang Rang 4th Degree MTQ Instructor Level 2 / Assessor Level 1.(2)
Red Blue Arm Band Kuang Rang 5th Degree MTQ Instructor Level 2 / Assessor Level 1.(3)

Red Brown Arm Band Kuang Rang 6th Degree MTQ Instructor Level 2 /Assessor Level 2.(1)
Red Silver Arm Band Kuang Rang 7th Degree MTQ Instructor Level 2 /Assessor Level 2. (2)

Silver Master Arm Band Kuang Rang 8th Degree MTQ Master Level 3 /Assessor Level 3. (1)
Red Gold Master Arm Band Kuang Rang 9th Degree MTQ Master Level 3 /Assessor Level 3. (2)

Gold - Grand Master Arm Band Kuang Rang 10th Degree

Check you facts on thai boxing gradings this from master skens web page

There are plenty more thai boxing association grading out there

A couple of points
1 its clear to everyone that your involved with the icba
2 Everyone knows who are the 3 founding Members of the ASISA what are background/ Qualifications are.
3 It is clear that what we are doing is angering you guys off and we are so delighted and we will keep doing it because the support we are getting
4 The 3 of us where involved with icba over the years in cluding training Fighters (winners) in icba Sanshou competitions referee and oficial training
5 It is also clear that you have no idea how martial arts association are run
But rather sling mud around and we we are far two busy building the biggest and best Sanshou Association Ireland .
We also have a complaint department what you do is you come to any of are gyms a step on the mat.
Weather we have answered you question we really dont care and we will not be replying to this thread again as we only deal with real martial artist on a face to face bases .
The fact is who is KFS its is strange how someone can demand stuff they cant prove themselves theres a private message button tell me who you are stop hiding behind a computer. In the 28 years ive been training in martial arts theres always some muppet who cant stand anyone doing something different it just shows that your martial arts life is doing knothing, because if it was then you would be out there enjoying it and pushing it forward, but as we can all see you are hitting the panic button as for a fight record at 42 im too old to compete but the 3 fighters i brought to 2 icba competitions i brought back 3 golds in the Irish chinese kuoshu associations open we won 5 golds and fighter of the tournament( im also the north west open judo champion and british masters sliver medalist at 95kg
See you remind me of years ago when 2 MMA Clubs opened in my town. both said what do know about mma , ive done this ive done that was there story. Then 6 months later i trained and produced a MMA winner he still is the first fighter who was offered a 3 fight deal with cage contender. and guess what none of those clubs are still going and you are no different than these MMA clubs. People in the business find out very quickly whos real and not real the All styles International Sanshou association will still be here in 10 years time and if you annoyed by this wait for the announcements were going to make in the next 7 days

Doug Cartel · 27-08-2014 11:26pm

So, can you just confirm with me - your personal record is:

0-0-0 Muay Thai
0-0-0 San Da
A gold in the Northwest Judo Open
A silver in the British Masters Judo Open

The achievements of your students are:

3 golds in the ICBA
5 golds and fighter of the tournament in the Irish Chinese Kuoshu Association Open
1 MMA win in some promotion that lead to a Cage Contender deal

Is this correct? I had difficulty picking the details out from your post. Please let me know if you have any clarifications.

crosstrainer1 · 27-08-2014 11:45pm

Doug Cartel wrote: »

So, can you just confirm with me - your personal record is:
0-0-0 Muay Thai

0-0-0 San Da

A gold in the Northwest Judo Open

A silver in the British Masters Judo Open

The achievements of your students are:
3 golds in the Irish chinese kuoshu associations open

5 golds and fighter of the tournament in some other tournament

1 MMA win in some promotion that lead to a Cage Contender deal

Is this correct? I had difficulty picking the details out from your post. Please let me know if you have any clarifications.

3 icba golds
5 Chinese kuoshu golds

Doug Cartel · 28-08-2014 9:49am

OK I've edited my post above to reflect that.

If you've got guys winning competitions, I don't see why it's so difficult for you to just say that.

paul moran · 28-08-2014 10:57am

Hi Joe,

1 its clear to everyone that your involved with the icba

Myself and Niall have been posting here on boards for many years and we made the decision not to engage with you, I can assure you this guy your speaking with is not part of the ICBA! It appears he may have fought as a junior at a few of our events in the past, but that it seems is it.

2 Everyone knows who are the 3 founding Members of the ASISA what are background/ Qualifications are.

Qualifications have no relevance to us, my shaolin kung fu ranks have no direct relevance to my Sanshou sports involvement. My fighters successes and failures are what really matters in the realm of the sport. Afterall I personally have no Sanshou record myself as I did all my fighting as a boxer/kickboxer, unfortunately Sanshou didn't exist as a sport in this country until the ICBA was founded in 2008. But then again Muay Thai and MMA have only really exploded in the last 10 years too.

3 It is clear that what we are doing is angering you guys off and we are so delighted and we will keep doing it because the support we are getting

I wouldn't say we are angry, more bewildered. We see you guys as a non entity really. How you guys think it is better for the sport to work independently of the International Wushu Federation and set up unofficial competitions and gradings and award ranks to yourself and students, train officials etc amazes me.

Richie and Keith know how much work is involved in running the ICBA, you weren't really involved at all too much! Do you think that splitting the resources and running a separate association is good for the sport???

Maybe it's good for your pockets, I don't know? I can't see any other logical reason? Time will tell I suppose. But as Keith and Richie will tell you there is no money in the sport, the ICBA is run and funded directly by its board members, (and competitors) not only do we give our time and expertise for free we have put our own money into all areas of the sport, from sponsoring the national team to travel, to bringing the EWuF officials over for meetings, to hosting websites and adverts, to buying ink and paper for competition documents etc. All this is done to bring the sport to a higher level year on year.

4 The 3 of us where involved with icba over the years in cluding training Fighters (winners) in icba Sanshou competitions referee and oficial training

.

Yes you were all involved, Richie and Keith in a large amount over the past 2 years, you attended one of the early official training courses, well before we moved on to the EWuF Standards, and even now we are still building funds to have our officials qualified to their standards. There's nobody qualified to train officials to this standard in this country yet, but we certainly have the most experienced and knowledgeable people in the country. You also came to a couple of ICBA meeting and events but you never took on any real responsibility!

In terms of producing winners, of course that's the aim of every club involved in the ICBA, but it's all about levels and consistency. I've had a fight team on the mats at every event since the first one in 2009. Last year I had 6 national championship finalists, 5 took the titles, 2 became the first ever Sanshou fighters to represent Ireland at the European championships, and one took the Bronze home for his country at the 1st time of asking.

I want to see all our top Sanshou fighters from all clubs competing at this level every year. I want the Irish Team to go to China and the Chinese team to come here and fight at their level. This is going to happen and we will produce European and World Champions.

5 It is also clear that you have no idea how martial arts association are run

That was directed at Kung Fu Science but I'll respond. Joe you will see over time just how much work is involved, it's not easy and in allot if times thankless. I don't know whether your end game will be worth it to be honest, but then again we don't know your agenda. Ours is a worthy cause and we are happy to do it.

But rather sling mud around and

we we are far two busy building the biggest and best Sanshou Association Ireland

So as it happens, the repeated mantra from Keith and Richie was untrue? I had amicable meetings and many telephone chats with both of them and wished them luck and I was told that this new association was not going to be "a conflict of interests" and "won't be direct competition to the ICBA", that you guys "just want to help promote sanshou in other avenues such as at mma and k1 events and produce semi pro and pro fighters"

Now it seems this isn't the case but as I said, we are the Official EWuF representative body in the Republic of Ireland and we will take the advice of their VP Henk Verschuur and represent and carry ourselves as the governing body for the whole of the Wushu sports. We have this backing, 146 countries with 147 million members, I think we'll be alright:).

We also have a complaint department what you do is you come to any of are gyms a step on the mat.
Weather we have answered you question we really dont care and we will not be replying to this thread again as we only deal with real martial artist on a face to face bases .

That's just plain rude.

The fact is who is KFS its is strange how someone can demand stuff they cant prove themselves theres a private message button tell me who you are stop hiding behind a computer.

He did mention he fought as a junior and was thinking of competing again. He's not setting up a body for the sport he has an interest so really has no questions to answer!

So to finish be sure Joe/Crosstrainer we have no interest in engaging with you and whoever Kung Fu Science is he's asking questions we are hearing from many others?

Peetrik · 28-08-2014 1:43pm

That Thai grading is just Toddy trying to squeeze a few bob out of gullible Americans. You're frankly embarrassing yourself claiming to be any kind of graded authority in Thai boxing when you've never even fought Thai.

The above combined with that you've clearly just made up a whole Sanshou organisation (also without ever having competed) makes you look extremely dodgy. For anyone on the fence I'd steer well clear

Doug Cartel · 28-08-2014 2:51pm

That's Sken's grading system. I used to train in a place that used it when I lived in Scotland, but grading was optional and they were clear that it was secondary to a fight record.

Peetrik · 28-08-2014 3:43pm

Doug Cartel wrote: »

That's Sken's grading system. I used to train in a place that used it when I lived in Scotland, but grading was optional and they were clear that it was secondary to a fight record.

Skens or Toddys, it's the same thing, nonsense dreamed up to try make a few quid off the gullible.

I have nothing against anyone who wants to train without competing/doesn't have time due to other commitments etc, the more people training the better, knock yourself out.

But... claiming you're a Thai fighter let alone some sort of authority on it without ever having fought is dodgy as fcuk, same goes for setting up a sanshou organisation (also without having fought) and then proceeding to award yourself dans in it? Add the evasive response to any questions, it all seems very suspicious.

If I were KFS or the ICBA I'd be emailing IMAC to check if Joe Ferris is garda vetted or not.

paul moran · 28-08-2014 5:02pm

In all fairness the issue of Garda vetting wouldn't be a concern of the ICBA at all in regards to Joe. He's a good coach as far as we've seen, besides he is up north out of the jurisdiction of the gardai.

New International Sanshou Association open day

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