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Most Pressing Things LGBT people want heterosexuals to know

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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,090 ✭✭✭jill_valentine


    J_E wrote: »
    I think you're missing a lot of cultural context and misinterpreting the conversation entirely to be honest, that's what it sounds like to me, there are many colloquialisms attributed to gay culture, it's not the default but it's just a facet of the social identity. There are gay men that are certainly misogynistic, homophobic, racist, and I know the few, but I really don't think it fit that circumstance - it was merely that guy feeling his fantasy and being sassy! A little irritating at most. The whole 'she' and 'her' thing isn't himself referring to women as inferior, it's more the social stigma beyond that sentiment that deemed so, that gay men are effeminate and not 'real men'. It goes back to that self-depreciative humour, sometimes all we can do is laugh about it.

    I really, really don't agree. I think the implications are pretty undeniable, and just because it's an extremely common humourous device among many gay males doesn't mean it's okay.

    Think through that bit about stigma a little more.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,681 ✭✭✭bodice ripper


    notkyle wrote: »
    What?

    Thats just basically sticking earplugs in your ears and repeating your argument.

    Its not addressing any of my points.


    No, I read it. My opinion is so far from yours that I didn't want to absorb the thread with it. I disagree with the entire outlook expressed in the post. But the OP wanted opinions of LGBT people, and that I am. This is my opinion, that is yours. We're both entitled, and neither is a lunatic or a nazi, but we are diametrically opposed on this issue.

    Let us not bore the universe bickering about it, I doubt either of us is wrong as such.


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,549 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    To be honest I'm not sure any of us can prescribe absolutes on paddbs story. It could all have been affectionate or humorous or derogatory or drunken ranting or friendly banter or judgemental. Theres so many different ways of interpreting a conversation like that in my opinion.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 639 ✭✭✭Ash885


    ^ just as there is recieving the comment, such as insulting, complimentary etc. Too many variables and without being there in the moment or context it's pretty hard to sum things up. OP seems upset over it so I'd take it that it wasn't meant in good spirits but rather very direct.


  • Registered Users Posts: 731 ✭✭✭ene


    i think just a general attitude needs to change, when i came out i found that people treated me differently and suddenly seemed awkward around me or tried to include me in the conversation in really annoying ways- like ene my friend is gay is well- like that makes us have something in common!

    i have recently moved to the uk and it wasn't even a thing that i was gay and my new friends have banter about my girlfriend and just treats my relationship like their own.

    sorry if this doenst make sense

    basically just each person is a person, don't treat differently


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,689 ✭✭✭✭padd b1975


    To be honest I'm not sure any of us can prescribe absolutes on paddbs story. It could all have been affectionate or humorous or derogatory or drunken ranting or friendly banter or judgemental. Theres so many different ways of interpreting a conversation like that in my opinion.
    I was hoping posters would pick up on the fact that it was his partner that seemed to be least amused at his use of the terms.


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,549 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    padd b1975 wrote: »
    I was hoping posters would pick up on the fact that it was his partner that seemed to be least amused at his use of the terms.

    But as I said its difficult for us all to understand the context or meaning of that incident. And what does a one off incident really prove anyway?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,820 ✭✭✭floggg


    padd b1975 wrote: »
    I was hoping posters would pick up on the fact that it was his partner that seemed to be least amused at his use of the terms.

    I really am puzzled why somebody who has a tendency to say some not very nice things about gay people, and gives the impression that he doesn't really like them, spends so much time browsing the last threads and generally pondering gay people.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,689 ✭✭✭✭padd b1975


    But as I said its difficult for us all to understand the context or meaning of that incident. And what does a one off incident really prove anyway?

    I thought I explained the context in my original post, it was just an example of a gay person using slurs against his own community in everyday conversation.


  • Registered Users Posts: 957 ✭✭✭NewCorkLad


    padd b1975 wrote: »
    I thought I explained the context in my original post, it was just an example of a gay person using slurs against his own community in everyday conversation.

    You seem to be drawing a lot of assumptions from a briefly overheard conversation at another table in a restaurant a few years ago, that perfectly outlines your argument :rolleyes:


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,920 ✭✭✭Daith


    padd b1975 wrote: »
    I thought I explained the context in my original post, it was just an example of a gay person using slurs against his own community in everyday conversation.

    If a straight guy was giving out about some gob****e he had to work with would you have even given it a moments pause?


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,689 ✭✭✭✭padd b1975


    Daith wrote: »
    If a straight guy was giving out about some gob****e he had to work with would you have even given it a moments pause?

    Probably not to be honest, although if the language he used to describe his work mate was making someone at his table uncomfortable, it could stick in my memory.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,734 ✭✭✭J_E


    floggg wrote: »
    I really am puzzled why somebody who has a tendency to say some not very nice things about gay people, and gives the impression that he doesn't really like them, spends so much time browsing the last threads and generally pondering gay people.

    My thoughts exactly; happy to explore issue but I know that you've said some awful things about me and other gay people before, padd- that tends to 'stick in my memory' too. For someone so concerned about language, yours has not been the most gracious in the past.
    padd b1975 wrote: »
    It's what happens when the harsh reality of married life sets in that concerns me.
    A lot of gay men may find it difficult to switch off from their previous lifestyle.


    I feel they could marry because it's fashionable or trendy or because they want an attention-seeking party. Marriage and the commitment it brings is something that is totally alien to the gay community.
    padd b1975 wrote: »
    People* who wear a scarf with a t-shirt and jeans combo.
    * I find these people are usually gay men.
    padd b1975 wrote: »
    So lets lock 2 gay men in one room, 2 lesbians in another, and see who makes a baby first.

    Enjoy the wait. .
    padd b1975 wrote: »
    Gay men by their very nature will undermine marriage, most of them have no concept of monogamy.


    Cut the pretense, padd. I know what you think of me and others. It's more insulting when you pretend to show concern, because we all know what you are doing.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,820 ✭✭✭floggg


    J_E wrote: »
    My thoughts exactly; happy to explore issue but I know that you've said some awful things about me and other gay people before, padd- that tends to 'stick in my memory' too. For someone so concerned about language, yours has not been the most gracious in the past.










    Cut the pretense, padd. I know what you think of me and others. It's more insulting when you pretend to show concern, because we all know what you are doing.

    Oh, undoubtedly our padd tends towards the homophobic end of the scale. I don't think he makes an effort to hide that.

    Still, I would imagine it is possible to be racist without spending your day thinking about black people and lurking around places they comgregate (whether online or in real life).

    So why does padd spend so much time obsessing about gay people (mention the words gay or light on boards and he's theee) or lurking around this forum?

    Don't get me wrong, u know there are other noted 'phobes on boards, but none seem to lurk here as much (or bother to try and dress their critiques and diatribe up as any sort of constructive criticism or inpit).

    I'm not saying it's a case of Haggard's law, though I'm not saying it isn't either. If he isn't lovijg about denial about his own sexual orientation though, then the obsession seems unhealthy.


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,549 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Folks I've given yellow card warnings on posts that mention padds posting history. The posts are attacking the poster and not the post. If you doubt anothers posters motives then using the report post button might be appropriate. An in depth discussion of a posters posting history isnt really on topic either.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 56 ✭✭Saster123


    Well I think we scared him away anyway. Though mod, I think you might be punishing the wrong people! But i'm not going to chase you up on it because I'm sure there's some weird rule about 'if you question a mod you get banned for a day' or something and that'd just be too inconvenient.

    Anyway Homophobes are the reason i'm here lol so to steer this thread back on target anymore things for me to write about? Lizzy the Lezzy had a piece about a girl who got beaten for coming out to her parents and I was thinking about writing about coming out etc.


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,549 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Discussion on thread of moderation is against the forum charter. Any issues pm me.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 639 ✭✭✭Ash885


    Not really going to indulge the drama in this thread; it only creates more.

    One thing I'd like "heterosexuals" to know is;

    a) just because you know I'm gay, does not give you permission to tell everyone else about it, assume I'm fabulous (even though I kind of am), and that you can have 'those' conversations about things in which you knew beforehand I had no interest in.

    and to fellow homosexuals one thing I'd like them to know is that "coming out" is not as easy as 'just tell someone close to you' for some us. And just because you've managed it so far doesn't give you the right to play a superior "good, open gay" card on other people. It can be very dismissive sometimes hearing people talking about this process and not realising sometimes it can have life changing aspects for some people for the worse. Thankfully not talking about my own experiences but I'm still aware and compassionate that things don't always go to plan for some people and wouldn't hold it against them if they're still working through stuff.


  • Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Today I overheard that, for the past 2 years in my school, first years have been getting anti-homophobic bullying classes and talks, as was directed by the Department.

    It made me feel delighted, but also incredibly sad and angry that the school is only doing it now because they were told to, thanks to Ruairi Quinn making it part of his agenda.

    I feel incredibly bitter as I look back as a (closeted) 6th year now on my 5 years here, and at how the use of 'that's so gay' and '******' as insults was effectively endorsed by the teachers' utter silence. Gay people simply were never discussed. It was as if they didn't exist. Silence. Hearing teachers use 'that's so gay' on two occasions. It can't have been good for my mental health.

    What makes me cry more bitter tears is the fact that I've had to shape my entire identity based on a lie, because I had to be always on my guard. My voice. My clothes. My music. Lying by omission. I know that I would lose my friends if I came out now. And I can hardly blame them when someone you know has been lying to you for so many years.

    When I was in first year there was a 6th year who was out. We first years found out he had come out when he was in first year. It was generally agreed that this was a foolish decision, as if he should have kept it to his damn self.

    Ski trip, 4th year. A lad in my year had recently come out. Of course no one wanted to share a hotel room with him. The person who was randomly assigned to share with him was slagged relentlessly prior to the trip that he was going to be raped.

    So yeah, that's what I want straight people to know about our experiences of school.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 424 ✭✭Chunners


    RiseToMe wrote: »
    Trans perspective :

    It's not ok to ask the following of somebody who confided in you that they are trans*:

    What's was your birth name?
    I changed it for a reason

    Do you have any pictures of what you used to look like?
    I'm not a circus act or freak show for you to compare and contrast

    Have you had "the surgery"?
    First of all, which surgery? Second of all not your business

    Also, very personally, telling me I was lucky my wife is bisexual, is frankly insulting of both us and our relationship.

    Totally agree, also when you find out don't automatically pull our hair or grab our tits and ask "Are they real?", grabbing our tits is an invasion of our personal space that you wouldn't do to any other female you just met so it's safe to assume that it isn't acceptable to do it to me either and as for the hair thing if it was a wig I'd be pretty much screwed since you just yanked it hard enough to pull it off but since it isn't a wig you just pulled my bloody hair you dick!. Just because you are curious doesn't give you the right to paw at me.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 203 ✭✭Uncle Ruckus


    I would say the main thing for me is that my gender idenity and sexual orientation are not the sole thngs which define me. I'm an individual first and trans/bi second.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,080 ✭✭✭McChubbin


    As a bisexual woman, I feel the need to scream at the top of my lungs:
    I DO NOT WANT TO **** EVERYONE! :mad:
    Just because I am sexually attracted to both genders does not mean I am in any way promiscuous or "easy".
    No, I am NOT open to a threesome and no, I'm not confused.
    I've known I was this way since I was twelve. It is not a phase I'm going through. After 14 years of trying to pretend I'm straight, I've had enough of lying to myself but due to the rampant unfair and wholly damaging stereotypes perpetuated by society, I feel I have to live life with one foot in the closet just to have an easy life.
    I make no secret of being bi- my Facebook page shows I'm interested in both men and women, for example- but as of yet, I've never actually come right out and stated it explicitly as I fear being ridiculed and forced to "pick a side" and "stop being greedy".
    It's an open secret in my family and one I'm tired of sweeping under the carpet.
    I really wish bisexuals had more positive portrayals in the media and that the orientation is not used as an excuse to paint someone as slutty, confused or greedy just because they find qualities of both sexes equally attractive.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭jobbridge4life


    Simply that your knowing my homosexuality does not equate to your knowing the totality of my person. There is as much diversity within the homosexual community as there is without. To be fair there are plenty of us homosexers who need to remind themselves of this too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24 babysock88


    I would like if my straight friends took a bit more interest in LGBT issues and also we're more interested in my romantic life as I find they don't know how to deal with it I suppose and are evasive of asking questions about my dates with women but they are coming around to the idea gradually which is positive!


  • Registered Users Posts: 639 ✭✭✭Ash885


    babysock88 wrote: »
    I would like if my straight friends took a bit more interest in LGBT issues and also we're more interested in my romantic life as I find they don't know how to deal with it I suppose and are evasive of asking questions about my dates with women but they are coming around to the idea gradually which is positive!


    Sometimes I'm the opposite. Because I'm gay sometimes it's the hot topic who I'm seeing (if anyone), what a date was like as if it were some sort of hot gossip. I guess it can work both ways as I don't really like broadcasting that kind of stuff to the nation, and I know it's only amplified due to the fact I'm gay.

    We're all so hard to please :pac:


  • Registered Users Posts: 24 babysock88


    Ash,

    Yea I guess that would be equally annoying. You're romantic encounters are not or shouldn't be used for entertainment or idle gossip for people I agree. I find that some of my friends think I'm going through a phase and therefore feel as though acknowledging my sexuality by asking questions about dates and so forth would actually be giving the impression they are taking it seriously.

    I think if heterosexuality wasn't presumed always as a default, us queer folks wouldn't have these problems but alas!


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,921 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    McChubbin wrote: »
    As a bisexual woman, I feel the need to scream at the top of my lungs:
    I DO NOT WANT TO **** EVERYONE! :mad:
    Just because I am sexually attracted to both genders does not mean I am in any way promiscuous or "easy".
    No, I am NOT open to a threesome and no, I'm not confused.
    I've known I was this way since I was twelve. It is not a phase I'm going through. After 14 years of trying to pretend I'm straight, I've had enough of lying to myself but due to the rampant unfair and wholly damaging stereotypes perpetuated by society, I feel I have to live life with one foot in the closet just to have an easy life.
    I make no secret of being bi- my Facebook page shows I'm interested in both men and women, for example- but as of yet, I've never actually come right out and stated it explicitly as I fear being ridiculed and forced to "pick a side" and "stop being greedy".
    It's an open secret in my family and one I'm tired of sweeping under the carpet.
    I really wish bisexuals had more positive portrayals in the media and that the orientation is not used as an excuse to paint someone as slutty, confused or greedy just because they find qualities of both sexes equally attractive.

    There's not much more to add to this other than " YES"


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