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"Leap" into the unknown: The feedback thread

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Comments

  • #1502
    markpb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,238 ✭✭✭markpb


    stop wrote: »
    Could be sure I saw some reference to a cap and a large number like €999x.xx on the Dublin Bus Leap Card machine this morning.. anyone else seen this?

    They're testing capping on Summerhill buses at the minute.


  • #1503
    etchyed
    Registered Users Posts: 674 ✭✭✭etchyed


    The Black Oil wrote: »
    Thanks.
    That was a mistake on my part. Misread the 'Leap Card Fares' section on www.leapcard.ie I spoke to a Dublin Bus customer service rep who reckoned the 30 Day Adult Rambler ticket €125 might be the best option for me...which matches what etchyed said earlier. And I recheck using the correct Leap figures via the care calculator. If I went that direction it would be 154.80 based on 3 days per week (Mon-Wed, assuming 4 weeks a month, so the €125 definitely sounds better.
    Sorry to keep banging on about this, but you're still clearly not getting this non-consecutive thing. If you only work 3 days a week, a 30-day Adult Rambler will last you 10 weeks. It's valid for 30 individual, not necessarily consecutive, days of bus travel, not a calendar month.

    So a more accurate comparison (based on paying 2 Xpresso fares and 2 over 13 stages fares per day) would be:
    30 Day Adult Rambler €125
    Leap pay as you go €387

    When I said you were paying nearly twice what you should for bus travel, I hadn't considered that you were paying Xpresso fares. In truth, by using Leap, you'd be paying more than three times what you should for bus travel.

    With the greatest of respect, how long had you been paying cash fares on all these buses? Did it never occur to you that prepaid tickets might be cheaper? I sometimes think AlekSmart exaggerates the tendency of Dublin Bus customers to throw away money and avoid prepaid tickets at all costs, but you provide evidence to the contrary. Even paying a single Xpresso cash/Leap fare on a regular basis makes no sense, when you can pay €2.50 for the same journey with a Travel 90.


  • #1504
    The Black Oil
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 18,196 CMod ✭✭✭✭The Black Oil


    Yeah, I get that alright - it sounded OK in my head last night, as I figured it would last well into the summer (not confined to a month as you understandably point out). I just didn't post very well about it. :) I wasn't paying cash fares, btw. I have free travel (I used prepaid tickets in my early 20s), but that's finishing shortly for me hence the research that admittedly I haven't done very well. I had been reading this thread a while back and figured it would be a good place to learn more.

    Moderator: Television, Psychology and Dublin County North.

    CMod: Entertainment



  • #1505
    etchyed
    Registered Users Posts: 674 ✭✭✭etchyed


    The Black Oil wrote: »
    Yeah, I get that alright - it sounded OK in my head last night, as I figured it would last well into the summer (not confined to a month as you understandably point out). I just didn't post very well about it. :) I wasn't paying cash fares, btw. I have free travel (I used prepaid tickets in my early 20s), but that's finishing shortly for me hence the research that admittedly I haven't done very well. I had been reading this thread a while back and figured it would be a good place to learn more.
    Ah OK, apologies for the overreaction. It comes from actually knowing people in real life who refuse to save themselves a few quid by buying a prepaid ticket.


  • #1506
    trellheim
    Registered Users Posts: 5,854 ✭✭✭trellheim


    Ah OK, apologies for the overreaction. It comes from actually knowing people in real life who refuse to save themselves a few quid by buying a prepaid ticket.

    I had no idea that DB were still doing prepaid tickets, outside taxsaver. It was my understanding they all ceased with the introduction of LEAP ( that is what I get for conflating with Oyster )


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  • #1507
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,540 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    trellheim wrote: »
    I had no idea that DB were still doing prepaid tickets, outside taxsaver. It was my understanding they all ceased with the introduction of LEAP ( that is what I get for conflating with Oyster )

    The full range of 1, 3, 5, and monthly rambler tickets and multi-mode tickets remain available.

    Incidentally in London the one day travelcards remain available.


  • #1508
    Stevek101
    Registered Users Posts: 1,281 ✭✭✭Stevek101


    The Iarnród Éireann Leap cap is to be introduced by the end of the month.

    Daily fare cap of €9.20 a 9% saving over cash.
    Weekly fare cap €35.50 a 4% saving.

    Dublin Bus are set to follow in September according to the Indo. Hopefully we will see product tickets by then as well!

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/dart-and-commuter-charges-to-be-capped-for-leap-users-29274203.html

    http://nationaltransport.ie.cdn.ie/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Determination-order-for-the-introduction-of-Irish-Rails-Leap-card-daily-and-weekly-capping-rates-May-2013.pdf


  • #1509
    AngryLips
    Registered Users Posts: 2,676 ✭✭✭AngryLips


    Will they fix the issue with commuters timing out on their leap cards if making long journeys on the network as part of this capping?

    Also, why is the daily cap on IE over 40% higher than on Luas? How many journeys would you have to make to make a saving?


  • #1510
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    AngryLips wrote: »
    Will they fix the issue with commuters timing out on their leap cards if making long journeys on the network as part of this capping?

    Also, why is the daily cap on IE over 40% higher than on Luas? How many journeys would you have to make to make a saving?

    In order for them to "Fix" the issue,you will firstly need to assure yourself that they recognize the issue at all.

    I would not be quite so certain that is the case....:(


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • #1511
    goingnowhere
    Registered Users Posts: 4,131 ✭✭✭goingnowhere


    It was fixed ages back


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  • #1512
    AngryLips
    Registered Users Posts: 2,676 ✭✭✭AngryLips


    goingnowhere wrote: »
    It was fixed ages back

    what was the solution? Did they extend the time-out period for IE?


  • #1513
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    AngryLips wrote: »
    what was the solution? Did they extend the time-out period for IE?

    Hopefully they did,and publicised it too ?


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • #1514
    bg07
    Registered Users Posts: 247 ✭✭bg07


    Stevek101 wrote: »
    The Iarnród Éireann Leap cap is to be introduced by the end of the month.

    Daily fare cap of €9.20 a 9% saving over cash.
    Weekly fare cap €35.50 a 4% saving.

    Dublin Bus are set to follow in September according to the Indo. Hopefully we will see product tickets by then as well!

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/dart-and-commuter-charges-to-be-capped-for-leap-users-29274203.html

    http://nationaltransport.ie.cdn.ie/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Determination-order-for-the-introduction-of-Irish-Rails-Leap-card-daily-and-weekly-capping-rates-May-2013.pdf

    So this daily cap doesn't really provide any saving for normal customer already using a leap card to make a return journey even at the maximum fare distance of €4.35? Only significant saving is for the odd occasion when someone make get the train more than twice in the day.

    The weekly cap isn't much use either use either unless your travelling from one of the stations on the extremes on the network e.g. Maynooth or you use the train 7 days a week.

    On the positive side at least it is progress which has been painfully slow on this project.


  • #1515
    markpb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,238 ✭✭✭markpb


    bg07 wrote: »
    So this daily cap doesn't really provide any saving for normal customer already using a leap card to make a return journey even at the maximum fare distance of €4.35? Only significant saving is for the odd occasion when someone make get the train more than twice in the day.

    The weekly cap isn't much use either use either unless your travelling from one of the stations on the extremes on the network e.g. Maynooth or you use the train 7 days a week.

    On the positive side at least it is progress which has been painfully slow on this project.

    The caps aren't meant to solve either of those problems. It's designed for people who would (or should) buy daily or weekly tickets. Now they don't need to and will automatically gain the benefit. It also means they don't have to pay the cost of a weekly ticket upfront.


  • #1516
    bg07
    Registered Users Posts: 247 ✭✭bg07


    markpb wrote: »
    The caps aren't meant to solve either of those problems. It's designed for people who would (or should) buy daily or weekly tickets. Now they don't need to and will automatically gain the benefit. It also means they don't have to pay the cost of a weekly ticket upfront.

    But my point was that a commute from places such as Dun Laoighaire or Leixlip currently cost 10 x €2.30 with a leapcard for 5 return trips. This is still well below the cap of €35.50 meaning that the cap would be of no benefit. Even 7 returns trips in a week is less than the cap.

    Perhaps there will be a zonal cap system but the article doesn't mention it.


  • #1517
    Seaswimmer
    Registered Users Posts: 1,985 ✭✭✭Seaswimmer


    markpb wrote: »
    The caps aren't meant to solve either of those problems. It's designed for people who would (or should) buy daily or weekly tickets. Now they don't need to and will automatically gain the benefit. It also means they don't have to pay the cost of a weekly ticket upfront.

    I think where the cap would be useful is when people are making regular bus trips but the trips thenselves may vary.

    Example.

    2 of my kids have Leap Cards but also have 5 day student ramblers.

    So I tell them if they are going into and out of college to use the student Rambler @18.60 for 5 days. Normal fare is 2.45 X 2 on Leap. However sometimes they go into college and decide at the last minute not to come back then they have spent 3.70 odd on a single trip.

    Alternatively I tell them to use the Leap card if they are doing a single trip but they may then decide to come home and use the Leap card for that as well. This costs more than the Rambler at 2 X 2.45.

    Confusing???


  • #1518
    bg07
    Registered Users Posts: 247 ✭✭bg07


    Seaswimmer wrote: »
    I think where the cap would be useful is when people are making regular bus trips but the trips thenselves may vary.

    Example.

    2 of my kids have Leap Cards but also have 5 day student ramblers.

    So I tell them if they are going into and out of college to use the student Rambler @18.60 for 5 days. Normal fare is 2.45 X 2 on Leap. However sometimes they go into college and decide at the last minute not to come back then they have spent 3.70 odd on a single trip.

    Alternatively I tell them to use the Leap card if they are doing a single trip but they may then decide to come home and use the Leap card for that as well. This costs more than the Rambler at 2 X 2.45.

    Confusing???

    The cap only applies to Irish Rail services. There is already a cap in place on Luas services but that cap also only applies to trips on Luas. A cap for Dublin Bus services will apparently be introduced in September. The cap amount is yet to be announced. Ideally the cap will eventually apply across all services but when if ever that happens is unknown.


  • #1519
    Fred Swanson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


  • #1520
    AngryLips
    Registered Users Posts: 2,676 ✭✭✭AngryLips


    I think that capping isn't going to be of much use until there is cross-modal capping since neither Luas or IE have an extensive enough network to make capping work independently


  • #1521
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    Fred Swanson wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Ramblers are smartcard tickets. I'm not sure what ones are still mag stripe but there must still be some new ones going around.


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  • #1522
    coylemj
    Registered Users Posts: 25,308 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    Karsini wrote: »
    Ramblers are smartcard tickets. I'm not sure what ones are still mag stripe but there must still be some new ones going around.

    When I'm on a bus I still see people feeding tickets into the older machines, the ones that swallow up the ticket and spit them back out again.


  • #1523
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    coylemj wrote: »
    When I'm on a bus I still see people feeding tickets into the older machines, the ones that swallow up the ticket and spit them back out again.

    Yeah, so they obviously still exist in some form. I just don't know what they are.


  • #1524
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,582 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Bus and Luas tickets from Luas ticket machines + Travel 90 single journey tickets from the airport are two.

    I'd guess there may be some rail issued tickets too.


  • #1525
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    Monthly taxsaver tickets for Dublin Bus are mag stripe too.


  • #1526
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,582 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    Monthly taxsaver tickets for Dublin Bus are mag stripe too.

    Are they - that is weird since the monthly Bus and Luas appear to be smartcard, if anything, I'd have expected it to be the other way around.


  • #1527
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    devnull wrote: »
    Are they - that is weird since the monthly Bus and Luas appear to be smartcard, if anything, I'd have expected it to be the other way around.

    Yeah, my girlfriend has one. Not too sure about the annual one, think that might be a smart card.


  • #1528
    Stevek101
    Registered Users Posts: 1,281 ✭✭✭Stevek101


    Bus Eireann customers on the 103 (Dublin – Duleek) and 105 (Dublin – Ratoath) services can today (May 28, 2013) begin to enjoy the advantages of Leap Card travel – paying 10% less per trip with Leap than if they paid cash for an adult standard single fare. They can then go on to use their Leap Cards for hassle-free transfers to onward public transport services to complete their journey. These are the first Bus Éireann routes to accept Leap Cards.
    The National Transport Authority also announced today that it will gradually introduce the Leap Card across all Bus Éireann services in the Eastern part of the country, as part of a new Zonal fare system
    As well as paying for single tickets with Leap, customers will be able to avail of rolling tickets on Leap Card, where unlimited travel for 1 or 7 days is available on Bus Éireann services from the time of activation. Routes 103 and 105 are the first routes to have such zonal fares available. They are within travel zones 1 and 2, which will stretch as far as 40km from the city.
    When zonal fares have been introduced on all routes in these two zones , the next set of zones will be launched which will stretch as far as 120km from the city. A customer information programme will support the gradual roll-out of zonal fares.

    http://nationaltransport.ie.cdn.ie/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/National-Transport-Authoity-Bus-Eireann-Leap-Card-Fares-Determination-Report-May-2013.pdf

    Just annouced the introduction of BÉ on leap.

    Also a new Zonal Fare structure is to be implmented.

    bm1JGVK.gif


  • #1529
    Fred Swanson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


  • #1530
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    looking at the table on page 3 of that NTA pdf the 7 day rolling tickets are going to be more expensive than buying a normal ten journey ticket and will be of little use to most people.
    http://nationaltransport.ie.cdn.ie/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/National-Transport-Authoity-Bus-Eireann-Leap-Card-Fares-Determination-Report-May-2013.pdf
    255820.png


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  • #1531
    Stevek101
    Registered Users Posts: 1,281 ✭✭✭Stevek101


    I think this rolling day lark is to allow people to travel within a zone without having to pay more? They reason it later on in the dertermination. I reckon it'll be cheaper regardless after the next fare increase late 13 or next year.


This discussion has been closed.
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