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Why do people use "very" in front of eyes?

  • 15-09-2008 10:13am
    #1
    smashey
    Registered Users Posts: 21,676 ✭✭✭✭


    As in "right before my very eyes".

    Wouldn't "right before my eyes" suffice? :confused:

    Holy bringing quiet fora back to life Batman.


Comments

  • #2
    KTRIC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭KTRIC


    I would say its an "Irishism" , much like :

    "I do be really tired after a drinking at the weekend"


  • #3
    Hagar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,793 ✭✭✭✭Hagar


    Not an Irishism, it comes from the French "vrai" meaning true or actual afaik. Just use to add emphasis or veracity to a statement.



    "Do be" is a translation from Irish of the Gnáth Láithireach, the continuous present, a tense missing in English. It implies carrying out an action on a regular or continuous basis.

    Such as "I am going to school" in English it's ambiguous, am I on my way to school now or do I attend a school? No such ambiguity exits in Irish.
    Tá má ag dul ar scoil = I'm going to school, immediate motion.
    Bím ag dul ar scoil = I attend school regularly.


  • #4
    smashey
    Registered Users Posts: 21,676 ✭✭✭✭smashey


    Thanks Hagar.


  • #5
    UpsidedownA
    Registered Users Posts: 12 ✭UpsidedownA


    Hagar wrote: »
    Not an Irishism, it comes from the French "vrai" meaning true or actual afaik. Just use to add emphasis or veracity to a statement.



    "Do be" is a translation from Irish of the Gnáth Láithireach, the continuous present, a tense missing in English. It implies carrying out an action on a regular or continuous basis.

    Such as "I am going to school" in English it's ambiguous, am I on my way to school now or do I attend a school? No such ambiguity exits in Irish.
    Tá má ag dul ar scoil = I'm going to school, immediate motion.
    Bím ag dul ar scoil = I attend school regularly.


    Out of interest, why do you discount 'I go to school' as English for attending school on a regular basis? It looks like we have two sentences in English just like Irish has.


  • #6
    Enkidu
    Registered Users Posts: 1,005 ✭✭✭Enkidu


    UpsidedownA wrote: »
    Out of interest, why do you discount 'I go to school' as English for attending school on a regular basis? It looks like we have two sentences in English just like Irish has.
    Bím ag dul ar scoil, translates as "I do be going to school" which has no equivalent in Standard English.

    I good example is:
    Bainim an coirce = I cut/reap the oats (regularly).
    Táim ag baineadh an choirce = I am cutting the oats.
    Bím ag baineadh an choirce = I do be cutting the oats.


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  • #7
    UpsidedownA
    Registered Users Posts: 12 ✭UpsidedownA


    So it looks like Gaelic has three sentences meaning three subtly different things, corresponding roughly to I do something regularly or habitually, I am doing something now and a third sense, I do be doing something. I have only recently moved to Ireland, so I confess I don't know what the I do be doing something idiom means at all. Does it have a genuine use in Hiberno-English distinct from the other two forms? How would saying I do be cutting the oats or I do be going to school differ from saying I cut the oats or I go to school, for example? I find myself wanting to assimilate the do be phrase either to one or to the other of the existing English phrases. It's like I'm blind to the existence of a third possibility.


  • #8
    Enkidu
    Registered Users Posts: 1,005 ✭✭✭Enkidu


    In this context it would be a habitual continuous.

    For example:
    I do be cutting the oats when he visits in the morning.

    So it allows you to use the continuous in a repeated habitual sense.

    Example:
    I sit in the office.
    I am sitting in the office.
    I do be sitting in the office.

    The first says you sit in the office, regularly.
    The second you are seated in the office right now.
    The third says that it is a repeated event that you are seated in the office right now. Usually it is followed by another clause such as:

    I do be sitting in the office when the mail is delivered in the morning.

    So there are repeated moments where you are sitting in the office and the mail arrives during those moments. Standard English might convey this via:

    When the mail is delivered in the morning, I am always sitting in the office.


  • #9
    UpsidedownA
    Registered Users Posts: 12 ✭UpsidedownA


    That's fascinating. Thanks for clarifying.


  • #10
    slowburner
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,218 Mod ✭✭✭✭slowburner


    Wouldn't, 'I tend to be doing something' equate to, 'I do be doing something' ?


  • #11
    _blank_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 41,926 ✭✭✭✭_blank_


    slowburner wrote: »
    Wouldn't, 'I tend to be doing something' equate to, 'I do be doing something' ?

    Kind of, yeah.

    "What are you normally up to when the post arrives"

    "Ah, I do be at my desk normally, or sometimes I do be out having a smoke".

    UpsidedownA, you said "It's like I'm blind to the existence of a third possibility.", which is a very good way of putting it, because essentially you are blind to it, you've not grown up with the idiom, so it makes no sense to you.

    I bet you've never heard a cupboard being referred to as a "press" before you came here either.

    It's akin to people learning a language later in life, they'll always have an accent because there are not able to make the sounds particular to that language (for example the german letter O with the dots above it has a weird sound to our ears, and unless we learned to make that sound as children, we never really master it)


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  • #12
    Enkidu
    Registered Users Posts: 1,005 ✭✭✭Enkidu


    Des wrote: »
    It's akin to people learning a language later in life, they'll always have an accent because there are not able to make the sounds particular to that language (for example the german letter O with the dots above it has a weird sound to our ears, and unless we learned to make that sound as children, we never really master it)
    That's not really true. Adult learners can master these things and if you actually study it they do so faster than children. However children under five can master them without conscious effort.


  • #13
    UpsidedownA
    Registered Users Posts: 12 ✭UpsidedownA


    Enkidu wrote: »
    That's not really true. Adult learners can master these things and if you actually study it they do so faster than children. However children under five can master them without conscious effort.

    I think the reason people hardly ever attain perfect fluency in a second language they learn as adults is that they've already got a language that works perfectly well for them so they don't commit themselves to the second language. They can't get motivated like they would need to be to learn the second one completely.


  • #14
    Enkidu
    Registered Users Posts: 1,005 ✭✭✭Enkidu


    UpsidedownA wrote: »
    I think the reason people hardly ever attain perfect fluency in a second language they learn as adults is that they've already got a language that works perfectly well for them so they don't commit themselves to the second language. They can't get motivated like they would need to be to learn the second one completely.
    Exactly, you never have the pressing need you did as a child. In fact if you look at situations where it was necessary to have total mastery (military situations) the individuals achieve native level fluency. Highly motivated learners can achieve this as well, I've met several people who I could have sworn were native speakers.


  • #15
    slowburner
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,218 Mod ✭✭✭✭slowburner


    Here's a post with a nice example of the way the continuous present does be used.
    Does it be the conditional, continuous present? And, do it be a uniquely Irish idiom?
    :p
    Originally Posted by viewpost.gif
    don't you be editing my post leaving out the white parts!
    But they're the parts that put things into context! Can't be having things in context!


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