[filmbuffboy]

Originally Posted by eaglach

I have for a long time been browsing websites like gaydar and manhunt, looking for guys for possibly a relationship. Friendship at the least. But I just can't find any guys that interest me.

I get the feeling I'm on my own in this whole gay community. I feel like I don't fit in. I am a "straight-acting" guy and really only interested in other non-camp guys. Thats not too strange is it?

Then I look to see if I have anything in common. Problem is that I never do. Ever. I'm into rock and metal music. No gay guys I talk to are ever into this kind of music. I like video games. Same story. Films and TV? I could go on like this with lots of things.

Am I being too picky? I am new to this whole gay thing, and relationships, but isn't having things in common pretty important?

It's bad enough being limited to the small number of gay/bi guys in this world to choose from, but then trying to find one that shares my interests? Impossible.

It seems like a lost cause and I'm forever destined to be alone.

why do you need to find a guy with the same interests?

both my serious past boyfriends couldnt have been more different from me if they had tried.

thats part of what makes relationships interesting.

rather than narrowing your criteria on who to be interested in based on interests and hobbies, widen the field a bit and be willing to give a person a chance....

i honestly think so many gay men out there are single cause they are too picky.

[1ZRed]

Well you are young and have little to worry about. It is different coming out at my age where I have a career and its more difficult to make friends. I could bump into a friend or co-worker in one of those clubs, I know some have been before. It may be a non-issue with most of them, but its not something I want to risk.

I have to go through a lot, pretty much by myself because of other things going on in my life right now, but it's only me that can make these decisions for myself. And that's not exactly little to worry about.

So what do you want to do? Meet guys off of sites and stay incognito? How are you supposed to even find a guy to settle down with if you really do not want to come out.
Look man, the longer you leave it the harder it's going to be and the more unhappy you will be in denying all of this. Wouldn't it be so much easier if you came out and was able to be open and relaxed about this instead of relying on blank profiles on websites?
I understand the stakes are high for you but honestly don't live up to your user name and remain fearfull. That's not a way to live by and it won't make you any happier but just waste your time.

Well it's easy when you're confident. But I'm not confident. I still can't imagine going up to a random guy who is out with his mates and trying to chat him up, even if I knew he was gay.

Who's to say a guy won't come up to you if you were just drinking at the bar? If you hit into a guy and got talking you never know where things could go. He could be straight but you'd get that vibe off of him eventually anyway and no harm done. There are guys that are out there without a lot of confidence just like you so I wouldn't worry. And besides, if you do come out, a good chunk of confidence comes with it and it only keeps growing the more open and comfortable you get with yourself. You'll never become confident by using these sites though.

Look, you are just a kid. You haven't even begun to experience the real world. It's not all sunshine and rainbows. Actions have consequences and not all are positive.

So that's how you're going to dismiss all my points? Just because of my age? Oh man don't you think I haven't realised that the world is definitely not sunshine and rainbows. You think I haven't found myself in very dark places or thought it would be best to stay in the closet or ignore my problems because of the potential consequences to myself and others?
No, I chose to confront them for better or worse because it's the right thing to do by me! Why would I let myself wallow in a sad and miserable life and not do anything to fix it because I was being dictated by fear of rejection?

If you want to keep on the way you're going then why did you ever ask for advice? I think you were expecting for somebody to agree with what you were doing to justify it and be completely reassuring and supportive. You'll have the latter but I never got the full package or had anything completely smooth and easy so whenever I see this for a guy you're age I tell them to cop onto themselves for their own good.

I think that's the worst thing that an 18 year old can see what you're doing wrong in terms of ignoring all of this out of pure fear. Your life isn't all that special or different to a lot of gay guys and the stakes aren't higher and the consequences any greater than everyone else. I just read about a guy who was in his 30's here who had a child and yet still confronted his sexuality and was open with himself and is now happy and has a boyfriend who is committed to him.
He had it very tough and I have a huge amount of respect for someone who could do that. It isn't easy at all. So I think you should look at how other people have it too.

Now since you were so quick to make assumptions about me based on my age alone and ignore everything else, then I'll do just that with you.
To me, all you're doing is making things appear as though it's all so tough for you and you're the only one struggling away.
You're not.
So if you want to be that guy that is in the closet all his life, go right ahead. That's the lonely road full of a lot of regret, disappointment and a heap of 'what ifs'. I know this is a very hard thing to do but if you want to find that perfect guy that lives up to all your expectations, he won't be found if you're stuck in the closet and totally disillusioned to what it is to be gay and everything that comes with it if you so readily critisised something you never experienced. (calling back on the gay bar comment)

To me it's you who's being immature about this whole situation by letting your fear take over and feeling like you should give up because it's all so hopeless. You're a man, no excuses, no whining. Some men go through this much later in life when the consequences are much more severe so I have little sympathy for you if you think that way. If you keep going the way you are with the brakes on with all of this, you'll be joining their ranks in no time.
Time will only pass you by and what will you have achieved for yourself?
I think that's the worst outcome and the biggest consequence by not doing anything.

I'll be perfectly honest. I have no time for guys like you that think they have it all worse while the rest of us had it easy and decide that the risks are too much yet complain that that life isn't working out for them.

Look, I'll be the most supportive guy if all you did was see that the stereotypes and the risks are all in your head. Sure it's not easy, but you don't have it worse than anyone so I think for yourself, you should step back an contemplate on how your life will be like when you're 30. Do you want to be closeted by that age as well when it's going to be harder again for you?

At the end of the day it's your life not mine. Nobody will ever miss you if you never come out because it will be as if you never existed to a lot of guys. But if you do decide to come out you could touch a lot of people, but most importantly, the man who you end up staying with.
There will always be support for you even if you think there isn't any. I was amazed by how the gay community was very supportive and reassuring to me when I was confused and needed it. It really helps.

Everyone just wants the best for you at heart so don't forget that man (:

[bleepp]

Originally Posted by 1ZRed

I have to go through a lot, pretty much by myself because of other things going on in my life right now, but it's only me that can make these decisions for myself. And that's not exactly little to worry about.

So what do you want to do? Meet guys off of sites and stay incognito? How are you supposed to even find a guy to settle down with if you really do not want to come out.
Look man, the longer you leave it the harder it's going to be and the more unhappy you will be in denying all of this. Wouldn't it be so much easier if you came out and was able to be open and relaxed about this instead of relying on blank profiles on websites?
I understand the stakes are high for you but honestly don't live up to your user name and remain fearfull. That's not a way to live by and it won't make you any happier but just waste your time.




Who's to say a guy won't come up to you if you were just drinking at the bar? If you hit into a guy and got talking you never know where things could go. He could be straight but you'd get that vibe off of him eventually anyway and no harm done. There are guys that are out there without a lot of confidence just like you so I wouldn't worry. And besides, if you do come out, a good chunk of confidence comes with it and it only keeps growing the more open and comfortable you get with yourself. You'll never become confident by using these sites though.



So that's how you're going to dismiss all my points? Just because of my age? Oh man don't you think I haven't realised that the world is definitely not sunshine and rainbows. You think I haven't found myself in very dark places or thought it would be best to stay in the closet or ignore my problems because of the potential consequences to myself and others?
No, I chose to confront them for better or worse because it's the right thing to do by me! Why would I let myself wallow in a sad and miserable life and not do anything to fix it because I was being dictated by fear of rejection?

If you want to keep on the way you're going then why did you ever ask for advice? I think you were expecting for somebody to agree with what you were doing to justify it and be completely reassuring and supportive. You'll have the latter but I never got the full package or had anything completely smooth and easy so whenever I see this for a guy you're age I tell them to cop onto themselves for their own good.

I think that's the worst thing that an 18 year old can see what you're doing wrong in terms of ignoring all of this out of pure fear. Your life isn't all that special or different to a lot of gay guys and the stakes aren't higher and the consequences any greater than everyone else. I just read about a guy who was in his 30's here who had a child and yet still confronted his sexuality and was open with himself and is now happy and has a boyfriend who is committed to him.
He had it very tough and I have a huge amount of respect for someone who could do that. It isn't easy at all. So I think you should look at how other people have it too.

Now since you were so quick to make assumptions about me based on my age alone and ignore everything else, then I'll do just that with you.
To me, all you're doing is making things appear as though it's all so tough for you and you're the only one struggling away.
You're not.
So if you want to be that guy that is in the closet all his life, go right ahead. That's the lonely road full of a lot of regret, disappointment and a heap of 'what ifs'. I know this is a very hard thing to do but if you want to find that perfect guy that lives up to all your expectations, he won't be found if you're stuck in the closet and totally disillusioned to what it is to be gay and everything that comes with it if you so readily critisised something you never experienced. (calling back on the gay bar comment)

To me it's you who's being immature about this whole situation by letting your fear take over and feeling like you should give up because it's all so hopeless. You're a man, no excuses, no whining. Some men go through this much later in life when the consequences are much more severe so I have little sympathy for you if you think that way. If you keep going the way you are with the brakes on with all of this, you'll be joining their ranks in no time.
Time will only pass you by and what will you have achieved for yourself?
I think that's the worst outcome and the biggest consequence by not doing anything.

I'll be perfectly honest. I have no time for guys like you that think they have it all worse while the rest of us had it easy and decide that the risks are too much yet complain that that life isn't working out for them.

Look, I'll be the most supportive guy if all you did was see that the stereotypes and the risks are all in your head. Sure it's not easy, but you don't have it worse than anyone so I think for yourself, you should step back an contemplate on how your life will be like when you're 30. Do you want to be closeted by that age as well when it's going to be harder again for you?

At the end of the day it's your life not mine. Nobody will ever miss you if you never come out because it will be as if you never existed to a lot of guys. But if you do decide to come out you could touch a lot of people, but most importantly, the man who you end up staying with.
There will always be support for you even if you think there isn't any. I was amazed by how the gay community was very supportive and reassuring to me when I was confused and needed it. It really helps.

Everyone just wants the best for you at heart so don't forget that man (:

I cant "like" posts yet so ill comment.
Couldn't agree with you more with all you said. Well done for having such a mature mind. I'm reading it in general and not especially referring to the OP.

I'm 21 not out yet and am terrified about doing it but if being out means I'll be truly happy then i'm going to do it. life is for living. I often think that in a few short decades we will all be dead and gone, nothing well be left of us except a headstone bearing our name and a few dusty pictures in an attic somewhere so why the hell spend your life worrying about being gay when it's who you are. Staying in the closet immediately limits your options and tears away any chance of finding love and being happy. I know its terrifically traumatizing to envisage telling people but life is full of difficult situations that have to be dealt with, and usually when you hit them head on you realize that they weren't as major as you previously thought.

The biggest problem of course is rejection or the fear of upsetting people, especially family. But if I spend my life refusing to tell people I'm gay because they might not like me, amen't I then just doing what I fear they will do and refusing to like or love myself for who I am as a person? In a way its about accepting yourself and loving who you are first (something I've done only very recently) only then your sexuality will seem a lot clearer. That being said I'm still fearful of coming out but it's something I have to do.

I came across this poem recently, anyone with a grounding in the magical world of Leaving Cert poetry should be able to read betwen the lines

She had blue skin.
And so did he.
He kept it hid
And so did she.
They searched for blue
Their whole life through,
Then passed right by –
And never knew.

Thanks 1ZRed your post was a rock of sense!

[face1990]

My two cents:

Coming out not only helps you mentally & emotionally (keeping something like that bottled up isn't healthy in the long term), but it can also help you to meet guys. I've recently gotten my first proper relationship going and I only met the guy through mutual friends who knew we were both gay and introduced us. Not like set us up on a date, just invited us both along to a party and we hit it off.

As for having trouble finding people with similar interests: part of the fun is finding out what the person is into, and unexpected stuff that you have in common. (plus, on dating websites people don't bother listing every single game, tv show, book etc that they like). Treat that as part of the adventure.
And even if it turns out you have literally nothing in common and you only have one date, then you end having lost nothing but gained invaluable experience.

To quote the Communist Manifesto, you have nothing to lose but your chains; you have the world to win!

[ongarboy]

OP - you are getting some wonderful responses here - particularly from the last three posters. I hope you take on board and act on some of the advice they provided.

You fear the risks of coming out. Would it help to write down a list of the risks on one side and benefits on the the other side and see what outweighs the other. I'm hoping benefits like honesty with yourself and others, freedom, inner peace, lack of burden on your shoulders, increased options for meeting new friends and hopefully a soul mate will be more important to you than risks such as a minority of ill informed people frowning upon you, career impact (you are protected legally from discrimination), "friends" that no longer value you (but in turn highlights the fact that they were never real friends anyway if they would treat you this way - ultimately a benefit).

Be brave -you don't need to rush it either as this is such an important thing but don't wait until your 30s and 40s and regret all those lost years.

[eaglach]

Originally Posted by filmbuffboy

why do you need to find a guy with the same interests?

Originally Posted by filmbuffboy

i honestly think so many gay men out there are single cause they are too picky.

I'm going to have to be brief because I have a lot of comments to respond to! I apologise. As I said before, the only guy I've been really interested in has had the same interests as me. Other guys may be attractive or funny, but they just don't stick in my mind as someone I'd be interested in. I don't think about them at all when I'm not around them. Is that being too picky?

Originally Posted by 1ZRed

How are you supposed to even find a guy to settle down with if you really do not want to come out.
Look man, the longer you leave it the harder it's going to be and the more unhappy you will be in denying all of this. Wouldn't it be so much easier if you came out and was able to be open and relaxed about this instead of relying on blank profiles on websites?
I understand the stakes are high for you but honestly don't live up to your user name and remain fearfull. That's not a way to live by and it won't make you any happier but just waste your time.

Who's to say a guy won't come up to you if you were just drinking at the bar? If you hit into a guy and got talking you never know where things could go. He could be straight but you'd get that vibe off of him eventually anyway and no harm done. There are guys that are out there without a lot of confidence just like you so I wouldn't worry. And besides, if you do come out, a good chunk of confidence comes with it and it only keeps growing the more open and comfortable you get with yourself. You'll never become confident by using these sites though.

First of all, I'm surprised someone caught on to my name!

Secondly, as I said, I am out to some of my close friends. I got it off my chest and it has been a release, but I don't feel the need to tell anyone else. I don't see why I should have to tell anyone actually. Maybe if a conversation actually lead to that situation I might tell them, but just to say it for no reason?

Originally Posted by 1ZRed

To me, all you're doing is making things appear as though it's all so tough for you and you're the only one struggling away.
You're not.
So if you want to be that guy that is in the closet all his life, go right ahead. That's the lonely road full of a lot of regret, disappointment and a heap of 'what ifs'. I know this is a very hard thing to do but if you want to find that perfect guy that lives up to all your expectations, he won't be found if you're stuck in the closet and totally disillusioned to what it is to be gay and everything that comes with it if you so readily critisised something you never experienced. (calling back on the gay bar comment)

To me it's you who's being immature about this whole situation by letting your fear take over and feeling like you should give up because it's all so hopeless. You're a man, no excuses, no whining. Some men go through this much later in life when the consequences are much more severe so I have little sympathy for you if you think that way. If you keep going the way you are with the brakes on with all of this, you'll be joining their ranks in no time.
Time will only pass you by and what will you have achieved for yourself?
I think that's the worst outcome and the biggest consequence by not doing anything.

Well again, I am out to friends. What I'm worried about is certain people finding out. If you have the mentality that "oh it doesn't matter who knows as long as you're happy" that's bull****. Especially with regards to work. If someone in work found out I was gay, others could find out. Maybe my boss is a homophobe and I'd miss a promotion, or worse, fired. That's a realistic fear and not something that should be risked just for a night out in The George.

Originally Posted by 1ZRed

I'll be perfectly honest. I have no time for guys like you that think they have it all worse while the rest of us had it easy and decide that the risks are too much yet complain that that life isn't working out for them.

Well thats just putting words in my mouth. When did I ever say that I had it worse than others?

Originally Posted by face1990

Coming out not only helps you mentally & emotionally (keeping something like that bottled up isn't healthy in the long term), but it can also help you to meet guys. I've recently gotten my first proper relationship going and I only met the guy through mutual friends who knew we were both gay and introduced us. Not like set us up on a date, just invited us both along to a party and we hit it off.

I think the real problem is that I don't know anyone like me. Lets say I know one hundred or so guys personally around my age. Not one of them that I know is a "straight-acting" gay guy. A guy like me. Is it that 99% of straight acting guys stay in the closet? What's the deal? I know people tell me online that they are not camp and out, but I just find it all hard to belive to be honest.

Originally Posted by ongarboy

You fear the risks of coming out. Would it help to write down a list of the risks on one side and benefits on the the other side and see what outweighs the other. I'm hoping benefits like honesty with yourself and others, freedom, inner peace, lack of burden on your shoulders, increased options for meeting new friends and hopefully a soul mate will be more important to you than risks such as a minority of ill informed people frowning upon you, career impact (you are protected legally from discrimination), "friends" that no longer value you (but in turn highlights the fact that they were never real friends anyway if they would treat you this way - ultimately a benefit).

Be brave -you don't need to rush it either as this is such an important thing but don't wait until your 30s and 40s and regret all those lost years.

I don't have the time to comment on everything that was said here but as said above, my career could be affected - laws can't protect you against something that can't be proven (discrimination).

I don't know why this has turned into a conversation about me coming out when I am out to friends. It has certainly strayed off-topic.

[Aurongroove]

I know people tell me online that they are not camp and out, but I just find it all hard to belive to be honest.

I find this interesting.

So altogether you're saying you'd never go to gay venues, You're not prepared to take any risks in straight venues and added to that, you don't believe guys on-line who claim to be out but also say they're 'not camp'.

First of all, come on dude. Do you realistically believe you're the only person who's a "straight acting" gay man? I already know so many people on this forum alone who can relate to your precise story.
Don't believe me? Just read some of the other threads. You're bound to find one. What's more if someone dosn't start a thread containing at least one paragraph about "not being a typical gay/not liking camp behaviour" in the next 30 days, I will eat my tank top.

Secondly, a question. How put off are you by camp behaviour? are you put off a normal amount or are you actually intolerant of it? I mean Jesus; you meet a guy, he's too camp, you move on. It's not like your going to lose your testicles.
I met a guy the last day I had my eye on for a week or two. He finally decided to say something to me and he had the strongest ****ing gay lisp I'd ever heard. I polity laughed back at whatever he said, had a friendly conversation with him and subsequently parted ways: easy.

Thirdly, if you A; will never go to gay venue, B; won't take risks with seemingly straight people who are probably straight in straight venues and C; find it hard to accept the creditability of online gayfolk, Then you're knocking out three of the biggest avenues for socializing.
You need to either take a leap of faith or change your outlook.
You have no choice but to do at least some of these things. I chose to accept going to gay venues and accept on-line communication (as you may know). I still won't risk asking people in straight venues if they are or are not gay but hey, 2 out of 3 ain't bad. sure I get some iffy dates from the online part and sure I meet 60 "twinks" for every 1 person I find physically attractive in a gay venue. But at least I occasionally meet the right people, make great friends and have interesting nights out along the way.

Seriously man, there's some accurate responses to your woes in this thread.

[face1990]

Originally Posted by Aurongroove

I find this interesting.

So altogether you're saying you'd never go to gay venues, You're not prepared to take any risks in straight venues and added to that, you don't believe guys on-line who claim to be out but also say they're 'not camp'.

OP, I agree with what Aurongroove is saying. Personally, I myself am out to all of my family & friends (unemployed, so no work colleagues to speak of) and am very straight-acting. The problem is, you probably don't believe me.

You're complaining about the lack of straight acting gays, but also refusing to believe anyone who says they are. It's catch 22!
I think the problem isn't so much the lack of them, but your scepticism about the very existance of them!

I don't want this to seem overly critical of you OP, I mean it as constructive criticism. We all face problems like this and sometimes we need outside perspectives to show us where we're going wrong, or thinking the wrong way about our problem.

[1ZRed]

First of all, I'm surprised someone caught on to my name!

Secondly, as I said, I am out to some of my close friends. I got it off my chest and it has been a release, but I don't feel the need to tell anyone else. I don't see why I should have to tell anyone actually. Maybe if a conversation actually lead to that situation I might tell them, but just to say it for no reason?

I caught onto it straight away. I'm a fluent Irish speaker.

Well that's fine you don't have to tell more people because it's your decision but I'm surprised you're still so reserved about being gay and trying to hide it. If you were truely comfortable with it you would be more free to do what you wanted without any reservations. But I can see you are not.

Well again, I am out to friends. What I'm worried about is certain people finding out. If you have the mentality that "oh it doesn't matter who knows as long as you're happy" that's bull****. Especially with regards to work. If someone in work found out I was gay, others could find out. Maybe my boss is a homophobe and I'd miss a promotion, or worse, fired. That's a realistic fear and not something that should be risked just for a night out in The George.

So what's bull****? What the **** do you want? You want to be closeted because you can't face the reactions that are mostly in your head? I understand you want to be carefull at work but you're not the first gay guy to ever work somewhere. So you shouldn't let that be a factor in influencing what you do in your personal life. Fuck sake, my sister works in an office full of gay men. Some camp, some masculine. It's not a big deal and I've grown to understand that, how come in your years you haven't learned to do the same?
You love to think about the "what ifs" and the fear of doing anything.
Your boss can't discriminate against you and you aren't the only gay guy where you work so it's not as if it's going to be a massive event where you get fired, unless you work at a church.
Sorry to break what special thing you had going where you thought you were the only one.
And once I'm fully out should I hide that from my employer too just because it might be taken badly? No. I have too much self respect for that. Being gay isn't some flaw to be hidden, and over the last year, I've come to realise that.



And I'm not saying go to a gay bar. You seem to think that's where we all love to go once we've come out and that's where you have to be. Go to a straight bar and meet guys. If you're there with your 'out' friends they'll point you to a gay friend of theirs or be your wing man and take the pressure off you. It's what the majority of straight lads do because women came be very intimidating. And it's an absolute laugh to go on the pull with your mates and have each others backs.

Well thats just putting words in my mouth. When did I ever say that I had it worse than others?

You said you were 'the only one' and that you're afraid you'll wind up alone and I wouldn't understand anything because I see the world as 'rainbows and sunshine' while you have it tough in the real world with all your worries that I'm without.
How much clearer do I have to be? You're playing the victim and it's your own fault for locking yourself away from these experiences because of your fear and misplaced stereotypes and assumptions. But it's alright because you justify it because only camp flamers do those things. Which you strongly protest you're not and think the majority of guys are. You're wrong.

I think the real problem is that I don't know anyone like me. Lets say I know one hundred or so guys personally around my age. Not one of them that I know is a "straight-acting" gay guy. A guy like me. Is it that 99% of straight acting guys stay in the closet? What's the deal? I know people tell me online that they are not camp and out, but I just find it all hard to belive to be honest.

And how would you know?you've never been out on the scene to call those shots and come up with that figure! You haven't seen gay guys at a straight club because you haven't looked or noticed them because they look like normal guys and you're too afraid to go find out. Likewise, you never went to a gay club to see normal guys there either.
You're in no position to make assumptions if you haven't even entered the 'real world' as you say. Websites are not reality so I would stop making statements like that purely based on them alone.
The majority of gay guys I meet are straight acting and masculine. I notice them because I go out and find them. If all you did was step back and look in, all you would see is camp men because they stick out and are noticeable whereas the normal guys are just that - normal, so we blend into the straight guys. Btw I have never been with a camp guy ever. All very masculine. That 99% in closet figure is in your head because the masculine guys make up the majority by far. If you got out there you'd realise it pretty quickly.

And even on those websites it is predominantly masculine guys that I see and when messaging back and forth, I know damn well that they are masculine and not camp. It's really obvious in their humour and wording but I think you're just so against anything remotely camp, that any little thing that doesn't suit you scares you off. That or you don't have a good judge of character.
If you're using blank profiles on these sites no normal guy will give you the light of day. I wouldn't and lots of guys like me wouldn't either. Even on the websites you're limiting your options.

Honestly man, you claim to want straight acting guys yet you don't sound all that much like it to me if all you do is whine, complain and stay shrouded in fear from the repercussions of it all. You're a man, grow a pair of balls and get about being open about yourself and out there on the scene, otherwise stop complaining if you can't find a guy. I wouldn't want someone who was so afraid of being outed. Fair enough you're out to friends, but you haven't done anything substantial with it when you have the support.

There's little to lose and a lot to gain. All those fears aren't real. They never are. Every single guy that comes out makes mountains out of molehills with this, me included, so it won't be as bad as you think, far from it. I think you just need to give yourself a fair shot at finding a guy and be fulfilled by that without any limits getting in the way.

I don't know why this has turned into a conversation about me coming out when I am out to friends. It has certainly strayed off-topic.

Well what do you want? You're just telling us you can't find any guys like you when you haven't looked away from your computer screen to find them.
If you're going to ignore the advice and valid points of the guys here and not take anything way from it, then what the hell do you want from us?
I have my own experience and these guys have theirs in abundance so why not listen up and take it onboard. You know I was a lot like you not so long ago but I'm learning fast and becoming more comfortable with it all so it's slow but steady progress in the right direction.
You call me a kid but between the two of us, who is the one learning, setting the fear aside and going out to experience this with an open mind? It's me, the kid.

It's you that's the basis of your problem and once you sort out our deluded mindset and warped assumptions about the "gay scene" then you'll find that guy no bother. I know I'm coming down on you hard but I just don't get what you want if you're not going to listen to what these guys are saying and not put yourself out there for your own good. Whatever you had to lose wasn't yours to own in the first place. It's not going to be an easy thing to accept or hear but it's true. You'll always get support and reasurance if you ask for it so you'll never have to worry about that man.

At the end of the day all you have is yourself and if you deny yourself all of that, you've only ever lived a half life and for what and for who, if you never found the guy to settle down with

[floggg]

First off, what was so hard to suss out about the user name? Should be obvious to anybody who did 6th class Irish?

A lot has been said already, which I won't rehash, but I do have to say one thing. I get that you have concerns about work, etc, fair enough. I don't know what you work at and whether there are any particular risks in the job compared to the rest of us (teaching in a catholic school for example). However, the vast majority of gay people who are "out" have to face much the same risks in their job. It's not that we have a "sure aren't we happy being gay, who care about work" attitude.

Its that we take the view that the risks and consequences quite frankly arent so grave that we should make ourselves miserable by hiding in the closet rather than living our lives.

It's a choice. You can choose to put your work and career over your happiness if you want. But you need to be conscious that its a choice that your making, and you have to accept that it will mean that your opportunities to meet people and have relationships will be greatly reduced. if your job means that much to you, fine.

Personally though I dont think any job is worth living my life in fear.

Frankly i think you still have a lot of hang-ups and misconceptions about being gay. I've been there myself, but its something you need to get over. The only way you can do that is to get out there and meet actual gay people. Not even in night clubs, but in any of the social groups - wet and wild, the soccer or rugby teams, the tennis or squash - there's loads of them.

I don't think there is any point in making the point about how "normal" and "masculine" most gay men are. i think you need to get out there and see for yourself.

You don't have to come out to do so - its not like everybody shows up to these things in rainbow uniforms. there is plenty of people in these groups who aren't fully out.

If you choose not to do these things though, then you unfortunately struggle to meet the type of guys you want to.

[bleepp]

Originally Posted by floggg

I don't know what you work at and whether there are any particular risks in the job compared to the rest of us (teaching in a catholic school for example).

With all going to plan I should be a qualified Primary Teacher in two years but surly you couldn't be denied a job based on sexuality? I know its the board of management that ultimately hires you, of which the local Priest is usually the head so I suppose it could happen? and with 93% of Primary schools under the patronage of the Catholic Church the chances are I'll find myself looking for a job in one.

[floggg]

Originally Posted by bleepp

With all going to plan I should be a qualified Primary Teacher in two years but surly you couldn't be denied a job based on sexuality? I know its the board of management that ultimately hires you, of which the local Priest is usually the head so I suppose it could happen? and with 93% of Primary schools under the patronage of the Catholic Church the chances are I'll find myself looking for a job in one.

Unfortunately theres a carve out from equality legislation for religious institutions that allows them to discriminate against stff on religious grounds. So there are risks for teachers in being out in work.

[mango salsa]

Originally Posted by bleepp

With all going to plan I should be a qualified Primary Teacher in two years but surly you couldn't be denied a job based on sexuality? I know its the board of management that ultimately hires you, of which the local Priest is usually the head so I suppose it could happen? and with 93% of Primary schools under the patronage of the Catholic Church the chances are I'll find myself looking for a job in one.

I'm not sure how section 37 operates - anyway maybe that should be here

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=73123847

[mnlad]

been reading this tread and i kinda get were the OP is coming from on certain points, i think basically OP you havent reached a stage were you have accepted yourself, now i cant particulary talk as only very recently when some things were put in perspective did i accept myself and so far i gotta say im a different person mentally in myself i feel so much happier with just the little step of accepting myself, before when i was fighting with myself i had that opinion that number 1 all guys would out me if they were out and that all guys i chated with on grindr etc where camp sterotypical guys, but ive since copped myself on and actually chatted with these guys without a predetermined mindset and ive been chatting with a really great guy and so far its looking great, also on the meeting guys even in pubs ive caught myself checking out guys and getting the eyes back but i never acted on it, even in college i got hit on more times from guys on nights out than girls so much so that my friends suggested i go gay how ironic even they knew before i did but, but those were guys i never suspected at all and i started realising that i hey i might just find a guy like me into sports, cars etc... but i think OP when you reach that stage were you finally say hey im gay time to get on with life and stop feeling sorry for myself its a great feeling, dont get me wrong still a way to go personnally and i dont plan on telling the world im gay just a few select friends, but you have got some great advice here from everyone and its great that there is the support here, its very helpful to read other peoples comments experiences etc... and its given me the get up to stop mopping around and get on with my life because i realise now i was my own worst enemy, it took me nearly 10 years to finally accept myself only wish i had earlier but it takes its own time i guess

[eaglach]

Originally Posted by Aurongroove

First of all, come on dude. Do you realistically believe you're the only person who's a "straight acting" gay man? I already know so many people on this forum alone who can relate to your precise story.
Don't believe me? Just read some of the other threads. You're bound to find one. What's more if someone dosn't start a thread containing at least one paragraph about "not being a typical gay/not liking camp behaviour" in the next 30 days, I will eat my tank top.

I never said I was the only straight acting guy. People putting words in my mouth again.

Originally Posted by face1990

OP, I agree with what Aurongroove is saying. Personally, I myself am out to all of my family & friends (unemployed, so no work colleagues to speak of) and am very straight-acting. The problem is, you probably don't believe me.

You're complaining about the lack of straight acting gays, but also refusing to believe anyone who says they are. It's catch 22!
I think the problem isn't so much the lack of them, but your scepticism about the very existance of them!

Well, I have yet to meet a straight acting gay guy. I do not know one straight acting guy. I have met a couple guys from online who said they were straight acting but were far from it. Maybe I've just been unlucky, but I'm basing it on experience.

Originally Posted by 1ZRed

Well that's fine you don't have to tell more people because it's your decision but I'm surprised you're still so reserved about being gay and trying to hide it. If you were truely comfortable with it you would be more free to do what you wanted without any reservations. But I can see you are not.

I am free to do what I want. There is nothing stopping me from doing what I want. Anything I do is a choice, not something that is forced upon me. I choose not to go to gay bars/clubs.

Originally Posted by 1ZRed

Your boss can't discriminate against you and you aren't the only gay guy where you work so it's not as if it's going to be a massive event where you get fired, unless you work at a church.
Sorry to break what special thing you had going where you thought you were the only one.
And once I'm fully out should I hide that from my employer too just because it might be taken badly? No. I have too much self respect for that. Being gay isn't some flaw to be hidden, and over the last year, I've come to realise that.

You're being a bit dramatic... again. I don't believe myself to be the only gay guy in a job despite what you think. Just think, if you were going for a job interview and lets say you were into Death Metal music, would you mention that to your employer? Probably not. Why not? Of course there's nothing wrong with liking that music, but it might hamper your chances of being hired. Same thing with mentioning being gay. Personal life and work life shouldn't mix.

Originally Posted by 1ZRed

And I'm not saying go to a gay bar. You seem to think that's where we all love to go once we've come out and that's where you have to be. Go to a straight bar and meet guys. If you're there with your 'out' friends they'll point you to a gay friend of theirs or be your wing man and take the pressure off you. It's what the majority of straight lads do because women came be very intimidating. And it's an absolute laugh to go on the pull with your mates and have each others backs.

Ha, I definitely would never 'go on the pull' with my mates. I think it would be extremely awkward for everyone involved!

Originally Posted by 1ZRed

You said you were 'the only one'

I never said that. You seem to enjoy making things up. In fact, searching through the pages, you seem to be the one that keeps saying I'm the only one. I think you're getting a bit confused.

Originally Posted by 1ZRed

And how would you know?you've never been out on the scene to call those shots and come up with that figure! You haven't seen gay guys at a straight club because you haven't looked or noticed them because they look like normal guys and you're too afraid to go find out. Likewise, you never went to a gay club to see normal guys there either.
You're in no position to make assumptions if you haven't even entered the 'real world' as you say. Websites are not reality so I would stop making statements like that purely based on them alone.
The majority of gay guys I meet are straight acting and masculine. I notice them because I go out and find them. If all you did was step back and look in, all you would see is camp men because they stick out and are noticeable whereas the normal guys are just that - normal, so we blend into the straight guys. Btw I have never been with a camp guy ever. All very masculine. That 99% in closet figure is in your head because the masculine guys make up the majority by far. If you got out there you'd realise it pretty quickly.

My assumptions were based of my own experiences. As I said above, I don't know any straight acting gay guys and the guys I met online claimed to be straight acting and weren't.

Originally Posted by 1ZRed

And even on those websites it is predominantly masculine guys that I see and when messaging back and forth, I know damn well that they are masculine and not camp. It's really obvious in their humour and wording but I think you're just so against anything remotely camp, that any little thing that doesn't suit you scares you off. That or you don't have a good judge of character.

I have talked to many guys online. I have chatted to many for a good deal of time as well. Sure some of them are nice and friendly, but I will agree with you on one thing - any sign of campness and I'm outta there. It's just a complete turn off.

Originally Posted by 1ZRed

Well what do you want? You're just telling us you can't find any guys like you when you haven't looked away from your computer screen to find them.

Well technically, seeing as I'm trying to find guys online like me, wouldn't guys like me also be online? I'd imagine a guy like me (or a guy I would like) wouldn't be in gay bars or clubs.

Originally Posted by 1ZRed

If you're going to ignore the advice and valid points of the guys here and not take anything way from it, then what the hell do you want from us?

I appreciate all the comments, but it seems to mewhat you guys are saying is that the only way to find a guy with similar interests (similar interest also being not going to gay bars/clubs) is to go to a gay bar/club? I just don't understand it. However, I may decide to go to a gay bar one night, to get it out of my system, and to have a fully informed opinion on the matter. I think once I go, any arguement I make for or against gay bars will probably be a bit more valid.

Originally Posted by floggg

First off, what was so hard to suss out about the user name? Should be obvious to anybody who did 6th class Irish?

Well not many people understands Irish these days I'm afraid. And also, even if you understood the name you may not have associated it with the topics in my posts.

Originally Posted by floggg

It's a choice. You can choose to put your work and career over your happiness if you want. But you need to be conscious that its a choice that your making, and you have to accept that it will mean that your opportunities to meet people and have relationships will be greatly reduced. if your job means that much to you, fine.

Work and career over happiness? You do know you can gain happiness from your career as well, don't you? Not everyones life revolves around relationships. You have to strike a balance between work, relationships, leisure etc.

It's pretty late now, so I can really think clearly. Hopefully I've made some coherent comments! Thanks.