[yomchi]

Not to scare the pants of any new river runners out there but this is a video that shows a lad having taken a swim on a grade IV/V stretch in the states.
It follows on from a conversation i had with a fellow paddler about how useful defensive swimming actually is in water like this. His argument was defensive swimming didn't work in pushy water, he said it was impossible to get into defensive position and only hampered your ability to quickly get yourself out, he was speaking from experience having taken a bad swim on the Upper Liffey in big water.



Opinions on the usefulness of defensive swimming when faced with this kind of flow?

[carthoris]

Originally Posted by yomchi

His argument was defensive swimming didn't work in pushy water, he said it was impossible to get into defensive position and only hampered your ability to quickly get yourself out ...

Opinions on the usefulness of defensive swimming when faced with this kind of flow?

I reckon if I was in that position (I haven't and only due to the lack experience of water that size) I would try and get into a defensive swimming position as soon as I got out of the boat to keep me safe whilst I get my bearings and decide what I can do. Once I spot something I need to avoid or an eddy I could get into it would be straight into offensive mode to get where I need to be.

So I think that defensive swimming is useful no matter what the flow. It might be very difficult to do it in large flows but attempting to get into that position has to be far better than just falling down the river.

[KenHy]

Swimming in continuous big volume water like that is not fun (speaking from experience )

Best option in such a scenario is to conserve energy (lying on your back -i.e. deffensive swiming - so you can see the next wave and time your breath) and take guidance from someone else in their boat who can tell you where to go - they will be able to see much further and can tell you swim left/right/to the eddy/bunch up as there's a big hole or whatever. If they are confident enough they might let you hold the tail of their boat - but they'd probably want to know you well enough to know you'll let go if they need you too!

In the case your on your own it's a difficult one. Defencive swimming's purpose is to protect you from hitting rocks and other nasties which can hurt you (not much of an issue in big volume) and to give you sight of what's coming up ahead so you can turn on your front and aggressively avoid hazards and get out of the river (and on big volume you won't be able to see past the next wave).

So I'd be aggressively swimming for a bank - It's not an ideal option, you still won't know where your going & you can't be sure there is an eddy there and that's where the nasties are going to be if they are around at all (overhanging trees, shallow rocks etc..), but it's better than staying in the river.

One thing I did find helpful is holding onto your boat - it floats higher than you so it does give you a bit more perspective of whats coming up and allows you to save some energy till the point where you need to aggressively swim to get yourself out of the water!

The important point (as it is with all swims) is getting yourself out of the water - so deffensive swiming is always going to be of limited help as it'll never get you out!

[nookie]

Lesson to learn from this video: Not enough experienced boaters on the water. Two instructors with a group, one instructor swims - leaving one experienced boater to effect a rescue. Not good odds. In water like that (and it should be noted that the river in the above example is not even particularly big volume) a swimmer will find it virtually impossible to swim to shore unaided. Ideally you will need several boaters to provide assistance and attempt to tow the swimmer until a suitable eddy can be found. In bigger water the biggest challenge you will face is not getting the swimmer out of the flow but rather getting them over the eddy line and into an eddy and you will need the help of more than one boater for that.

For me personally if I was the swimmer in the water, defensive swimming would not be an option. When your in a defensive swimming position you have limited directional control and very little ability to generate speed, something your going to need if your going to have to punch though holes. It is fine and valid on flat sections of flow but in a rapid I'd be swimming as aggressively as I possibly could.

Originally Posted by KenHy

One thing I did find helpful is holding onto your boat - it floats higher than you so it does give you a bit more perspective of whats coming up and allows you to save some energy till the point where you need to aggressively swim to get yourself out of the water!

This, for me is not something I would do, or advise others to do. Trust your buoyancy aid to do its job and get away from your boat. There is a very real danger of striking your boat and knocking yourself unconscious were you to become trapped in the same hydraulic as your boat.

[KenHy]

Originally Posted by nookie

This, for me is not something I would do, or advise others to do. Trust your buoyancy aid to do its job and get away from your boat. There is a very real danger of striking your boat and knocking yourself unconscious were you to become trapped in the same hydraulic as your boat.

Your Boyancy is never going to be as Boyent as a boat!

I'm not suggesting you hold onto it for long - just untill you orrientate and come up with a plan to get yourself out.

Obviously if boat is heading for a big hole or stuck in one already let go and go somewhere else! That's just comon sense.

As for getting the chance of getting knocked out? I'd take that over the much higher (in my opinion) chance of drawning due to being pulled under the whole time and not being able to see anything!

[nookie]

Originally Posted by KenHy

Your Boyancy is never going to be as Boyent as a boat!

Not sure I ever made such a claim. However depending on the boat and what was in the boat it may in fact be.

Originally Posted by KenHy

I'm not suggesting you hold onto it for long - just untill you orrientate and come up with a plan to get yourself out.

Obviously if boat is heading for a big hole or stuck in one already let go and go somewhere else! That's just comon sense.

None of this was apparent from your original post. However even with this new knowledge - I still don't think its good advice and personally I'd be staying well clear of my boat.

Originally Posted by KenHy

As for getting the chance of getting knocked out? I'd take that over the much higher (in my opinion) chance of drawning due to being pulled under the whole time and not being able to see anything!

Not sure where your coming to that conclusion. It is a risk. I've seen some pretty interesting injuries from boats being recirced in the same hole as a paddler. If your swimming in a hole your not going to end up drowning because you can't see anything.

[KenHy]

The OP asked about defensive swimming in continuous big volume and what others would do - not about swimming in a hole.

Having been in the unfortunate position of having swam on big contninuious big volume, I can safely say that holding onto the boat kept me above water, conserved my energy and allowed me to time my escape from the flow, had I not held on I would at best have spent a small amount of time above water between waves, possibly have spent plenty under it due to boils and I wouldn't have fancied my chances of having the energy to swim to safety where I did. As I said in my follow up post - to be applied with common sense, you won't be able to control where you go, so if your going somewhere undesirable, do something about it!

Obviously different situations which will require different actions - if it's a swim in a hole both defensive swimming and holding onto a boat would be poor choices, either curl up and hope to flush or make yourself big for a rope