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TenLeftFingers · 01-08-2012, 10:52

Hi,

I'm not a graphics pro, but I will be doing some posters in my spare time. I have been using the GNU Image Manipulation Program (GIMP) on Ubuntu, but now I have a Macbook Pro and want to get a faster workflow. I'm looking at Apple Pages and Swift Publisher but this is what I really need from my software:

Fast page layout with bleeds / margins easily changeable
Colour correctness (What get's printed should match what I see)
CMYK support (GIMP does not do this well at the moment)
Layer management for manipulating components seperately

Clipart is not important - I've never found clipart that I would use.
Templates probably not important - I haven't seen any great templates out there.
I don't create art by hand so I don't need painting tools as such, although I found the effects in GIMP very good for creating.

The main issues I'm trying to eliminate are the mismatch of colors (I know I need to calibrate my monitor for this) as well as the time in making fundamental changes at the end - eg document size. This usually necessitates a complete restart in GIMP (at least with my skill-set, I'm not faulting GIMP).

I've attached samples of the kind of work I'm doing. Any advice is appreciated (regarding software choice or the work itself).

Many thanks,
Ten

**5uspect** · 01-08-2012, 18:48

If you're coming from a Linux background and don't really want to spend serious cash as you're not a pro then you should consider Scribus.

TenLeftFingers · 01-08-2012, 20:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5uspect

If you're coming from a Linux background and don't really want to spend serious cash as you're not a pro then you should consider Scribus.

Thanks 5uspect, I have used Scribus on Ubuntu and while it was very good, there were occasional lock-ups with large files. Also PDF export had glitches in certain circumstances, although I may have been using Trunk version. Having said that, I may download the Mac release and see how it goes.

I'm happy to pay for something that works exceptionally well. Cost isn't the biggest concern for me here. I just need to be able to get a quality job done quickly.

flanree · 02-08-2012, 22:15

If cost isn't a big problem just get Adobe Creative Suite. InDesign within CS will handle the the layout and you can fine tune raster colours using Photoshop also included. This would be the industry standard software but also the priciest.

maringo · 03-08-2012, 01:04

Adobe creative suite is your man if cost isnt a big issue but there is a learning curve. You can never go by what you see on your screen. Get a pantone guide (hard copy swatches with their colour percentages) - will give you all the colours and code so you will get correct colour output from the press.

TenLeftFingers · 03-08-2012, 11:34

Thanks flanree & maringo. I look into the CS suite and see if it will solve my main problems.

I called some of my local printers and what they told me contradicted some information I've found online by searching. For example, they told me that they don't give .icc profiles to any of their clients and that they are only important to the likes of "Coca Cola" or people who are "very fussy about their colors". Yet the publishing articles I found online say this is important.

I was also told that if I wanted to draft up a color swatch, they would print one for me and help me see the difference. But I'm still not sure how to get the best color accuracy possible. Up until now, I've been going back and forth to the printers, adjusting my colors each time I get home. But this isn't practical long term.

The printers also prefer PDF output, in which case the likes of Scribus will support this. Can any Adobe users tell me what advantage Adobe CS could give me over Scribus? The images I attached in the first post were done with Scribus, Gimp and LibreOffice Draw

I'm a little surprised that a CMYK monitor hasn't been produced yet. I fully expected to be able to buy one, but searching just shows a 2010 patent by Apple for a CMY monitor which has not materialised.

maringo · 04-08-2012, 19:57

Might help your understanding of colour as applies to printing if you have a read on this site.

http://www.colorguides.net/

flanree · 11-08-2012, 01:10

I have been working in a large trade litho printing co. for the last 5 years. Maringo has it right, the best reference for a printer in colour matching is hard copy Pantone guides. The Pantone book that is invaluable is the Colour Bridge, that is the one Maringo mentioned which shows the Coated Pantone colour beside its closest CMYK match and gives you the CMYK breakdown of that match. I can tell you the general view of most printers is forget matching the colour on your monitor. It must be a CMYK or Spot Colour hard copy reference. No monitors are calibrated the same and furthermore they are only intended the reproduce the RGB spectrum not CMYK. Pantone introduced their CVC range in an attempt to use a monitor reference for colour as opposed to hard copy but it didn't translate to the print industry, more for web use. Likewise colour profiles are only as good as the CMYK breakdown they produce which is why printers aren't interested in which one you use. All they want to know is what is the CMYK breakdown to match or what Pantone if spot printing.
One other note, if you get posters done usually I assume you run small quantites, up to a few hundred? If so you probably use digital printers which vary dramatically in colour results as opposed to litho printers. A litho printer would have more control in balancing the CMYK inks but they would have a higher minimum quantity run, usually approx 1,000 units.

TenLeftFingers · 11-08-2012, 09:28

Thanks Flanree, that helps my understanding. It'll take me a while to get my head around using that stuff effectively - but from a phone call I've had with a printer recently I know that you're right about the printer used for printing in the low hundreds. They don't give the most faithful results.

<edit>
Okay, so I get that the color bridge shows how the RGB colour will look in CMYK. It sounds like something that would be important if there were a few colours I wanted to get spot on. But for an image with many colours it seems like a hopeless task?
</edit>

flanree · 12-08-2012, 05:44

It all comes back to your interpretation of getting colours spot on. If this means colours the same on paper as you saw on screen while designing you are making things very difficult for yourself. Remember all the variables you are up against: your monitor's calibration, gamma etc., the type of printer you use, the type of paper they use. The only true reference is the Adobe Colour Bridge book. If you are that concerned with matching your monitor to print the best advice would be to match the right side CMYK result in the Bridge book to the same CMYK breakdown colour on screen (in CMYK colour mode) and try a load of different colours until you set the monitor as close as possible. At least if these solids match close enough when you have an image with lots of colours e.g. a stock photo, you'll know you in the right ball park.

TenLeftFingers · 12-08-2012, 10:04

Ah, okay. So I'm still calibrating the monitor as opposed to tweaking each image - but using the Adobe Bridge Color book as a reference.

Am I right that I don't need to be using an Adobe product such as InDesign for this to work? I've purchased Apple Pages and I have Inkscape and Gimp for any other prep-work.

flanree · 12-08-2012, 16:26

Thats right, don't need Adobe but I would check the colours in different programs as each will have its own interpretation of colour. Make sure you only use the CMYK on the right of Pantone Bridge, not the spot colours on the left. And sorry I said Adobe Bridge in previous post, meant Pantone Colour Bridge, there is no Adobe bridge.

**5uspect** · 12-08-2012, 16:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by flanree

...there is no Adobe bridge.

Sure there is:
http://www.adobe.com/products/bridge.html

flanree · 12-08-2012, 23:34

grrrrr, i forgot about that thing, never use it!

11-08-2012, 09:28	#9
TenLeftFingers Registered User Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 484 Adverts \| Friends	Thanks Flanree, that helps my understanding. It'll take me a while to get my head around using that stuff effectively - but from a phone call I've had with a printer recently I know that you're right about the printer used for printing in the low hundreds. They don't give the most faithful results. <edit> Okay, so I get that the color bridge shows how the RGB colour will look in CMYK. It sounds like something that would be important if there were a few colours I wanted to get spot on. But for an image with many colours it seems like a hopeless task? </edit> Last edited by TenLeftFingers; 11-08-2012 at 09:33.

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01-08-2012, 18:48	#2
5uspect Moderator Join Date: May 2006 Location: Back from Abroad. Posts: 8,109 Adverts \| Friends Mod: Digital Art & Design	If you're coming from a Linux background and don't really want to spend serious cash as you're not a pro then you should consider Scribus.

02-08-2012, 22:15	#4
flanree Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Location: nitelink to clondalkin Posts: 441 Adverts \| Friends	If cost isn't a big problem just get Adobe Creative Suite. InDesign within CS will handle the the layout and you can fine tune raster colours using Photoshop also included. This would be the industry standard software but also the priciest.

03-08-2012, 01:04	#5
maringo Registered User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Dublin Posts: 548 Adverts \| Friends	Adobe creative suite is your man if cost isnt a big issue but there is a learning curve. You can never go by what you see on your screen. Get a pantone guide (hard copy swatches with their colour percentages) - will give you all the colours and code so you will get correct colour output from the press.

03-08-2012, 11:34	#6
TenLeftFingers Registered User Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 484 Adverts \| Friends	Thanks flanree & maringo. I look into the CS suite and see if it will solve my main problems. I called some of my local printers and what they told me contradicted some information I've found online by searching. For example, they told me that they don't give .icc profiles to any of their clients and that they are only important to the likes of "Coca Cola" or people who are "very fussy about their colors". Yet the publishing articles I found online say this is important. I was also told that if I wanted to draft up a color swatch, they would print one for me and help me see the difference. But I'm still not sure how to get the best color accuracy possible. Up until now, I've been going back and forth to the printers, adjusting my colors each time I get home. But this isn't practical long term. The printers also prefer PDF output, in which case the likes of Scribus will support this. Can any Adobe users tell me what advantage Adobe CS could give me over Scribus? The images I attached in the first post were done with Scribus, Gimp and LibreOffice Draw I'm a little surprised that a CMYK monitor hasn't been produced yet. I fully expected to be able to buy one, but searching just shows a 2010 patent by Apple for a CMY monitor which has not materialised.

04-08-2012, 19:57	#7
maringo Registered User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Dublin Posts: 548 Adverts \| Friends	Might help your understanding of colour as applies to printing if you have a read on this site. http://www.colorguides.net/

11-08-2012, 01:10	#8
flanree Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Location: nitelink to clondalkin Posts: 441 Adverts \| Friends	I have been working in a large trade litho printing co. for the last 5 years. Maringo has it right, the best reference for a printer in colour matching is hard copy Pantone guides. The Pantone book that is invaluable is the Colour Bridge, that is the one Maringo mentioned which shows the Coated Pantone colour beside its closest CMYK match and gives you the CMYK breakdown of that match. I can tell you the general view of most printers is forget matching the colour on your monitor. It must be a CMYK or Spot Colour hard copy reference. No monitors are calibrated the same and furthermore they are only intended the reproduce the RGB spectrum not CMYK. Pantone introduced their CVC range in an attempt to use a monitor reference for colour as opposed to hard copy but it didn't translate to the print industry, more for web use. Likewise colour profiles are only as good as the CMYK breakdown they produce which is why printers aren't interested in which one you use. All they want to know is what is the CMYK breakdown to match or what Pantone if spot printing. One other note, if you get posters done usually I assume you run small quantites, up to a few hundred? If so you probably use digital printers which vary dramatically in colour results as opposed to litho printers. A litho printer would have more control in balancing the CMYK inks but they would have a higher minimum quantity run, usually approx 1,000 units.

12-08-2012, 05:44	#10
flanree Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Location: nitelink to clondalkin Posts: 441 Adverts \| Friends	It all comes back to your interpretation of getting colours spot on. If this means colours the same on paper as you saw on screen while designing you are making things very difficult for yourself. Remember all the variables you are up against: your monitor's calibration, gamma etc., the type of printer you use, the type of paper they use. The only true reference is the Adobe Colour Bridge book. If you are that concerned with matching your monitor to print the best advice would be to match the right side CMYK result in the Bridge book to the same CMYK breakdown colour on screen (in CMYK colour mode) and try a load of different colours until you set the monitor as close as possible. At least if these solids match close enough when you have an image with lots of colours e.g. a stock photo, you'll know you in the right ball park.

12-08-2012, 10:04	#11
TenLeftFingers Registered User Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 484 Adverts \| Friends	Ah, okay. So I'm still calibrating the monitor as opposed to tweaking each image - but using the Adobe Bridge Color book as a reference. Am I right that I don't need to be using an Adobe product such as InDesign for this to work? I've purchased Apple Pages and I have Inkscape and Gimp for any other prep-work.

12-08-2012, 16:26	#12
flanree Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Location: nitelink to clondalkin Posts: 441 Adverts \| Friends	Thats right, don't need Adobe but I would check the colours in different programs as each will have its own interpretation of colour. Make sure you only use the CMYK on the right of Pantone Bridge, not the spot colours on the left. And sorry I said Adobe Bridge in previous post, meant Pantone Colour Bridge, there is no Adobe bridge.

12-08-2012, 23:34	#14
flanree Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Location: nitelink to clondalkin Posts: 441 Adverts \| Friends	grrrrr, i forgot about that thing, never use it!