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View Poll Results: Will Waterford Win Waterford?
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01-08-2012, 18:29   #4531
Mountainlad
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When I said neither can win their own ball I was referring to Mahony and Shanahan and not Mullane and Walsh which in fairness is what it looked like.

I rate Fives too, Im just of the opinion that he wont develop into a "top" intercounty player. Im not talking about a team that can compete, Im talking about a team that can win an All Ireland. I acknowledge that a lot of the current younger players could develop but I just don't think they have it in them to develop into really top players. I'm talking about Ken and Tony quality here. Of course I hope I'm wrong.
Ken and Tony are two of the top hurlers in the past 20 years. Nicky English says Ken is the best since he started playing, and Tony is a phenomenon.

What we need is a team of very good players with some just being good players.

I don't consider us to have really challenged for an all-ireland really since 2007. Even then, we never even took on the eventual winners, but any games since against the best or 2 best teams we were never in danger of winning.

The only teams challenging for the All-Ireland this year now are Galway, Tipp and Kilkenny. Cork won't win it. They may beat Galway, and they may keep it 'competitive' against whoever wins the other semi, but they won't beat them.

I would agree with Blue Note. We have an outside chance of being a team that can challenge next year and the year after. We need to improve and not be hampered by players retiring or leaving the panel for whatever reason, and we need the young players that are there to improve.

I believe practically all of those young players that started v Cork will improve. I also believe Gavin O'Brien will, though time will tell whether it's enough in one year to be able to be a starter for Waterford, but he certainly has a role to play next year.

We also need one or two more players to come through to strengthen the bench and the starting team.

As Blue Note said, an outside chance, but with that in mind saying we'll fall off the face of the earth is a bit rash.

Last edited by Mountainlad; 01-08-2012 at 21:08.
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01-08-2012, 18:32   #4532
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There's not an awful lot I agree with you on here, I'm afraid. That we've a good midfield, that Prender is a good ball winner and that's his sole purpose, and that Brick hasn't been as good as he has the last couple of years while remaining a solid center back.

I can't fathom your views on Darragh Fives. I've a very high opinion of him, thought he was brilliant in his first year last year bar the Munster Final which I certainly wouldn't hold against him. For his consistency and class, Colin Fennelly has been Kilkenny's best forward this year and was very good last year. Darragh held him though. He played Center Back for UCC when they won the Fitzgibbon this year, and I heard he was hurling super stuff with Waterford in challenges and training before injury ruined his year. At only 20 years of age, I really can't believe you could be so harsh...and wrong. Tony Browne captained an all-ireland winning u21 team at 19 sure, but the following year at 20 he played with Waterford when they lost to Kerry. People thought Brick was going to be a footballer when he was 20, and while he has those outstanding physical attributes and a great brain, Darragh is more skilful.

As for Philip Mahony, it's taken him a while to cement a place but he's had a pretty good season. God knows Galway have had enough problems in midfield over the years, Tipp are carrying Shane McGrath in my opinion, and Kilkenny without Fennelly and Rice starting were destroyed by Galway, even though they in turn had destroyed Dublin. He's a good player and I can see him improving. Maybe he'll never be Tony Browne, but I don't think that's a fair comparison nor reason to right him off as an inter-county hurler.

Shane Walsh can't win his own ball , yet you describe him as an industrious player? Did you see his catch for his point? He also prevented Cork from winning clean ball and kept the ball in the forwards while he was on, and was crystal clear the loss that was when he went off injured.

I also remember Mullane making a great catch and spear heading attacks by picking up loose ball when players were trying to get the ball off the ground, so I don't agree there either.

I'll agree Maurice's decisions in possession need to improve, but he's better than the player I saw this time last year and still young.

Mahony is the same age as Fives, and he has had a serious operation, yet he's managed to come back and put in a good shift for half a match against Tipp and score 0-3 points from play against Cork. Take John Mullane aside for a minute, what other half-forward have we had that can score that in the last few years?

I agree we have had no luck finding a second corner forward, and I also agree Brian O'Sullivan is best placed to try and sort that next year, but each year is different and I wouldn't be suprised to see more new faces to enter the fray next year. In fact, I expect it.

Provided nobody outside of Tony retires, I see no reason we can't maintain and even improve our team from this year. It must be said that most teams in the Country are improving too and it's becoming a really competitive and great championship, but we can certainly stay in the mix. The one team that you can definitely say is declining is Kilkenny, even though they probably still are the best team in the Country. Surely that can only be good news to any potential challengers?

Tony did not play in the championship in 1993. Its the only year since 1992 that he didnt play. He may have been in the panel to play Kerry but did not play and did not come on as a sub.

Lads can we stop talkin about Kerry 93, lol...... The darkest of days lol
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01-08-2012, 20:23   #4533
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Looking back at the year just past seen as our championship is over I wouldn't look back and feel very happy. Go back to when Ballygunner were defeated by an up and coming Na Piarsaigh of Limerick, does this sound familiar as its only a few days since we gave an up and coming Cork a path to a Semi Final that I taught we would have had a great chance of winning. So here we are looking at next year for our senior panel. We are wasting our time hoping we will find players to compete at senior level without looking at trying to win at underage first. Wouldn't it look a lot rosier now if our Under 21's or our minors were still left in the championship. Ask any Clare man how he feels about next year and where their hope comes from. Its a pity our Under 21's and Minors were defeated so badly this year when lets face it we had a lot of faith in one of them making a breakthrough this year. What team will fear us next year, not many I fear looking at our recent record. I will be sick as a pig if Cork beat Galway and watch them get ready for an All Ireland. That could have been us will play on my mind till Sept. Then again Galway could play like they did against Kilkenny who knows. Back to the local championship so and let hope we see something new that will give us a bit of hope.
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01-08-2012, 20:35   #4534
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When I said neither can win their own ball I was referring to Mahony and Shanahan and not Mullane and Walsh which in fairness is what it looked like.

I rate Fives too, Im just of the opinion that he wont develop into a "top" intercounty player. Im not talking about a team that can compete, Im talking about a team that can win an All Ireland. I acknowledge that a lot of the current younger players could develop but I just don't think they have it in them to develop into really top players. I'm talking about Ken and Tony quality here. Of course I hope I'm wrong.
Ken and Tony are two of the top hurlers in the past 20 years. Nicky English says Ken is the best since he started playing, and Tony is a phenomenon.

What we need is a team of very good players with some just being good players.

I don't consider us to have really challenged for an all-ireland really since 2007. Even then, we never even took on the eventual winners, but any games since against the best or 2 best teams we were never in danger of winning.

The only teams challenging for the All-Ireland this year now are Galway, Tipp and Kilkenny. Cork won't win it. They may beat Galway, and they may keep it 'competitive' against whoever wins the other semi, but they won't beat them.

I would agree with Blue Blaa. We have an outside chance of being a team that can challenge next year and the year after. We need to improve and not be hampered by players retiring or leaving the panel for whatever reason, and we need the young players that are there to improve.

I believe practically all of those young players that started v Cork will improve. I also believe Gavin O'Brien will, though time will tell whether it's enough in one year to be able to be a starter for Waterford, but he certainly has a role to play next year.

We also need one or two more players to come through to strengthen the bench and the starting team.

As Blue Blaa said, an outside chance, but with that in mind saying we'll fall off the face of the earth is a bit rash.

You sure that I said that ??????
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01-08-2012, 21:08   #4535
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You sure that I said that ??????
My apologies
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01-08-2012, 22:28   #4536
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Lads can we stop talkin about Kerry 93, lol...... The darkest of days lol

There was far worse days in the 80's.
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01-08-2012, 23:00   #4537
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There was far worse days in the 80's.
Munster final of '82
Then when you think times cant be as bad Munster final of '83

I may aswell have been at them ive heard of their horrors so much!
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02-08-2012, 09:42   #4538
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Munster final of '82
Then when you think times cant be as bad Munster final of '83

I may aswell have been at them ive heard of their horrors so much!

I take it that you are a young person. In the mid 1980's things got a lot worse after that and we played Division Three of the NAtional League, but keep that quiet and played the likes of Roscommon and Mayo, real super powers in the world of hurling. I wont tell you the results of these games.
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02-08-2012, 13:38   #4539
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[QUOTE=Black Suir;80032563]I take it that you are a young person. In the mid 1980's things got a lot worse after that and we played Division Three of the NAtional League, but keep that quiet and played the likes of Roscommon and Mayo, real super powers in the world of hurling. I wont tell you the results of these games.[

Mayo beat us in division 3 who will ever forget that but after all those bad years we got to a Munster Final in '89.
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02-08-2012, 13:42   #4540
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[QUOTE=mccarthy37;80036866]
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I take it that you are a young person. In the mid 1980's things got a lot worse after that and we played Division Three of the NAtional League, but keep that quiet and played the likes of Roscommon and Mayo, real super powers in the world of hurling. I wont tell you the results of these games.[

Mayo beat us in division 3 who will ever forget that but after all those bad years we got to a Munster Final in '89.
That didnt exactly go well though!
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02-08-2012, 16:09   #4541
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[QUOTE=mccarthy37;80036866]

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That didnt exactly go well though!
Must have been the Pairc Uí Chaoimh hoodoo
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02-08-2012, 16:29   #4542
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As bad as it must have been to be in Division 3 of the league, I still think losing to Kerry in the championship was worse. The league was even less serious then than it is now. After the u21s winning the all-ireland the year before, that loss must have sucked the life back out of everyone who'd dared to hope in '92.
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02-08-2012, 16:47   #4543
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Jeez lads, can we knock off on the self-flagellation about days gone past, I have enough days I wish were not imprinted in memory, and those were during the glory years of the last decade

All in all, Waterford hurling is in a decent enough place, and far from the basketcase days of the past. I think what we need now is to simply roll up our sleeves as a hurling county, and get on with it. I would hope that Michael Walsh's blueprint for Waterford hurling is not gathering dust somewhere, as plenty of good honest work, and the right structures in which to frame and facilitate it, are just what is needed now.

The good of Waterford hurling at all levels is what is needed now, and putting pride and egos aside, would think the following are some of the key areas I would like to see us focus on:
  • Competitive structures at all level, and ones that allow the game to prosper at all levels, not just in the confines of a specific grade. Director of hurling perhaps? (voluntary position, of course)
  • Promotion of the club game from its position as poor cousin to the county game. A healthy club hurling scene with regular, scheduled games, are part of the bedrock of a healthy hurling eco-system
  • Root and branch evaluation on what is going wrong for us at underage grades
  • Proper attention and focus on solutions to our financial issues. Seperate fundraising arm of the county board, populated with proper fundraising and business acumen, would be a big step in the right direction. Such expertise would obviously extend to the promotion of our games too.
  • Trawl of the county for forward talent, particularly ball winning forwards, as well as the appointment of a coach specifically to focus on our forwards play and development.
  • Everyone to get off Michael Ryan's back. He has started to get things moving in the right direction again, and he and his team should be given all our support.
  • Vision for what is needed to address our inadequate situation with grounds.

I am sure this does not cover all the good work needed, and many have been mentioned before, but think what we need now is vision. Vision to take into account all the key elements, and drive us on collectively as a county.

Up the Déise!
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02-08-2012, 16:52   #4544
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Can we also burn the current county board to the ground.
With pitchforks and burning stakes. Maybe some ritual dancing?
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02-08-2012, 17:19   #4545
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Can we also burn the current county board to the ground.
With pitchforks and burning stakes. Maybe some ritual dancing?
Burn it down and it will be the exact same when comes back from embers! Need to change the system first.
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