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29-07-2012, 09:25   #4426
Jelle1880
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'Journalist', that's a good one.

Spiers is an idiot, and that's putting it lightly.

Doncaster never wanted to keep Rangers in the SPL to help us, he wanted us in the SPL but cripple us so that they could at least keep the cash we brought in.

Which is the exact same reason why they're now still trying to get money from showing Rangers matches on TV.

Regan said that Rangers would simply not be allowed to remain in the SPL and that he would veto us staying in it, and the attempts to shoehorn us into Div1 were motivated by money.

McCoist simply said there was hostility to Rangers from the SPL (Petrie's antagonism is surely common knowledge by now) and that Regan and Doncaster weren't up to the job. Hardly earth-shattering.

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29-07-2012, 09:42   #4427
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They are all pals of Ally which is why he has been allowed to get away with some absolute ridiculous comments up to now. This is the type of sycophancy which has been the downfall of the media in Scotland. Look at how they fawned over Murray when he was internally destroying Rangers FC.

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You can't rewrite history Ally- Hugh Keevins

THERE would be something wrong with Ally McCoist as a person if he wasn't hurting over Rangers.

The thing he loves most outside of his own family has been held up to public criticism and official reproach for the past six months.

But is the strain now showing 
through in his statement accusing the 
game's governing bodies of lacking 
moral integrity?

Rangers will today begin the first day of the rest of their lives with a new 
name, a different owner and years of 
rehabilitation ahead of them.

Ally has had to be the spokesman for the cause because he is the only credible custodian of the club in the eyes of the fans who have yet to accept that Charles Green is the man rightfully at the helm inside Ibrox.

But the Ibrox manager needs to retain a sense of balance when it concerns the issue of how Rangers have been treated by the SFA and the SPL.

McCoist says that Rangers have 
been badly mismanaged for the last 10 months.

Yet he omits to mention former 
owner Craig Whyte by name and 
conveniently airbrushes his predecessor Sir David Murray from the oldco's 
history at the same time.

That will be the same Sir David who said he would only pass Rangers on to someone with the club's best interests at heart - then claimed to have been duped by Whyte after it emerged he'd sold the club into disgrace.

This refusal to implicate Murray 
overlooks debts of £134million that 
were run up before the road to liquidation was undertaken.

And it fails to take EBTs and problems arising from alleged dual contracts into account at the same time.

The scatter-gun statement accuses the ruling bodies of lacking moral 
integrity - but they allowed Ally to 
sit in on the business meetings at 
Rangers' request.

And that showed they were trying to be just by taking into account his unique situation as a football boss required to immerse himself in business matters.

Ally also got it wrong when he asks why the club has had the prize money 
for finishing second in the SPL last 
season withheld by the beaks.

That betrays a failure to take into account the fact they owed other 
clubs money for players bought to 
strengthen Rangers.

And, incidentally, it dismisses Rangers' failure to hold on to a 15-point lead in the title race that was eventually won by a resurgent Celtic.

Hibs' chairman Rod Petrie also 
gets it in the neck from Ally for being 
part of an SFA hierarchy that has 
apparently lacked leadership.

But Petrie, for all his faults, was only involved in Rangers' case because SFA president Campbell Ogilvie was unable to compromise discussions, having been Ibrox secretary during a period when the club are accused of wrongdoing relating to players' contracts.

I expect Stewart Regan, the SFA's chief executive, will let the dust settle on 
Ally's outburst then explain matters 
from his perspective.

The last thing the game needs today is a slanging match to kick off The Rangers' introduction to Scottish football via 
Brechin City and the Ramsdens Cup.

Where Ally struck a chord was when he suggested the late SFA secretary Ernie Walker would have relished the prospect of immersing himself in all that's 
happened in recent months and brought a down-to-earth man's interpretation of the rules to bear.

This was the man I remember 
becoming embroiled in an argument over which anthem best suited the national team.

Ernie closed the debate by saying: 
"They can play She'll Be Coming Round The F*****g Mountain for all I care, so long as we win."

But would Ally have accepted a 
similarly-robust judgement from Ernie on Rangers any more than anybody else's if it didn't suit him? Only if there was an admission of fault in the first place. The manager's statement appears to 
pander to the fans while overlooking inconvenient truths.

The manager should also understand one great irony of his club's situation.

If Green does his job properly the 
Rangers newco will one day emerge in the SPL in a debt-free state.

Their greatest rivals, Celtic, will in all probability have accumulated greater debt in the meantime.

That's why Hoops chief executive Peter Lawwell was reduced to sending out what amounted to a begging letter to fans, asking them to buy season tickets in 
sufficient number to compensate for the loss of Rangers from the SPL.

Celtic did what they felt was right 
for the game by refusing to vote for the newco's admittance to the SPL, but the 
certainty is principle will cost them in the end.

Rangers should go to Brechin today intent on rebuilding the club's image.

The job of rebranding would be best served by accepting the consequences of previous mismanagement.

McCoist remains one of my favourite people in the game.

But if you can't tell a friend when he's wrong then you're not much of a pal
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29-07-2012, 09:54   #4428
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'Pals of Ally', are you serious ?
They may claim so, but that doesn't make it true.

For starters, McCoist never complained about stuff like the points deduction, no European football,... despite what Spiers says.

McCoist complained about constant haggling over TV money from those who preached about 'sporting integrity'.

He also said Regan and Doncaster haven't shown any leadership qualities, which I'm sure you'll agree with.

Deliberately twisting his words sounds like they're trying to close down any semblance of a defence from Rangers.

Delahunt's article is even worse it seems, missing the point on more occasions than Spiers.

And that's some achievement.

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31-07-2012, 15:05   #4429
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It should be their and not they're by the way. I blame the schools
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26-08-2012, 11:50   #4430
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For anyone wondering how it got to where it did, this might answer some questions.


http://scottishfootballmonitor.wordpress.com/2012/08/26/the-rangers-saga-as-it-happened/

The Rangers saga as it happened…

August 26, 2012 by stevensanph 57 Comments

The last 12 months has seen a lot of water pass under the bridge. For a newcomer it is very hard to see past what the MSM are currently printing – I hope this article will go someway to rectifying that, and allow those who didn’t follow this story from the start to get a basic understanding of the views that have been formed on Rangerstaxcase.com and on TSFM. Further, I hope it refreshes the memories of those of us who have followed the saga since the early days and focuses our attention on asking key questions that remain unasked or unanswered. I have provided links where possible throughout the time line. I have also highlighted in red where the story seems to end, a question remains unasked, or no answer has been forthcoming. I may also have missed some critical points – feel free to mention these and we can add as we go. The Rangers Saga as it happened… June 2001: Christian Nerlinger joins Rangers. Little be known to the rest of Scottish football he will be the first player paid by an EBT (an Employee Benefit Trust) which will later be declared illegal (as administered by Rangers) by HMRC. Summer 2004: Jean Alain Boumsong rejects English Premier League sides to sign for Rangers on a free transfer. Six months later he is sold (January of 2005) to Newcastle in an 8million deal . This deal is later investigated by the City of London police who raided Newcastle and Rangers in June 2007. A later report from Lord Steven remarked:

“There remains inconsistencies in evidence provided by Graeme Souness – a former manager of the club – and Freddy Shepherd – apparently acting in an undefined role but not as a club official – as to their respective roles in transfer negotiations.”

April 2010: HMRC hit Rangers with a tax bill of 24m before penalties for non payment of taxes on monies remitted to players and staff via the EBT scheme. 27th March 2011: A new blog appears on wordpress named ‘Rangerstaxcase.com’. Little did we know the impact it will have on Scottish Football. 6th of May 2011: Craig Whyte buys Rangers FC PLC for 1gbp from David Murray, with his holding company Wavetower taking over 85% of the Football club. Mid-May 2011: Craig Whyte renames Wavetower to the ‘Rangers Football Group Ltd’, the holding company for Rangers FC PLC. He immediately claims he has cleared the Rangers debt to Lloyds Bank and is ready to invest in the team. He quickly removes Alastair Johnston and Paul Murray from the Board and suspends Martin Bain and Donald McIntyre. 5th June 2011: RTC uncovers a MG05 document filed at Companies House showing that Rangers have assigned 4 years of season ticket sales to another company. This is later denied by Craig Whyte, but later on turns out to be the mechanism by which Whyte funded the takeover. 19th June 2011: Craig Whyte is asked about the RTC blog, remarking:

“I’m aware of a website that has dedicated itself to talking about our tax case, I’ve looked at it. What they’re saying is 99 per cent crap”

August 2011: Rangers are knocked out of Europe by Maribor. A seemingly irrelevant event, but one that leaves a £15m hole in Craig Whytes budget. One that he meets by not paying the tax man. RTC questions in October where this money was coming from… October 2011: In the first mainstream feature on the case, the BBC air a documentary proving that Craig Whyte had been banned from holding a director position in UK companies for 7 years for ‘putting assets out of the reach of creditors’. BBC are banned from Ibrox and Whyte claims he will sue the BBC for presenting false evidence - but later admits that he was disqualified. Rather amusingly he admits this the same day he reveals Rangers have reduced their debt to 14m…. (they hadn’t) The SFA stay silent on the matter and the writ received by the BBC in February 2012 has since vanished. 30th November 2011: Rangers PLC release un-audited accounts for the year 2010/2011 revealing profits of 2 million pounds and NET Assets of 76m. The accounts are NOT signed by an auditor leading to rumors all is not well in Ibrox. January 2012: RTC explains in detail Succulent Lamb Journalism… the phrase becomes a defining point of the story, along with ‘internet bampots’, coined by Hugh Keevins. 18th January 2012: The ‘Big tax case’ concludes. We still await the findings… 13th February: Rangers file papers at the Court of Session giving notice of their intention to enter administration within 7 days… 14th February: HMRC petition the CoS to allow them to appoint administrators. After a short hearing, HMRC withdraw the motion and Rangers PLC promptly appoints the now infamous Duff & Phelps as administrators. On Valentines eve, Craig Whyte stands on the steps of Ibrox and announces to the angry mob the unthinkable… Rangers FC PLC is now in administration. That evening it is confirmed that HMRC had pushed for administration over £9 million in unpaid VAT, PAYE and NI since the Whyte takeover. This later rises to 18m. 99% what Craig? 15th February 2012: The SPL immediately deduct Rangers (IA) 10 points for entering administration, as per league rules. Possibly the last time they follow their own rules throughout this saga. Bizarrely, Rangers (IA) push ahead with the proposed signing of Daniel Cousin on wages of 7500GBP/week. The SFA make no comment, despite this being against the rules for a club in administration. David Murray, in typical fashion, professes surprise at events which RTC warned about 12 months earlier while Murray was still in charge. Murray also says:

“Firstly, there has been no decision, and there is no present indication as to the timing of a decision, from the first-tier tax tribunal concerning the potential claim from HMRC of £36.5m excluding interest and penalties. “Secondly, legal opinion on the strength of the club’s case remains favorable.”

21st February: Daily Mail confirm what RTC told us last year, by confirming that Ticketus bought 100,000 season tickets at Ibrox over the next 4 years. It was this money that Whyte used to buy the club. Rangers fans are up in arms. Even though they ignored the warnings a year earlier. The SFA announce that Lord Nimmo Smith will chair an inquiry into the circumstances leading to administration. 25th February 2012: The Sun on Sunday launches by printing what they claim is a ‘side letter’ given to Rangers players. A financial expert tells them:

“Number one, you are going to get £122,000 and number two you get £1,200 for a first-team game. “It equates to salary as far as I am concerned. I would say this sort of letter will be a central thread in the big tax case.

RTC will later confirm they are correct. 27th February 2012: The SFA confirm they will start an investigation into these ‘side letters’ 3rd March 2012: D&P admit Rangers have no chance of making Europe next season, as they admit audited accounts by the 31st of March would be almost impossible. However, in a baffling move, one month later D&P reveal they are ‘appealing’ the decision to ban Rangers from Europe. UEFA respond by saying

“Licence applicants must demonstrate that as at March 31, 2012, they have no payables overdue towards their employees or social/tax authorities as a result of contractual/legal obligations to their employees that arose prior to December 31, 2011.”

8th March 2012: Lord Nimmo Smith forwards his report to the SFA Judicial Panel. The report contains prima facie evidence that Craig Whyte was not a ‘fit and proper person’. A hearing is set for the 29th of March. This is later postponed at the request of Whyte. The full Nimmo Smith report has still not been released by the SFA. 9th March 2012: With no redundancies in sight, Rangers players agree to pay cuts, ranging from 75 – 25%. It is later revealed that these are not ‘pay cuts’, but pay deferments which must be repaid in the summer, otherwise Rangers will be in breach of contract. No info is forthcoming in the summer on whether this was paid or not. 5th April 2012: D&P reveal in their first creditors report that Rangers debts could top 134m, with HMRC claiming 93m of the total. The report also details debts to football creditors of around 2.3m. It also details debts of hundreds of creditors, such as that for Susie Thomson – a face-painter from Glasgow owed 40quid. These were the real human losers in this story. Interestingly, assets are valued at 116m, as per the 2011 accounts. 23rd April 2012: The SFA’s independent panel finds Rangers (IA) guilty of 5 different breaches of SFA rules relating to disrupte charges and are handed a 160,000GBP fine, the maximum available and a 12 month transfer embargo. The judicial panel state that the offenses committed by Rangers were only one step “lower than match fixing”, and reveal that they considered the punishment of suspension of license or expulsion from the SFA. They determine a fine would not be enough given the seriousness of the charges and thus impose a transfer embargo. In the judgement, the panel make reference to evidence given by the Rangers Financial Controller who said invoices to Ticketus were such that they ” appeared as though Clip Art computer processes had been involved in their creation.” The FC tells the panel he had never seen them. 24th April 2012: The uproar from Ibrox is loud, with the Bears taking their anger out on the SFA. McCoist makes a rallying call, demanding to know “who these people are”. He admits the next day he knew all along who ‘these people are.’ As a result, a poor director at Raith Rovers takes his family into protective police custody, and Raith are forced to hire round the clock security after arson threats to their ground. Finally, in August 2012, McCoist is charged by the SFA for his remarks. He has decided to challenge the charge and the case is ongoing. Rangers blame the SFA for not stopping Whyte earlier, despite warnings before he took over from RTC.

“Why did the SFA not investigate when they said they had suspicions before Christmas rather than wait until the club went into administration?

9th May 2012: American tycoon Bill Miller walks away from a proposed offer for Rangers (IA) after being subjected to threats from the Ibrox crowd and discovering a “30 million black hole” in the Rangers accounts. 11th May 2012: Rangers reveal they will appeal the transfer embargo and fine imposed. The SFA inexplicably name the 3 man panel that will oversee the decision, going against SFA rules agreed by ALL clubs, including Rangers (IA). 13th May 2012: Reports suggest Charles Green, backed by a global consortium (still unknown!) has bought shares from Craig Whyte for 2quid. He is given an exclusivity period to propose a CVA worth 8.5m. 17th May 2012: SFA uphold the transfer embargo against Rangers (IA) . The SFA state that it was “proportionate to the breach, dissuasive to others and effective in the context of serious misconduct, bringing the game into disrepute.” The Rangers Fighting Fund along with D&P announces they are paying a lawyer to challenge the SFA in the Court of Session. SFA say nothing. 22nd May 2012: It is now May, 3 months since the SFA/SPL announced an investigation into side letters and unauthorized payments to players from Rangers FC. RTC once again provides evidence of a ‘prima facie’ case by revealing details of Christian Nerlinger’s EBT letters. 23rd May 2012: BBC air a damning documentary revealing details of EBT payments and side letters to Rangers players since 2001. They also uncover emails showing that D&P’s David Grier seemed to have prior knowledge of the Ticketus deal. D&P and Craig Whyte threaten legal action, but none is forthcoming. The BBC also hint at payments made to managers not employed by Rangers at the time, including Graeme Souness. 29th of May 2012: D&P reveal their ‘CVA’ proposal. One that was doomed to fail, offering creditors little or nothing. It also revealed if it was rejected then the ‘assets’ would automatically be sold to Charles Green and Sevco 5088 for just 5.5m (the ‘new’ value of the assets. No evidence has yet been presented on how these ‘assets’ were valued.) On the same day (seeing the pattern of bad news being overshadowed by good news yet?) Rangers ‘win’ at the Court of Session, with the court ruling that the SFA had no powers to give a transfer ban. They decide to refer the decision back to the SFA judicial panel to decide on a new punishment. Lawyer Gregory Ioannidis remarks:

“If the Scottish Football Association decides to not take action against Rangers, in relation to Rangers submitting the application to the Court of Session, then Fifa can actually penalise the SFA, and the individual club, and the national team of Scotland, and impose an international ban on all of them.”

No action is ever taken by the SFA or FIFA. 12th June 2012: HMRC release a statement saying that they will reject the CVA. Given that they have over 25% of the debt, it makes the creditors meeting scheduled for the 14th irrelevant.

“A CVA would restrict the scope of such action. Moreover, the liquidation route does not prejudice the proposed sale of the club. This sale can take place either through a CVA or a liquidation, so the sale is not being undermined, it simply takes a different route. “Liquidation will enable a sale of the football assets to be made to a new company, thereby ensuring that football will continue at Ibrox. It also means that the new company will be free from claims or litigation in a way which would not be achievable with a CVA. “Rangers can make a fresh start.”

14th June 2012: The CVA is formally rejected. D&P immediately sell the assets to Sevco 5088 Ltd and Rangers FC PLC (IA) cease to operate as a football club. The assets are later assigned to Sevco Scotland Ltd. SPL rules state that a club that ceases to function as a football club should immediately relinquish its share and membership. This does not happen. 15th June 2012: Ian Hart denies being part of the Green consortium buying the Rangers assets. Green had earlier named him when pushed to name his backers So starts the misinformation campaign from Sevco. 17th June 2012: Rangers FC are excluded from the fixture list for the forthcoming SPL season, replaced instead by ‘Club 12’. It is widely reported, that if Sevco Scotland are refused a place in the SPL, then Club 12 will be Dundee. The SPL give no reasons why. 17th – 27th June 2012: Walter Smith, Allan Stewart and Stephen McKenna, and then John Brown all turn up in the papers making ‘bids’ for the assets which Green has already bought. 22nd June 2012 – Lord Hodge seeks report from D & P re: a potential “conflict of interest”, after information given to him by the BBC. 25th June 2012: The BBC reveal that Sevco Scotland will not be granted admission to the SPL, after 6 clubs publicly declare their opposition, after season ticket sales fail to materialize as fans make their views known. 27th June 2012: John Brown stands on the steps of Ibrox and pleads with Rangers fans not to buy season tickets until Green reveals who are his backers and who owns Ibrox. This question remains unanswered. Brown is now silent. 4th July 2012: Despite weeks of pressure from the SFA, SPL and MSM, the SPL clubs reject the application from Sevco Scotland to join the SPL. Stewart Regan warns of Armageddon for Scottish Football if Sevco are not admitted to SFL1 instead. We are still waiting. 5th July 2012: Stenhousemuir reveal details of a talk given to them by Neil Doncaster and Stewart Regan, where SFL clubs are threatened with bankruptcy if they don’t vote Sevco Scotland into Division 1. Figures presented are ridiculed by the internet bampots. Clyde and Raith Rovers emerge as the cheerleaders for sporting integrity in the lower leagues, with both clubs openly speaking out against what they describe as “irresponsible”. Raith Chairman Turnbull Hutton suggests the SFL clubs send their mascots to vote on the proposal for Sevco to enter SFL1. 9th July 2012: the SFA refuse international clearance for players who decided to leave Rangers (IA) when the assets were sold, as were their rights under the TUPE laws. This decision has yet to be explained, and is contrary to legal advice. 13th July 2012: Expiry of deadline for submission of report on D&P conflict of interest. News suggests that Lord Hodge is on holiday. No news has been heard since and the administration continues… 13th July 2012: Sevco Scotland are allowed to start life in the 3rd division, subject to gaining an SFA licence, after SFL clubs vote to reject the proposal to allow Sevco Scotland into the 1st division. There is no sign of Armageddon. 15th July 2012: FIFA write to the SFA asking for reasons why former Rangers IA players are having their registration transfer blocked. The players claim their free agents and have rejected the TUPE arrangements with Green’s new club. As of August Allan McGregor’s move to Turkey is still onhold as they wait on international clearance. We await an answer, as we suspect FIFA do to. 24th July 2012: Ian Black signs a 3 year deal with Sevco Scotland. It is unclear how he is registered or who he is contracted to. 9pm, 27th July 2012: Just 48 hours before the first scheduled match for Sevco Scotland the SFA grant an unheard of ‘conditional’ membership to Sevco Scotland. It is reported that Sevco Scotland have agreed to a 12 month transfer embargo, starting on the 1st of September 2012. They also agree to pay all football debts of Rangers (IA). Sevco, playing in strips of Rangers (IA) defeat Brechin City in extra time to record their first ever victory. Ian Black plays as a trialist, despite signing a contract with Sevco Scotland earlier in the week. It is further unclear whether players are registered to Rangers IA or Sevco Scotland, and if the former, how? 31st July 2012: At an EGM of Rangers FC PLC (IA) the directors change the company name to Rangers 2012 (IA). At the same time Sevco Scotland pass a resolution to change their name to ‘The Rangers FC Ltd’. Companies house data shows that Charles Green owns more than 10% of The Rangers FC Ltd, despite his claims that no one person would own more than this. No one from the MSM thinks to ask this question. 3rd August 2012: The Rangers FC Ltd are granted full SFA membership, after having the membership of Rangers 2012 (IA) transferred to them. Under what rules this was possible is not clear. ESPN follow SKY in agreeing a new deal with the SPL for TV rights. No sign of Armageddon yet. 15th August 2012: Dundee Utd in a short statement reveal that they have not been paid by Sevco/TRFC for the unpaid debt relating to last season’s Scottish Cup with Rangers (IA). Despite an agreement with the SFA to pay these debts, Charles Green blames the SPL for going back on a agreement made in May to pay this out of money owed to Rangers (IA). Dundee Utd, and other European clubs remain unpaid, as does the poor face painter from Glasgow. It is unclear how the ‘conditional’ membership works if the ‘conditions’ have not been met. STV further report that SPL clubs still do not know how much TV cash they are going to get from the new SPL SKY deal. The SPL make no comment. 17th August 2012: Lord Nimmo Smith is appointed to chair an independent commission into Rangers (IA) making undeclared payments to players from 2001 onwards. They are unlikely to sit before October. 22nd August 2012: ‘The Rangers’ announce they have signed a joint venture with Sports Direct for the merchandising rights. Companies House shows that the new company, ‘Rangers Retail’, is owned 100% by SportsDirect.com 23rd August 2012: There is still no word on who are the investors in Sevco Scotland. The SFA have not released any details to explain how Green passed the fit and proper person test. No details of proof that Sevco Scotland have the finances to last the season. The question of where are Ticketus is silent. Lord Hodge has still not returned his findings on a conflict of interest in the appointment of D&P. The FTT result is still awaited, just like BDO await the liquidation of Rangers 2012 PLC. Meanwhile, Stewart Regan resurfaces to announce details of league reorganization in time for next season, reducing Scotland to 3 leagues from 4. Oh… and there is still no signs of Armageddon. —-“StevensanPH is an exiled St.Johnstone fan living in the Philippines – he runs the SaintinAsia blog writing about all aspects of Scottish Football. Thankfully the MSM don’t sell papers in the Philippines…”
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26-08-2012, 11:53   #4431
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Why do you feel the need to keep posting stuff we already know about
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26-08-2012, 16:12   #4432
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Sorry, I thought it said 'for anyone wondering how it got here', ie the people who don't know. Don't you still have anyone asking what happened? I know I do
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20-11-2012, 15:37   #4433
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Apparently a statement is imminent regarding the tax case..
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20-11-2012, 15:39   #4434
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Quote:
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Apparently a statement is imminent regarding the tax case..
How imminent? Hours, days or weeks?
It seems to have been forgot about in recent months. Do you have a source?
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20-11-2012, 15:46   #4435
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savage Tyrant View Post
How imminent? Hours, days or weeks?
It seems to have been forgot about in recent months. Do you have a source?
Journalists had been reporting (On twitter) that Rangers had "Won" the BTC - They have since deleted the tweets...
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20-11-2012, 15:47   #4436
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savage Tyrant View Post
How imminent? Hours, days or weeks?
It seems to have been forgot about in recent months. Do you have a source?
http://www.financeandtaxtribunals.go...51/TC02372.pdf
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20-11-2012, 15:48   #4437
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Journalists had been reporting (On twitter) that Rangers had "Won" the BTC - They have since deleted the tweets...
Daily Record journo's?
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20-11-2012, 15:48   #4438
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Can some intelligent person have a read through that and provide an idiots guide for me?
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20-11-2012, 15:54   #4439
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James Cook ‏@BBCJamesCook
By majority decision, the liquidated Rangers have won their tribunal appeal against a multi-million pound tax bill.

And then you have other journo's saying it's not decided yet.

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20-11-2012, 15:58   #4440
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I don't quite know what to make of this....
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